Handguns for play, and personal protection.

**ColdSore** · 08-27-2004, 08:20 PM

Ive got a lot of various rifles, shotguns ect...but since im 21 now and i can own my own handgun and get my conceled carrying license i would like to purchase one...

Im pretty sure i want it chambered in 9mm so i can buy cheap bulk reloads so princess and i can practice with it, and use it for some fun target shooting w/o paying out the ass for ammo...maybe 40s&w???

Ive looked at glocks, but not sure about the quality....

I really like the rugar models...the p95 seems to be pretty reasonable...and i know there rifles are great quaity b/c i own one, and my dad owns another...great guns...

But theyre are so many makers and modles out there i would like to get you guys opinion...

*and if you can post websites i can look at and compare pricing ect*

**juicehoe** · 08-27-2004, 08:23 PM

my friend just got a glock 27 the other day... he is very pleased with it. Im not really into the 9mm's, so i cant really help ya.

**ColdSore** · 08-27-2004, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by juicehoe

my friend just got a glock 27 the other day... he is very pleased with it. Im not really into the 9mm's, so i cant really help ya.

well what do you like???...thats why im asking...all of my dads semi auto pistols have been .22 caliber playguns...but he had a smith and wesson .38 snubby for protection, and a smith and wesson .44 for hunting loaded down with a red dot scope ect...

so i dont really know what i want???

i just know 9mm target loads, and reloads seem to be the cheapest...and has decent knockdown if i need it...

you can also get modles that are about the same gun, just a diff caliber...so tell me what modles, brands, ect, you like if you want

**Soldier of Misfortune** · 08-27-2004, 08:34 PM

Beretta 92FS is an extremely reliable pistol. Very smooth action and holds 15 in clip and one in the pipe. I want to get one when im 21. Also a Colt 1911 .45 nickel plated/wood grips.

**ColdSore** · 08-27-2004, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by Soldier of Misfortune

Beretta 92FS is an extremely reliable pistol. Very smooth action and holds 15 in clip and one in the pipe. I want to get one when im 21. Also a Colt 1911 .45 nickel plated/wood grips.

what type of priced tag come on a new to used baretta???...if they are anything like there shotguns i bet its outta my range?

**ColdSore** · 08-27-2004, 08:37 PM

anyone got any horror stories with a glock fukkin up on em???...and also about parts, and craftmanship

**Musa** · 08-27-2004, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by ColdStone

Ive got a lot of various rifles, shotguns ect...but since im 21 now and i can own my own handgun and get my conceled carrying license i would like to purchase one...

Im pretty sure i want it chambered in 9mm so i can buy cheap bulk reloads so princess and i can practice with it, and use it for some fun target shooting w/o paying out the ass for ammo...maybe 40s&w???

Ive looked at glocks, but not sure about the quality....

I really like the rugar models...the p95 seems to be pretty reasonable...and i know there rifles are great quaity b/c i own one, and my dad owns another...great guns...

But theyre are so many makers and modles out there i would like to get you guys opinion...

*and if you can post websites i can look at and compare pricing ect*

Get a tokarev TT. 7.62x25

Swellin · 08-27-2004, 08:44 PM

It all depends on what you want from it. I don't like 9mm that much, but it works. A well placed shot with one will do the trick. People are either Glock fans or Glock haters...there is no middle ground. I won a couple of them and I like them. The quality is certainly there, they are as tough as you will find. I have tricked out the two that I have with custom internals to make them more user friendly.
Neither of my Glocks are small enough to be very viable for concealed carry. I have the 17L and the 20.

At the risk of offending any Ruger pistol owners....stay away, they are cheap for a reason. I own several Ruger rifles, including an array of tricked out 10/22 rifles...some costing over 1k without optics. I also have a very rare Ruger six gun in an obscure caliber....but it is in my collection due to its obscure nature...not it's handling or shootability.

IMHO, the two top names in semi auto handguns (aside from the myriad of 1911 custom jobs) are Sig and HK. The Federal Air Marshals rely on the Sig. I know a FAM with over 10k rounds logged in his duty weapon, with only one FTF, coming from an odd shooting position from the wrong hand.

