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  1. #1
    Pete235's Avatar
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    Big or symetrical

    I know a lot of you do not follow the sport of bodybuilding, but what are your opinions regarding the direction the sport has taken. In the past it was about balance, symetry and muscle shape. Nowadays it is about freaky size and razor cuts with paper thin skin. Aesthetics do not seem to matter anymore. Is the sport heading in a dangerous dirction or is this just natural progression (better training, better drugs, etc...)? BTW here's a pic of two of the bigger guys on todays pro circuit...Paul Dillet (Canada) and Marcus Ruhl (Germany)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Big or symetrical-marcus-paul.jpg  

  2. #2
    ptbyjason Guest
    I think they are just big, not symetrical. I think Flex Wheeler is probably closest to one of the past bodybuilders who still maintain some type of symetry today.

  3. #3
    Pete235's Avatar
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    I agree Jay...I also have to put Shawn Ray in the symetrical category along with Milos Sarcev (if he comes in lighter than 235lbs). But the majority of the others are just monsterous dinosaurs.

  4. #4
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    i think both elements are equally important. if you're talking solely about symmetry, then i'm sure some of the smaller guys, the 190 lb'ers, have even better symmerty than Shawn Ray and Sarcev. probably the most symmetrical man ever to BB was Frank Zane, and he was only 185 lbs! freaky monsters like Ruhl and Greg Kovacs (muscle-tech man) will never be champs. others, who combine size and symmetry, Coleman, Orville Burke, Levrone, and Cormier have been rising up. if size was all that mattered, then Kovacs, who competes at 350 lbs would be mr olympia. instead, he can't even qualify.

  5. #5
    Pete235's Avatar
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    Dane, I agree that Frank Zane was awsome. Good call on the others as well...but recently even Chris Cormier has been sacrificing shape for size. He routinly walks on stage at around 260lbs where as 2 years ago he was competeing at 240lbs. You still have guys with shape like Dexter Jackson and Darrem Charles but the new crop of guys seem to be going for that all or nothing look...King Kamali, Dennis James, Tom Prince and Craig Titus. Titus looked really good when he won the NPC's but he knew he didn't have the complete package needed to be a top 5 finisher at the Olympia. So after a brief stint in the big house he hit the gear HARD went for mass and know he looks bloated...can't control that GH belly. He actually makes things exciting by stirring up the pot and antagonizing the likes of Melvin Anthony and Kamali so overall I think he's good for the sport. I know he's your boy Dane so I won't dis him.
    Pete
    Last edited by Pete235; 09-21-2001 at 06:45 AM.

  6. #6
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    Look at todays BB compared to the likes of Haney Arnie Zane they are gigantic freaks
    I agree with you guys in todays line up I think Wheeler Ray and Sarcev look very good and have good muscle mass with symentry.The others are monsters,for me its about symentry thats what should win Mr O not size but with the likes of the Mr O is at the moment the smallers guys don,t get a look in

    JMO Billy

  7. #7
    Pete235's Avatar
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    This comin from a guy that has Dorian Yates as his avatar!! J/K Bro...Dorian is my favorite of all time. Have you ever seen his "Blood and Guts" training video? The man trains balls to the wall all the time...nobody worked harder. That's why he won so many Olympias. He didn't have the asthetically pleasing proportions like Lee Haney but he was always big, hard and ultra shredded. Another competitor I forgot to mention is Lee Preist. The guy is only 5'4" but carries 220lbs of shredded beef onto a contest stage and tips the scales at close to 300lbs in the offseason. Just look at Mike's avatar.
    Pete

  8. #8
    Pete235's Avatar
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    Maybe it should be Ronnie Swoleman
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Big or symetrical-2000_worldqualifier_coleman.jpg  

  9. #9
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    Hey no flaming Dorian he was big and shredded I thought he always looked good

    Smaller guys still look good thats all I was saying-LOL

    Billy

  10. #10
    Pete235's Avatar
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    Brotha man...I was just messin with ya, Dorian is my all time favorite. The only reason I don't have him as my avatar is because you and Big Al beat me to it. I was to dumb to figure out how to add an avatar So I chose Nasser El Sonbaty who was the only guy who gave Dorian a challenge (mass and muscularity) during his Olympia reign.
    Pete

  11. #11
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    Yep Nasser is a big guy as well I always liked Eddie Robinson thought he looked good

    Billy

  12. #12
    Mike Guest
    yup - lee Priest I have MUCH respect for - I think his body is incredible - but to be honest ya'll I dont care much for anyone in the comp circuits - I like size and definition and symmetry but I really like the human form - I have so much respect for it - and while it's nice to look at Lee Priest and respect the work he has obviously done - it's impossible to look at him as though he he represents the human form - ya know what i mean? Ronnie etc are impressive dont get me wrong - but they have taken it past a genetic level to the point where you're not appreciating the human form anymore because that is not the natural disposition of the human form - the avatar on here I like the most is probably Dane26's - dont know who he is - I guess what i am saying is my confession is that I am more into powerlifting and just insane mass than I am oils, fake tans 2.5%bf etc etc - I dont want that personally - I JUST WANT TO BE A FUCKING TANK. (I admire guys like Grant Pitts) let the flames begin.....

