Religion can't get my head round this

I know a lot of you are religous and whilst I do not believe nor disbelieve I always find somethings really strange,maybe these are stupid questions to you guys but for me they are real

If Gods place is to forgive why is there a Hell?

What purpose does Hell serve?Do you go there change your ways than allowed to Heaven?

I was talking to a mate about this and he said that it would be good to rid the world of all Evil and I agreed but the fact is if there was no evil there would be no good as they are the opposites of a fulcum.They go hand in hand.What do you guys think?Isn't Evil and Good in the eye of the witness?

I have actually thought about this. There has to be a Hell, otherwise these is no reason to be good. If God is going to love me and forgive me no matter what, than he is just a giant dumbass, people would walk all over him. So he makes Hell and says that this place is reserved for people who are evil.

Now what is evil. I think evil is individualized. If I do something and I know that it is wrong, then I think God is going to hold that against me. Example - the corprate millionairre that embezzles hundreds of thousands of dollars from Red Cross or something. But I think that if I kill someone to protect my family, then it will not count against me if I believe that was my olny choice.

I also think that most criminals, while they are disrespectful a**holes who are leaches off society, are not evil unless they think what they are doing is wrong.

Does that make sense?

Thats why they call it FAITH....There are so many unanswered questions about religion, not to mention so many religions....I for one come from a mixed background of religions..baptised catholic/reborn christian ....Father jewish??figure that?got uncle/cousins that are witnesses....boy talk about confused although we all agree that there is a higher power....

Is there a hell????Who knows.....
Is our lord a forgivng lord???We believe so although he has been known to show his wrath...
Was Jesus the son of god???Some say yes some say he was a prophet the son of mary and joseph...
Do we have to die to meet our lord????some say yes some say no....

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Originally posted by Diesel
My beliefs may be a bit unorthodox but here goes:
There is a Heaven and a Hell. Hell is where we are right now. Hell is life. If you succeed in life you move on, if not you come back and do it all over again.
Here is why I think this. So many people and so many beliefs, there has to be truth in all of them to make up the 'whole'. Dejavue (sp?) why do some people have it and others do not? Because they have been here before and just F'd up somewhere along the way. I get it all the time.
How can it be explained that I have never been somewhere but know exactly where it is?
I am not a member of any formal religion but I believe they all have some value and truths.

OK, you guys can tell me I'm F'd up now.

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Diesel my friend!!

Thats were my thoughts lay that this life is in fact Hell its a test to prove our worthiness of heaven or greater things.That way it makes it clearer for me to understand all the religons throught the world.

Diesel if anyone thinks your f,kd up than add me to that list;)

Standard Christian here. I have always classified myself that way. I have read about many religions, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity and Islam. I think that it is in everyones best interest to spend time in their life figuring out what is best for them when it comes to religion. Too many people don't investigate their thoughts and learn about what is out there.

I think there was a Creator and he has a plan.

Anyway we could converse about this type of thing as long as we could talk about body building, my 2 cents is to spend some time in this area, it could make a difference in your life and the one after.

There are many different paths people can choic for there life. Most of them will lead them to God (our Creator). Our God is forgiving, good and funny, because look at what he gave us Free-Will (we do some funny stuff as free people). There is a Heaven and Hell (possible like Diesal said), but I think mainly there is a (one) Heaven that acts as both hell and heaven. In my opinion the worst evil is dening God of whom he is (our father, creator, etc.), so would not heaven be hell for those that deny God. I am only one person in the huge world and the only thing I hold true is you must walk in your FAITH not just follow it.



"What do we live for if not to make the world a little less difficult for each other?"

Good points but what makes you belive that there is a God and what makes you believe in that faith?

I,m not judging anyones opinions just trying to let you guys educate me some ;-)

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Originally posted by scottp999
Standard Christian here. I have always classified myself that way. I have read about many religions, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity and Islam. I think that it is in everyones best interest to spend time in their life figuring out what is best for them when it comes to religion. Too many people don't investigate their thoughts and learn about what is out there.

I think there was a Creator and he has a plan.

Anyway we could converse about this type of thing as long as we could talk about body building, my 2 cents is to spend some time in this area, it could make a difference in your life and the one after.

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:) I'm a Christian as well.

Just as Scott said, this topic is absolutly massive and we can talk forever about it, but to try to anwer the question of how does one know there is a God, I'll try to offer some stuff here.

