Problems with the Beheading Video of Civilian Mr. Berg

Quote:

---

Sources for all my facts can be found at the bottom, they are labeled according to subject.

That having been said...

Many have said the video was released noting how "convenient" it was that the tape had come out, just as the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal was in full swing. Not only did this take the abuse scandal off of headlines, but it swayed public opinion back against "those ****ing Iraqis".

Evidence

1) Most people replied by asserting that the execution occured as retribution to the abuse photos that had surfaced, but you have to ask yourself - do these terrorists, who are clearly capable of brainwashing people to the point where they are willing to kill and be killed for their beliefs, really have no concept of political tact? Here they are, the whole world screaming at the US for hypocrisy and injustice over these pictures, and they perform and publish this execution right in the heat of the scandal. In other words, these masters of brainwashing and spin and deception release a video of a despicable act just as the US, their sworn enemy, is being globally grilled. Does this make sense to you?

2) Second, I wonder what the standard issue chair is at Abu Ghraib prison?
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20...1469170513.jpg
http://radio-canada.ca/nouvelles/res...rg-video_n.jpg


3) Is it not interesting that the wall colour at Abu Ghraib prison is identical to that of the video?

4) Is it not also interesting that Berg is wearing the same orange jumpsuit worn by prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison? Sure, you say, perhaps he was kidnapped directly from the prison (as stupid as this sounds, anyway) - but then can you please explain (7)?

5) Is it also not interesting that the timecodes in the video jump back and forth?

6) Is it also not interesting that Berg did not exhibit any of the convulsions that typically accompany decapitation? http://www.ahsc.arizona.edu/uac/iacuc/rodents/avma.htm I am suggesting here that Berg was already dead when the decapitation occured (which accounts for 5). Before you go calling me crazy, please review the evidence; why did he not exhibit the convulsions that go hand in hand with decapitation (especially such an extended one)?

7) Is it not curious that the US denies contact with Berg, and yet his friends and family insist that he told them he was being held by the US? Huh? Why?

8) Another tape oddity - the men SPEAK RUSSIAN for several seconds. Not only that, but they speak Arabic with Russian accents. That's right, in the final seconds of the tape, one of the men speaks in Russian. Those here who understand russian (and have the stomach to view that final seconds of the video) can verify this. Those who speak Arabic will be able to verify that these men speak Arabic in Russian accents.

9) Finally (the physical evidence that will convince you in case you already aren't)...
You will notice, in watching the video, that 6 times, a gold ring flashes on the hand of the executioner. What is the problem? Islam completely and utterly forbids men to wear gold rings. This fanatical muslim, willing to kill in a gutwrenching manner, and be killed for his beliefs, is violating one of the clear prohibitions of his religion? Really? DOES THIS MAKE SENSE TO YOU?

A few more points:

10) Nick Berg understands Arabic, but sits calmy while statement is read, waiting to be killed. Hmm?

11) One of the executioners is wearing Air Jordans. WHAT?

12) The "terrorists" signed the video, yet they wear hoods and masks. Why?

13) The "terrorists" have lily white hands.

14) The video time is in US Military English. What the hell?

Conclusion
As many has suspected, but have not had the time to build a solid case for, the execution of Nick Berg was performed by coalition interests (most likely independent Russian mercenaries) in order to dwarf the abuse pictures and sway public opinion back against the Iraqis and in support of the war by taking advantage of the emotional reaction we all experience when hearing of such an despicable act. The poor production quality (all the "curiosities" I have pointed out) of this video can be attributed to the haste in which it was made after the order was given to distract the public from the abuse scandal, and is in line with my conclusion.

Again, before you attack my conclusion, attack my evidence. No matter how crazy you think this sounds, examine the evidence objectively and please try to deny a single thing I have said. If you cannot deny my evidence, you logically cannot deny my conclusion.