Rather than go with the .40, take a look at the .357 Sig. This is a .40S&W case necked down to a .357 bullet. It is quite a round!

For concealed carry, and ease of use for female (or anybody really), a Sig 232 is an excellent choice. Even though it is essentially a 9mm short (.380), it still has the capacity to stop an attacker...permanantly. it is small enough to carry easily, and is one hell of a shooter. I had one for a short period of time (I wish I still did), and shooting at 30-35 yards, it was pretty easy to keep an entire magazine in an 8" metal plate. I'm no marksman with a pistol either, so this means alot to me.
Here is a link to the 232, and you can look around on the site for other Sig pistols.
http://www.sigarms.com/products/clas...?product_id=42

HK also makes a fine line of pistols for protection. Don't rule them out.

The bottom line is that you truly get what you pay for. There are bargain priced weapons that perform very well. However if my life depends on it, I would prefer to have a solid company supporting the product I am using...rather than an extra 200 bucks in my pocket.

**ColdSore** · 08-27-2004, 08:52 PM

ok swellin that helps a ton....

the 380 is an option too...princess could handle that pretty well...

let me here how you would answer this though...you have 400 tops for a budget, and want something as relible/dependable as you can get for 400 bukks, and made by a solid company that will back there work if i have a problem in the initial stages of breaking it in???

list a few if you want...just interested in what you would pick...

also...what about taurus???, and CK???

**Soldier of Misfortune** · 08-27-2004, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by ColdStone

what type of priced tag come on a new to used baretta???...if they are anything like there shotguns i bet its outta my range?

Berettas are usualy more expensive than other pistols. I did a quick check and the average is around $550 new. You might be able to find a used one for $350-$400.

**ColdSore** · 08-27-2004, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by Soldier of Misfortune

Berettas are usualy more expensive than other pistols. I did a quick check and the average is around $550 new. You might be able to find a used one for $350-$400.

nice...thanks for looking for me...

where did you look at???...any good sites???...alot ive found dont have priceing

LORDBLiTZ · 08-27-2004, 09:02 PM

Walther P99

**juicehoe** · 08-27-2004, 09:14 PM

Thats a nice pistol... i have one as well. If your looking for cheap rounds then the 9mm is your best bet. One of my favorite guns i have is my 1911 colt .45, but rounds aint cheap for that gun.

Originally Posted by ColdStone

but he had a smith and wesson .38 snubby

**BDTR** · 08-27-2004, 09:27 PM

HK USP compact .45. Best carry gun i ever owned.

**BDTR** · 08-27-2004, 09:39 PM

and HK stands by their moto 100%

In a world of compromise, some men don't

**BDTR** · 08-27-2004, 09:44 PM

This is sort of a handgun

http://gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=21883897

I'm buying one in a couple weeks. **** 200 dollar stamps.

Swellin · 08-27-2004, 09:47 PM

Okay, I have owned both Taurus and Beretta, but I never plan to own either of them again...not in an auto pistol anyway. Beretta shotguns are sweet, but their pistols are crap. Taurus is a cheap version of a Beretta, so it is worse.

This is just my opinion, based on my experience with these weapons.

As for a good gun in the 400 dollar range, you are probably going to need to bump it up a bit and still buy a good used gun.
Here are a couple of links where you can find guns on the internet...they are auction sites like ebay, but the real good deals on ebay...are not here. You get pretty good deals, just no steals.

http://www.auctionarms.com/

http://www.gunbroker.com

http://www.gunsamerica.com/

You can find a used Sig, Glock, or HK for a reasonable price. It all depends on how fast you want it. Take a little time and decide exactly what you want first. Pay more the first time, so you won't have to lose money trading it for something else later. Go to an indoor gunrange where they rent pistols to shoot in the ranges. You can really get a much better idea of what you want by popping a few caps.

A word on caliber.

The 9mm is a tame round, easy for anyone to shoot. The .40 is much hotter, and much harder to handle. The .45 is quite possibly the best defensive round in existance, but it can be one hell of a handful to shoot. The .357 Sig is faster than the .40, but due to the lower bullet weight, its recoil is much more manageable. The .380 gives up a great deal in the "ass" department, but anybody can handle a .380 in the proper firearm. This is certainly a caliber where money really matters. There are only two .380s in existance that I would even consider...the Sig 232 and the Walther PPK.