Almost all religions recognize a Creator (God), in my opinion when honestly considered, it is harder to believe in nothing than to believe in something. I've heard that 90% of americans say yes there is a God (not sure on the exactly number but I remember it as 90, maybe be off a little, but regardless its incredibly high.) Now, that is not to say that 90% of americans are Christians (because Christianity is belief in Jesus).

Aside from this, there are many arguments for the existence of God apart from the Bible. I can point you in the right direction specificially if you are looking for some books to read on this, and I'm not talking about a Biblical perspective, I'm talking about actual scientifc and philosophical arguments for God's existence, which are actually quite fascinating for non-Christians and Christians.

Now, when the Bible is added, and the connections between prophesies (spelling) in the old and new testatment are examined, God's existence and the truth of Jesus become even more apparent.

I know there are probably people from all walks of life and religions here, I'm just saying what I myself believe.

Also, on a more recent note, a study was done by some scholars that examined the possibility of the creation of the world WITHOUT a Creator using a strictly scientific and mathematical approach. The resulting number was so staggering that it was virtually impossible to conceive such a world as ours occuring without a greator Creator. I'm not sure of the exact number and maybe I can dig up the actual report on the net, but if I remember correctly it was something like 1 in 10^43 power (that is 1 out of a number with 44 digits......) of a chance that the world was not created by a greater Power.

I think that a good number of people have the wrong idea of Christianity (as I did)... (maybe like many have the wrong idea about AAS as a analogy.)

The "why's" have drove me crazy for years. Being raised christian and believing without a doubt that there is a God I still can not understand the why's. They say you can not earn you way to heaven that it is by grace you are saved. True but grace is earned. God did not create earth until the devil was cast out of heaven. Why because without evil there could never be good in our eyes. Anyways I could go on and on.

I go to church now and still have a hard time. I understand your feeling here Billy I struggle with it always. I do not have any great words of wisdom here and I wish I did. I love God for my life yet I hate him sometimes for what is refered to as "free will". It is a fallacy in my mind.

Humm guys... I don't follow any of that. I think that there is a God. I just find it to hard to believe in the whole evolution thing. I mean this world is so complex there had to have been a creator of it all. But I think that God doesn't care about us, I think he just watches us like ants. If he is the all seeing all loving why would he let so many people suffer? I think that Jesus was....humm it's hard to put into words. I think he is like Daracula. In the sense that along time ago he was one thing and over the years people made him out to be something he wasn't. I bet Jesus was a nice guy who helped alot of people out. Then over the years people just blew the stories out of proportion. Next thing ya know he is walking on water and ect.....did that make sense?

BillyBoy and Diesel;

If you both believe that "Hell is where we are right now. Hell is life. If you succeed in life you move on, if not you come back and do it all over again." then you guys sound more like Buddhists than Christians. Buddha taught that life is suffering and until we find our true biddha nature and transcend the illusion of everyday life we are doomed to repeat the cycle of life over and over...

I can't buy the Christian belief system just because of of this dilema; I don't believe that an all-loving and all-powerful God can condemn anyone to eternal damnation. If he is all-loving he could not stand to hurt anyone to that degree, if he was all powerful he could find a solution, thus, if there is one soul in hell, he is either not all-powerful or all-loving.

The argument that you need evil to appreciate good fails for me as well. Do you need pain to understand pleasure? Not me; I can appreciate an orgasm without getting smacked up side the head with a 2-by-4...

well i am a Christian...first of all a lot of peopla can say there Christian but theres a difference between actully sayin that and livin da life. I know there is a God and hes son is Jesus...I have seen personally what God has done in my life since i accept his son Jesus as my saviour. I belive in EVERYTHING the bible says...belive it or not God does care and loves everyone...he gave us free will as humans to either live a life through him or not...thats why there is a heaven and hell...Heaven is for the people who choose to accept Jesus as there savior and hell is for people who didnt, i belive there or gonna be alot of good people who go to hell becuase they didnt accept Jesus into there life, also there or gonna be murders,rapist,thieves..etc that get into heaven simply because they confessed there sins and accepted Jesus as there saviour and let God lead there lifestyle.
God is a forgiving God and he will forgive ALL sins when u accept his son in your life.
Some people might say if there is a God why is there so much evil in da world..simple The Devil,Satan..whatever u wanna call him, hes whole purpouse is to kill,steal,and destroy. God has given Satan a certain amount of power on da earth..one example is the story of Job in da bible..find it and read it if u wanna know more about whatimean when i say that God has given Satan a certain amount of power.
This is what I belive...im not forceing my views on any1 else and i respect(dosnt mean i agree or belive) others beliefs..once again free will.

