pistol question guys

**hung-solo** · 11-30-2004, 01:24 PM

sup fellas, i am going to buy either a glock 23 .40 cal or a h&k usp .45.. i want a gun that is accurate and rugged. i have read a lot about these two any of you own either or both? if so how do you like them??

**decadbal** · 11-30-2004, 01:27 PM

i have a usp 45, most handguns are only accurate to about 40 maybe 50yards, ive hit targets with no bullet desent up to 70yards out.. the best gun in the world IMHO....

**hung-solo** · 11-30-2004, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Decadbal

i have a usp 45, most handguns are only accurate to about 40 maybe 50yards, ive hit targets with no bullet desent up to 70yards out.. the best gun in the world IMHO....

so you have just the plain usp 45 right? not the tactical or whatever?

**Philliagorillia** · 11-30-2004, 01:39 PM

Well he is something your gonna have to factor in with a handgun, why do you want a 40 or a 45, make sure the gun fits your hand properly and your comfortable with its weight with a full clip in it. Also is the gun for target shooting for fun or strict competetive use or for home protection or personal protection (suppose you have a conseal and carry permit). Then ask yourself why you are set on a glock or HK, personally i dont like glocks much, the clips are a bitch to load and i find them not very accurate. Hk's great guns, reliable, but really expensive and most dealers dont carry parts for them if something goes wrong. Personally i like SIG for my competetive shooting, home protection and conseal and carry i like to use my Springfield XD-9mm its light, accurate and has a high capasity. Anywho, thats just my 2 cents....

**decadbal** · 11-30-2004, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by hung-solo

so you have just the plain usp 45 right? not the tactical or whatever?

yea sorry, the swat edition.. best gun ever, i have a few sigs and a sauer and they are by far awesome weapson ,but the HnK is by far the best..imo

**Philliagorillia** · 11-30-2004, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by Decadbal

yea sorry, the swat edition.. best gun ever, i have a few sigs and a sauer and they are by far awesome weapson ,but the HnK is by far the best..imo

Those swat editions are some tight guns, i thought about picking one up next year and giving it a whirl in some competetive shooting matches and see how i do...

**hung-solo** · 11-30-2004, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Decadbal

yea sorry, the swat edition.. best gun ever, i have a few sigs and a sauer and they are by far awesome weapson ,but the HnK is by far the best..imo

how much are they?? the swat editions??

**decadbal** · 11-30-2004, 02:21 PM

mine was right over 1200 and the magazine are 120 or were, im sure if u look u can get em cheaper

**hung-solo** · 11-30-2004, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by Decadbal

mine was right over 1200 and the magazine are 120 or were, im sure if u look u can get em cheaper

**** that. too much$$ i was looking at sig's also but i dont like the way the gun feels also its a little on the heavy side

**decadbal** · 11-30-2004, 02:42 PM

mine was altered to for law enforcement, it that bumped it up some

**OGPackin** · 11-30-2004, 03:10 PM

IMHO the h&k is one bad as gun. I carry a Walther PPKs. Its small enough to carry comfortably with just enough fire power. Plus, sometimes having the biggest cal. isnt always the best. The slower the bullet the more damage its going to do.

OG

**decadbal** · 11-30-2004, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by OGPackin

IMHO the h&k is one bad as gun. I carry a Walther PPKs. Its small enough to carry comfortably with just enough fire power. Plus, sometimes having the biggest cal. isnt always the best. The slower the bullet the more damage its going to do.

OG

i see your weapon is like yoru penis, small and shoots short..lol

**OGPackin** · 11-30-2004, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by Decadbal

i see your weapon is like yoru penis, small and shoots short..lol

You would know....hahaha

OG

**Phillyboy1** · 11-30-2004, 03:38 PM

i just picked up a HK usp compact 9mm in two tone last week, i love this gun and carry it on my every day. i personally hate the glocks, sorry but that trigger safety is not a safety in my eyes. the HK has a decocker and a safety

i got the 9mm cause its a faster round so i can get more of them off quicker then you can with a .40 or .45. i can also carry more rounds in a high cap clip. i carry hollow points from remmington so i dont wanna hear crap out of anybody that my 9mm wont take some one down. if you think you can take a 9mm and still keep coming then let me shoot you in your stomach or chest and lets see how far you go. the whole i need a .45 to stop some one is complete crap.

my gun

**Psychotron** · 11-30-2004, 06:09 PM

From personal experience I would go with the USP .45 I am going to shoot some rifles this weekend, should be fun. Alabama, home of the public gun ranges~

**angelxterminator** · 11-30-2004, 06:13 PM

H&K's are the shlt man. I own a USP Tactical .45, and a PDS modified MP5-K with the 0-1-2 tactical trigger group. They are awesome weapons.