Go shoot some of these things. Talk to the guys at the local gunshops and tell them what you are doing. Don't be fooled into listening to their BS about something they have on hand...they have to sell guns to keep the bills paid, if you get my drift. The thing is, they usually give you good info (I'm not talking about Wal-Mart or Dick's either). Go to a real gun store, where gun nuts work. They might be able to point you in the right direction for a a shooting range and gun rental outfit. Try before you buy....if at all possible. By that I mean you need to get some trigger time with the potentialbrands and models before deciding where to spend the money.

Swellin · 08-27-2004, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by bdtr

This is sort of a handgun

http://gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=21883897

I'm buying one in a couple weeks. **** 200 dollar stamps.

What about the BATFE background check? Were your priors expunged?

I have been through a couple of these BG checks, and it takes 4-6 months after they get your photos and fingerprints and 200 clams.

Have you already checked with your chief law enforcement officer? The paperwork requires the signature of either the Chief of Police, or the Sheriff....and they don't have to give it if they don't like you.

Just a word to the wise, before buying the thing and then getting treated poorly by the CLEO's.

**BDTR** · 08-27-2004, 09:59 PM

My record was expunged when i was 21 years old, all it takes is a good lawyer and if you dont have a murder rap, its just money.

As for the chief of police, its no problem. I'm a good law obiding citizen that already legally owns class 3 weapons. I went through all this when i bought my MP5 (biggest pain in the ass to buy of all time, took a full 6 months!)

Originally Posted by Swellin

What about the BATFE background check? Were your priors expunged?

I have been through a couple of these BG checks, and it takes 4-6 months after they get your photos and fingerprints and 200 clams.

Have you already checked with your chief law enforcement officer? The paperwork requires the signature of either the Chief of Police, or the Sheriff....and they don't have to give it if they don't like you.

Just a word to the wise, before buying the thing and then getting treated poorly by the CLEO's.

**Bryan2** · 08-27-2004, 10:33 PM

you gotta be 21 to purchase a hand gun?
is there no way around this?

Swellin · 08-27-2004, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by bdtr

My record was expunged when i was 21 years old, all it takes is a good lawyer and if you dont have a murder rap, its just money.

As for the chief of police, its no problem. I'm a good law obiding citizen that already legally owns class 3 weapons. I went through all this when i bought my MP5 (biggest pain in the ass to buy of all time, took a full 6 months!)

Very cool. I have a couple of NFA items as well, and it is a real pain in the ass to jump through the hoops. If you get one NFA item and then apply for a second one within 90 days, you are able to get it much faster. They are only required to do the most recent 90 days in that situation. If it goes 91 days...they have to do the whole thing over. Just a little FYI, for your next purchase...go ahead and set up the next one to be handled within 90 days of the street sweeper. If that isn't a good excuse to buy another one fast, i don't know what is.

Swellin · 08-27-2004, 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by Bryan2

you gotta be 21 to purchase a hand gun?
is there no way around this?

Will your father or older brother buy it and give it to you for your birthday?
No matter what, you cannot carry it if you are not 21, because you can't get the license.

In most states, long guns can be purchased at age 18, while handguns can only be purchased by a 21 year old.

**ColdSore** · 08-27-2004, 11:12 PM

thanks for the info swellin...im gonna go shop around to some places here, and back home also...and maybe in the austin area...this isnt something i have to have right away, but just something ive been thinking about for a while...it would be fun to have, but would also be good to have for safety...ya just never know...

**Philliagorillia** · 08-27-2004, 11:32 PM

There is alot of gun threads lately, anywho I carry my colt commander .45 with me sometimes, depends on where im going though. But i will have a .50 cal desert eagle soon to go with my .50 cal rifle hehe...

**chicamahomico** · 08-28-2004, 09:32 AM

You guys can buy this sh*t

......I'm so getting a green card!!

