12-14-2004, 03:55 PM #1
For the Guys that have beenupset by recent threads.
Lately thei have been alot of threads os animal cruelty...killing cats and hunting, shooting dogs etc...for all the guys who have been upset by those threads, heres a little info I found, take care.
Why Sport Hunting Is Cruel and Unnecessary
Today, hunting, which was a crucial part of survival 100,000 years ago, is nothing more than a violent form of recreation that is unnecessary for the subsistence of the vast majority of hunters.1 Hunting has contributed to the extinction of animal species all over the world, including the Tasmanian tiger2 and the great auk.3
Although less than 5 percent of the U.S. population hunts,4 it is permitted in many wildlife refuges, national forests and state parks, and other public lands. Forty percent of hunters kill animals on public land,5 which means that every year, on the half-billion acres of public land in the U.S., millions of animals who “belong” to the more than 95 percent of Americans who do not hunt are slaughtered and maimed by hunters,6 and by some estimates, poachers kill just as many illegally.7
Conservation and Management Programs Fail
To attract more hunters (and their money), federal and state agencies implement programs—often termed “wildlife management” or “conservation” programs—to boost the number of “game” species so that there are plenty of animals for hunters to kill and, consequently, plenty of revenue from the sale of hunting licenses.
Duck hunters in Louisiana persuaded the state wildlife agency to direct $100,000 a year toward “reduced predator impact,” which involved trapping foxes and raccoons so that more duck eggs would hatch, giving hunters more birds to kill.8 The Ohio Division of Wildlife teamed up with a hunter-organized society to push for clear-cutting (decimating large tracts of trees) in Wayne National Forest to “produce habitat needed by ruffed grouse.”9
In Alaska, the Department of Fish and Game is trying to increase the number of moose for hunters by “controlling” the wolf and bear populations. Grizzlies and black bears have been moved hundreds of miles from their homes—two were shot by hunters within two weeks of their relocation, and others have simply returned to their homes10—and wolves have been slaughtered in order to “let the moose population rebound and provide a higher harvest for local hunters.”11 In the early 1990s, a program designed to reduce the wolf population backfired when snares failed to kill victims quickly, and photos of suffering wolves were seen by an outraged public.12
Colorado is dealing with an overpopulation of elks, but programs aimed at controlling their numbers have led to “mistaken identity” killings of protected moose.13 Although more hunting permits are being issued and tens of thousands of elks are killed every year by hunters, there has been no reduction in the population.14
Nature Takes Care of Its Own
If left unaltered, the delicate balance of nature’s ecosystems ensures the survival of most species. Natural predators help maintain this balance by killing only the sickest and weakest individuals. Hunters, however, kill any animal they would like to hang over the fireplace—including large, healthy animals who are needed to keep the population strong.
Even when unusual occurrences cause temporary animal-overpopulation problems, natural processes quickly stabilize the group. Starvation and disease are unfortunate, but they are nature’s way of ensuring that healthy, strong animals survive and maintain the strength of the entire herd or group. Shooting an animal because he or she might starve or become sick is arbitrary and destructive.
Sport hunting not only jeopardizes nature’s balance, but also exacerbates other problems. For example, the transfer of captive-bred deer and elk between states for the purpose of hunting is believed to have contributed to the epidemic spread of chronic wasting disease (CWD). As a result, the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) has given state wildlife agencies millions of dollars to “manage” deer and elk populations.15 The fatal, neurological illness that affects these animals has been likened to mad cow disease, and while the USDA and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention claim that CWD has no relationship to any similar diseases that affect humans or domesticated livestock, the slaughter of deer and elk is slated to continue.16,17
Another problem with hunting involves the introduction of exotic “game” animals who, if able to escape and thrive, pose a threat to native wildlife and established ecosystems. A group of non-native wild boars escaped from a private ranch and moved into the forests of Cambria County, Pa., prompting that state to draft a bill prohibiting the importation of any exotic species.18
Most hunting occurs on private land, where laws that protect wildlife are often inapplicable or difficult to enforce. On private lands that are set up as for-profit hunting reserves or game ranches, hunters can pay to kill native and exotic species in “canned hunts.” These animals may be native to the area, raised elsewhere and brought in, or purchased from individuals who are trafficking unwanted or surplus animals from zoos and circuses. They are hunted and killed for the sole purpose of providing hunters with an exotic “trophy.”
