From the Al-Jazeera Website

**Lozgod** · 06-15-2004, 11:19 PM

I understand having a no negotiation policy with terrorists, however I think we need to start, we are losing this war and this guy is goona die. My feeling is maybe we should discuss how we can all live together, and if that doesn't work, then nuke these bastards. Too many innocent people are dying, and as an American I blame some (very few) of these deaths on our policies.

They did start this war but we need to step back and see how we can really win because our current method isn't working. JMO.

Paul Johnson, 49, of Stafford Township, New Jersey, was abducted on Saturday by a group calling itself "Al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula". The organisation is believed to be headed by al-Qaida's chief in the kingdom, Abd Allah Aziz al-Muqrin.

A hooded man read a statement on the tape which was released on Tuesday. As he was reading, a subtitle on the screen identified him as al-Muqrin.

His statement was similar to a printed message on the Web site that carried the name of al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula. It said the group gave Saudi authorities 72 hours to release "mujahadeen" fighters or it would kill the hostage.

The tape, which was first aired by CNN, showed Johnson sitting in a chair with his profile to the camera, a large tattoo on his left arm. It displayed his Lockheed Martin identification card. Johnson was employed by the American defense giant and worked on Apache helicopters.

No negotiation

Adil al-Jubair, foreign affairs adviser to the Saudi government, said shortly after the video appeared that the kingdom would consult with the US administration about how to proceed, but Riyadh like Washington has a strict no-negotiation policy.

Paul Johnson's ID was posted
on the internet

"We don't negotiate with terrorists. We don't negotiate with hostage-takers," al-Jubair said in an interview on CNN.

Al-Jubair denounced the hostage-takers, but said it was premature to be able to verify any of the information on the video, saying, "We can't simply go with what appears on Web sites."

"It shows the cruel and inhumane face of the enemy we're dealing with," al-Jubair said.

Falluja Brigade

The statement on the Web site says the holy warriors of the Arabian peninsula's Falluja Brigade has "hit" the engineering team that "oversees the development of the American Apache helicopter that attacks Muslims in Palestine and Afghanistan."

"We can't simply go with what appears on Web sites"

Adil al-Jubair,
Foreign affairs adviser to the Saudi government

It says: "The Falluja Brigade has killed the director of this team and kidnapped one of its engineers, Paul Johnson, and if the tyrannical Saudi government wants their American master to be released, then they have to release our holy warriors that are held in Hair, Ruweis and Alisha prisons within 72 hours of this statement's date."

The day Johnson was seized, armed dissidents shot dead another American, Kenneth Scroggs, from Laconia, New Hampshire, in his garage. Scroggs was the third Westerner killed in a week. An Irish cameraman for the BBC was shot to death on 6 June and another American was killed in his garage on 8 June.

Saudi security forces arrested an armed dissident north of Riyadh on Tuesday as they stepped up their presence in and around the city in a hunt for Johnson's kidnappers.

**BDTR** · 06-15-2004, 11:26 PM

If we negotiate, then more inncidents will happen when people realize they can get what they want.

**chicamahomico** · 06-15-2004, 11:27 PM

I disagree. While the death of a human is always a tragic event, these people choose to work in a risky environment for an entremely high wages. If you value your life more than a paycheque don't go work in the middle east.

**PurePower** · 06-15-2004, 11:29 PM

As much as people would like to save this guys life, its just not possible.

**Lozgod** · 06-15-2004, 11:45 PM

I thought about that too. Like that kid from PA that got his head chopped off, he made a decision to go over there. I just don't like the idea of these guys brutaly killing Americans, it's like a spit in the face, we need to really flex on these low life bastards. They do this and these liberals cry over what is going on in that prison.

Originally Posted by chicamahomico

I disagree. While the death of a human is always a tragic event, these people choose to work in a risky environment for an entremely high wages. If you value your life more than a paycheque don't go work in the middle east.

**PrairieDawg** · 06-15-2004, 11:55 PM

this **** is never going to end. I dont even watch the news anymore cause hearing about how many people got killed today is just too depressing

**Warrior** · 06-15-2004, 11:56 PM

Never beleve Al Jazera. They have been removed from our ME installations due to spreading the opposite of what they were told. They spread gossip - they should not be considered a reliable news source. (BTW - the Jordanian chick is HOT!) That is all...

**SwoleCat** · 06-15-2004, 11:56 PM

Ditto. It ain't my war to fight.

Wasn't my idea, my problem, my issue, my nose in anyone else's sh*t, etc.

