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  1. #1
    CYCLEON Guest

    Surviving a knife attack

    Knife Fight!
    Facing an Edged Weapon
    by Tim Larkin


    The terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon have reminded us that there are times when regular people are going to face inescapable, violent confrontations. The weapons of choice this time were box cutters and knives with blades under four inches (Leatherman tools according to reports). No special plastic guns, no exotic explosive devices, just simple tools you can purchase at any hardware store.

    Yet these simple devices were enough to hold off 60 to 80 people in three of the four doomed airliners. Passengers on United Flight 93 took action and seemingly thwarted the efforts of the terrorists. Although unable to save themselves, these heroes most certainly saved lives by denying the terrorists yet another high profile target by forcing the plane to crash in rural Pennsylvania.

    I place all the blame for these actions on those zealots who committed the atrocious attacks. Their paymasters and so-called leaders will soon pay the piper. But I do think itís critical that we all take a close look at edged weapons and learn the "doís and doníts" when facing an attacker who wields them.


    The Real Threat of an Edged Weapon

    You need to understand that knives, razors and other edged weapons enjoy a tremendous psychological intimidation factor. Most people assume theyíre doomed if they try to attack a knife wielding thug. Thatís not always the case if you possess just a little knowledge of the true dangers of edged weapons.

    The real threat posed by any edged weapon is penetration of the blade. Any blade piercing more than two inches into your body can rapidly produce lethal results. Vital organs, major arteries and veins all are in danger when the blade penetrates the body.

    The Roman Legions conquered the world realizing this fact. The famous military tactician and historian, Vegetius, writes of how the Romans would make fun of their much larger opponents who would slash and hack with the edge of their weapons rather than stab and thrust. The smaller Romans found these much larger, more physically powerful foes easy prey to the straight thrusts of their short swords. Why? Because they knew slashes and hacks rarely killed, regardless of how powerful the blow. The Romans would trade a twelve inch long slash for a two-inch stab any day.

    So what does this history lesson have to do with the gang banger with a Ginsu whoís trapped you in an alley? Well, it seems like times havenít changed. According to the Department of Justice statistics on edged weapon assaults, the first three to five strikes in a knife attack are slashes and more importantly, these first strikes are not lethal in nature!

    Many studies have been done not only on the criminal use of edged weapons but on the military use of edged weapons in combat. The conclusions are the same: thereís a strong, innate revulsion by the majority of the human population to stabbing edged weapons into another human. There are many psychological reasons given for this aversion to penetration, but what you need to know is that this little known fact can save your life in a lethal confrontation.


    A "Knife Fighter" vs. "Fighting With A Knife"

    You need to know the difference between a "knife fighter" and "fighting with a knife." But first, letís be really clear about something: if you ever face an attacker who pulls a knife and you can escape to safety, then run! Leave the Hollywood hero crap to the actors in the action films (or, more accurately, their stuntmen). If you can get away, then do it. For the purposes of this article, weíre assuming you canít avoid a confrontation.

    Most knife wielders would be put into the category of a knife fighter. A "knife fighter" is an attacker who focuses solely on the weapon he grips in his hand. Itís his ultimate tool of intimidation and if he didnít possess the knife heíd feel weaponless. On the other hand, a person trained to "fight with a knife" realizes the knife is just a tool and that he has a myriad of effective body weapons available to him whether he possesses the knife or not.

    Very few people are trained to fight with a knife, so in 99% of the cases youíll likely face a knife fighter. Since you understand that your danger comes not from the knife itself, but from the brain of the attacker holding the knife, then you have an advantage.


    Weapons Systems of The Human Body

    Think of the body as a set of weapons systems. Your primary weapon system is your brain and your secondary weapon system is your body. Every other weapon you can think of ó knife, club, or firearm ó is ancillary or useless without the first two systems in place.

    Without the brain, you canít command the finger to pull the trigger or thrust the knife or swing the club. So it only makes sense that your mission in a life and death situation is to shut down your attackerís brain or central nervous system (CNS). That is your guarantee to defeating your attacker as this diagram clearly shows:

    No CNS = No Body = No Knife = No Threat

    Facing an edged weapon threat, you now know you have a high likelihood of facing a non-lethal slashing attack first. Also, when you face an attacker whoís focused on the knife giving him his power, heíll focus on using the knife to fend off your attack rather than protect his central nervous system. So your focus needs to be on attacking his primary weapon system while he focuses on using his ancillary weapon (his knife) against you. This leads us to the next step.


    How To Take Out Your Knife-Brandishing Attacker

    Quick review on the principles covered so far:

    ē Stabs are lethal. Slashes or cuts are rarely lethal.

    ē Most knife attacks are initially slashing attacks.

    ē You need to focus on destroying the knife fighterís CNS.

