Bush/Cheney tax plan

If W and Dick get their way this country will see the formation of an untaxed priveledged class based solely on who your parents were. First off the inheritance tax. The Republicans use the term "death tax" to vilify taxes on estates. Dead people cannot do anything but decompose. They cannot pay taxes. The ones being taxed are the heirs who did zero to accumulate the wealth they are recieving. Under Bush all heirs will be free from any taxation. Meanwhile work for $8.00/hr pay 15% payroll tax, 2 1/2% Medicare taxes 4-6% local taxes, add income taxes, sales taxes, gasoline taxes, etc. and pay an effective rate 0f over 30%. Now here's the kicker. Bush/Cheney et al would also exempt dividend and capital gains taxes. So... an heir to a billion dollar fortune could make a conservative return of 4%, $40 million dollars a year and pay not one dime of taxes. Of course their chefs, chaufers, maids, pilots and countless other servents will continue to pay a larger portion of there income towards federal taxes to protect their benefactors wealth.

The amazing thing is all the stupid middle to lower income people especially from the south who continue to vote for this pair of corporate lackies. So call me a liberal if you will, actually I'm more of a libertarian, but unless my income climbs into seven figures I find nothing appealing in the Republican Party. I will vote for Kerry with the complete knowledge he isn't much better but at least the current tax cuts (which are more of a tax deferral because the large deficits they created will have to be paid by my chidren) for the highest incomes will be eliminated relieving my kids of the burden of subsidizing the people who now control an unprecedented proportion of the assets in the USA. I don't buy the arguement that the top 10% pay 80% of the taxes as being a reason for chnging my view since they own 90% of the assets at 80% they are taxed 10% too low.

Now a pre-emptive reply to all those inclined to berate me or call me names in true Republican fashion. I earn 6 figures, have a degree, drive a new 2004$37,000 Dodge Hemi Durango SUV, my wife stays at home with the kids and I own a large home with accumulating equity. There are many Republicans who I admire, John McCain, Pat Buchannon, Arlen Spector to name a few and Democrats who are way too liberal for me. I bust my ass for everything I have and pay nearly 40% a year in cumulative taxes. It pisses me off that there is a potential for generations of tennis playing rich kids who will nevere have to work much less pay taxes. It just isn't right!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

well... taxes this election isnt a issue for me. Ive NEVER!!!!! seen my taxes drop...

scenerio : I get my check.. open it up, and find I only payed 5% federal.

That scenerio is a DREAM....

And the way kerry is flipping on issues... he'll probably INCREASE taxes if he gets into office.

And a question for a Kerry supporter... if he has a medicare/tax plan that will be so GREAT... why hasnt he introduced it into congress NOW to help the american people??

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Originally Posted by bigol'legs

well... taxes this election isnt a issue for me. Ive NEVER!!!!! seen my taxes drop...

scenerio : I get my check.. open it up, and find I only payed 5% federal.

That scenerio is a DREAM....

And the way kerry is flipping on issues... he'll probably INCREASE taxes if he gets into office.

And a question for a Kerry supporter... if he has a medicare/tax plan that will be so GREAT... why hasnt he introduced it into congress NOW to help the american people??

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Well, for one, the Senate is controlled by the Republicans. Second, there's no time to pass the bill. Thirdly, it's a campaign, you know how the game is played.

markas you hit the nail on the head. the rich get richer. its an issue people just dont fully understand. they hear bush talk about lowering taxes yet they dont realize that the 30 bucks he saves you a year is nothing compared to all the millions in capital gains tax that have been averted daily by so many wealthy. Yes kerry would prob raise taxes...... for the rich and upper middle class. taxes arent evil they keep the economy growing. just to let people know where im coming from i will be in the nations top income tax bracket within 6 yrs so it would behoove me to like bush's tax ideas, but im sorry i dont.

i paid about 15% or so in taxes last year, and thats full. oh yeah that was after i deduced everything i could. funny thing is that bushes tax plans like you have above id love to be in place. but i still will vote kerry. i hate bush, id like a person with over a 100 IQ to run this country

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Originally Posted by jcstomper

i paid about 15% or so in taxes last year, and thats full. oh yeah that was after i deduced everything i could. funny thing is that bushes tax plans like you have above id love to be in place. but i still will vote kerry. i hate bush, id like a person with over a 100 IQ to run this country

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:lol: I should have also said I believe family businesses, farms, etc. where the children actually participate should be exempeted. What people also don't realize is that the vast majority of estates are already tax exempt because the exemtion is $1.5 million. unfortunately the ingnorant masses are not aware of that and fall for the phony "death tax" propaganda.