Canned hunts are becoming big business—there are an estimated 1,000 to 2,000 game preserves in the U.S.19 Ted Turner, who owns more land than any other landowner in the nation, operates 20 ranches where hunters pay thousands of dollars to kill bison, deer, African antelopes, and turkeys.20
Animals on canned-hunting ranches are often accustomed to humans and are usually unable to escape from the enclosures, which range in size from just a few yards to thousands of acres across. Most of these ranches operate on a “no kill, no pay” policy, so it is in the owners’ best interests to ensure that clients get what they came for. Owners do this by offering guides who know the location and habits of the animals, permitting the use of dogs, and supplying “feeding stations” that lure unsuspecting animals to food while hunters lie in wait.
Only a handful of states prohibit canned hunting,21 and there are no federal laws regulating the practice at this time, although Congress is considering an amendment to the Captive Exotic Animal Protection Act that would prohibit the transfer, transportation, or possession of exotic animals “for entertainment or the collection of a trophy.”22
Hunting “accidents” destroy property and injure or kill horses, cows, dogs, cats, hikers, and other hunters. In 2001, according to the International Hunter Education Association, there were dozens of deaths and hundreds of injuries attributed to hunting in the United States—and that only includes incidents involving humans.23 It is an ongoing problem, and one warden explained that “hunters seem unfamiliar with their firearms and do not have enough respect for the damage they can do.”24
A Humane Alternative
There are 20 million deer in the U.S., and because hunting has been an ineffective method to “control” populations (one Pennsylvania hunter “manages” the population by clearing his 600-acre plot of wooded land and planting corn to attract deer), some wildlife agencies are considering other management techniques.25 Several recent studies suggest that sterilization is an effective, long-term solution to overpopulation. A method called TNR (trap, neuter, and return) has been tried on deer in Ithaca, N.Y.,26 and an experimental birth-control vaccine is being used on female deer in Princeton, N.J.27 One Georgia study suggested for 1,500 white-tailed deer on Cumberland Island concluded that “herd size in closed populations can be regulated in the field relatively quickly if fertile and sterile animals can be identified … and an appropriate sterilization schedule is generated.”28
What You Can Do
Before you support a “wildlife” or “conservation” group, ask about its position on hunting. Groups such as the National Wildlife Federation, the National Audubon Society, the Sierra Club, the Izaak Walton League, the Wilderness Society, the World Wildlife Fund, and many others are pro-sport-hunting or, at the very least, they do not oppose it.
To combat hunting in your area, post “no hunting” signs on your land, join or form an anti-hunting organization, protest organized hunts, and spread deer repellent or human hair (from barber shops) near hunting areas. Call 1-800-448-NPCA to report poachers in national parks to the National Parks and Conservation Association. Educate others about hunting. Encourage your legislators to enact or enforce wildlife protection laws, and insist that nonhunters be equally represented on wildlife agency staffs.
1)National Research Council, “Science and the Endangered Species Act,” Washington, D.C.: National Academy Press, 1995: 21.
2)Grant Holloway, “Cloning to Revive Extinct Species,” CNN, 28 May 2002.
3)“Great Auk,” Canadian Museum of Nature, 2003.
4)United States Fish and Wildlife Service, “National Survey of Fishing, Hunting, and Wildlife—Associated Recreation,” Washington, D.C.: GPO, 2001: 5.
5)U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, 80.
6)United States Department of the Interior, “Public Land Statistics,” Table 1-3, Mar. 2000.
7)“Poaching Is a Serious Crime,” Illinois Department of Natural Resources, May 2003.
8)Bob Marshall, “Is Predator Program Enough?” Times-Picayune, 2 Mar. 2003.
9)Dave Golowenski, “Grouse Numbers Go Up If Trees Come Down,” The Columbus Dispatch, 20 Feb. 2003.
10)“Hunters Shoot Two Relocated Bears,” Associated Press, 9 Jun. 2003.
11)Joel Gay, “McGrath Wolf Kills Fall Short,” Anchorage Daily News, 25 Apr. 2003.
12)Gay, “Governor Takes Heat From Hunters Expecting Aerial Wolf Control,” Anchorage Daily News, 8 Apr. 2003.