Sources:

Chair, wall, timecode, and :
http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat...-1#Post1469025
http://www.news24houston.com/content...=28906&SecID=2

Berg was in US custody:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/...nds/index.html

Gold rings forbidden by Islam:
http://www.khilafah.com/home/categor...D=9529&TagID=2
http://www.google.com/search?q=gold+...utf-8&oe=utf-8

---

http://www.pittpunk.com/index.php?na...f71d7920740460

Interesting read, before you say I am a conspricay theorists, there werent any conspricay theories after the brutal killing of Daniel Pearl. Something is wrong here.

i must admit, they are compelling arguments. Whatever the case I hope this thread stays civil.

so what is the conspiracy here? are they claiming the US killed berg? of that the US found him dead, made the video and then cut off his head?

whichever the case, whoever made the video is a sick son of a bitch and does not deserve to live.

Whoever did it, the crimes are the work of animals, I am not justifying these actions.

i think the CIA DID IT

ooooooohooooo, conspiracies. But, I wont be surprise that everything is faked, actually I prefer it to be, oh yeah, when you cut someone's throat there is quite a large amount of blood that errupt from the victim.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilitiaGuy

i think the CIA DID IT

---

Hey Bob! CIA = AL-Queada :bath: :elephant:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 3Vandoo

ooooooohooooo, conspiracies. But, I wont be surprise that everything is faked, actually I prefer it to be, oh yeah, when you cut someone's throat there is quite a large amount of blood that errupt from the victim.

---

i wondered where all the blood was. did anybody see the video of the russian soldier getting his throat cut out by a nazi? there was blood everywhere. of course the berg video is bad quality....hmmm bad quality, coincidence???

Question about #4 . I thought the orange jumpsuits are similar to the ones prisoners who were victims of abuse at guantonamo bay wore ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 3Vandoo

Hey Bob! CIA = AL-Queada :bath: :elephant:

---

true, cia made al queada what they are. gave em money, training, experience...

a. anything is possible - but the scenario of al-Zarqawi killing the guy just to make a statement is more probable
b. terrorists have not exactly shown themselves to be rational beings - and they have repeatedly misread US public opinion to their actions
c. terrorists we know for a fact are not strict at following shiara law when it comes to their own lives - numerous examples
d. Berg was clearly out of US?iraqi custody when he wrote his last email to his family
e. terrorists can be from the caucuses - not far from afganistan at all - could be part of al-Zarqawi's crew
f. your evidence is not sufficient to draw the conclusion you have presented - there are still numerous possibilities even if 90% of what you say is actually accurate - only 10% needs to be false in order for a completely different scenario to be true
g. beheading is NOT that unusual to arabs - there are a number of assasins employed by MANY of the various terror factions that kill people in just this very way who have been operating for years - but just not for Americans and not on TV
h. al-Zarqawi's voice has been verified for the tape that it was certainly him in the first scene

there is little doubt that SOMEONE died to make that sound that is in the tape - i dont think a movie special effects man could ever be so effective

cycleon - we dont KNOW that it is actually al-Zarqawi's voice... the govenrment said it was...but then, hasnt the government lied to the world before? it could very well be Zarqawi's voice, but the only people who really know are the one's that analyzed the data.

I agree that they aren't rational. And therefore I believe that they could be so blinded by hate that they would release the video at a very un-opportune time for them. But then again, they are very clever.

anything is possible.

the only thing I know is that whoever did this is sick, and I still contend that they deserve to die.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CYCLEON

a. anything is possible - but the scenario of al-Zarqawi killing the guy just to make a statement is more probable
b. terrorists have not exactly shown themselves to be rational beings - and they have repeatedly misread US public opinion to their actions
c. terrorists we know for a fact are not strict at following shiara law when it comes to their own lives - numerous examples
d. Berg was clearly out of US?iraqi custody when he wrote his last email to his family
e. terrorists can be from the caucuses - not far from afganistan at all - could be part of al-Zarqawi's crew
f. your evidence is not sufficient to draw the conclusion you have presented - there are still numerous possibilities even if 90% of what you say is actually accurate - only 10% needs to be false in order for a completely different scenario to be true
g. beheading is NOT that unusual to arabs - there are a number of assasins employed by MANY of the various terror factions that kill people in just this very way who have been operating for years - but just not for Americans and not on TV
h. al-Zarqawi's voice has been verified for the tape that it was certainly him in the first scene

---

I definetly cannot argue with your presented points, because they are all true, but point "H" is still not 100%, the CIA is "fairly certain" that it is Al Zarqawi, but thats not certain 100% proof.