On national security I have no trust in Bush either. He got us into a war in Iraq and tries to tie it to the real war with Islamic extremists. There wasn't a problem with Iraq and the Molem fanatics in Iraq until after we invaded. I could care less for Iraqi freedom when it comes at a cost of thousands of teenage American lives not to mention 100s of billions of dollars which we are also mpassing on to future generations. I'd rather see that money spent at home on education and border security.

Dividend and capital gains should not be taxed at all IMO. Reason is simple......tax has already been paid at the corporate level. It's unfair for the GVT to first tax a company on their corporate income, then tax their shareholders (assumed dividend payout) to whom they distribute part of that income becasue this revenue is effectively taxed twice.

Estate tax is also a crock. A taxpayer has spent her entire life earning income, consuming products, obtaining ownership of properties, investing outside of tax sheltered vehicles, all of which are heavily taxed and then upon her death the taxman deems her entire estate sold and then taxed at its present value.......if a person cannot see unfairness in this situation I don't think they would see it anywhere.

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Originally Posted by markas214

If W and Dick get their way this country will see the formation of an untaxed priveledged class based solely on who your parents were. First off the inheritance tax. The Republicans use the term "death tax" to vilify taxes on estates. Dead people cannot do anything but decompose. They cannot pay taxes. The ones being taxed are the heirs who did zero to accumulate the wealth they are recieving. Under Bush all heirs will be free from any taxation. Meanwhile work for $8.00/hr pay 15% payroll tax, 2 1/2% Medicare taxes 4-6% local taxes, add income taxes, sales taxes, gasoline taxes, etc. and pay an effective rate 0f over 30%. Now here's the kicker. Bush/Cheney et al would also exempt dividend and capital gains taxes. So... an heir to a billion dollar fortune could make a conservative return of 4%, $40 million dollars a year and pay not one dime of taxes. Of course their chefs, chaufers, maids, pilots and countless other servents will continue to pay a larger portion of there income towards federal taxes to protect their benefactors wealth.

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Are you sure? LOL j/k buds, maybe a little brush up......www.lp.org I have been promoting this party forever, to bad nobody listens LOL.

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Originally Posted by markas214

.....actually I'm more of a libertarian.....

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When someone leeches off their family it's both sad and pathetic IMO but the reality of the situation is that it's none of our business how a given family decides to spend it's money. Now when someone leeches off (or rips off) the taxpayer, that is another matter entirely. So long as the family in question obtained their wealth through legitimate and legal means (and paid taxes) who are we to care or criticize them for what they do with it?

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Originally Posted by markas214

It pisses me off that there is a potential for generations of tennis playing rich kids who will nevere have to work much less pay taxes. It just isn't right!

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Originally Posted by chicamahomico

Dividend and capital gains should not be taxed at all IMO. Reason is simple......tax has already been paid at the corporate level. It's unfair for the GVT to first tax a company on their corporate income, then tax their shareholders (assumed dividend payout) to whom they distribute part of that income becasue this revenue is effectively taxed twice. ]

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Large Firms Dodged Federal Taxes From 1996-2000 As Profits Soared

By JOHN D. MCKINNON, Wall Street Journal

WASHINGTON - More than 60% of U.S. corporations didn't pay any federal taxes for 1996 through 2000, years when the economy boomed and corporate profits soared, the investigative arm of Congress reported.

