Why NOT to take TEST in every cycle

[Whoisdaman]

Doesn't test increase protein synthesis. I understand you have the option to opt out of using test in your cycle, but why? It's just so effective. I agree to disagree.

[Mesomorphyl]

Testosterone , principal androgen, or male sex hormone. One of the group of compounds known as anabolic steroids , testosterone is secreted by the testes but is also synthesized in small quantities in the ovaries, cortices of the adrenal glands, and placenta, usually from cholesterol. Testosterone is necessary in the fetus for the development of male external genitalia; increased levels of testosterone at puberty are responsible for further growth of male genitalia and for the development and maintenance of male secondary sex characteristics such as facial hair and voice changes. Testosterone also stimulates protein synthesis and accounts for the greater muscular development of the male (see metabolism). For many years, synthetic steroids similar to testosterone have been used by athletes with the goal of improving performance, although recent medical research has shown that these drugs may have a wide range of harmful side effects.

When does it decline?
Testosterone begins to decline in men at about age 25. Testosterone has a number of effects on muscles, bones, the central nervous system, and bone marrow, the prostate and sexual function. Androgens, especially testosterone, regulate the normal growth and development of male sex organs and promote other male characteristics, such as body hair, muscle mass and a deep voice. The most common type of treatment for testosterone deficiency is known as testosterone replacement therapy.
Men who receive testosterone replacement consequently report that they feel sexier, stronger and healthier. They state that it makes them feel as they did when they were in their prime. After all, this is what replenishment of hormones is all about. It is about restoring hormones to youthful levels so you can feel as you did when you were at the peak of your physical and mental ability. Testosterone can stop and reverse the physical decline that robs men of their energy, strength and libido. Testosterone can restore muscle tone and improve stamina. Testosterone can restore healthy sexual excitement and desire, which in turn, results in an improvement in mood and overall well being.

Testosterone is responsible for the sex drive for both men and women. As testosterone diminishes with age, so does the sexual functioning in both men and women. Restoring testosterone to youthful levels in both men and women can reverse the situation. All too often, men and women automatically assume that as they age, their sexual capacity will diminish. There is no need to accept this loss of sexuality. Testosterone can play a critical role in helping to preserve and even restore sexual function so that we can live our extended life span with the same excitement and enthusiasm we enjoyed during our youth.

Physicians are witnessing an explosion of interest in testosterone as a result of our growing realization that testosterone levels decline with age and that many men suffer serious consequences to their physical and mental health as a result. In women, it is expressed as menopause, whereas, in men, it is expressed as andropause . Many of these symptoms and disease processes that we come to accept as normal aging are processes that are actually secondary to low testosterone levels and are easily correctable. Testosterone supplementation results in increased muscle strength, muscle size, increased energy level, decreased fat and increased desire and endurance for exercise. Now both men and women may be treated for their sex hormone deficiencies.

Testosterone replacement in the past has been associated with increased cholesterol levels. We feel this is probably secondary to the use of synthetic testosterone that resulted in liver dysfunction and the concomitant elevation of cholesterol. Studies now show that replenished with natural testosterone results in a decreased cholesterol and increased HDL, similar to what has been realized in women taking estrogen.

Clearly, testosterone is shown to have a positive impact on our health and well being, our moods and our ability to learn and retain information.

Testosterone has a number of effects on muscles, bones, the central nervous system, and bone marrow, the prostate and sexual function. Androgens, especially testosterone, regulate the normal growth and development of male sex organs and promote other male characteristics, such as body hair, muscle mass and a deep voice.

Testosterone Deficiency
In men, is a condition in which the testes produce a less than normal amount of testosterone, the male hormone. When too little testosterone is present, men tend to undergo a drop in sexual desire and performance. They may also experience depression, fatigue, loss of motivation and osteoporosis. The size and strength of their muscles may diminish and their body hair may become sparse.

[hemidog66]

I want to see some pics of this fvckhead. and not of his gym buddie

[RussianVodka]

Testosterone is a base for each cycle!!! I never had problems with it.

[Mighty Joe]

test Prop for me.....Thank you!

[TRICK]

hey meso, it might be time to change your location again!

[TheMindOfRoss]

SOME of you are MISUNDERSTANDING. TEST IS KING. TEST IS A GREAT BASE. IT SHOULD NOT, HOWEVER, BE THE BASE OF EEVVEERRY CYCLE.