    So how do you get to the attackerís central nervous system? Iím about to present a simple set of strikes that are combat proven, extremely effect, and deceptively simple to execute. Speed and strength arenít required to execute any of them, just your sheer determination.

    As there are numerous methods of attacks, Iím in no way implying this is the only way to handle this type of attack. But Iíve trained hundreds of clients successfully with these methods and received numerous testimonials as to the effectiveness of this approach.


    One Proven Approach

    First you need to close distance; no good if you stand off and dance in and out with an attacker. That allows him to slice and dice you at will. You need to be close. Your focus isnít on the knife but on his neck; your target is his CNS.

    The body weapons of choice are your forearms. That three inches of bone above the break of your wrist is your bodyís own personal piece of lead pipe. The hand has approximately 72 bones in it and can easily break or fracture if not properly set. The forearm needs no special position and is an extremely powerful striking weapon.

    As you quickly close distance, merely attack with full downward circle strikes. Imagine your arms rotating in front of your body like two propellers ó your left rotates clockwise, your right counter clockwise. The striking surface of your wrists rotate six to eight inches in front of your torso. This attack not only provides protection of your torso area but generates incredible striking power for this assault as you rush in.

    This is a violent assault designed to strike the assailant in multiple targets of his body. Your first strikes will hit his arms and rapidly advance up his body. With your focus on his neck, youíll soon find yourself well above his knife and in his center core. There, you can use your forearms strikes to:

    1) Crush his windpipe; the windpipe has the consistency of copper tubing and crushes easily.

    2) Strike the Vagus nerve (follow the neck from the earlobes down, this nerve runs up and down that line on either side). Youíll know when you hit the nerve because itís an instant knockout. Your attackerís eyes roll straight up, his knees buckle, and he collapses straight down in a lump.

    3) You can also use your thumbs to gouge out his eyes. Simply open-hand slap him on the ears and place your thumbs in the sockets and gouge.

    Any one of these three strikes will take out his central nervous system and immediately allow you to control or kill him as the circumstances dictate.

    Youíll notice I didnít discuss what happened with the knife. During that confrontation you probably received a couple of cuts or slashes and you may need stitchesÖ but youíre alive and heís either dead or out of commission. Most likely you never felt the cuts or slashes because you were focused on your mission to take him out. Your wounds can be healed and you can go home and kiss your kids goodnight.


    Final Notes

    This is just one of a myriad of possible ways I teach normal guys ó as well as the most highly trained commandos ó how to take out an attacker wielding an edged weapon. The main focus is to maintain the offensive state of mind in a high threat environment. Focus on what youíll do to your attacker rather than trying to defend against what heís trying to do to you.

    Make no mistake, edged weapons are very dangerous, but you can increase your chances of victory in an unavoidable life or death scenario using the above principles. Donít get caught up with the martial arts knife fighter scenarios. Itís highly unlikely youíll ever meet a highly trained martial artist or well-trained operator who fights with a knife. Itís far more likely youíll be dealing with a criminal whoís used to everyone cowering when he pulls his knife.

    Imagine his surprise when you decide not to play his game.

  2. #2
    Billy Boy's Avatar
    Billy Boy is offline Retired Moderator
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    Very good post Cyc

    I train in Ju Jitsu and the first thing we were taught is if you,re attacker shows you the knife chances are he is not prepaired to use it it is to intidimate you .These sort of conditions are easy to handle but will be governed on your speed to think react and experience.As Cyc rightly pointed out a slash is better than a stab.Don,t try to block its pointless you need to move from the blade.

    The other type of attack is the guy who walks upto you and just stabs you.No matter what martial arts exp you have you can,rt do shit .

    No martial art will make you safe.Period.I,ve studied 3 different styles.What it does do is make you aware you assess a situation and you begin to think "what if" The difference between life and death is simply our wits.

    Good post bro

    Billy

  3. #3
    dane26's Avatar
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    great post. way better than chicks with dicks. bump

  4. #4
    arthurb999's Avatar
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    I really should take some form of martial arts just in case.

    bump

  5. #5
    Tobey is offline Retired IRON CHEF Mod
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    Ok Cycleon Now gimme a break

    Hey Cycleon,
    I'm sitting here reading your post which was pretty good as post go. And I'm standing in front of my computer right? Trying to mimick what you have written. Shit,I got to laughing so hard I thought that I was going to die! I mean here I am by myself swinging my arms around imagining someone in front of me! It was harlious. I would imagine that who ever was yeilding the knife would probaly have started laughing so hard that I would get my chance to take a lucky shot. But kidding aside, there are alot of hand moves particularlly in our red belt form that deals with someone yeilding a weapon such as a knife. The trick is to react fast and precise which can only come from lots of pratice. Good post, Gonna go back to trying your technique out again. Maybe I can do it this time without looking like the village idoit haveing a seizure.
    Later,
    Tobey
    Ps. Please don't think that I am flamming you Cycleon, but man if you could have only seen what I looked like just then!