    Kinda funny - when I started lifting here were my goals - as though you were interested

    First - I wanted to look good in a tank top in public - like I had some muscle and that people would look at me different.

    Second - I wanted to look good in a regular T-shirt - that you could tell I was a big guy even with the t-shirt on

    Third - I wanted to look good in a sweater - long pants and sweater - not trying to show anything off but people know I'm a big mother fucker anyway

    Fourth - I wanted to be able to wear a suit to work and have people STILL know that underneath I was big as fuck

    Those were my goals - just felt like rambling here

  13. #13
    Pete235's Avatar
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    What in the hell do you need a sweater and long pants for? Livin in sunny Southern Cal...pppffttt!! Listen buddy, if you want to get full use out of that sweater and pants come visit me in February. You can wear it under an insulated Gortex jacket and help me shovel my big ass driveway.

    I actually have goals similar to yours Mike. I want to be big and lean and have people know I bust my ass in the gym regardless of what I'm wearing (well it's hard to see muscles through my moose fur parka). As far as BB goes I'm a fan and I want to compete once or twice just to say I did it. I have no illusions about winning a pro card...god knows I don't have an extra $60-70,000 to spend on gear for a year.

    I'm quite sure Danes avatar is Craig Titus.

    Pete
    Last edited by Pete235; 09-21-2001 at 01:41 PM.

  14. #14
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    my avatar is craig titus. i just have a soft spot in my heart for the big guys. every sport has evolved from years in the past, with big guys being the "in" thing. 250 lb quaterbacks, punters benching 500 lbs, and baseball guys with muscles ripping through thier shirts. it's not a knock on the old time bodybuilders, it's a compliment. they were bigger than those before them and the BB's of 10 yrs from now will be even bigger. i agree with Pete that cormier is way too round. that's why i don't think he'll place high. i think that ronnie has a good combo of shape and size, and that's why he wins. when it's all said and done, the guys who do the best job of combining size and shape will prevail. coleman, levrone, dennis james, and one of my new favs, orville burke. like i said before, guys like gunter schierkamp, markus ruhl and greg kovacs will never be champs. the same holds true for guys like flex and shawn ray. they're just too small (by olympia standards)

  15. #15
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    PROS LIKE RONNIE COLEMAN IS JUST TOO BIG FOR ME TO LIKE. PROS LIKE STAN MCQUAY IS PERFECT IN SIZE.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Big or symetrical-11061397-68cb-01110200-.jpg  

  16. #16
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    We can throw symetry out the window with today's bodybuilders. Guy's like Ronnie, Cormier, Ruhl and Dillet all look too round. Ronnie's gut and Ruhl's synthol shoulders are just not appealing to me. Genetic freaks they are but look unhealthy. I would rather look like Arnie, Zane, Scott, Columbo, Haney and others rather then what's out there today.

  17. #17
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    I think you need all 3 size, conditioning and symatry, however, i think too high % is given for size and not enought for other two. Look at guy from spain, huge, but no shape no anything, they did dump him at O. I would like to see a happy medium, my favoirite time for bodybuilding was Lee Haney's time, guys like bob pairs, Lee L, etc... they have enought size, but also had great shape.

  18. #18
    Full Intensity's Avatar
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    Originally posted by silverfox
    I think you need all 3 size, conditioning and symatry, however, i think too high % is given for size and not enought for other two. Look at guy from spain, huge, but no shape no anything, they did dump him at O. I would like to see a happy medium, my favoirite time for bodybuilding was Lee Haney's time, guys like bob pairs, Lee L, etc... they have enought size, but also had great shape.
    can't argue with that one

  19. #19
    Carlos_E's Avatar
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    Big really doesn't impress me. I feel like with enough gear and proper training anyone can get big. What really impresses me is body line and symmetry. Even though he was small compared to some of the other guys, I thought Wheeler looked incredible at the Olympia.

  20. #20
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    I also dont care too much about being big, being big doesnt take any scientific approach, but to be symetrical is something else. Ronnie coleman is just big but its not impressive. I would rather be symetrical and have everything in perfect preportion than just be a big mess. thats JMHO

  21. #21
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    I have to admit I like the freaks but I think BB needs to come back to a more symetrical approach mainly for the safety of the contestants. I think we all know this sport has begun to reach a dangerous place. I think we will see a lot more serious health problems and premature deaths with this new group of BB then ever before. It is only a matter of time before people start keeling over with the effort to achieve the next level of size.

