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  1. #1
    Elysium's Avatar
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    Hunting shootings - gun problems.

    Hey all

    As many of you may of seen, there was a guy who had an arguement with some people whilst hunting, who then decided to pick off 6 people with his rifle!

    I have always made my opinion heard in the past, i dont like guns, they will ultimately only lead to bad things.

    The states as the biggest gun related deaths in the world. Surely this event shows how bad a problem there is?

    Did you know that less than 1% of all crimes reported last year in the UK were gun related?

    Did you know that in the states an average of 90 people are victims to gun related incidents per day!
    Last edited by Elysium; 11-23-2004 at 07:27 AM.

  2. #2
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    Follow this link

    http://www.impact106fm.com/gun.htm

    I have compiled that info, and taken that chart from www.pbs.org

  3. #3
    MBaraso's Avatar
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    People kill people...Guns don't kill people bro.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by MBaraso
    People kill people...Guns don't kill people bro.
    Its common knowledge that guns can make someone feel "powerful". If your comment is true, which to some extent it is, then guns only bring out tendances to kill. Either way, without the guns there would be ALOT less gun related deaths.

  5. #5
    MBaraso's Avatar
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    The right to bear arms goes back to our constitutional rights. It's a shame that some people can't handle that right but everyone shouldn't be punished.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by MBaraso
    The right to bear arms goes back to our constitutional rights. It's a shame that some people can't handle that right but everyone shouldn't be punished.
    No i can handle it lol

    Im simply saying that tighter gun control would result in alot less deaths

    You have to admit there is a problem, and it needs to be addressed, america being america i know it will never outlaw guns, but for the country to move forward it needs to look at the problem.

    In the UK there is a proud and long established history of hunting, hunting on horses with dogs, fox hunting and such. This has happened for hundreds of years, to alot of people this is very important. Early next year a ban will be pushed through to outlaw all hunting, now, this is something that has gone on for years and is our history. Saying that it is inhumane and just a bloodsport. If the people do not change they get left behind, and america is falling behind, theres not a single country in the entire world that has the calibre of deaths that the US does.

    Alot more countries bear arms, but do not have the problems that the USA have.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by MBaraso
    People kill people...Guns don't kill people bro.

    I Agree 100%. If you took guns away, it would be like drugs. The people using them for the negative would find a way to get ahold of them, and the rest of us hunters and sportsmen would be left with jack to do. Gun control will never work. One could argue that better gun education would help, but I think that they would be fighting a losing battle.

  8. #8
    muff-chaser is offline Associate Member
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    dude hunting makes alot of revenue for smal farmers and such, bot to mentiont the gun and ammo manufacters camo makers, feed and seed companies processors, its all about the benjamins plus it is fun as hell! so is shooting stuff.........

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surferboy
    I Agree 100%. If you took guns away, it would be like drugs. The people using them for the negative would find a way to get ahold of them, and the rest of us hunters and sportsmen would be left with jack to do. Gun control will never work. One could argue that better gun education would help, but I think that they would be fighting a losing battle.

    OK, if you can explain to me why other countries have guns and do not have this problem?

    The problem is education and certain laws need to be looked at.

  10. #10
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    Take a note out of Canadas book, where all guns now have to be registered. This alone would cut gun related deaths. Canada has 3.95% of 100,000 people die because of gun related crimes where America has 13.47% of 100,000 people die.

    Im not saying guns should be outlawed, i would love them to be but i doubt it will happen. What i am saying is, can you not admit the fact that tighter gun laws should be brought into place?
    Last edited by Elysium; 11-23-2004 at 08:34 AM. Reason: grammer mistake

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    Idiots are idiots, no matter how much education they have. It's mandatory to take a hunters safety course where I live, if you're under 18 and want to hunt. But do you think that stops people that are 18 and under from hunting without a certificate. My father made my brother and I take it, but I didn't hardly know anyone else my age that took the class, and they were still hunting. What I'm trying to say is that this issue is way too large to be regulated. Most of the people that kill others aren't hunters, but guns are associated with hunters, therfore all of the safety courses are for hunters. So the people that really need the education will never get it.
    Do you really think that someone with the nerve to kill someone will abide by the laws and take a gun safety course...