Just recently i purchased a new handgun. Its a bit different from the HK, and about a pound heavier. Only 7 rounds in the clip, but god daym does this thing feel good to shoot. Haa your 9 might stop somebody from running at you, but this thing will split them in two!

**Slick Arrado** · 11-30-2004, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by jcstomper

my gun

\

Beautiful, absolutely beautiful. I've also heard from a lot of LE people that Glocks are over-rated and Sigs/HKs are the way to go. :spudniklu

**Jdawg50** · 11-30-2004, 06:18 PM

I have a Sig Sauer .45, Ruger 9mm, and a Berretta .40.
I like the 9mm, but it does kinda feel like I'm shooting a .22
I love the .40, and the berretta is a great gun.
I love my Sig Sauer .45, best pistol I have period. This thing is sweet!
Get a Sig bro.
Also speaking from experience... get a double action gun with a hammer.
(I have a .45 bullet in my left femur from a glock with no hammer)
I happen to like the idea of a saftey that you can switch on or off. That's just my opinion though.

http://www.sigarms.com/products/clas...roduct_id=172#

**Psychotron** · 11-30-2004, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by angelxterminator

H&K's are the shlt man. I own a USP Tactical .45, and a PDS modified MP5-K with the 0-1-2 tactical trigger group. They are awesome weapons.

Just recently i purchased a new handgun. Its a bit different from the HK, and about a pound heavier. Only 7 rounds in the clip, but god daym does this thing feel good to shoot. Haa your 9 might stop somebody from running at you, but this thing will split them in two!

mm Israeli Arms Desert Eagle, awesome gun, .50 or .45?

**angelxterminator** · 11-30-2004, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by Psychotron

mm Israeli Arms Desert Eagle, awesome gun, .50 or .45?

.50 Action Express, its bad ASS.

IMI is the shiznat when it comes to handguns. Nothing touches the stopping power of that for a repeating handgun! I have a small conversion kit for that gun, with another pistol as well. It includes the .50 you see, plus a .44 magnum version of the same gun, but with new upper recievers to make the tube 4" longer, and another upper to make them both carbine rifles!

The whole kit was about $4,500.

**Phillyboy1** · 11-30-2004, 08:18 PM

ill sell ya this if ya want lol

**P Rock** · 11-30-2004, 08:25 PM

i got the tony montana special. say hello to my little friend.

**dtr98** · 12-01-2004, 12:52 AM

got a sig 220 45 and it is the best, even feeds 200gr hps with no problem

Originally Posted by Jdawg50

I have a Sig Sauer .45, Ruger 9mm, and a Berretta .40.
I like the 9mm, but it does kinda feel like I'm shooting a .22
I love the .40, and the berretta is a great gun.
I love my Sig Sauer .45, best pistol I have period. This thing is sweet!
Get a Sig bro.
Also speaking from experience... get a double action gun with a hammer.
(I have a .45 bullet in my left femur from a glock with no hammer)
I happen to like the idea of a saftey that you can switch on or off. That's just my opinion though.

http://www.sigarms.com/products/clas...roduct_id=172#

**Spoon** · 12-01-2004, 12:58 AM

Originally Posted by hung-solo

sup fellas, i am going to buy either a glock 23 .40 cal or a h&k usp .45.. i want a gun that is accurate and rugged. i have read a lot about these two any of you own either or both? if so how do you like them??

i have a glock 30 .45 and a hk usp 9mm. in my opinion, i would say glock would be the reliable choice because a glock has no frills. you just point and shoot. and its also very conceilable for the number of rounds in it.