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Originally Posted by chicamahomico

Estate tax is also a crock. A taxpayer has spent her entire life earning income, consuming products, obtaining ownership of properties, investing outside of tax sheltered vehicles, all of which are heavily taxed and then upon her death the taxman deems her entire estate sold and then taxed at its present value.......if a person cannot see unfairness in this situation I don't think they would see it anywhere. ]

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They're f*cking dead. The whole idea of dead people being taxed is the "crock". The ones being taxed are the heirs who didn't spend their "entire life earning income, consuming products, obtaining ownership of properties, investing outside of tax sheltered vehicles, all of which are heavily taxed ". The only thing they did was be born into wealth. I find income for doing nothing to be just as taxable if not even more than income derived from working or investing. To quote you "if a person cannot see unfairness in this situation I don't think they would see it anywhere."

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Originally Posted by chicamahomico

When someone leeches off their family it's both sad and pathetic IMO but the reality of the situation is that it's none of our business how a given family decides to spend it's money. Now when someone leeches off (or rips off) the taxpayer, that is another matter entirely. So long as the family in question obtained their wealth through legitimate and legal means (and paid taxes) who are we to care or criticize them for what they do with it?

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So it's OK to have American Royalty exempt from any contribution to the nation's defense and upkeep of the infrastructure even though they benefit more than most? I cannot fathom any justification of the wealthy family heirs bearing no liability. In that case all the rest of us are subsidising those who are most capable of paying their share.

Any working class person who votes for BUSH is a complete idiot. Period.

He and his cronies are in it for one thing only: money. This means the corporation you work for will not be held accountable for sh*t, the CEO will give himself a 35 million dollar raise a year, and YOU will pay that CEO's taxes, if he doesn't figure out a way to make even MORE money by just laying your @ss off.

I'm sorry, but capitalism is one thing - giving corporations the right to do what ever the f*ck they want is another. If you look back in US history, the courts used to keep their thumb on them all the time - we had already seen what power corporations held in England. Sometime during Lincoln's administration, the supreme court decided that a corporation had the same rights as an individual. Lincoln predicted that "freedom would never have a chance if corporations become to powerful". They were ORIGINALLY created to serve the people. The same people that let them have their power should be working like hell to bring them down, and put them back in their place.

So, back on topic... I say, if you don't have enough money to make ends meet - F*ck Uncle Sam, and if you have more than enough, stop being such a goddam* pig and help out the world a little bit. To the rich, I say... Death will get even you in the end, so show a little fu*king humanity with your millions.

America was started as a place where we could all dream bigger dreams and work together to create a kind of freedom hitherto unknown in this world. And we have made great strides in that - but mark my words... George W. Bush would like to watch your poor ass rot from the vista of his gated community. He doesn't care about anything but his dynasty. He is egotistical and stupid, and what is wrong with this country that so many of us relate so passionately with that?

id just cut all taxes and make canada pay us for protection like the mob does

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Originally Posted by Decadbal

id just cut all taxes and make canada pay us for protection like the mob does

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we could beat up france and take its lunch money

i think estate and death tax is a crock, another thing that really pisses me off is used car tax. the tax on that car was paid when the 1st buyer bought the **** things. if that **** car gets sold 5 times, the government gets there tax 5 times, anybody see anything wrong with that idea? another thing is sales tax, i get taxed when i make my money, i get taxed for spending my money, and then if i sell what i bought with my already taxed money it could get taxed again? im happy as hell i have 2 seperate entities that i can write off almost anything and get away with it or id be one hell of a pissed off person. since if done thats ill use this example. i can make 100k a year, but write off about 90k of it, and that last 10k thats left over ill pay tax on, but no where near what the average employee pays when getting a pay check. honestly people its a big game, and the name of the game is who owes who. just read and do some research and alot of the tax BS you can get out of. i know i sure have

it seems ridiculous to be talking about taxes and the rich getting richer when russia has been attacked 3 TIMES in the last two weeks by terrorists!!!!!!!!!! it's UNBELIEVABLE to me that there are people in this country that actually think we won't get hit again. kerry wouldn't know what to do and even if he did he wouldn't do it. it boils down to this; go ahead and vote for flip-flopper, spineless dope and when you look out your window and see the pretty mushroom cloud, don't cry about it....as a matter of fact, go ahaead and give yourselves a nice pat on the back!