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MESSY_UK
    Take a note out of Canadas book, where all guns now have to be registered. This alone would cut gun related deaths. Canada has 3.95% of 100,000 people die because of gun related crimes where America has 13.47% of 100,000 people die.

    Im not saying guns should be outlawed, i would love them to be but i doubt it will happen. What i am saying is, can you not admit the fact that tighter gun laws should be brought into place?

    No I don't think that tighter gun laws will help, because as I stated above, in the US, if you want something bad enough, it's easy to get ahold of. There is no way that the gov. can regulate every gun in every household.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surferboy
    Idiots are idiots, no matter how much education they have. It's mandatory to take a hunters safety course where I live, if you're under 18 and want to hunt. But do you think that stops people that are 18 and under from hunting without a certificate. My father made my brother and I take it, but I didn't hardly know anyone else my age that took the class, and they were still hunting. What I'm trying to say is that this issue is way too large to be regulated. Most of the people that kill others aren't hunters, but guns are associated with hunters, therfore all of the safety courses are for hunters. So the people that really need the education will never get it.
    Do you really think that someone with the nerve to kill someone will abide by the laws and take a gun safety course...

    So the general message im getting from you is that the problem is too big for any changes to really work?

    I hope your pesimistic attitude doesnt speak for the whole of America, as i have stated before, tighter gun control would result in less deaths, this is a proven thing, this isnt something i thought up in my head, this is something that countries that allow guns have brought in place, and have had successful results with.

  14. #14
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    I'm not saying I'm against some gun control, I'm just saying I don't think it would work. It's too easy to get away with things here. If there was a way to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, I would be all for it and support it 100%, but it will never happen.

  15. #15
    Elysium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surferboy
    I'm not saying I'm against some gun control, I'm just saying I don't think it would work. It's too easy to get away with things here. If there was a way to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, I would be all for it and support it 100%, but it will never happen.
    No, either way is a criminal wants to get a gun, at this point in time he could get one.


    Let me put it another way.


    Would the registration of all guns be a good thing or a bad thing? Please explain why also.

  16. #16
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    Gun control is the ability to hit a bullseye from 100 yards!!!

  17. #17
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    Registering weapons would help to lower quick rash decision deaths. But if I was planning to use a weapon for murder, I would buy from an underground, unlisted source. So to answer your question, yes, this could help, but I don't think it would help as much as people would like to believe.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surferboy
    Registering weapons would help to lower quick rash decision deaths. But if I was planning to use a weapon for murder, I would buy from an underground, unlisted source. So to answer your question, yes, this could help, but I don't think it would help as much as people would like to believe.

    OK, great its good you agree. We have both found something that would help to lower gun related deaths.

    Onto what you said about buying from the underground, as you may or may not know, ALL guns start their lives out as legit guns. SO if all guns were registered before, it would be easier to track them. Resulting in less deaths.

  19. #19
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    As you may or may not know, NOT all guns start out legit. So they wouldn't all be registered. There are plenty of ways to get around things, apparently you haven't understood that yet.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surferboy
    As you may or may not know, NOT all guns start out legit. So they wouldn't all be registered. There are plenty of ways to get around things, apparently you haven't understood that yet.

    Actually, all guns DO start out as legit. They are all bought by registered gun dealers, agencies etc. Then sold on to people, its the people that are not always legit. A person cannot walk into a gun factory and bulk order some guns for them to sell, they have to be a registered gun trader in order to do that.

