12-14-2004, 05:19 PM #1
Teaching our children kindness and compassion to all sentinent beings.
I just started a thread about hunting and how it is cruel, someone answered saying they were going to teach their kids to hunt.. I think that is child abuse. Why teach your child to kill instead of compassion and love for all life in general... A child is too young to understand this is a living, sentinent being.. that it feels pain .. teaching a child to kill for fun is just plain wrong.. heres another article I found. I have two daughters and if I ever see them doing something to hurt an animal, even if its throwing a rock at a bird or a mouse or one of our two dogs, I stop them.... tell them, would you like if someone hit you, or threw a rock at you? When you do that to them it hurts them, they feel pain too and I have to say they have carried on with that way of thinking, if they see a dog in the street or a bird or any animal , now they want to help it instead of hit it or kick it like alot of the other kids, they have learned compassion.. my 4 year old saw a homeless guy the other days and asked me to get him a meal, didnt have much money, but it was worth it, anyway, back to the subject at hand......
Animal Abuse and Human Abuse: Partners in Crime
Violent acts toward animals have long been recognized as indicators of a dangerous psychopathy that does not confine itself to animals. "Anyone who has accustomed himself to regard the life of any living creature as worthless is in danger of arriving also at the idea of worthless human lives," wrote humanitarian Dr. Albert Schweitzer. "Murderers ... very often start out by killing and torturing animals as kids," according to Robert K. Ressler, who developed profiles of serial killers for the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). Studies have now convinced sociologists, lawmakers, and the courts that acts of cruelty toward animals deserve our attention. They can be the first sign of a violent pathology that includes human victims.
A Long Road of Violence
Animal abuse is not just the result of a minor personality flaw in the abuser, but a symptom of a deep mental disturbance. Research in psychology and criminology shows that people who commit acts of cruelty against animals don’t stop there; many of them move on to their fellow humans.
The FBI has found that a history of cruelty to animals is one of the traits that regularly appear in its computer records of serial rapists and murderers, and the standard diagnostic and treatment manual for psychiatric and emotional disorders lists cruelty to animals as a diagnostic criterion for conduct disorders. (1)
Studies have shown that violent and aggressive criminals are more likely to have abused animals as children than criminals considered non-aggressive. (2) A survey of psychiatric patients who had repeatedly tortured dogs and cats found that all of them had high levels of aggression toward people as well, including one patient who had murdered a boy. (3) To researchers, a fascination with cruelty to animals is a red flag in the lives of serial rapists and killers. (4)
Says Robert Ressler, founder of the FBI’s behavioral sciences unit, "These are the kids who never learned it’s wrong to poke out a puppy’s eyes." (5)
History is replete with notorious examples: Patrick Sherrill, who killed 14 coworkers at a post office and then shot himself, had a history of stealing local pets and allowing his own dog to attack and mutilate them.(6) Earl Kenneth Shriner, who raped, stabbed, and mutilated a 7-year-old boy, had been widely known in his neighborhood as the man who put firecrackers in dogs’ rectums and strung up cats.(7) Brenda Spencer, who opened fire at a San Diego school, killing two children and injuring nine others, had repeatedly abused cats and dogs, often by setting their tails on fire.(8) Albert DeSalvo, the "Boston Strangler" who killed 13 women, trapped dogs and cats in orange crates and shot arrows through the boxes in his youth.(9) Carroll Edward Cole, executed for five of the 35 murders of which he was accused, said his first act of violence as a child was to strangle a puppy.(10) In 1987, three Missouri high school students were charged with the beating death of a classmate. They had histories of repeated acts of animal mutilation starting several years earlier. One confessed that he had killed so many cats he’d lost count. (11) Two brothers who murdered their parents had previously told classmates that they had decapitated a cat.(12) Serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer had impaled dogs’ heads, frogs, and cats on sticks.(13)
More recently, high school killers such as 15-year-old Kip Kinkel in Springfield, Ore., and Luke Woodham, 16, in Pearl, Miss., tortured animals before embarking on shooting sprees.(14) Columbine High School students Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, who shot and killed 12 classmates before turning their guns on themselves, bragged about mutilating animals to their friends.(15)
"There is a common theme to all of the shootings of recent years," says Dr. Harold S. Koplewicz, director of the Child Study Center at New York University. "You have a child who has symptoms of aggression toward his peers, an interest in fire, cruelty to animals, social isolation, and many warning signs that the school has ignored."(16)
Sadly, many of these criminals’ childhood violence went unexamined—until it was directed toward humans. As anthropologist Margaret Mead noted, "One of the most dangerous things that can happen to a child is to kill or torture an animal and get away with it."(17)
Animal Cruelty and Family Violence
Because domestic abuse is directed toward the powerless, animal abuse and child abuse often go hand in hand. Parents who neglect an animal’s need for proper care or abuse animals may also abuse or neglect their own children. Some abusive adults who know better than to abuse a child in public have no such qualms about abusing an animal publicly.