Test has it's place. but NOT in EVERY CYCLE. Pics are comin....I have a camera phone so I'll post some.

I am not arguing the EFFECTIVENESS of TEST as a stand-alone or a BASE. I am simply saying there are OTHER OPTIONS.

Be open-minded.

[TheMindOfRoss]

And by the way...Why am I a "Fvck Head" or a "Jerk off" because I present some unpopular views. I am being nice. I am ACTUALLY trying to HELP YOU. Let's just say you tried one of my cycles and YOU WERE VERY HAPPY--would I still be a "fvck head"? Not to mention, you have NEVER tried these methods so you have NO PLACE to judge them as incorrect or ineffective. Furthermore, let us all grow up. We should be DISCUSSING these VERY IMPORTANT issues. This is not a popularity contest.

[niXon)(]

SOME of you are MISUNDERSTANDING. TEST IS KING. TEST IS A GREAT BASE. IT SHOULD NOT, HOWEVER, BE THE BASE OF EEVVEERRY CYCLE.

Test has it's place. but NOT in EVERY CYCLE. Pics are comin....I have a camera phone so I'll post some.

I am not arguing the EFFECTIVENESS of TEST as a stand-alone or a BASE. I am simply saying there are OTHER OPTIONS.

Be open-minded.

No sh!t there are other options meat head

[TheMindOfRoss]

This board is hopeless...lol..

[niXon)(]

give or take any roid is going to get you big/shredded/bulky. The fact is we put test in as a base because it is a smart thing to do.. almost every thing you have stated has been said in the past. oral only cycles are good/okay, but adding test will make the gains better and with less sides.

And this thing about keeping gains are hard on test only cycle is sh!t, propper PCT/rest/training you can keep every damned pound.

[TheMindOfRoss]

give or take any roid is going to get you big/shredded/bulky. The fact is we put test in as a base because it is a smart thing to do.. almost every thing you have stated has been said in the past. oral only cycles are good/okay, but adding test will make the gains better and with less sides.

And this thing about keeping gains are hard on test only cycle is sh!t, propper PCT/rest/training you can keep every damned pound.

Not true sir. Maintaining testosterone gains are clinically proven to be more difficult, due to the fact that it supresses endogenous testosterone production FAR more than anabolics liek Oxandrolone, Primobolan , Dianabol , and EQ. There is actually a study between Test Enanthate and Oxandrolone, their effects on body composition, and ability to maintain gains 6 months after cessation.

Furthermore, anecdotal evidence on THIS board indicates it is indeed very hard to keep testosterone deriven muscle aquisition.

[marlin444]

you guys are just haters cause your doing rediculous amounts of juice and not getting/keeping rediculous amounts. steriod muscle is neer imposible to keep in the long run. your body will always find its way back to homeostasis. the oral only cycle i dunno about, but the reason im interested in doing short cycles, is because it takes about 4-8 weeks for your natural test to shut down.

heres the way i see it. you start a cycle, your gunna gain 5-10 pounds of water. in 6 weeks, youll gain another 5 pounds of muscle maybe. now you come off and stay on creatine, you will have gained about 10-15 pounds. it makes perfect sense, and is totally fesable. especially seeing as recovery will be significantly easier.

stop flaming this guy he doesnt have to post here. didnt your mothers tell you "if you have nothing nice to say, then shut the fu(k up"

[Nikolaus777]

Yo! Ross arent you about 20 years old?

[niXon)(]

post the study, not like ill read it but just to see if you have it.

hard to keep gains, yeah, maybe. dedicate yourself to stick to your DIET/training/rest and you can keep all of them.

[niXon)(]

you guys are just haters cause your doing rediculous amounts of juice and not getting/keeping rediculous amounts. steriod muscle is neer imposible to keep in the long run. your body will always find its way back to homeostasis. the oral only cycle i dunno about, but the reason im interested in doing short cycles, is because it takes about 4-8 weeks for your natural test to shut down.

heres the way i see it. you start a cycle, your gunna gain 5-10 pounds of water. in 6 weeks, youll gain another 5 pounds of muscle maybe. now you come off and stay on creatine, you will have gained about 10-15 pounds. it makes perfect sense, and is totally fesable. especially seeing as recovery will be significantly easier.

stop flaming this guy he doesnt have to post here. didnt your mothers tell you "if you have nothing nice to say, then shut the fu(k up"

[smokethedays]

Viva Test

[TheMindOfRoss]

I am about to be 22 years old and I have graduated from Rutgers University with a BA in Physics. I am an independent scientist, making a relentless effort to dicover THE MOST EFFECTIVE ways to use these REMARKABLE compounds. You can choose to listen to my advices, and BENEFIT GREATLY, or you can write me off as a lunatic. Either way, I post here not because I HAVE to, but because I WANT TO. I want to help people reach their goals as I have reached mine....