  21. #21
    Surferboy's Avatar
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    You're still not understanding. The only reason I know, is because I've seen it. In a perfect world, yes, we could control everything. But sadly, it doesn't work that way. I admire your optimism, and respect your stance, but I just don't see it working.

  22. #22
    Elysium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surferboy
    You're still not understanding. The only reason I know, is because I've seen it. In a perfect world, yes, we could control everything. But sadly, it doesn't work that way. I admire your optimism, and respect your stance, but I just don't see it working.
    Ok, thanks for that.

    I do understand though, you mentioned that all guns do not start out legit. You havent said anything to back this up? ALL guns are at some point in their lives legit, weather its a registered person who buys them then sells them to the underground or loss of your gun etc. They start their lives legit, they can quickly become illegal but its the fact that is some states you dont have to be registered. If all people had to be registered it would cut it down.

    Please reply with some info to back up your claim that not all guns start legit.

  23. #23
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    I'll just put it this way. Licensed dealers and agencies aren't the only gun manufacturers. This other class only makes up a very small percentage of the gun population, but it is still a percentage.

  24. #24
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    Just a side note to all those who are considering replying to this thread, please keep this mature and on subject. If you cannot post a mature constructive reply then please leave.
    Last edited by Elysium; 11-23-2004 at 09:08 AM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MESSY_UK
    Just a side note to all those who are considering replying to this thread, please keep this mature and on subject. If you cannot post a mature constructive reply then please leave.
    Agreed. I must say Messy, I enjoy debating with you more than others on this board. Thanks for keeping it professional.

  26. #26
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    In my neck of the woods, it is illegal to have unregistered firearms.

  27. #27
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    A modest 52% majority favors stricter gun control, with 22% wanting less strict control and 20% wanting no change.

    A slightly larger 57% majority favors stricter laws relating to the control of handguns, with 18% favoring less strict laws and 19% wanting no change.

    By 29% to 25% a modest plurality thinks President George Bush would be better on the gun control issue than Senator John Kerry, but 22% see no difference, and 24% are not sure.



    ref: http://usgovinfo.about.com

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by JdJuicer
    In my neck of the woods, it is illegal to have unregistered firearms.
    Yes, in many states this is true, there is however quite a few that still do not choose to enforce this. This coupled with other less strict laws will only spell the downfall.

    For a country named the UNITED STATES, the states seem less than united when it comes to deciding which laws should be and which shouldnt, this has resulted in many states choosing to enforce them and others simply ignoring them.

  29. #29
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    I think most would agree that gun regulations only hurt the honest man... criminals are not concerned when new gun regulations pass... the brady bill didn't seem to affect the D.C. snipers... and to track down a registered gun after it's been used in a crime just doesn't seem proactive enough for me as far as lowering the homocide rate... I know when I drop of night deposits from work I am very appreciative of my 2nd amendment rights... by the way since when are you the maturity police?

  30. #30
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    It's actually comical. They went out with intentions of killing and they got a taste of there own medicine. If God is a deer then that guy got a good seat in Heaven.

  31. #31
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    Guns dont kill people, bullets kill people. Charge like 5 grand for bullet, that way you avoid deaths, and if someone dies from a bullet, they sure had it coming.

  32. #32
    Elysium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJstrong
    I think most would agree that gun regulations only hurt the honest man... criminals are not concerned when new gun regulations pass... the brady bill didn't seem to affect the D.C. snipers... and to track down a registered gun after it's been used in a crime just doesn't seem proactive enough for me as far as lowering the homocide rate... I know when I drop of night deposits from work I am very appreciative of my 2nd amendment rights... by the way since when are you the maturity police?
    I loved the last bit, maturity police? What are you talking about.