13)Charlie Meyers, “Professor’s Prime Advice: Trim the Elk Herds, Now,” The Denver Post, 20 May 2003.
15)United States Department of Agriculture, “USDA Makes $4 Million Available to State Wildlife Agencies for Strengthening Chronic Wasting Disease Management,” 15 Apr. 2003.
16)Animal and Plant Health Inspection Services, “What is Chronic Wasting Disease?” United States Department of Agriculture, Nov. 2002.
17)CDC Media Relations, “Fatal Degenerative Neurologic Illnesses in Men Who Participated in Wild Game Feasts—Wisconsin, 2002,” Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Feb. 2003.
18)Judy Lin, “Pennsylvania Worried About Wild Boar Escape,” Associated Press, 17 Mar. 2002.
19)Jeffery Kluger, “Hunting Made Easy,” Time, 11 Mar. 2002.
20)Audrey Hudson, “Greens Cut Turner a Break; Critics Question His Stewardship of Western Land,” The Washington Times, 20 Jan. 2002.
21)National Conference of State Legislatures, “Canned Hunting,” Environment, Energy and Transportation Program, Apr. 2003.
22)H.R. 3464 Captive Exotic Animal Protection Act, Session 107, introduced 11 Nov. 2001.
23)“Hunter Incident Clearinghouse,” International Hunter Education Association, 2001.
24)Tom Harelson, “1998 Deer Gun Season Report,” Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources, 8 Dec. 1998.
25)Andrew C. Revkin, “States Seek to Restore Deer Balance,” The New York Times, 29 Dec. 2002
26)Roger Segelken, “Surgical Sterilization Snips Away at Deer Population,” Cornell News, 19 Mar. 2003.
27)“Princeton’s Deer Hunt Coming to a Premature End,” Associated Press, 21 Mar. 2003.
28)James L. Boone and Richard G. Wiegert, “Modeling Deer Herd Management: Sterilization Is a Viable Option,” University of Georgia, 1994.
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12-14-2004, 04:03 PM #2
my god.....you don't really believe that crap do you?
i don't hunt anymore but i fully support it and will teach my kids to hunt.....
12-14-2004, 04:04 PM #3
Nice post, I hunt and will always do so, I take only what I eat. I have never really been into trophy hunting. Kill em all!!!
12-14-2004, 04:18 PM #4
Youre entitled to your own opinion, but you have absolutely no basis for your argument. Thats all propaganda, probably posted by some hippie tree hugger in NYC that hasnt been out of the city their entire life.
Anyway, hunting is necessary. Each environment has a carrying capacity and once that carrying capacity is breached, bad things happpen. Animals stave due to lack of food, disease spreads, and the whole environment is basically worse off. Just a few years ago here in Iowa, there was a massive overpopulation of deer which led to "blue tongue disease." There were thousands of deer that suffered because of this and it was all due to overpopulation. EVERY YEAR in this state alone, there are over 140,000 deer killed anually. But each year, there is always a crapload of deer because their reproductive success is so high. Could you image what would happen if deer hunting wasnt allowed for just one year?????Hunting is necessary buddy. I suggest you do some research in ecology or environmental management before you react just for the sake of reacting.
I will agree that killing domestic animals is wrong,but hunting wild game.....I dont think so
Last edited by Iowa; 12-14-2004 at 04:27 PM.
12-14-2004, 04:23 PM #5
im not gonna get started on this... why dont u peta ppl stand in front of the bear before i shoot it.. do the world a favor and get a dam job
12-14-2004, 04:27 PM #6Originally Posted by Iowa
that is sooo fookin true.....the cops here in ft bend county will let you shoot wild hog from the side of the road WHILE IN A NEIGHBORHOOD because there are so many of them....they are tearing up the new neighborhoods and causing wrecks because they aren't afraid of ppl and have no problem making camp in your flowerbed......
12-14-2004, 04:28 PM #7Originally Posted by DADDYDBOL
12-14-2004, 05:02 PM #8
Please read the whole article before answering, from your answers I can tell not many read the whole thing, went to defend hunting without reading the whole article... and Iowa the resources of the essay are in the bottom of the article.. it wasnt a hippie tree hugger, lol.