I have been training since I am 15 years old, have always been heavily involved in athletics.

I have always been an ectomorph with a relatively thin bone structure. I was always able to be ripped, but AQUIRING MUSCLE MASS was difficult. I trained naturally until I was about 20 years old, peaking out at MY FRAME at 180lbs, about 6%BF.

In the almost 2 years of steroid experience I have, I have gained more than 40 PERMANENT lbs, with only increasing bodyfat minimally. I am now 210(as of TONIGHT) around 6-7% BF. I have tried and have EXPERIMENTED with others all different types of dosing and cycling methods. I have been left with ONLY WHAT WORKS BEST.

Like I said, I am only here to help.

[smokethedays]

you are a SCIENTIST?!!! i never heared of a scientist who realizes that he is or even say it. they are too crazy to realize such things

[TheMindOfRoss]

CONSIDERING I have GRADUATED with a DEGREE in PHYSICS--I have the right to call myself a SCIENTIST. Science is a METHOD--and a VERY EFFECTIVE ONE. I use this METHOD in order to discover new information about Anabolic steroids . Interesting...huh?

[longhorn814]

CONSIDERING I have GRADUATED with a DEGREE in PHYSICS--I have the right to call myself a SCIENTIST. Science is a METHOD--and a VERY EFFECTIVE ONE. I use this METHOD in order to discover new information about Anabolic steroids . Interesting...huh?

I am a scientist too, I have two advanced degress in geology and petroluem engineering. I like to see facts and studies too, You have been referencing all of these studies that say test gains are hard to keep, dbol only suppresses you 60%, etc. Why dont you post them? I'd like to read them

[Angel of death]

I dunno, this dude makes some points for sure. Why does everyone seem so close minded to talk about things? So what if hes disagreeing...hes not flaming anything. Hes stating his educated opinion and trying to help people. If people just can't have a friendly argument they shouldn't be on forums in the first place.

[IronAdam]

Ross, you've got some good points but you're gunna have to post actual information from studies that support your ideas to win anyone over.

Keep posting...I'm reading.

[dive_kid]

if there were studies I could see to back all this up I might reconsider.
But everything I have seen todate says otherwise.
so, post it up and prove us all wrong.

[TRICK]

= In the almost 2 years of steroid experience I have, I have gained more than 40 PERMANENT lbs, with only increasing bodyfat minimally. I am now 210(as of TONIGHT) around 6-7% BF.

whoa dude, you may be on to something! you were 205lbs on a post earlier today and you've gained 5 lbs since! sheeiit, you ARE tha man!

I am about to be 22 years old and I have graduated from Rutgers University with a BA in Physics. I am an independent scientist, making a relentless effort to dicover THE MOST EFFECTIVE ways to use these REMARKABLE compounds.

actually, i wish you good luck in your quest. thats the one thing thats missing from a.a.s. research, someone who is not biased against them. why don't YOU try a cycle with test and compare it against your oral cycle.
and then share your findings.

[spound]

Ross, you've got some good points but you're gunna have to post actual information from studies that support your ideas to win anyone over.

Keep posting...I'm reading.

I agree...if he would post any of these studies and they are in accordance with what he says, then I may try his methods out.

[TheMindOfRoss]

WHAT STUDIES are you asking for? Most of the information we have about AAS does not come from SCIENTIFIC LITERATURE, but rather anecdotal evidence. There are HOWEVER, studies demostrating that Oxandrolone, and Dianabol are far less supressive than TESTOSTERONE . Go onto PubMed.com and do some searching. Where are "THESE STUDIES" showing that ADDING SUPRAPHYSIOLGICAL levels of TESTOSTERONE to EACH AND EVERY cycle will enhance gains and recovery? LOL..cmon guys...give me a break.