    See the thing is, this method of gun control is proven throughout the world, over 50% of americans agree there should be tighter gun control too.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maraxus
    Guns dont kill people, bullets kill people. Charge like 5 grand for bullet, that way you avoid deaths, and if someone dies from a bullet, they sure had it coming.
    What was tha off again? D*mn cant remember, what was the guys name, he is dead funny its just on the tip of my tongue.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by MESSY_UK
    Just a side note to all those who are considering replying to this thread, please keep this mature and on subject. If you cannot post a mature constructive reply then please leave.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by MESSY_UK
    What was tha off again? D*mn cant remember, what was the guys name, he is dead funny its just on the tip of my tongue.
    chris rock

  36. #36
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    Guns don't kill people bro... People kill people... I like having my guns.. You guys in the UK can quit hunting, and give the government your guns, but I'm keeping mine.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surferboy
    I'm not saying I'm against some gun control, I'm just saying I don't think it would work. It's too easy to get away with things here. If there was a way to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, I would be all for it and support it 100%, but it will never happen.
    Ahhh... how to keep guns out of the hands of criminals... CHOP THEIR HANDS OFF!!!

    Most folks screw up really bad at least once in their life. Generally, such people deserve a second chance and it is in society's interest to welcome a repentant offender back into the world. Career criminals, OTOH, should be fixed so that they can no longer commit crimes. Islamic law sucks in some ways... the "appeals process" for instance, and that the accused is judged by religious authority rather than civil. But you gotta admit, a theif or robber with a hand cut off is going to have a tougher time resuming his evil ways, and once he loses both of them, it must be REALLY hard to handle a gun effectively. Chopping the head off definitely puts a screeching halt to a career of crime! We warehouse lawbreakers in what amounts to universities of wickedness, where someone who might possibly straighten out, instead learns to be more vicious and sociopathic. Prison should not be a growth industry. The U.S. has something like 8% of the world's population and something like a third of all incarcerated prisoners in the world. WTF?

  38. #38
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    In Barbados gun control is TIGHT. It takes an act of god for an everyday citizen to buy a gun. Hell......the cops don't even carry them!

    Guess who has guns! The BAD guys.

    Gun control does NOT work....except to keep the guns from law abiding citizens.... IMO.


    Quote Originally Posted by MESSY_UK
    No i can handle it lol

    Im simply saying that tighter gun control would result in alot less deaths

    You have to admit there is a problem, and it needs to be addressed, america being america i know it will never outlaw guns, but for the country to move forward it needs to look at the problem.

    In the UK there is a proud and long established history of hunting, hunting on horses with dogs, fox hunting and such. This has happened for hundreds of years, to alot of people this is very important. Early next year a ban will be pushed through to outlaw all hunting, now, this is something that has gone on for years and is our history. Saying that it is inhumane and just a bloodsport. If the people do not change they get left behind, and america is falling behind, theres not a single country in the entire world that has the calibre of deaths that the US does.

    Alot more countries bear arms, but do not have the problems that the USA have.

  39. #39
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    Americans just have a propensity for murdering each other........

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    Quote Originally Posted by MESSY_UK
    Take a note out of Canadas book, where all guns now have to be registered. This alone would cut gun related deaths. Canada has 3.95% of 100,000 people die because of gun related crimes where America has 13.47% of 100,000 people die.

    Im not saying guns should be outlawed, i would love them to be but i doubt it will happen. What i am saying is, can you not admit the fact that tighter gun laws should be brought into place?
    Guns have ALWAYS been registered in Canada... it's nothing new. You've always needed a license to buy a rifle or shotgun and it's always been nearly impossible to buy a handgun.

    They made a much stricter "new and improved" registration system under pressure from the anti-gun lobby a few years ago that cost the taxpayer over a billion dollars and hasn't changed the gun crimes, accidents and deaths statistics one iota...

    Canada does have per-capita way more firearms than the US, but nearly all of them are hunting weapons, not handguns. Another statistic the canadian anti-gun lobby doesn't tell people is that a large percentage of all gun deaths in Canada are related to illegal handguns smuggled from the US and often in the hands of gang members or biker gangs and not legally owned hunting weapons.

    Red

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