In 88 percent of 57 New Jersey families being treated for child abuse, animals in the home had been abused.(18) Of 23 British families with a history of animal neglect, 83 percent had been identified by experts as having children at risk of abuse or neglect.(19) In one study of battered women, 57 percent of those with pets said their partners had harmed or killed the animals. One in four said that she stayed with the batterer because she feared leaving the pet behind.(20)
While animal abuse is an important sign of child abuse, the parent isn’t always the one harming the animal. Children who abuse animals may be repeating a lesson learned at home; like their parents, they are reacting to anger or frustration with violence. Their violence is directed at the only individual in the family more vulnerable than themselves: an animal. One expert says, "Children in violent homes are characterized by ... frequently participating in pecking-order battering," in which they may maim or kill an animal. Indeed, domestic violence is the most common background for childhood cruelty to animals.(21)
Stopping the Cycle of Abuse
There is "a consensus of belief among psychologists ... that cruelty to animals is one of the best examples of the continuity of psychological disturbances from childhood to adulthood. In short, a case for the prognostic value of childhood animal cruelty has been well documented," according to the Cornell University College of Veterinary Medicine.(22)
Schools, parents, communities, and courts who shrug off animal abuse as a "minor" crime are ignoring a time bomb. Instead, communities should be aggressively penalizing animal abusers, examining families for other signs of violence, and requiring intensive counseling for perpetrators. Communities must recognize that abuse to ANY living individual is unacceptable and endangers everyone.
In 1993, California became the first state to pass a law requiring animal control officers to report child abuse. Voluntary abuse-reporting measures are also on the books in Ohio, Connecticut, and Washington, D.C. Similar legislation has been introduced in Florida. "Pet abuse is a warning sign of abuse to the two-legged members of the family," says the bill’s sponsor, Representative Steve Effman. "We can’t afford to ignore the connection any longer."(23)
Additionally, children should be taught to care for and respect animals in their own right. After extensive study of the links between animal abuse and human abuse, two experts concluded, "The evolution of a more gentle and benign relationship in human society might, thus, be enhanced by our promotion of a more positive and nurturing ethic between children and animals."(24)
What You Can Do:
• Urge your local school and judicial systems to take cruelty to animals seriously. Laws must send a strong message that violence against any feeling creature—human or other-than-human—is unacceptable.
• Be aware of signs of neglect or abuse in children and animals. Take children seriously if they report animals’ being neglected or mistreated. Some children won’t talk about their own suffering but will talk about an animal’s.
• Don’t ignore even minor acts of cruelty to animals by children. Talk to the child and the child’s parents. If necessary, call a social worker.
1. Daniel Goleman, "Child’s Love of Cruelty May Hint at the Future Killer," The New York Times, 7 Aug. 1991.
2. "Animal Abuse Forecast of Violence," New Orleans Times-Picayune, 1 Jan. 1987.
3. Alan R. Felthous, "Aggression Against Cats, Dogs, and People," Child Psychiatry and Human
Development, 10 (1980), 169-177.
5. Robert Ressler, quoted in "Animal Cruelty May Be a Warning," Washington Times, 23 June 1998.
6. International Association of Chiefs of Police, The Training Key, No. 392, 1989.
7. The Animals’ Voice, Fall 1990.
8. The Humane Society News, Summer 1986.
9. International Association of Chiefs of Police.
12. Lorraine Adams, "Too Close for Comfort," The Washington Post, 4 Apr. 1995.
14. Deborah Sharp, "Animal Abuse Will Often Cross Species Lines," USA Today, 28 Apr. 2000.
15. Mitchell Zuckoff, "Loners Drew Little Notice," Boston Globe, 22 Apr. 1999.
16. Ethan Bronner, "Experts Urge Swift Action to Fight Depression and Aggression," The New York Times, p. A21.
17. Margaret Mead, Ph.D, "Cultural Factors in the Cause and Prevention of Pathological Homicide," Bulletin in the Menninger Clinic, No. 28 (1964),
18. Elizabeth DeViney, Jeffrey Dickert, and Randall Lockwood, "The Care of Pets Within Child-Abusing Families," International Journal for the Study of
Animal Problems, 4 (1983) 321-329.
19. "Child Abuse and Cruelty to Animals," Washington Humane Society.