I have also come to realize that due it it's low PRICE AND HIGH AVAILABILITY( not to mention the GREAT GAINS and GREAT FEELING), most people SIMPLY ENJOY using TEST. But what we WANT and what WE NEED are two completely different things.

I am glad some people possess an open-mind and are willing to try new things. Actually, this information is NOT NEW--IF ANYTHING, it is OLD! This is how ARNIE and the guys back in the day, who were CAUTIOUS about these unknown substances, juiced. Not like the guys today. I bet arnold used TEST as many times as he can count on 1 hand.

[TheMindOfRoss]

actually, i wish you good luck in your quest. thats the one thing thats missing from a.a.s. research, someone who is not biased against them. why don't YOU try a cycle with test and compare it against your oral cycle.
and then share your findings.

I HAVE DONE TEST CYCLES! THEY ARE GREAT! (This is not the issue)

[RA]

There you have it. The mind of Ross is officially empty. I am certain with your posts that there is not a Mrs. Ross.

[TheMindOfRoss]

There you have it. The mind of Ross is officially empty. I am certain with your posts that there is not a Mrs. Ross.

Nope....never just "A" mrs.....always a FEW, and always accepting applications.

[*Narkissos*]

you guys are just haters cause your doing rediculous amounts of juice and not getting/keeping rediculous amounts. steriod muscle is neer imposible to keep in the long run. your body will always find its way back to homeostasis. the oral only cycle i dunno about, but the reason im interested in doing short cycles, is because it takes about 4-8 weeks for your natural test to shut down.

In reply to the portion in bold... That is why long cycles are advisable... To 'raise the bar' of homeostasis. By running a non-hepatoxic compound for an extended period it is possible to reset the body's perception of normalcy...anyway, that's another debate in and of itself.

stop flaming this guy he doesnt have to post here. didnt your mothers tell you "if you have nothing nice to say, then shut the fu(k up"

I agree here...the flaming is overboard and out of place...though you are doing as bad a job in reciprocating


In response to the original poster. This would've been an open minded debate if you didn't dispense the perception that your opinion was the end all and be all of AAS administration.

~Narkissos

[RA]

Nope....never just "A" mrs.....always a FEW, and always accepting applications.

You know, you might just be ok if you stop trying to piss everyone off. You were one of those nerdy kids back in school and now you want to get back at all the "muscle heads" but we arent those guys. Chill and you will get further.

[TRICK]

I HAVE DONE TEST CYCLES! THEY ARE GREAT! (This is not the issue)

if its not the issue, what is! your contention is that you don't need test in every cycle. so if you've done them are they apart of the 40 POUNDS you gained this year? or is that all var and d bol? you're doing a great job of calling people closed minded, now show us your facts(unscientifically of course)

1.how were your gains on test as opposed to orals?!
2.could it be that you don't like needles?
3.are you really saying you keep all your gains on an oral cycle?
4.did you really gain 40 flippin lbs on an all oral cycle
5.does the fact that you are 22 have anything to do with your growth spurt?
6.would a 37 yr old gain 40 lbs in a year on your 5 wk 20mg per day d bol cycle?
7.with a name like "the mind of ross" aren't you the uni bomber? rotflmblackasso!

[1-Cent]

I don't understand how you can say that Test gives unkeepable gains, stating it as a fact, while Dbol does without citing sources for either other than your own experiance. I gained nearly 30lbs on my first Test only cycle and kept about 26lbs of that after PCT... I've witnessed many Dbol only cycles and every single one, even with a very well done diet, and they all end the same, every single one - balloon up 15 or so lbs in 4-6 weeks and then end up with about 5lbs and not even lean lbs. Taking anti-e's to keep off the water will not magicly make Dbol a lean mass drug, I'm taking Dbol and Letrozole right now with Test and I can tell you its not lean so what makes your personal experiance more valid than my own?

I lose next to nothing post PCT, my HPTA bounces back extremely quickly, I get blood tests every 3 months and post cycle to proove this... while you lose a great deal apparently and have HPTA issues, I say you don't know how to properly utilize more advanced AAS compounds and recovery meathods thats what this says to me anyway.