Originally Posted by bdtr

This is sort of a handgun

http://gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=21883897

I'm buying one in a couple weeks. **** 200 dollar stamps.

**Elysium** · 08-28-2004, 09:43 AM

Sorry but its so typical of you Americans. Why do you need a gun for, seriously, woohoo im 21 lets get a concealed weapon. The thing is, if you carry a gun you are more likely to want to shoot someone, the temptation is there. I just think the fact that you guys have, or intend to buy guns represents your whole nations motive, and your presidents.

**decadbal** · 08-28-2004, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by MESSY_UK

Sorry but its so typical of you Americans. Why do you need a gun for, seriously, woohoo im 21 lets get a concealed weapon. The thing is, if you carry a gun you are more likely to want to shoot someone, the temptation is there. I just think the fact that you guys have, or intend to buy guns represents your whole nations motive, and your presidents.

well if it werent for our guns and prez your country would be speakin german, so sit down and shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

**Elysium** · 08-28-2004, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by Decadbal

well if it werent for our guns and prez your country would be speakin german, so sit down and shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

There we go the americans thinking they won the war again. How many gun related incidents are there in the USA compared to the UK? Take note, Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

**Doc M** · 08-28-2004, 10:05 AM

Tread carefully into this territory UK..If you start bashing our president and country, your day is going to turn south here..ANd as far as people wanting to buy a handgun..It's there constitutional right and you obviously have never lived here in a large metropolitan area..If so, the concept of wnating and having a handgun would make a lot more sense to you..

Doc M

Originally Posted by MESSY_UK

Sorry but its so typical of you Americans. Why do you need a gun for, seriously, woohoo im 21 lets get a concealed weapon. The thing is, if you carry a gun you are more likely to want to shoot someone, the temptation is there. I just think the fact that you guys have, or intend to buy guns represents your whole nations motive, and your presidents.

**Elysium** · 08-28-2004, 10:08 AM

LMAO never lived in a large metropolitan area?! Lol u mean ive never lived in the USA? I live in London, and trust me its got its fair share of crime.

The whole of the USA seems trigger happy, the people, the president. WHY do you need a handgun? Simple, coz other people have handguns, but why do they have handguns? Simple, coz everyone else has them. Why not outlaw handguns? There is NO reason for civilans to need handguns. NO reason.

**BDTR** · 08-28-2004, 10:14 AM

I want a handgun simply because the government has handguns. I want an assualt rifle simply because the government has assualt rifles. Very simply put, i will murder with extreme prejudice anyone who physically attemps to come into my house without my consent. Be it crackheads or US military, they'd both die equally as bloody on my door step.

As for your idea to outlaw handguns to stop gun violence. How are you going to outlaw guns that are not registered and already outlawed? You know? The ones that young "urban" youth take on drive bys with them. If it wasn't guns, it'd be crossbows, if it wasn't crossbows it'd be bow and arrows and if it wasn't a bow and arrow it would be a stone. Killing is natural, and in a country such as America where there is such a diversity of people, **** is bound to happen. The melting pot boiled over and spilled out poverty and crime.

**FRANK WHITE** · 08-28-2004, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by Swellin

It all depends on what you want from it. I don't like 9mm that much, but it works. A well placed shot with one will do the trick. People are either Glock fans or Glock haters...there is no middle ground. I won a couple of them and I like them. The quality is certainly there, they are as tough as you will find. I have tricked out the two that I have with custom internals to make them more user friendly.
Neither of my Glocks are small enough to be very viable for concealed carry. I have the 17L and the 20.

At the risk of offending any Ruger pistol owners....stay away, they are cheap for a reason. I own several Ruger rifles, including an array of tricked out 10/22 rifles...some costing over 1k without optics. I also have a very rare Ruger six gun in an obscure caliber....but it is in my collection due to its obscure nature...not it's handling or shootability.

IMHO, the two top names in semi auto handguns (aside from the myriad of 1911 custom jobs) are Sig and HK. The Federal Air Marshals rely on the Sig. I know a FAM with over 10k rounds logged in his duty weapon, with only one FTF, coming from an odd shooting position from the wrong hand.