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Originally Posted by shootdeep

it seems ridiculous to be talking about taxes and the rich getting richer when russia has been attacked 3 TIMES in the last two weeks by terrorists!!!!!!!!!! it's UNBELIEVABLE to me that there are people in this country that actually think we won't get hit again. kerry wouldn't know what to do and even if he did he wouldn't do it. it boils down to this; go ahead and vote for flip-flopper, spineless dope and when you look out your window and see the pretty mushroom cloud, don't cry about it....as a matter of fact, go ahaead and give yourselves a nice pat on the back!

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What are you basing your opinion on that Kerry changes his mind on issues more than Bush? Also, since Bush has repeatedly said that it is more than likely that the US will be attacked again, is that his fault since he is the one suppose to be protecting the US, and if not, then why would it be Kerry's?

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Originally Posted by Aboot

What are you basing your opinion on that Kerry changes his mind on issues more than Bush? Also, since Bush has repeatedly said that it is more than likely that the US will be attacked again, is that his fault since he is the one suppose to be protecting the US, and if not, then why would it be Kerry's?

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k....vote for him then. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by shootdeep

k....vote for him then. :rolleyes:

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As soon as I renounce my citizenship...

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Originally Posted by shootdeep

it seems ridiculous to be talking about taxes and the rich getting richer when russia has been attacked 3 TIMES in the last two weeks by terrorists!!!!!!!!!! it's UNBELIEVABLE to me that there are people in this country that actually think we won't get hit again. kerry wouldn't know what to do and even if he did he wouldn't do it. it boils down to this; go ahead and vote for flip-flopper, spineless dope and when you look out your window and see the pretty mushroom cloud, don't cry about it....as a matter of fact, go ahaead and give yourselves a nice pat on the back!

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thought we were only on orange alert? lol god you got to be kidding me that color coded system ....for idiots like bush who cant read.

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Originally Posted by Aboot

As soon as I renounce my citizenship...

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ya know if canada is where mexico is (i hate the cold), and they had the same accounting standards that we did.....id consider moving there. .

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Originally Posted by biglouie250

thought we were only on orange alert? lol god you got to be kidding me that color coded system ....for idiots like bush who cant read.

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:lol: :lol: :lol:

Bush spent his 20s and 30s getting wasted, was a govemor for 4 years and got a sweetheart deal with a baseball team that made him rich because of his daddy. Why anyone believes he is such a great commander-in -chief is beyond belief. He spent a year of weekends in the Guard when the Guard was a joke and then went on his merry way guzzling beer in alabama getting DUIs, etc. Puh-lease. What a f*cking joke. Remember the look on his face in the school when told of the attacks on 9/11. I swear I saw pee running down his leg. He sat there for another ten minutes and then hid-out on Air Force one for 12 hours. His first address to the nation didn't even mention the word war or promise anhilation of our enemies. George W=wimp.

kerry has been a man of action since his days in Viet Nam. While you may not agree with him at least recognize his early determination to lead vs GW's determination to get wasted.

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Originally Posted by markas214

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Bush spent his 20s and 30s getting wasted, was a govemor for 4 years and got a sweetheart deal with a baseball team that made him rich because of his daddy. Why anyone believes he is such a great commander-in -chief is beyond belief. He spent a year of weekends in the Guard when the Guard was a joke and then went on his merry way guzzling beer in alabama getting DUIs, etc. Puh-lease. What a f*cking joke. Remember the look on his face in the school when told of the attacks on 9/11. I swear I saw pee running down his leg. He sat there for another ten minutes and then hid-out on Air Force one for 12 hours. His first address to the nation didn't even mention the word war or promise anhilation of our enemies. George W=wimp.

kerry has been a man of action since his days in Viet Nam. While you may not agree with him at least recognize his early determination to lead vs GW's determination to get wasted.