  22. #22
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    i personally don't like the way modern day bodybuilders look. i wouldn't want to look like them for anything. i like steve reeves, schwarzenegger (and others of his era), stan mcquay, people like that. they look good, not gross...just my opinion.

    -- clocky baby

  23. #23
    silverfox's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Rickson
    I have to admit I like the freaks but I think BB needs to come back to a more symetrical approach mainly for the safety of the contestants. I think we all know this sport has begun to reach a dangerous place. I think we will see a lot more serious health problems and premature deaths with this new group of BB then ever before. It is only a matter of time before people start keeling over with the effort to achieve the next level of size.
    Good point will be interesting to see where some of these guys are at in 10-20 years, I truly beleive some are BIG BIG users and some w/ the genetics are moderate, but time will tell for sure! IMO most of winners are not the ones using the most.

  24. #24
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    I dunno... I'm not much of a follower of the BB personalities scene myself but from the pics posted here when I look at Dillett and Ruhl the first thing that comes to mind is "freak" or "monster"... in a sideshow kinda way.

    I mean don't get me wrong, I realize the tremendous amount of work that was needed to get there, but it's just so far beyond normality that it doesn't register on my radar. There is no way a normal person would want to or even could look like that.

    On the other hand I look at Stan McQuay and my first reaction is "niiiiice" and I get the impression that with a lot of hard work, a normal person could achieve a similar look.

    My 2 cents worth of course

    Red

  25. #25
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    I will go with symetry (as that's the only thing i got going on...), then conditioning and size last but nor least, like said above the combination of all 3 is needed to be really successful in this sport...XXL
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  26. #26
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    i miss the days of arnie and franco...those were sum bodies, people like ruhl and coleman are just big walking hunks of meat...sorry but it just MHO

  27. #27
    physio_sport is offline Banned
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    i like the big look. but i do think you need to be quite symetrical also it make your body look better. i hate the un-symetrical abs that most bodybuilders have. my favorate body builder is Ernie Taylor i think hes big and symetrical also love the triceps.
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  28. #28
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    Symmetry!

    I'd like to see a guy like Shawn Ray win the "O" but it won't happen with the current judging.

  29. #29
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    Originally posted by Red Ketchup
    I dunno... I'm not much of a follower of the BB personalities scene myself but from the pics posted here when I look at Dillett and Ruhl the first thing that comes to mind is "freak" or "monster"... in a sideshow kinda way.
    My sentiments exactly

  30. #30
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    For me personally i don't like the look of the pro's. I have tons of respect for them but they're just TOO BIg and limited to what they can do. Because i'm heavy into martial arts my purpose for training is for maximum production of speed and strength without sacrificing flexability. When i bulk up it affects heavy on the way i preform so i try to stay light and eat clean all year round which is alot harder than takingg an off-season to eat whhatever i want and bloat up.

  31. #31
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    ruhl is a freeky lookin piece of work, he has no neck. in the picture dillet doesnt look that bad, he has some height to him. I m going with the symetical approach, i dont like the out of proportion look where it is just to freeky big.

  32. #32
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    what about kevin levrone? i'd say he has symmetry and mass and conditioning. I think he should definitely have a sandow by now. I think the freaks have their place, but its messed up when a distended belly like colemans takes first place over levrone or gunter. oh, and those unsymmetrical abs on pros are nasty.

  33. #33
    guest589745 is offline 2/3 Deca 1/3 Test
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    Quote Originally Posted by aquaray
    PROS LIKE RONNIE COLEMAN IS JUST TOO BIG FOR ME TO LIKE. PROS LIKE STAN MCQUAY IS PERFECT IN SIZE.
    Yea, he's "natural" *winks* suuuuure.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skullsmasher
    Yea, he's "natural" *winks* suuuuure.
    Dude this thread is OLD...

  35. #35
    collar's Avatar
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    i dont mind the big look...
    it takes alot of work to get to the size their at...
    saying that i do like the body of dexter alot its just very nice..
    looks like his been carved up...

    ronnie all the way
    for me between ronnie and cutler ronnie always comes in harder than cutler thats just in my opinion..

  36. #36
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    why do some people revisit and bring up the oldest thread. but yeah i like dexters physique alot more.

  37. #37
    SABAGOY is offline Junior Member
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    Damn...Dillet was a monster...wish i followed the sport more when he was competing

  38. #38
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    Im gonna go with symmetry....I think troy alves has an ideal look for what BB'ers shoudl look like today..jhonny jackson as well

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by aquaray
    PROS LIKE RONNIE COLEMAN IS JUST TOO BIG FOR ME TO LIKE. PROS LIKE STAN MCQUAY IS PERFECT IN SIZE.
    He is too small. I like big bodybuilder. Size does matter

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