Well, assuming that the killers in the video are indeed russian merceneries (hey anything is possible) one thought comes to mind...

Mercenaries will hoar themselves out to whoever pays the most money for their services. A Saudi dude by the name of Osama Bin Laden and his friends (remember our "friend" Saudi Arabia, where almost all the 9/11 terrorists were from) also has access to oodles of money...

Now who do you think would pull a stunt like this one off? The US government to draw attention away form a few bad pictures in a prison? Or a terrorist with lots of money who would not hesitate to have someone else do his dirty business (you'll notice HE didn't go crash a plane on 9/11, he had others do it).

And if those mercenaries are indeed Russians who speak arabic and are pale skinned, maybe they'Re from northern afghanistan or in the former USSR around there? Wouldn't be a stretch for Osamas people to hire them...

Red

very interesting

http://www.pittpunk.com/index.php?na...f71d7920740460

they make some good points here. especially about the CIA reporting Al Zarqawi had been killed in a bombing raid in falluah. along with the reports that he had lost a leg years ago.

For one: All of you who think the CIA is in on it: The CIA is smart enough to not make mistakes such as AIR JORDANS and US military english time. They also would not release a tape with all these mistakes such as time jump, etc. They would have "REFILMED" it without the mistakes.

Decapitation coming from the back of the neck "RATHER" than the front does not cause convultions in the same fashion as forward to back. Blood filling the lungs and severing of the spinal cord all differ.

Afghanies speak russian dialect. Usually when military forces need to communicate, it is with an officer who speaks russian cause it is more common. Hell, almost 70 percent of the world is capable of speaking english.

Bombing trains with hundreds of innocent people on it does not seem like "BRAIN WASHING" to me. It seems to go side by side with the barbaric disregard for human dignity that has been shown on the video.

Orange jump suits: We probably got the orange jump suits from IRAQ to begin with. Not like we flew over hundreds of jumpsuits from America to dress our prisioners.

As far as the "SAME PAINT" Dude. Its not like we painted the prision ourselves. We took it over that was built in IRAQ. Im sure they sell the same color paint in that country. All their walls in that country are probably painted the same muave color.

With him being calm. Its kinda like all you pussies in highschool who got picked on. Always calm and complacient even in the last moment of pummeling in hopes that your subduers will stop because you pose no threat anymore.

Its kinda like the concentration camps in Germany. "ONE" german soldier with ONE gun just stood and shot hundreds of jews standing in a row. You know hundreds of guys can rush the man but yet they didnt. For some reason, even when you know you are gonna die, you just hope it doesnt happen. This prolongs your life even if it is looking at death.
Or, you are made to dig your own grave even when you know you are gonna be shot and put in it. WHY? Cause you are gonna dig slow and at that time of digging, you are still alive. You dont try to fight with a shovel. You just keep digging.

The conspiracy thing is just way over done. It is too hard to have a GLOBAL conspiracy now adays. The internet, the leaks, etc. The gov' does not consist of just 5 people. It consists of millions. You can not keep a secret amongst a million people. Not even amongst 100. One of those people will tell someone else.


GET A CLUE GUYS. Stop hoping for conspiracy and just accept the fact that these people hold different values for human life. If you are not one of them, then you will die the same way we kill cows. Cows in which are worshiped by them.

I was reading some of that website. The conspiracy starts at the BUSH administration. Then later people start saying the FBI was in on it. Then the CIA.
You guys try telling 5 of your friends that you have herpies from fvcking some fat ugly whore. You tell them to promise not to tell anyone. I garunetee that two weeks later, EVERYONE will know you have herpies.
That is just from trying to have 5 of your closest friends a secret. It just doesnt happen.

only way 2 people can keep a secret is if one is dead

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilitiaGuy

i think the CIA DID IT

---

You misspelled 'CANADA'. Everyone knows Canada is to blame for everything.