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yea i know people are attacking kerry left and right if i were him id have a commercial that sates simply "hey....atleast im not a smack head"

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Originally Posted by biglouie250

yea i know people are attacking kerry left and right if i were him id have a commercial that sates simply "hey....atleast im not a smack head"

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exactly. bush is a idiot and is the reason we WILL get attacked again. its because of people like him that the world hates us. he's a stupid egotisitcal, hardheaded redneck. that thinks its cool to wear his cowboy boots under his suit. the world hates us more then ever and its because of bush, and noone else. he stands for everything that is wrong with this world and acts before he thinks. im not sidding with the extremist muslims, but you cant go and kill them and do it alone, you need to make the rest of the world realize these types of people need to be taken care of and kerry would do that. he'd get the world together to back a war on terror, not go in alone and make eveyrone else resent us

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Originally Posted by markas214

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Bush spent his 20s and 30s getting wasted, was a govemor for 4 years and got a sweetheart deal with a baseball team that made him rich because of his daddy. Why anyone believes he is such a great commander-in -chief is beyond belief. He spent a year of weekends in the Guard when the Guard was a joke and then went on his merry way guzzling beer in alabama getting DUIs, etc. Puh-lease. What a f*cking joke. Remember the look on his face in the school when told of the attacks on 9/11. I swear I saw pee running down his leg. He sat there for another ten minutes and then hid-out on Air Force one for 12 hours. His first address to the nation didn't even mention the word war or promise anhilation of our enemies. George W=wimp.

kerry has been a man of action since his days in Viet Nam. While you may not agree with him at least recognize his early determination to lead vs GW's determination to get wasted.

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amen bro

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Originally Posted by shootdeep

it seems ridiculous to be talking about taxes and the rich getting richer when russia has been attacked 3 TIMES in the last two weeks by terrorists!!!!!!!!!! it's UNBELIEVABLE to me that there are people in this country that actually think we won't get hit again. kerry wouldn't know what to do and even if he did he wouldn't do it. it boils down to this; go ahead and vote for flip-flopper, spineless dope and when you look out your window and see the pretty mushroom cloud, don't cry about it....as a matter of fact, go ahaead and give yourselves a nice pat on the back!

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you sound like one of the brainless zombies at the rep convention. a bunch of idiots yelling flip flop. tell me one person in the senate that hasnt voted for one thing, and then when it gets changed alittle they vote against it? it happens all the time. and the republicans are only telling you .5 of the story and your believing it

Sucks to be bitter for not having what others worked to have. I love the liberal mentality that those who have money were somehow lucky, or they got their money by screwing someone else. liberals make absolutely no logical sense.

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Originally Posted by jcstomper

you sound like one of the brainless zombies at the rep convention. a bunch of idiots yelling flip flop. tell me one person in the senate that hasnt voted for one thing, and then when it gets changed alittle they vote against it? it happens all the time. and the republicans are only telling you .5 of the story and your believing it

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that's what zombies do

Well.. im a working class citizen and will be voting for bush. But since im in MT... that doesnt count for much. :lol:

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Originally Posted by chris64

Sucks to be bitter for not having what others worked to have. I love the liberal mentality that those who have money were somehow lucky, or they got their money by screwing someone else. liberals make absolutely no logical sense.

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mindless conservative rhetoric. what has bush worked for? EVER??

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Originally Posted by chris64

Sucks to be bitter for not having what others worked to have. I love the liberal mentality that those who have money were somehow lucky, or they got their money by screwing someone else. liberals make absolutely no logical sense.

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I have no bitterness torward those who WORKED for what they have. If you go back to the original point you will see my disgust is of liitle rich boys/girls who do nothing but have a rich parent. The Bush/Cheney/Republican system will exempt them from taxation. Bust your ass and kiss their's if you will but not me. Also will exempt all these corporate CEOs who treat there companies as cash cows and pay themselves $100 million bonuses even as the companies stock falls and the average investor gets f*cked.

[QUOTE=markas214]If W and Dick get their way this country will see the formation of an untaxed priveledged class based solely on who your parents were. First off the inheritance tax. The Republicans use the term "death tax" to vilify taxes on estates. Dead people cannot do anything but decompose. They cannot pay taxes. The ones being taxed are the heirs who did zero to accumulate the wealth they are recieving. Under Bush all heirs will be free from any taxation. Meanwhile work for $8.00/hr pay 15% payroll tax, 2 1/2% Medicare taxes 4-6% local taxes, add income taxes, sales taxes, gasoline taxes, etc. and pay an effective rate 0f over 30%.