**BOUNCER** · 12-01-2004, 04:50 AM

Here's one I bought my wife..

**Spoon** · 12-01-2004, 07:05 AM

Originally Posted by BOUNCER

Here's one I bought my wife..

thats some funny shhhheeet!

**hung-solo** · 12-01-2004, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by jcstomper

i just picked up a HK usp compact 9mm in two tone last week, i love this gun and carry it on my every day. i personally hate the glocks, sorry but that trigger safety is not a safety in my eyes. the HK has a decocker and a safety

i got the 9mm cause its a faster round so i can get more of them off quicker then you can with a .40 or .45. i can also carry more rounds in a high cap clip. i carry hollow points from remmington so i dont wanna hear crap out of anybody that my 9mm wont take some one down. if you think you can take a 9mm and still keep coming then let me shoot you in your stomach or chest and lets see how far you go. the whole i need a .45 to stop some one is complete crap.

my gun

i was looking at those also. if i get a compact i am getting a 40 or a 9milly.. .45 i would get the full size. the things is, is that hk's are so expensive. but i love the way the hk compacts feel grip wise. never shot one though..

**Duck of Death** · 12-01-2004, 08:48 AM

I hope I can be of some help and put this pistol thing in perspective.
The first thing you have to ask yourself when purchasing a pistol is, "What do I want to do with it?". If all you wish to do is be a "paper puncher" or plinker, then an inexpensive Ruger or, if you are well-heeled financially, a Beretta or HK would fill the bill. However, if you are asking this pistol to possibly save your life one day and you are desiring a defensive pistol, then things get more complex. I am a veteran of many of John Farnam's Defense Training International courses and have an instructor rating. His courses incorporate pistols, rifles, and shotgun training and I have seen in action and fired just about every pistol, rifle, and shotgun there is.
All I can do is relate to you what I have observed. IMHO, the over-riding consideration for a defensive pistol is reliability. You want it to go "bang" every time you pull the trigger and not to break if the action gets thick. Over three-day courses with over 800 rounds fired, if a pistol is going to break, it will do it at this course. The most reliable and problem-free pistols that I have seen are in this order:
1) Glock
2) Sig Sauer/Kahr (tie)
3) H&K/Kimber (tie)
4) Beretta
5) Ruger
6) 1911-style .45s and their clones

You would be amazed at the number of pistols that malfunction, break, and otherwise disappoint during these courses.
Acuuracy is secondary, as when the SHTF, your adrenalin will be pumping and even center-mass hits are a chore. If you dont believe me, try running in place for about 60 seconds and then engage a target and see how you do - bet it is worse than usual!
As far as stopping power, the literature is replete with bad guys taking multiple hits from 9mm, .45, and even magnum loads without going down. The myth of the "one-shot stop" is so dangerous that many LEOs have been killed when they shot a bad guy once with their "wonder-load" and stopped in awe and disbelief when he didnt go down. Even perforated, the bad guy sometimes continued to fight and killed the LEO.
Ask any emergency room physician in a large city how many pistol wounds they see on a weekend and they will tell you quite a few. Usually they patch the holes up and all is OK. However, if you ask them how many rifle or shotgun wounds they see, they will scratch their heads and say they cant remember seeing any. Why? Becuase rifle and shotgun victims are usually dead at the scene! That's because rifles and shotguns are in a different league than the pathetic pistol popguns - the high velocities of the rifle bullet and the destructive power of the shotgun elevate them to a class to themselves.
What do I carry? A Glock 19 with Cor-Bon "powerball" expanding points, A Glock 36 in .45 (Powerball), and a Kahr PM9 when I need deep concealment (smaller than a Walther PPK but in 9mm).
As for ADs (accidental discharges), please believe me when I say that NO safety is reliable - the best way to avoid gun going boom when you dont want it to is to KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOU HAVE OBTAINED A SIGHT PICTURE AND HAVE DECIDED TO SHOOT!
Hope this is of some help!
Oh, and PLEASE take one of John's courses if you are serious about training - it will open your eyes and provide you with a LOT of fun and prepare you for anything!