21. Cornell University College of Veterinary Medicine, Animal Health Newsletter, Nov. 1994.
24. Stephen R. Kellert, Ph.D., and Alan R. Felthous, M.D., "Childhood Cruelty Toward Animals Among Criminals and Noncriminals," Archives of General Psychiatry, Nov. 1983
12-14-2004, 05:20 PM #2
that was me and **** you make some long ass threads....my kids and i'll abuse them if i want....lol
12-14-2004, 05:21 PM #3I just started a thread about hunting and how it is cruel, someone answered saying they were going to teach their kids to hunt.. I think that is child abuse. Why teach your child to kill instead of compassion and love for all life in general... A child is too young to understand this is a living, sentinent being.. that it feels pain .. teaching a child to kill for fun is just plain wrong.. heres another article I found. I have two daughters and if I ever see them doing something to hurt an animal, even if its throwing a rock at a bird or a mouse or one of our two dogs, I stop them.... tell them, would you like if someone hit you, or threw a rock at you? When you do that to them it hurts them, they feel pain too and I have to say they have carried on with that way of thinking, if they see a dog in the street or a bird or any animal , now they want to help it instead of hit it or kick it like alot of the other kids, they have learned compassion.. my 4 year old saw a homeless guy the other days and asked me to get him a meal, didnt have much money, but it was worth it, anyway, back to the subject at hand......
lmao.....thats good....i bet my kids beat your kids up....
12-14-2004, 05:26 PM #4
when are people going to learn its a cruel world and we live in it....everything isn't cotton candy and bubblegum...
i learned the value of life when i shot my first doe and had to watch her die.....i relized how much power a person with a gun has and was actually scared of the gun for a while.....
now please take your liberal cr@p somewhere else where it will do some good.....like the inner city where 15yr old kids are offing each other everyday in the streets.....oh wait thats not their fault right?
12-14-2004, 05:26 PM #5
i think raising yoru kids in puerto rico is child abuse...
12-14-2004, 05:26 PM #6
I disagree with this post.... these people abusing and torturing animals is not the same as hunting.... If you talk to hunters who truly love the sport, you will find that they have the utmost respect for animals and nature.
So that discredits your violence is from people abusing animals or torturing them and linking this to hunting.
And while im sure there may be some studies linking people who commit crimes who also LEGALLY hunt, not torture, that doesnt neccessarily mean hunting leads to a criminal life.... to me thats like doing a study on criminals and finding out that 80% of them drank cafinated soda as kids so mountain dew should be held responsible. Sounds ridiculous doesnt it?
12-14-2004, 05:32 PM #7
Thats pretty sad you say your kids can beat up my kids, cuz like I said I have two daughters... are they going to be beating on women too? Anybody that has actually taken the time to read the post want to give their opinion?
12-14-2004, 05:34 PM #8
And comparing teaching a kid to use a gun and kill with it, to drinking mountain dew is kind of a bad comparison.
12-14-2004, 05:35 PM #9
i read it, i dont understand why your tryin to stir up so much shiit, yea we get u dont like hunting...thats fine its your business, you dont need to make threads condeming ppl who do it, or even pretend you know about how they raise their children. drop it and find something better to do with life. like spend time with your daughters
12-14-2004, 05:35 PM #10
Plus dont you think killing someone is abuse? I think killing is the worst form of abuse.
12-14-2004, 05:37 PM #11
dimes....i want to let you know something bc i think you have a big heart.....about 5 years ago i was backing out of my moms driveway and ran over my pup....a 1yr old ridgeback....she almost made it out but my back tire caught her head.....my mom came running out of the house bc she saw it all....i sat in the front yard with my pup bleeding and squirmng in my arms trying to yelp but couldn't bc i had crushed her mouth.....i then cussed out god and everything in his fooked up world.....i also told him he better we never meet cause i got something for his ass.....after the anger went away i swore i would never kill another animal....
hunters are very respectful for the power they have....to take an animals life and i think more kids should learn that so maybe they will be less likely to kill another human....
12-14-2004, 05:40 PM #12
killing is not abuse it is a form of survival, where does meat come from? how the hell do you think they kill cows?
I am sorry but you are an extreme dumb a$$
Hunters kill as quickly and swiftly as possible. They understand what happens and the vast majority would not like to see an animal suffer.
12-14-2004, 05:40 PM #13Originally Posted by Dimes
Maybe if their parents arent so busy tellin the rest of the country how to live their lives as this article does, and maybe spend more time raising their children instead of letting tv raise them, they wouldnt become social misfits who hate life and turn to torching animals and killing other kids.
I have talked to many great members on here who hunt just as I do, who were all raised on the outdoors and hunting just as I was, and they are genuine, good-hearted people. It seems to me if taught how its supposed to, hunting gives people more of a respect to not only animal life, but human life as well. Your article fails to show any research on this correlation, however.