U expect ME to die for that shiznit? Phuckin' crazy.......

~SC~

**Lozgod** · 06-15-2004, 11:57 PM

This isn't an accusation, just a speculation, do you think it is possible it is OUR media thats being lied to or voluntarily lying and there media is the accurate one?

Originally Posted by Warrior

Never beleve Al Jazera. They have been removed from our ME installations due to spreading the opposite of what they were told. They spread gossip - they should not be considered a reliable news source. (BTW - the Jordanian chick is HOT!) That is all...

***SV-1*** · 06-15-2004, 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by PrairieDawg

this **** is never going to end. I dont even watch the news anymore cause hearing about how many people got killed today is just too depressing

Yep. Sh*t like this makes me mad/sad at the same time.

**PurePower** · 06-15-2004, 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by PrairieDawg

this **** is never going to end. I dont even watch the news anymore cause hearing about how many people got killed today is just too depressing

I havent hardly watched TV in a few weeks. Only the Crocadile Hunter

Also the weather channel in the AM. Its just too depressing.

**Warrior** · 06-16-2004, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by Lozgod

This isn't an accusation, just a speculation, do you think it is possible it is OUR media thats being lied to or voluntarily lying and there media is the accurate one?

What you have to realize is you are told what you need to be told. Some sh!t is in the hands of national security. But CNN, AP, Reuters reporters are not told one thing in a press release and then turn around and report another... Al Jazeera does. Reporting exactly the facts is fundamental to being a journalist - once you print something false your career goes DOWN... finding another job can be useless... no one wants you anymore. But Al Jazeera likes to spread sh!t and their readers (targeted at the Arab population) seem to suck it up...

**BOUNCER** · 06-16-2004, 12:57 AM

You can bet your life the US administration is talking to terrorists. It happens in all war's, happened here when the British held talks with the IRA for over 30 yrs.

Oh, their talking alright.

**bermich** · 06-16-2004, 01:15 AM

Publicly, we dont negotiate with terrorists. Behind the scenes, things are being done to prevent such things. There are SO MANY events that we dont hear about that take place on a daily basis. Step back and realize ALL the things the media does not and IS NOT allowed to talk about. Realize all the classified missions that take place on a daily basis. Dont be naive and think you know everything just because you havent heard otherwise.

**singern** · 06-16-2004, 08:18 AM

The policy of not negotiating is open to interpretation. Its always a matter of lesser evil.
Example..Afgan rebels were the lesser evil during the USSR era, We really will never know what goes on behind closed (political) doors. but in a case like this where the local government has been surprisingly active against the criminals we can only guess the outcome.

And I must humbly disagree with chicamahomico, just because the situation is know to be dangeorous doesnt mean the innocent isnt eligable to any of the protection, and service the law has to offer. No different from a rock climber who gets stuck and needs rescue.

**redwizza** · 06-17-2004, 11:04 AM

its an unjust war and as long as US is there, there will be blood shed on both sides, and no nuking them will not be the solution!
the following must be done to end this war:

#1 complete take over of the operations by UN coalition.
#2 cancelation of all illegal contracts that have been made recently benefiting american construction companies by the billions. the elected government of iraq (dec 2005) must choose who they will give contracts to, not the US government giving its self some lucarative contracts that will make a bunch of texans even richer in the expense of thousands of lives and world stability.
#3 the us ppl must begin to play a responsible role in ellecting responsible/accountable government, not a pupet government.
#4 the US should not force democracy on other nations coz that goes against the idea of DEMOCRACY in the first place.
#5 stop supporting the most harsh and corrupt regimes like the saudi regime, when at the same time this fake war is suppose to be about "protecting the free world".

until the US stops its empirialist goals in the oil rich countries, there will remain the so called "terrorists", and it will get worse and worse.
ppl just want to have rights just like you and I.

but sadly with all that said, the war will go on and blood shed will continoue to occur because the self interest groups in the US will not let things happen differently. there are billions of dollars worth of weapons to sell in the expense of taxpayers money and there are billions of dollars worth of construction contracts to illegaly come up with.

**Lozgod** · 06-17-2004, 11:26 AM

I agree with points 2, 3, and 4. This Democraric crusade is wrong as wrong gets. It is a form of tyranny, forcing nations in to democracy or feel our wrath. Higherarchy societies are a tradition in Africa and the Middle East. I am greatful to live in a free society, however I do hate some aspects about America.