Quote:

---

Evidence

1) Most people replied by asserting that the execution occured as retribution to the abuse photos that had surfaced, but you have to ask yourself - do these terrorists, who are clearly capable of brainwashing people to the point where they are willing to kill and be killed for their beliefs, really have no concept of political tact? Here they are, the whole world screaming at the US for hypocrisy and injustice over these pictures, and they perform and publish this execution right in the heat of the scandal. In other words, these masters of brainwashing and spin and deception release a video of a despicable act just as the US, their sworn enemy, is being globally grilled. Does this make sense to you?

---

No concept of political tact? He was an American. He was a Jew. To them, he had "kill me" written all over him...

Quote:

---

2) Second, I wonder what the standard issue chair is at Abu Ghraib prison?

---

Oh, you mean those cheap old plasti-mold chairs you can pick up at Wal-Mart? As someone mentioned earlier, they're cheap and common. This evidence isn't convincing.

Quote:

---

3) Is it not interesting that the wall colour at Abu Ghraib prison is identical to that of the video?

---

Again, thinking like an American. These people don't have a Home Depot over there, let alone any shop that mixes DuPont or Glidden paint. I'm sure many of those Iraqi buildings have that color paint on them.

Quote:

---

4) Is it not also interesting that Berg is wearing the same orange jumpsuit worn by prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison? Sure, you say, perhaps he was kidnapped directly from the prison (as stupid as this sounds, anyway) - but then can you please explain?

---

Again, this could have been obtained from anywhere.

Quote:

---

5) Is it also not interesting that the timecodes in the video jump back and forth?

---

Sounds like the handiwork of some terrorists who aren't techno-savvy. They were likely screwing around with the buttons, or a finger slipped.

Quote:

---

6) Is it also not interesting that Berg did not exhibit any of the convulsions that typically accompany decapitation? http://www.ahsc.arizona.edu/uac/iacuc/rodents/avma.htm I am suggesting here that Berg was already dead when the decapitation occured (which accounts for 5). Before you go calling me crazy, please review the evidence; why did he not exhibit the convulsions that go hand in hand with decapitation (especially such an extended one)?

---

This is probably the most stupid and inobservant arguments in this guy's "evidence". People claimed he was dead already? First, dead people don't squirm. Second, dead people's faces don't change in expression when they're dead. If you watch closely, you'll see his expressions change. Third, they claim he didn't convulse? Someone's been watching too much Hollywood. He's not gonna flop all over the place for one, and don't forget that the other people were hiolding him down while he was resisting (HE WAS RESISTING). And finally, if you'll notice, you can't see the blood because he's laying on a reddish or brownish cloth. If you look even closer, you'll see the "darker" area on the floor, where the blood from his neck had pooled...

Quote:

---

7) Is it not curious that the US denies contact with Berg, and yet his friends and family insist that he told them he was being held by the US? Huh? Why?

---

I don't recall them saying he was being detained by the US, but they did prevent his departure from Iraq until they found more information on him.

Quote:

---

8) Another tape oddity - the men SPEAK RUSSIAN for several seconds. Not only that, but they speak Arabic with Russian accents. That's right, in the final seconds of the tape, one of the men speaks in Russian. Those here who understand russian (and have the stomach to view that final seconds of the video) can verify this. Those who speak Arabic will be able to verify that these men speak Arabic in Russian accents.

---

I cannot confirm this, but maybe someone else can. Who's to say that the terrorists didn't hire Russian mercs to do their dirty work?

Quote:

---

9) Finally (the physical evidence that will convince you in case you already aren't)...
You will notice, in watching the video, that 6 times, a gold ring flashes on the hand of the executioner. What is the problem? Islam completely and utterly forbids men to wear gold rings. This fanatical muslim, willing to kill in a gutwrenching manner, and be killed for his beliefs, is violating one of the clear prohibitions of his religion? Really? DOES THIS MAKE SENSE TO YOU?

---

Again, these guys could have been mercs employed by a terrorist group. Who knows...

Quote:

---

10) Nick Berg understands Arabic, but sits calmy while statement is read, waiting to be killed. Hmm?

---

That's because they don't say in their speech that he was to be beheaded. They were ranting about how they tried to bargain with the US for prisoners to be freed and how all the US soldiers are going to be sent home in coffins just like this kid.