But i thought you liked and supported the lower-middleclass paying for all the unwed mothers.. thier kids... and feeding people overseas that live in poverty...


and estate taxes... are easily mitigated through risk management.. thus leaving the estate to the heirs..

the people that get screwed are the middle class.. poor.. who die owning a $85,000 house.. and the kids end up with $35,000 of that.

That is capitalism... what you want is socialism.... and the redistribution of wealth... just so long as you get yours.........

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Originally Posted by markas214

I have no bitterness torward those who WORKED for what they have. If you go back to the original point you will see my disgust is of liitle rich boys/girls who do nothing but have a rich parent. The Bush/Cheney/Republican system will exempt them from taxation. Bust your ass and kiss their's if you will but not me. Also will exempt all these corporate CEOs who treat there companies as cash cows and pay themselves $100 million bonuses even as the companies stock falls and the average investor gets f*cked.

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The people who earned the money paid more than their fair share when they earned it (as you stated in your first post). why should the same money that has already been taxed be taxed again? why are you disgusted with rich boys/girls who inherited money? how exactly does that affect your life? why would it make you happier if the government took their money? again, none of it makes any sense. and then you want to exempt some people from the inheritence tax. what about the family business that sells shoes and is worth a couple of million bucks but only makes 75K a year? are you going to force them to close down and sell the assets to pay the taxes because theyre not farmers?

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Originally Posted by atlgadoll

The people who earned the money paid more than their fair share when they earned it (as you stated in your first post). why should the same money that has already been taxed be taxed again? why are you disgusted with rich boys/girls who inherited money? how exactly does that affect your life? why would it make you happier if the government took their money? again, none of it makes any sense. and then you want to exempt some people from the inheritence tax. what about the family business that sells shoes and is worth a couple of million bucks but only makes 75K a year? are you going to force them to close down and sell the assets to pay the taxes because theyre not farmers?

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My life is affected by subsidizing their nonpayment of taxes with higher taxes on myself. All I ask is they pay their share. Again, THE PEOPLE WHO EARNED THE MONEY ARE F*CKING DEAD. Itwould make me happier if the goverment took some money, not all from those who didn't earn it if it meant lower taxes for me.Go back and read all my posts. As of 2004 estates valued under $1.5 million are tax exempt. If the business is worth 75k a year I'd sell it if I inherited it. With the $1.5 million exempt money I could make 75k on a measly 5% return. Basically how can anyone justify a person getting millions for nothing paying no taxes while everyone who actually works for theirs pays taxes. This has nothing to do with the dead people. They're dead and probably in hell because of their greed and disrespect for humanity by wanting to somehow hold onto their fortunes im death.

[QUOTE=spywizard]

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Originally Posted by markas214

and estate taxes... are easily mitigated through risk management.. thus leaving the estate to the heirs..

the people that get screwed are the middle class.. poor.. who die owning a $85,000 house.. and the kids end up with $35,000 of that.

That is capitalism... what you want is socialism.... and the redistribution of wealth... just so long as you get yours.........

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No. No. No. You are so wrong. Estates under $1.5 million are exempt. 97% of estates are not taxed. Capitalism has nothing to do with this. The redistribution is going up not down. 25 years ago CEO's earned 35x the average employee. Now it's 3000x. Companies used to share profits with their loyal workforces. Now we have such greed that a very few men want almost all for themselves. The laws allow it and they take advantage by moving offshore and incorporating outside the USA. Then they accumulate huge fortunes that they want to share only with their children after death. The money was made at the expense of the lost wages, taxes, quality of life of the US citizens. The least they can do is give the share historically paid into American society back at the time of death. There is absolutely no justification for giving the heirs a break. They took enough advantage of the terrible policies that allowed such rape of American treasure while they were living . I say take some back. F*ck them and their spoiled offspring!