Originally Posted by redwizza

its an unjust war and as long as US is there, there will be blood shed on both sides, and no nuking them will not be the solution!
the following must be done to end this war:

#1 complete take over of the operations by UN coalition.
#2 cancelation of all illegal contracts that have been made recently benefiting american construction companies by the billions. the elected government of iraq (dec 2005) must choose who they will give contracts to, not the US government giving its self some lucarative contracts that will make a bunch of texans even richer in the expense of thousands of lives and world stability.
#3 the us ppl must begin to play a responsible role in ellecting responsible/accountable government, not a pupet government.
#4 the US should not force democracy on other nations coz that goes against the idea of DEMOCRACY in the first place.
#5 stop supporting the most harsh and corrupt regimes like the saudi regime, when at the same time this fake war is suppose to be about "protecting the free world".

until the US stops its empirialist goals in the oil rich countries, there will remain the so called "terrorists", and it will get worse and worse.
ppl just want to have rights just like you and I.

but sadly with all that said, the war will go on and blood shed will continoue to occur because the self interest groups in the US will not let things happen differently. there are billions of dollars worth of weapons to sell in the expense of taxpayers money and there are billions of dollars worth of construction contracts to illegaly come up with.

**tryingtogetbig** · 06-17-2004, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by Lozgod

I thought about that too. Like that kid from PA that got his head chopped off, he made a decision to go over there. I just don't like the idea of these guys brutaly killing Americans, it's like a spit in the face, we need to really flex on these low life bastards. They do this and these liberals cry over what is going on in that prison.

...the thing now though is that they are killing American civilians that are in the middle east.....not in the USA.....

**Warrior** · 06-17-2004, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by tryingtogetbig

...the thing now though is that they are killing American civilians that are in the middle east.....not in the USA.....

We don't count?

An American willing to leave everything to work in the Middle East amongst angry Arabs is still an American... a **** good one at that. That poor guy was just trying to help, working in an f'ed up place and got too nieve and paid the ultimate price. But good Americans are getting killed all the time. Trust me, it ain't the easiest society to try and live in - ain't nothing like the US...

**Rak_Ani** · 06-17-2004, 03:15 PM

Heard of Entebe Operation? That's the only way to deal with terrorists.

**tryingtogetbig** · 06-17-2004, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Warrior

We don't count?

An American willing to leave everything to work in the Middle East amongst angry Arabs is still an American... a **** good one at that. That poor guy was just trying to help, working in an f'ed up place and got too nieve and paid the ultimate price. But good Americans are getting killed all the time. Trust me, it ain't the easiest society to try and live in - ain't nothing like the US...

No No...you missed my point.....I was saying that we have taken the battle to them now.....they aren't taking down anymore skyscrapers here in the US.....

**Warrior** · 06-17-2004, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by tryingtogetbig

No No...you missed my point.....I was saying that we have taken the battle to them now.....they aren't taking down anymore skyscrapers here in the US.....

Ahh - this is true... but Americans should not be nieve in the homeland either... these guys are like rats - you never know what hole they'll crawl out of...

**tryingtogetbig** · 06-17-2004, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by Warrior

Ahh - this is true... but Americans should not be nieve in the homeland either... these guys are like rats - you never know what hole they'll crawl out of...

Very true my friend....hopefully us being over there doing some population control will help us avoid it though....hopefully....

**chicamahomico** · 06-17-2004, 04:23 PM

I disagree Warrior, he was there for the several hundred to fifteen hundred or so a day that professionals make for working there. He was not just there to help out, he was acting in his own self interest and accepted a big risk which led to an unfortunate event for him and his family.

Originally Posted by Warrior

We don't count?

An American willing to leave everything to work in the Middle East amongst angry Arabs is still an American... a **** good one at that. That poor guy was just trying to help, working in an f'ed up place and got too nieve and paid the ultimate price. But good Americans are getting killed all the time. Trust me, it ain't the easiest society to try and live in - ain't nothing like the US...

**Warrior** · 06-17-2004, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by chicamahomico

I disagree Warrior, he was there for the several hundred to fifteen hundred or so a day that professionals make for working there. He was not just there to help out, he was acting in his own self interest and accepted a big risk which led to an unfortunate event for him and his family.

The money is only be good money if you keep your butt alive long enough to invest it... there are a lot of people not willing to go do what he did for any amount... I certainly would not say this guy was being selfish... many of these jobs are quite easy to get - and thats due to lack of interest... today, no matter what your profession is - it's pretty easy to get work in the Middle East... most contracts are understaffed...