Quote:

---

11) One of the executioners is wearing Air Jordans. WHAT?

---

Who's to say they didn't get them from Nick Berg???

Quote:

---

12) The "terrorists" signed the video, yet they wear hoods and masks. Why?

---

Because that's all part of their ritual. I've watched other beheadings online, and they always cover their face. Could be to protect their identity, but more likely, it's for religious reasons.

Quote:

---

13) The "terrorists" have lily white hands.

---

That's an exaggeration. Digital video colors can vary from monitor to monitor.

Quote:

---

14) The video time is in US Military English. What the hell?

---

Of all the camcorders I've seen, they come in English only. There are always two options on the recorder as well- standard time & military time.

Whoever came up with this crap is stupid and misinformed. They have one or two fairly agreeable arguments, supported by a crapload of subjective & circumstancial garbage to try and better sway its viewers to agree with their theory. Get a life, people. RIP Nick Berg...

They are all interesting points and anything is possible. I watched an intelligence analyst on Fox today who said that Berg's story doesn't add up and that in his judgement the whole radio tower and electronics expert thing he was over there for was just a cover and that he was actually part of some type of intelligence service. We are told the FBI did talk to him after he was held by the Iraq police because the FBI had investigated him earelier for having dealings with terrorist mastermind Zacharias Moussaoui. That's right he actually shared his password and account with one of the terrorists in the US that was to be part of September 11th, the gov't wants us to belive that he just happened to share his laptop with this terrorist. What type of coincidence is that? The statistical chances that 2 years later he would be walking around IRAQ are just unbelievable. Also he took all kinds of overseas trips to different countries to help out? Could it have been a cover and he was actually part of an intelligence service? I don't know. Either way his death was horrible.

Article :
http://wizbangblog.com/archives/002476.php

Now i don't quite know the names here but a few months back an american reporter was beheaded the same as berg from another top al queda member. Why would you think this is any different? Everyone can cry conspiracy but all I know is I heard Nick Berg's last cry and it was terrible and still haunts me. Besides the fact that I downloaded a video on Kazaa with a top member of the taliban cutting the head off one of his own... again these people are very capable of such terrible acts... They also execute american soldiers and play it on tv for all to see... They are a bunch of sick mother FU@kers if you ask me... and so what if he wears air jordans? I'm sure even though Iraq is a poor country someone could come up with the money to get a pair of air jordans somewhere! I mean come on the man was brutally brutally murdered and people cry conspiracy... how about crying over his death because no human being deserves that fate!

One more thing... I seen the video which had a 5 minute long speech and was excellent quality... Way better then that on ogrish.com or whatever that site is... There was lots of blood when it happened... there was a struggle... and all the guys were plenty dark... I didn't see any white hands as someone claimed before. That death was as real and horrific as any man, woman, and child could imagine! This was a real living and breathing human being who had 5 or 6 seconds to realize that his death was coming from decapitation... and what a horrifying feeling that would be along with the unbearable pain!

Another thing is the al queda is all about revenge... infact they base their pathedic lives around it... Why would the CIA say "We nagotiated his release, for the release of prisoners at abu grabe prison" Why would the CIA even bring that up and make America look so bad??? If in the long run they were trying to erase the bad image america has now because of what happened with the pics. If anything the CIA would have said... "The americans tried to bargain for berg but this man is going to die for what the americans did to the prisoners" to make the terrorists look worse... I mean come on... think about it!

I don't know what to say......If I wasn't there then I will never know what happened.

If u think the CIA or any US government agency did that... then u must also be one of the people who believe that we never went to the moon. Just fake video from the government :rolleyes:
Also that you think that because of the mistreatment of some POW's wound be reason for the US to do this. Ur really fishing here

Very interesting, however I haven't found a link to the video that worked for me so I can't give an opinion on the evidence here regarding Mr berg's actions on the video. I'd need a link now please. Its not morbid curiosity, honestly, but I want to look through all stuff with some friends now.

Well to you all conspiracist!

Berg was blackmailed, they presented him fact that he did helped Al-Queada for the 9/11 and blackmailed him about his presence in Iraq, they offered him a deal, you participate in this and you are a new man and free.