12-14-2004, 05:45 PM #14
And by the way do you think any people would actually put out tuna/antifreeze to kill a cat. seriously we just say **** like that becasue our internet cocks are 13 inches long
12-14-2004, 05:49 PM #15
This is interesting from someone who stated in a recent thread that he hit two children in his neighborhood with something he shot out of a sling shot. How do you justify that action .... with your strong, anti-violence stance!
12-14-2004, 05:51 PM #16Originally Posted by Commando_Barbi
12-14-2004, 05:54 PM #17
The NRA is a very strong force also... hard to go up against them, lol. Like I said in my thread... this thread was started so comments from both parties can be read and looked at without getting on the defensive right away.. it wasnt an attack ... the best way to understand hunters is to hear their opinions out and vice versa.. if you feel attacked by the thread or are pissed about it.. a million otter threads out there on other subjects. Sorry for your pup daddydbol... my dad had a montero, ran over my pup at that time.. i dont know how she survived, but she is still alive 7 years later, I just think shes a big survivor... when I got her she had been living in the street for a couple of months without her mom, dont klnow how she survived.
12-14-2004, 05:55 PM #18
when u compare teaching someones own children, not yours or a strangers that hunting is child abuse...thats an attack.
12-14-2004, 06:01 PM #19
Commmando barbi I knew you were going to post that, lol, I was trying to use reverse psycholgy,, talking about cats everyone agreed that instead of closing the garage or finding a better way to stop the cats, he should shoot them right away.. mention kids and when i did that, some people thought it was really stupid that i shot the kids instead of thinking of a better way to solve it before getting violent. The kids getting in my yard really did happen... now I put a big lock on the gate when I go out and when im at home I just watch them closely.. they just love my dogs...if you would have never mentioned you were a cop I would have known, very good detective,
12-14-2004, 06:06 PM #20Originally Posted by Decadbal
Was that neccesary... have you ever been to puerto rico, have you been to our schools? I dont like this comment, sounds a little racist
12-14-2004, 06:08 PM #21Originally Posted by Dimes
12-14-2004, 06:17 PM #22
im puerto rican..thats a race.
12-14-2004, 06:20 PM #23
then you should be able to tell the difference in spelling...puerto rican...puerto ricO. i said nothing of ppl, just a place.. watch where yo ustep from now on, bc your messin up if u keep this kinda blatent race card crap up
12-14-2004, 06:25 PM #24
And i dont consider that funny or a joke, im offended by it, if you dont like my thread... go to other threads.
12-14-2004, 06:27 PM #25Originally Posted by Dimes
dude chill....your starting something you can't finish....
12-14-2004, 06:28 PM #26
You say my island is not a good place to race my kids , your insulting my race, you cant insult a country, without insulting its people... im not gonna continue this nonsense with you and let you hijack my thread.
12-14-2004, 06:29 PM #27Originally Posted by Dimes
12-14-2004, 06:31 PM #28
your thread is hijacked, i change my mind, im gonna post here now, and i was phuckin jokin for hte last time. making an obvious stupid statement much like someone who teachs their children to hunt is abusing them.. anyway, who are all the hunters here? i went last weekend and am going fri and sat.
12-14-2004, 06:34 PM #29
12-14-2004, 06:34 PM #30
and I said your comment sounded a little racist... didnt call you a racist, case closed,
12-14-2004, 06:37 PM #31Originally Posted by Dimes
12-14-2004, 06:41 PM #32Originally Posted by DADDYDBOL
12-14-2004, 06:45 PM #33Anabolic Member
Originally Posted by Dimes
- Join Date
- Mar 2004
12-14-2004, 06:45 PM #34Originally Posted by Dimes
You also seem to change who you are every couple days as well.... before your an immature 22 yr old who likes to have sex with little kids, now your a grown adult with 2 female children.
12-14-2004, 06:49 PM #35
Common ostie, I cleared both of those posts up, go read them, everyone misunderstood them... sorry if i misunderstood, you decadbal... got a little mad, if i told you that to raise your children in the usa was abuse, you would have probably reacted the same way
12-14-2004, 06:52 PM #36Originally Posted by Dimes
12-14-2004, 06:53 PM #37
And i dont remeber saying I liked having sex with little kids.... thats weird, can it be someone is making up stuff? Plus I dont remeber telling hunters to kill cops, lol, you sure make up some good stories. Am i going to have to post everything again here of thopse two posts?
12-14-2004, 06:55 PM #38Originally Posted by Dimes
12-14-2004, 06:55 PM #39
YOU ALREADY SAID you werent racists decadbal, no fun no more, lol
12-14-2004, 06:56 PM #40
i heard kobe likes to screw 14yr old girls before going hunting....lol
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