**hung-solo** · 12-01-2004, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by Duck of Death

I hope I can be of some help and put this pistol thing in perspective.
The first thing you have to ask yourself when purchasing a pistol is, "What do I want to do with it?". If all you wish to do is be a "paper puncher" or plinker, then an inexpensive Ruger or, if you are well-heeled financially, a Beretta or HK would fill the bill. However, if you are asking this pistol to possibly save your life one day and you are desiring a defensive pistol, then things get more complex. I am a veteran of many of John Farnam's Defense Training International courses and have an instructor rating. His courses incorporate pistols, rifles, and shotgun training and I have seen in action and fired just about every pistol, rifle, and shotgun there is.
All I can do is relate to you what I have observed. IMHO, the over-riding consideration for a defensive pistol is reliability. You want it to go "bang" every time you pull the trigger and not to break if the action gets thick. Over three-day courses with over 800 rounds fired, if a pistol is going to break, it will do it at this course. The most reliable and problem-free pistols that I have seen are in this order:
1) Glock
2) Sig Sauer/Kahr (tie)
3) H&K/Kimber (tie)
4) Beretta
5) Ruger
6) 1911-style .45s and their clones

You would be amazed at the number of pistols that malfunction, break, and otherwise disappoint during these courses.
Acuuracy is secondary, as when the SHTF, your adrenalin will be pumping and even center-mass hits are a chore. If you dont believe me, try running in place for about 60 seconds and then engage a target and see how you do - bet it is worse than usual!
As far as stopping power, the literature is replete with bad guys taking multiple hits from 9mm, .45, and even magnum loads without going down. The myth of the "one-shot stop" is so dangerous that many LEOs have been killed when they shot a bad guy once with their "wonder-load" and stopped in awe and disbelief when he didnt go down. Even perforated, the bad guy sometimes continued to fight and killed the LEO.
Ask any emergency room physician in a large city how many pistol wounds they see on a weekend and they will tell you quite a few. Usually they patch the holes up and all is OK. However, if you ask them how many rifle or shotgun wounds they see, they will scratch their heads and say they cant remember seeing any. Why? Becuase rifle and shotgun victims are usually dead at the scene! That's because rifles and shotguns are in a different league than the pathetic pistol popguns - the high velocities of the rifle bullet and the destructive power of the shotgun elevate them to a class to themselves.
What do I carry? A Glock 19 with Cor-Bon "powerball" expanding points, A Glock 36 in .45 (Powerball), and a Kahr PM9 when I need deep concealment (smaller than a Walther PPK but in 9mm).
As for ADs (accidental discharges), please believe me when I say that NO safety is reliable - the best way to avoid gun going boom when you dont want it to is to KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOU HAVE OBTAINED A SIGHT PICTURE AND HAVE DECIDED TO SHOOT!
Hope this is of some help!
Oh, and PLEASE take one of John's courses if you are serious about training - it will open your eyes and provide you with a LOT of fun and prepare you for anything!

**** fine post bro! thanx a lot. i have come down to these choices for protection and some target shooting

1. sig 229 .40
2. glock 23 .40
3. hk compact 9mm or full size usp in .45

the only thing is $$ is it worth buying the hk when the sigs and glocks are just as good accuracy wise and reliablity??

**mr_man** · 12-01-2004, 10:45 AM

I got a sig 40, two tone(stanless on top and black on bottom). It can be a .40 .45 or 9mm with a quick change of the barrel. It is one of the best guns I have even bought. It was brand new with 2, 15 round clips for 850.00 tax and all.

**mr_man** · 12-01-2004, 10:54 AM

IS it true that HK is not making the two tone any more? I heard this second hand so I'm not for sure.

**hung-solo** · 12-01-2004, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by mr_man

IS it true that HK is not making the two tone any more? I heard this second hand so I'm not for sure.

i dont think so i see those everywhere.. does glock make a stainless slide?? granted i know that bad boys 2 is a movie but smith's glock has a stainless slide..

**Gearhead007** · 12-01-2004, 11:08 AM

dddddddddddddddddddddddd

**hung-solo** · 12-01-2004, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by Gearhead007

I have a couple of Sigs and a HK USP.