They did the video, people start looking elsewhere toward the bad muslim radicals, they yell dead to these bastards, keep our troop there bla bla bla...

it does the trick.

I think I should stop listening to Art Bell :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PuddleMonkey

You misspelled 'CANADA'. Everyone knows Canada is to blame for everything.

---

Hey leave us alone, not because we give terrorists a home, passport, wellfare, healthcare, shelters, live them do whatever they want, alienate the people here, give them rights that we have something to do with it
:blush:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BOUNCER

Very interesting, however I haven't found a link to the video that worked for me so I can't give an opinion on the evidence here regarding Mr berg's actions on the video. I'd need a link now please. Its not morbid curiosity, honestly, but I want to look through all stuff with some friends now.

---

Thanks for the PM's a couple of people sent me, but the links don't work. Has anyone actually viewed a link that works yet?.

You can download it off Kazaa, Morpheus, Limewire, etc...

wow, cool. I love conspiracy theories.

I love when all the conspiratists come out of the woodwork. I have no doubt our government has the capability to do this but PLEASE. Everything is a conspiracy right. The guy was beheaded by a bunch of POS thugs.

what is getting wierd about this is not in the direction of the US government - looks more like Berg was a possible al queda recruit who had outlived his usefulness - some really strange things tying him to oklahoma city bombing as well - now I dont think the US had anything to do with his death for a minute but I am truly beginning to wonder what in the HELL he was doing over there - found ALONE many times wandering around in Iraq? when most americans are holed up in mini-forts? something does smell - Is it possible that Berg was a sympathizer who ultimately was sacrificed by al-Zarqawi because he thought it was usefull? was he trying to join up and thats how he got caught? maybe thats what he was wandering around to try to find?

I dont want to in any way denigrate the horrible way that this poor fellow died but something doesnt add up on this story - and for some reason I am not smelling CIA stench but something else

I agree with this part, I have no idea why any American would be over there wandering the streets alone... Seemed like a smart young man... That part just doesn't make any sense... Plus he was Jewish and still felt safe enuf to be over there walking around alone... Why?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CYCLEON

I am truly beginning to wonder what in the HELL he was doing over there - found ALONE many times wandering around in Iraq? when most americans are holed up in mini-forts?

---

good points. I dont think (or rather i dont want to believe) that the US gov. did this to him. of course CIA could hire russian mercs to do it easy, and I wouldnt put it past any public official, but I really hope thats not the case.

I agree that Bergs story doesnt quite check out. Who knows what he was really into. This will have to remain a conspiracy. If the gov. is involved nobody will ever know the truth.

what about al-zarqawi though? He lost his leg a while back, but the killer had 2. And then CIA reports him killed in a bombing raid before the pow's were even mistreated. i just dont understand why they would say that he was the killer but claim he was killed months before??? guess some more research is in order...

Hey cycleon for this to be true... That would mean Berg would have been 17 years old when the oklahoma bombing happend... Don't you think that's a little young to be involved in such a big thing... I mean if i'm not mistaken that happened in 1995?? When I was 17 I was trying to not get caught skipping class and drinking under age... I find that to be a little odd :?:
Berg Died at age 26
"what is getting wierd about this is not in the direction of the US government - looks more like Berg was a possible al queda recruit who had outlived his usefulness - some really strange things tying him to oklahoma city bombing as well"

I find it funny that the tape says "beheading of american by al-zarqui" and it is signed with so much pride by Abu Musab, yet he puts a mask to cover himself up.

And the CIA was so quick to confirm, it was infact Al-Zarqui in the video.

Something is not right in the picture.

I think its part of the US administrations plan to make Abu Musab Zarqui they worst man there is possible, make him seem worst than Osama Bin Laden, and basically make him seem like the son of the devil.

And then capture him right before the elections.

We will see how this pans out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN

I think its part of the US administrations plan to make Abu Musab Zarqui they worst man there is possible, make him seem worst than Osama Bin Laden, and basically make him seem like the son of the devil.

And then capture him right before the elections.

We will see how this pans out.

---

time will tell. of course, there most likely would not be any proof so it will remain a conspiracy theory.