12-14-2004, 05:06 PM #9Originally Posted by Dimes
BTW resources are where the information was gathered from, not who wrote the article. I dont see an authors name anywhere
12-14-2004, 05:12 PM #10
well ill tell u, if i cant hunt bears, and i might retire from huntin(retire as if i achived anything..lol) then i will be forced to hunt peta ppl and whiny ppl who complain about hunting.. so how fast can u run.. not faster than my 270
12-14-2004, 05:14 PM #11Originally Posted by Decadbal
you huntin bear with a 270???? i hope you can run fast....lol
12-14-2004, 05:18 PM #12Originally Posted by DADDYDBOL
12-14-2004, 05:19 PM #13
i know...just messin with you lol
12-14-2004, 05:21 PM #14
It is a paper done by an animal right organization, got it from a meeting on animal right organization here in puerto rico... forgot the organization, sorry.. it is written based on the information from thosereferences.
12-14-2004, 05:31 PM #15
Just thought I would put my 2 cents in. I like to shoot and hunt. It does no good to argue about this issue, neither side will change. (I'm not giving up my guns) It's an American thing, why should we give it up? Can't we all just get along?
12-14-2004, 05:32 PM #16
ya, can't grill it until you kill it!
12-14-2004, 05:34 PM #17
I discredit that whole article after reading the second paragraph where it states that people are allowed to hunt on wildlife refuges.... Not sure about puerto rico, but in Wisconsin, wildlife refuges are designed to provide nature with a natural habitat that CANNOT be disturbed by hunters...
And im not 100% positive, but I thought that hunting was prohibited in state parks as well??
Originally Posted by Dimes
12-14-2004, 05:37 PM #18
There both on the same team regarding the enviroment
The politics of hunting creates fluid ********s
by Elizabeth Manning
While nonprofit groups like Ducks Unlimited or People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals have sharply defined positions on hunting, most environmental groups - composed of both avid hunters and anti-hunters - waffle somewhere in the middle.
Hunting is an issue most environmental groups choose to ignore, even though many groups, such as the Wilderness Society, were started by "hook and bullet" users to protect diminishing habitat. Others, such as the Audubon Society and the Sierra Club, trace their roots to founders sympathetic to animal rights.
Staffers from most groups, when asked if they had an official position on hunting, seemed perplexed: "Uh, I’ll have to call you back on that." But once cajoled into taking a position, most repeated the same refrain: "It doesn’t matter whether you like to hike, bike or hunt on the land, we’re all in this for the sake of habitat conservation."
To the horror of many animal rights advocates, most environmentalists say the individual suffering of animals is secondary to the health of the species.
Wayne Pacelle of the Humane Society of the United States concedes that most groups have other priorities, but he doesn’t see habitat protection and animal rights as inconsistent goals. "Obviously, they’re not in the business of cats or dogs or farm or lab animals. It’s a misplaced concern to criticize them on that front, but the humane treatment of wildlife must be a consideration."
An article in E magazine’s October issue echoes that criticism: "The concern (for wildlife) is that much more real when the individual face of an animal is attached to it. Environmentalism’s distant "ecosystem" approach sometimes lacks visceral appeal." The article also points out that while animal advocates generally call themselves environmentalists, "environmentalists tend to see the animal movement as hysterical, shrill and "one note." "
Despite philosophical rifts, politics can make for strange bedfellows. Animal rights activists sometimes find themselves aligned with those they consider heartless killers. A few years ago in Hawaii, members of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals successfully stopped the Nature Conservancy from using wire snares to kill feral pigs that were destroying rare native plants. PETA nicknamed the Conservancy the "Torture Conservancy" and joined forces with local hunters who wanted to hunt and eat the pigs. Now, dogs chase down the pigs and a hunter stabs the animal in the throat.
It’s not the most humane solution, says David Cantor of PETA, but the suffering lasts minutes, rather than days or even weeks as with wire snares.
Although staffers at most environmental groups say they have more in common with hunting organizations than with animal-rights groups, several environmental groups joined the Fund for Animals to lobby for the creation of a national park - and not a preserve - in California’s Mojave Desert. Because hunting is outlawed in most national parks, the National Rifle Association lobbied on behalf of bighorn sheep and mule deer hunters who wanted a preserve.
"The NRA took it on as a symbolic fight," says Melanie Griffin of the Sierra Club. "They said: "You can’t keep our guns out." " At Mojave, the guns won.