Rather than go with the .40, take a look at the .357 Sig. This is a .40S&W case necked down to a .357 bullet. It is quite a round!

For concealed carry, and ease of use for female (or anybody really), a Sig 232 is an excellent choice. Even though it is essentially a 9mm short (.380), it still has the capacity to stop an attacker...permanantly. it is small enough to carry easily, and is one hell of a shooter. I had one for a short period of time (I wish I still did), and shooting at 30-35 yards, it was pretty easy to keep an entire magazine in an 8" metal plate. I'm no marksman with a pistol either, so this means alot to me.
Here is a link to the 232, and you can look around on the site for other Sig pistols.
http://www.sigarms.com/products/clas...?product_id=42

HK also makes a fine line of pistols for protection. Don't rule them out.

The bottom line is that you truly get what you pay for. There are bargain priced weapons that perform very well. However if my life depends on it, I would prefer to have a solid company supporting the product I am using...rather than an extra 200 bucks in my pocket.

Very well stated Swellin. I have experience with many types of handguns and Swellin summed up the situation very nice. A glock in my opinion should not be used by somebody with little handgun experience and use, because of its lack of external safety. Sigs are great, and so are HK's,j but as Swellin stated, they are expensive, but you get what you pay for. I'd definitely go with at least a .40 cal. 9's work but why go with less knockdown power when you don't have to. I'd personally go with a .45. One of my favorite handguns I've owned is a Par-Ordanance P-14 limited. Its a 1911 frame with a 14 round mag in 45 auto. A very nice gun, and unbelievably accurate. Best of luck bro.

**Sierra_Breeze** · 08-28-2004, 10:17 AM

Coldstone, I'd say if you want a gun for playing around, an auto would do just fine, however if you are looking for one for self protection I'd highly recomend that you get a revolver.

I don't mean to step on anyones toes or diss any firearm but, I have seen too many autos jam up while just shooting for the heck of it, in a real life situation where your life depends on the weapon firing without jamming up, by the time you rectify the situation you will already be dead.

Just giving you something to think about.

I love to play around with the hubbies .45 auto but when my life is at steak I'll stick to my lil .357 revolver.

**Elysium** · 08-28-2004, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by bdtr

I want a handgun simply because the government has handguns. I want an assualt rifle simply because the government has assualt rifles. Very simply put, i will murder with extreme prejudice anyone who physically attemps to come into my house without my consent. Be it crackheads or US military, they'd both die equally as bloody on my door step.

As for your idea to outlaw handguns to stop gun violence. How are you going to outlaw guns that are not registered and already outlawed? You know? The ones that young "urban" youth take on drive bys with them. If it wasn't guns, it'd be crossbows, if it wasn't crossbows it'd be bow and arrows and if it wasn't a bow and arrow it would be a stone. Killing is natural, and in a country such as America where there is such a diversity of people, **** is bound to happen. The melting pot boiled over and spilled out poverty and crime.

WTF are you on? Crack?! Crossbows? Arrows? WTF?! If ANY of what you just said was true how come the UK has one of the lowest gun crime rates in the world and why arent we all running around with bows and arrows?

I make a very valid point and i dont think you or any one else can accept that.

**BDTR** · 08-28-2004, 10:23 AM

What im getting at is your crime rate is lower simply because your country is almost entirely English. In America you have so many nationalities and races clashing, you have poverty, you have 1000's of illegal people in here with 1000's more coming every week. Our country is on the verge of self destruction.

BTW, it stands to reason if there are no guns in a country, the crime rate for such an item would quite possibly have a great drop. Nice observation dip****.

Originally Posted by MESSY_UK

WTF are you on? Crack?! Crossbows? Arrows? WTF?! If ANY of what you just said was true how come the UK has one of the lowest gun crime rates in the world and why arent we all running around with bows and arrows?

I make a very valid point and i dont think you or any one else can accept that.

**Elysium** · 08-28-2004, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by bdtr

What im getting at is your crime rate is lower simply because your country is almost entirely English. In America you have so many nationalities and races clashing, you have poverty, you have 1000's of illegal people in here with 1000's more coming every week. Our country is on the verge of self destruction.