**chicamahomico** · 06-17-2004, 04:39 PM

I didn't say he was being selfish, I said he was acting in his own self interest, which he is. Certainly, he didn't take the job for the betterment of mankind, he took it for teh big paycheque.

Originally Posted by Warrior

..I certainly would not say this guy was being selfish..

**Umberto** · 06-18-2004, 04:15 PM

Heard of Entebe Operation? That's the only way to deal with terrorists.

Yes my Jewish princess

I believe it was called OPERATION THUNDERBALL

Very succesful operation. There was only 1 commando death. And that was the leader of the operation, Yohni Netanyahou, a national hero, who was killed by a sniper

**Rak_Ani** · 06-18-2004, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by Umberto

Yes my Jewish princess

I believe it was called OPERATION THUNDERBALL

Very succesful operation. There was only 1 commando death. And that was the leader of the operation, Yohni Netanyahou, a national hero, who was killed by a sniper

Jewish princess? Why not Israeli princess? I prefer the second.
Well, you know history. Yoni Netanyahu, the brother of Bibi. The operation was successful and all passangers of the Air France flight were rescued. That's the only way to deal with terrorists

**M PWR** · 06-18-2004, 06:31 PM

http://cache.gettyimages.com/comp/50...C30E9B9B114CE8

extremely graphic image, look if you want.

**CAUSASIAN** · 06-19-2004, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by Rak_Ani

Jewish princess? Why not Israeli princess? I prefer the second.
Well, you know history. Yoni Netanyahu, the brother of Bibi. The operation was successful and all passangers of the Air France flight were rescued. That's the only way to deal with terrorists

What is Israel anyway, where is it? I will call you Zionist Entity Princess.

**CAUSASIAN** · 06-19-2004, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by Rak_Ani

Jewish princess? Why not Israeli princess? I prefer the second.
Well, you know history. Yoni Netanyahu, the brother of Bibi. The operation was successful and all passangers of the Air France flight were rescued. That's the only way to deal with terrorists

Israel calls Hizbollah Terrorists, yet is frequently negotiates with Hizbollah. Even though they say they dont negotiate with Terrorists.

**Umberto** · 06-20-2004, 08:50 PM

CAUCASIAN
are you from Chechnya?
A rebel fighter?

Maybe you can start a thread explaining the troubles in Chechnya. Im not too familiar. Please tell me it is about land and not insane Muslim radicals.

**singern** · 06-21-2004, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN

What is Israel anyway, where is it? I will call you Zionist Entity Princess.

Israel is the legitimate sovereign nation of the Jewish people, located in scenic middle east between the Jordan and the Mediterranean. It has been there forever and will remain forever. Get a life and get over it.

**Elliot** · 06-21-2004, 09:13 AM

Radical muslims?! NO?! Who would of thought....

**OGPackin** · 06-21-2004, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by singern

Israel is the legitimate sovereign nation of the Jewish people, located in scenic middle east between the Jordan and the Mediterranean. It has been there forever and will remain forever. Get a life and get over it.

As usual bro.....well said...

OG

**Mart651** · 06-21-2004, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN

Israel calls Hizbollah Terrorists, yet is frequently negotiates with Hizbollah. Even though they say they dont negotiate with Terrorists.

They don't negotiate with terrorist for kidnapped or highjacked people. This would only give a free ticket for stupid **** from those ignorant bastards.

I would slap them all with my shoe. Stupid ****s.

**CAUSASIAN** · 06-22-2004, 06:07 AM

Originally Posted by singern

Israel is the legitimate sovereign nation of the Jewish people, located in scenic middle east between the Jordan and the Mediterranean. It has been there forever and will remain forever. Get a life and get over it.

It has been there forever?

1948 + means forever?

Bye Bye Israel

The Jewish race does not have the capability to retain a state for a long period of time, 50 years fine, 100 fine, 200 fine, 200+ highly unlikely. This is not racist, its based on historic fact.

They are bound to turn on each other, and get overrun by the Arab Youth Population explosion. Maybe when the Russians calm down a bit, the Chechan Youth can help our Palestinian brothers.

**CAUSASIAN** · 06-22-2004, 06:17 AM

Originally Posted by Umberto

CAUCASIAN
are you from Chechnya?
A rebel fighter?

Maybe you can start a thread explaining the troubles in Chechnya. Im not too familiar. Please tell me it is about land and not insane Muslim radicals.

I will make a thread about Chechnya soon. One of the oldest warrior peoples in the world.