But in another case, sporting groups joined environmentalists to oppose New Mexico Republican Sen. Pete Domenici’s grazing bill. Both groups were angered that the bill placed grazing above all other public land uses. And consensus isn’t only with the sporting groups; Pacelle of the Humane Society adds that his group often works with environmental groups on ballot initiatives banning "cruel" hunting.
In fact, ********s between environmentalists and groups on both sides of the hunting questions are getting stronger in the face of an environmentally hostile Congress, says the Sierra Club’s Griffin. "It wasn’t clear why we needed each other before," she says. "But when Congress started attacking our basic environmental protections, we overlooked smaller differences."
* Elizabeth Manning
12-14-2004, 05:39 PM #19Originally Posted by OSTIE
12-14-2004, 05:43 PM #20
in NC and Ga, if you get caught hunting in a refuge its a 20,000fine and 6months in jail...
12-14-2004, 05:44 PM #21Originally Posted by Dimes
12-14-2004, 05:44 PM #22
Although I don't agree with the position, I commend you on taking a more mature route to express your opinions.
I hunt and fish...but only take what I will eat. I do believe that nature will thin a population when it's needed but its generally by starvation and disease. I'd rather take a bullet or arrow than die a slow death. JMO.
12-14-2004, 05:45 PM #23Originally Posted by Decadbal
yep and in tx they take everything you own....trucks guns whatever you have is now theirs.....
12-14-2004, 05:45 PM #24
Nice input on the thread jdawg, this thread was started so comments from both parties can be read and looked at without getting on the defensive right away.
12-14-2004, 05:45 PM #25Originally Posted by Decadbal
12-14-2004, 05:47 PM #26Originally Posted by Dimes
12-14-2004, 05:48 PM #27Originally Posted by Jdawg50
12-14-2004, 05:53 PM #28Originally Posted by OSTIE
12-14-2004, 05:56 PM #29
As for Puerto Rico.. here people hunt at their houses, lol, so im not really sure about the laws here... can tell you they are not enforced at all.
12-14-2004, 05:57 PM #30Originally Posted by Dimes
12-14-2004, 06:03 PM #31
JDAWg i was talking about other people on the defensive, not you, sorry , it sounded like it was directed to you, you have stated your opinion very nicely and calm
12-14-2004, 06:04 PM #32
As far as I am concerned, if a true vegetertian is against hunting I will respect his opinion. He after all practices what he preaches. I may not agree with him, but I respect him.
On the other hand anyone who eats meat, fish or the product of any other sentient being and who badmouths hunting/fishing is a hypocrite of the worse kind. They let someone else do the killing for them but don't have the balls to look their meal in the eyes before killing it and eating it. Thats just sad.
My 2 cents worth...
12-14-2004, 06:05 PM #33Originally Posted by Dimes
BTW how is it down there in good old PR? I'm heading to the DR pretty soon (March) can't wait!
12-14-2004, 06:11 PM #34
Thanks red ketchup, and I have been a vegetarian for the last 3 years... I hate vegetables, but because of been into animal right i thought it was hypocrite to defend animals while eating a juicy chicken, lol and jdawg the weather here is great right now.. not to hot, not too cold, its perfect. enjoy your trip, i have heard it is wonderful over there, wanna go someday.
12-14-2004, 06:14 PM #35Originally Posted by Dimes
12-14-2004, 06:20 PM #36
Theres so many deer around here that IL has opened shot gun season to any firearm other than rifle (muzzleloader, shot gun, pistol) to get more people to hunt. Those damm things eat all the corn and beans and leave huge trails all over the place. We eat what we kill becuase we dont buy meat at the store.
12-14-2004, 06:23 PM #37
Not vegan, have tried it, but havent been able...i use soy protein... plus my shakes need the milk.. alot of people like soy milk i personally cant stand it.
12-14-2004, 06:46 PM #38
Shiet ... i just killed a cockaroach.
12-14-2004, 06:54 PM #39Originally Posted by Dimes
Second, I hate hunting although I fully support anyone's right to do it in the US and find it funny that you support animal's rights, but you're the same guy that said it was OK to bang a 14 year old girl. Priorities?
12-14-2004, 06:57 PM #40
WWHHHAAATTT ??? You going to hell now, lol, just kidding
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