BTW, it stands to reason if there are no guns in a country, the crime rate for such an item would quite possibly have a great drop. Nice observation dip****.

OK, dip ****. Now that you understood the part where if there is no guns there is no gun crime how about you imagine if the USA had no guns?

I dont think this is getting through to any of you. If America continues the way it is at the moment it will not last long. AT ALL.

**Sierra_Breeze** · 08-28-2004, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by MESSY_UK

WTF are you on? Crack?! Crossbows? Arrows? WTF?! If ANY of what you just said was true how come the UK has one of the lowest gun crime rates in the world and why arent we all running around with bows and arrows?

I make a very valid point and i dont think you or any one else can accept that.

I'm not gonna argue with you, I'm also not gonna agree with you, however you seem to be under the impression that we are all just a bunch of vigilanties running about trying to find any oppertunity to use a firearm in a crime. This isn't the case, I am just a simple house wife, I stick close to home, and have had my fill of threats and theives come in and take what my husband and myself have worked very hard to afford ourselves or our children and as Bdtr stated anyone uninvited will be treated to a new limp after their visit, or will be leaving in a body bag depending on what kind of mood I happen to be in at the time.
When someone comes creeping about your home in the dead of night they don't have the best intentions themselves, and I refuse to be a victim, as I see it there are no victims only volunteers.

**FRANK WHITE** · 08-28-2004, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by MESSY_UK

WTF are you on? Crack?! Crossbows? Arrows? WTF?! If ANY of what you just said was true how come the UK has one of the lowest gun crime rates in the world and why arent we all running around with bows and arrows?

I make a very valid point and i dont think you or any one else can accept that.

UK, guns have been and always will be a huge part of American society. Think Westerns, hollywood, etc. Its part of being American. Maybe the UK doesn't think of guns this way, but we do. Its our constitutional right to "Keep and Bear Arms". This was set forth by our founding fathers in part because of our war of independence with England. In theory, maybe the country would be safer without guns, but its to late for that now, so the arguement is really a mute point. England and Europe in general, have never romanced the gun and made it part of their identity as we Americans have, and thats ok, but criticizing a piece of our national heritage is like us taking shots at the way English culture seems to de-emphasize the need for dental care.

**Elysium** · 08-28-2004, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by Sierra_Breeze

I'm not gonna argue with you, I'm also not gonna agree with you, however you seem to be under the impression that we are all just a bunch of vigilanties running about trying to find any oppertunity to use a firearm in a crime. This isn't the case, I am just a simple house wife, I stick close to home, and have had my fill of threats and theives come in and take what my husband and myself have worked very hard to afford ourselves or our children and as Bdtr stated anyone uninvited will be treated to a new limp after their visit, or will be leaving in a body bag depending on what kind of mood I happen to be in at the time.
When someone comes creeping about your home in the dead of night they don't have the best intentions themselves, and I refuse to be a victim, as I see it there are no victims only volunteers.

You act like ure waiting for an attack. I think its hilarious, i can imagine a knock on the door and you lot diving for your weapons. The whole country is filled with trigger happy idiots. The USA has a cival war going on, between its people, but there wont be a side that wins. You will all just end up killing yourselfs. Trust me, at some point in the future your society will see the errors in their ways. And become alot more tolerant to others. Either that or you will all just fade away, and no one will remember America.

**Elysium** · 08-28-2004, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by FRANK WHITE

UK, guns have been and always will be a huge part of American society. Think Westerns, hollywood, etc. Its part of being American. Maybe the UK doesn't think of guns this way, but we do. Its our constitutional right to "Keep and Bear Arms". This was set forth by our founding fathers in part because of our war of independence with England. In theory, maybe the country would be safer without guns, but its to late for that now, so the arguement is really a mute point. England and Europe in general, have never romanced the gun and made it part of their identity as we Americans have, and thats ok, but criticizing a piece of our national heritage is like us taking shots at the way English culture seems to de-emphasize the need for dental care.

Lol one part made me think.

The gun is part of your identity, the countrys heritage. Thats exactly why your country will not last, the fact that your society, heritage and identity is built around violence proves this.