You can't go wrong either way.

i can get a used certified sig 229 .40cal for 500$ worth the price or should i go with a brand new glock 23 .40 for the same price?? hk are just too expensive

**PowerC** · 12-01-2004, 12:07 PM

I have the Glock 23 and i love it , I was in the military and have fired and trained with many weapons, and the glock 40 is a reliable gun. Its accurate and very easy to fire.

**hung-solo** · 12-01-2004, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by PowerC

I have the Glock 23 and i love it , I was in the military and have fired and trained with many weapons, and the glock 40 is a reliable gun. Its accurate and very easy to fire.

the only thing i dont like about the glock is the safety. it doesnt have one and my friends make me nervous as hell

**Soldier of Misfortune** · 12-01-2004, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by P Rock

i got the tony montana special. say hello to my little friend.

Which would be the M-16A2 with M-203 grenade launcher, but Im sure you knew that.

My dad has a Ruger .44magnum with a scope that he hunts deer with. Ive shot it before, fvckin bad ass gun.

**edmen2** · 12-01-2004, 12:35 PM

it all comes down to personal preference. 9mm is a high speed round .40 and .45 are more for knockdown power. in law enforcement the 9mm is discouraged upon due to the officer having to worry about what is behind the person he would be shooting at the 40 is used for its knockdown power but in theory is inaccurate after 25 yds because it is a slow moving round. the 45 is usually more than what u need and also less rounds in the mag. bottom line is they will all do the job so just go with what is comfortable. i was an officer 5 yrs and never had to fire my weapon(glock 22) in the line of duty so dont buy with the idea that u will be using it everyday.

**Duck of Death** · 12-01-2004, 01:28 PM

Do yourself a favor and find a range that will let you try or rent the pistols that you are considering and shoot them all. There will be one that you will shoot better than the others and will feel "right" to you. That is your gun.
As for the .40 cal round, I have never been a great fan since it is a high-pressure round and has the potential to stress the chamber a lot. A few "kabooms" (ruptured handguns) have happened with the .40. The 9mm and the .45 are tried and true and are my personal choices. That being said, a lot of LEO departments use the .40 and another fast, high-pressure round (.357 SIG) is fast becoming very popular. Shoot them all - then choose!
Also, please don't listen to ill-informed folks who say the Glock is unsafe because it doesnt have an external safety. The safety is located on the trigger. It must be depressed for the gun's trigger to move. In a gunfight, the less things you have to fiddle with the better off you are. Where I live, an incident occured not too long ago where a female LEO had to draw down on an armed suspect and her gun failed (repeatedly) to fire. It was later determined that she failed to activate the external safety (Sig handgun). Imagine how she felt trying to shoot back!
Your choice, though, my bro. I carry a Glock daily and have fired many rounds and have yet to have an accidental discharge. As my instructor used to say, "When a gun goes off accidentally, you can be sure that some **** fool's finger was on the trigger".

**hung-solo** · 12-01-2004, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Duck of Death

Do yourself a favor and find a range that will let you try or rent the pistols that you are considering and shoot them all. There will be one that you will shoot better than the others and will feel "right" to you. That is your gun.
As for the .40 cal round, I have never been a great fan since it is a high-pressure round and has the potential to stress the chamber a lot. A few "kabooms" (ruptured handguns) have happened with the .40. The 9mm and the .45 are tried and true and are my personal choices. That being said, a lot of LEO departments use the .40 and another fast, high-pressure round (.357 SIG) is fast becoming very popular. Shoot them all - then choose!
Also, please don't listen to ill-informed folks who say the Glock is unsafe because it doesnt have an external safety. The safety is located on the trigger. It must be depressed for the gun's trigger to move. In a gunfight, the less things you have to fiddle with the better off you are. Where I live, an incident occured not too long ago where a female LEO had to draw down on an armed suspect and her gun failed (repeatedly) to fire. It was later determined that she failed to activate the external safety (Sig handgun). Imagine how she felt trying to shoot back!
Your choice, though, my bro. I carry a Glock daily and have fired many rounds and have yet to have an accidental discharge. As my instructor used to say, "When a gun goes off accidentally, you can be sure that some **** fool's finger was on the trigger".

good point guys thanx!