I hear Big Kev on this issue. It is hard to discuss these types of things. I would urge anyone that has an interest in learning arguments for why evil exists, does God exist, and all of these types of questions to go pick up a book on general/intro philosophy. It's great to read some of the greatest philosopher's arguments for and against these topics. I know for me reading these writings really got me interested, and helped me learn more about this area. I am not talking about reading hundreds of boring pages but 10-20 page summarys for each side. I really enjoyed it.

I am a lot more simple minded about some things than most folks. Not stupid - just uncomplicated. God is very loving and forgiving. Hell is for the folks who don't bother to ask for forgiveness. That's exactly what the bible says. Yes, Shonuff, it also says "No man commeth unto the Father except by me."

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Originally posted by shonuff
well i am a Christian...first of all a lot of peopla can say there Christian but theres a difference between actully sayin that and livin da life. I know there is a God and hes son is Jesus...I have seen personally what God has done in my life since i accept his son Jesus as my saviour. I belive in EVERYTHING the bible says...belive it or not God does care and loves everyone...he gave us free will as humans to either live a life through him or not...thats why there is a heaven and hell...Heaven is for the people who choose to accept Jesus as there savior and hell is for people who didnt, i belive there or gonna be alot of good people who go to hell becuase they didnt accept Jesus into there life, also there or gonna be murders,rapist,thieves..etc that get into heaven simply because they confessed there sins and accepted Jesus as there saviour and let God lead there lifestyle.
God is a forgiving God and he will forgive ALL sins when u accept his son in your life.
Some people might say if there is a God why is there so much evil in da world..simple The Devil,Satan..whatever u wanna call him, hes whole purpouse is to kill,steal,and destroy. God has given Satan a certain amount of power on da earth..one example is the story of Job in da bible..find it and read it if u wanna know more about whatimean when i say that God has given Satan a certain amount of power.
This is what I belive...im not forceing my views on any1 else and i respect(dosnt mean i agree or belive) others beliefs..once again free will.

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exactly, i also agree with scott and mrs T...

and i too consider myself a much more practicle person than most of the extreme academic types Im surrounded with at school....

But like scott and bigkev say, its hard to talk about this here. :)

and mrs t, nice to see a fellow arkansan on here :D

When are you people going to learn? It's not about who's right or wrong. No denomination's nailed it yet, and they never will because they're all too self-righteous to realize that it doesn't matter what you have faith in, just that you have faith. Your hearts are in the right place, but your brains need to wake up.

-Rufus, the 13th Apostle, "Dogma"

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Originally posted by BaSe
dont really believe anymore, did when i was kid, to me any god that would allow the holocost, murder rape famine, isnt someone to worship, i know the argument about free will, but i came to the conclusion for myself that i wont worship anything that would let these things happen, besides if all the party people are in hell and all those religious nuts who dont want to allow anyone to do anything are in heaven, then ill take a ticket to hell anyday

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Thats another area I find hard to understand why allow so much suffering in the world?this has to be Hell

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Originally posted by Ajax
BillyBoy and Diesel;

If you both believe that "Hell is where we are right now. Hell is life. If you succeed in life you move on, if not you come back and do it all over again." then you guys sound more like Buddhists than Christians. Buddha taught that life is suffering and until we find our true biddha nature and transcend the illusion of everyday life we are doomed to repeat the cycle of life over and over...

I can't buy the Christian belief system just because of of this dilema; I don't believe that an all-loving and all-powerful God can condemn anyone to eternal damnation. If he is all-loving he could not stand to hurt anyone to that degree, if he was all powerful he could find a solution, thus, if there is one soul in hell, he is either not all-powerful or all-loving.

The argument that you need evil to appreciate good fails for me as well. Do you need pain to understand pleasure? Not me; I can appreciate an orgasm without getting smacked up side the head with a 2-by-4...

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I believe more in the Buddha principles the way that it is expressed that you live on through someone else like a candle.Hence if I teach my children something and I die everytime they do it its a part of me living on within them.

As for do we need Evil to experience Good maybe so but its a good point you mention about pleasure and pain.