[TheMindOfRoss]

if its not the issue, what is! your contention is that you don't need test in every cycle. so if you've done them are they apart of the 40 POUNDS you gained this year? or is that all var and d bol? you're doing a great job of calling people closed minded, now show us your facts(unscientifically of course)

1.how were your gains on test as opposed to orals?!
2.could it be that you don't like needles?
3.are you really saying you keep all your gains on an oral cycle?
4.did you really gain 40 flippin lbs on an all oral cycle
5.does the fact that you are 22 have anything to do with your growth spurt?
6.would a 37 yr old gain 40 lbs in a year on your 5 wk 20mg per day d bol cycle?
7.with a name like "the mind of ross" aren't you the uni bomber? rotflmblackasso!

First of all, I was locked up from the ages of 13-17. I was in an out of juvenile facilities, including in and out-patient drug rehabs, a Wilderness program, and a severe behavioral modification program in Poland Maine. So no, I was not picked on in high school--I was the ringleader and always have been. I still am the motherfvckin ringleader.

As for the questions:

1.) "how were your gains on test as opposed to orals?!"

MY TEST gains WERE GREAT--but shortlived. I believe this was due to several factors, first and foremost being the DRAMATIC effect it had on my endogenous testosterone production. The post cycle crash was always more severe and longer in duration that when I used class 1 androgens like primo. Because ESTROGEN levels were supraphysiologically high (even with the use of an estro supressor) which also triggers a negative feedback mechanism, recovery was mreo difficult than with teh use of NON-AROMATIZING steroids (TREN , OX, Primo) Furthermore, risk of side effects are always high with test--luckily, i got out scratch free several times. Most of my friends and clients have not been so lucky--especially those prone to BALDNESS!

2.) "could it be that you don't like needles? "

I LOVE NEEDLES! Use em with prop, tren, primo.

3.) :are you really saying you keep all your gains on an oral cycle?"

DEPENDING on the drug/drugs used, the dosages used, and duration of cycle length, YES--it is possible to keep ALL nor nearly ALL of your gains.

4.) "did you really gain 40 flippin lbs on an all oral cycle"


NO OF COURSE NOT! THIS IS ALL OF THE MASS I AQUIRED WITHIN THOSE 2 years! More than 5 cycles.

[TheMindOfRoss]

I've witnessed many Dbol only cycles and every single one, even with a very well done diet, and they all end the same, every single one - balloon up 15 or so lbs in 4-6 weeks and then end up with about 5lbs and not even lean lbs. Taking anti-e's to keep off the water will not magicly make Dbol a lean mass drug, I'm taking Dbol and Letrozole right now with Test and I can tell you its not lean so what .

THIS is because NO ONE knows how to PROPERLY USE Methandrostenelone! It is a VERY VERSATILE COMPOUND....Half life of 4 HOURS! More POTENT MG for MG than EVEN TEST!! (Anabolically) I BET you 1MILLION dollars that you and your friends were using more than 20mgs. One can use d-bol at 15mgs a day.

[dive_kid]

you keep referring to your "clients"
what do you do for work?

[longhorn814]

The post cycle crash was always more severe and longer in duration that when I used class 1 androgens like primo. Because ESTROGEN levels were supraphysiologically high (even with the use of an estro supressor) which also triggers a negative feedback mechanism, recovery was mreo difficult than with teh use of NON-AROMATIZING steroids (TREN , OX, Primo) Furthermore, risk of side effects are always high with test--luckily, i got out scratch free several times. Most of my friends and clients have not been so lucky--especially those prone to BALDNESS!

so youre saying tren is less surpressive than test? I'd love for you to prove that.

[dive_kid]

bottom line here is he keeps talking about all these great things, but is doing nothing to back it up. give us something to see.studies or even multiple experiences from other people.
out of thousands of posts read, here and other boards, I have never heard a good thing about oral cycles

[TheMindOfRoss]

you keep referring to your "clients"
what do you do for work?

LOL..I live in a HUGE college town known as Gainesville, Florida. Home of University of Florida, and the second largest community college in the country, Sana Fe College. This place is my "Petri Dish"...there is never a shortage of willing college athletes/egoists eager to undergo any steroid treatment plan that I may prescribe to them. They do this MOSTLY for free. Occasionally I will charge the regulars so that I may keep funding my research. I also experiment, but only with THE BEST CYCLES and the MOST EFFECTIVE cycling/dosing schemes. This is what I do.