  6. #6
    Big Al's Avatar
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    Interesting, I've studied a few MA myself, bits here. (I must have missed this post).

    I practice more practical stuff now.

    I have had two incidents with real life knifes, both scared the shite our of me (almost literaly). And both I handled similarily, not as above but effectively, and IMO as Billy said most guys who pull a knife would be nothing without it they just want to initimate you, scared you, threaten you. Howver, these guys on the plane, that was a different story.

    Key thing I have learned is control your fear (adrenaline), it is the body's fight or flight mechanism which can defeat you before you attacker has had chance to.

  7. #7
    EXCESS's Avatar
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    I prefer a slap to the ear. If his eardrum is broken he has no balance.

  8. #8
    Cynical is offline Associate Member
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    Speaking of intimidation, size intimidates how ab you intimidate him by grunting and flexing , as for martial arts, Judo and Wrestling win the fighting championchip every year, they use yield fighting rather then force , aka taking your opent to the ground and chocking them, not sure how this would fair vs a knife as he could stab you in the back if you shot on his leg.

  9. #9
    Prime's Avatar
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    bump

  10. #10
    BOUNCER is offline Retired Vet
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime
    bump
    Children must play

  11. #11
    Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOUNCER
    Children must play
    i found it vaugely informative

  12. #12
    Jack87's Avatar
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    Talking

    Man you brought this one from the deep dark distant past... lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Prime
    bump

  13. #13
    Jack87's Avatar
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    I'll tell you how to survive a knife attack...

    Carry a gun...

  14. #14
    SplinterCell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buff87
    I'll tell you how to survive a knife attack...

    Carry a gun...

  15. #15
    Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buff87
    I'll tell you how to survive a knife attack...

    Carry a gun...
    Naw you do what paul hogan did in crocodile dundee. "You call that a knife? Now this is a knife!" He pulls out a small sword Ah the good old days of classic cinema.

  16. #16
    Jack87's Avatar
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    Yeah that was a cool scene... I think I would have ran too...

    Quote Originally Posted by Prime
    Naw you do what paul hogan did in crocodile dundee. "You call that a knife? Now this is a knife!" He pulls out a small sword Ah the good old days of classic cinema.

  17. #17
    ReX357's Avatar
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    Nice post.

  18. #18
    Commando_Barbi's Avatar
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    The one and only moment I reconsidered becoming a cop....was when I saw the training video on surving double edged weapons.

  19. #19
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    The Vagus Nerve - That is what the karate master hit when he took down guido the killer pimp. Maybe Deca would let us practice on him.

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    Just out of curiosity has anyone here ever actually been in this situation ?

  21. #21
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    good post

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant Killer
    Just out of curiosity has anyone here ever actually been in this situation ?
    got a lil mark to prove it

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalMethodX
    got a lil mark to prove it
    Nice glad you didnt get any serious injuries from it. I have a scar from having my appendix removed so I can always pretend thats a stab wound thats about as close as ive got.

  24. #24
    damiongage's Avatar
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    If I were attacked by a person with a knife....

    I would hit him with....






































































































































    Blown SC.....just like using a bat

  25. #25
    sp9's Avatar
    sp9
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    Anyone watched Bas Rutten's, lethal street fighting dvd. Pretty good from someone with lots of street experience.

  26. #26
    J.S.N.'s Avatar
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    those peeps ont eh 9/11 planes didn't know they wuz gonna all die. otherwise they woulda given those islamic extremists an extreme whuppin'. (pun intented)

    they thought they wuz just gonna hijack dat sh1t and land it in cuba or somethin'.

  27. #27
    niXon)('s Avatar
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    did you hear about the guy that was a world class fighter or somthing? my dad was talking about it the other day. he was calling his wife from the plane and last thing she said he said, was i love you, then she heard in the background, "lets get it on" or somthing of that nature. this guy was like 300lbs plus...

  28. #28
    J.S.N.'s Avatar
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    i dunno if he was a fighter, but he was a big prolly tuff dude.

    what was kinda st00pid was he said, "let's roll" and then like some people tried to patent that phrase, as if it weren't part of the vernacular fo' decades.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Stamos' Nephew
    i dunno if he was a fighter, but he was a big prolly tuff dude.

    what was kinda st00pid was he said, "let's roll" and then like some people tried to patent that phrase, as if it weren't part of the vernacular fo' decades.
    yeah i wasnt fond of that .. he shoulda said something like EAT SHYT (insert lotsa racist comments here) sons of bytches!

  30. #30
    J-Dogg is offline Anabolic Member
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    There were a few bigger guys on there, if i remember right, none were fighters. 2 were large rugby players though. It was "lets roll" its the same line the man used when it was time to do somthing with his children.

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