is lance the greatest?

**radar1234** · 07-12-2005, 03:41 PM

i am getting tired of these sports analysts saying that they would NOT consider lance armstrong one of the,or if not the,best athletes ever.id love to see any pro athlete do what he has done.
i am not saying that he could dominate all sports but he is imo the best endurance athlete ever.
what do u think?

**chest6** · 07-12-2005, 03:44 PM

Who's Lance?

**dprayvd** · 07-12-2005, 07:35 PM

LA is a better athlete on his worst day than almost any other on their finest (as are most pro cyclists). However, the Greatest? He has for sure changed permanently the way training for cycling (major stage racing) will be done for all who will follow (those who will win). BUT, the greatest?

Although he did win his rainbow stripes (world championship) in '92 (or '93?), he has NOT represented his country since in an Olympiad, or again contested the Worlds. A great, worldwide athlete does these things.

He has not contested to win two major tours in a single year (Pantani in '98 did and won--Giro/Tour).

Mercx raced from February to October year-in-year-out.

Many other "greats" can call to superiority before LA.

His contribution/credit/merit is the shift of the cycling paradigm. Anyone who follows cycling will understand. It is a shame, but after LA retires and some years have passed, a great many americans will no longer care about that "race in France" that was won so many times by a Texan.

Props to him, by all means. He is a singularity of athletic ability.

**kman** · 07-12-2005, 10:06 PM

Lance is not only one of the greatest athletes in the world, he is more of an amazing person. To come back and win 6 times after beating cancer is amazing..

**SprinterOne** · 07-12-2005, 10:06 PM

You can't just say "I would love to see other athletes do what he does." I would love to see Lance hit a baseball like Bonds, shoot hoops like MJ, or throw the football like Montana. Hell, how about run as fast as Carl Lewis? Almost impossible to say who the greatest athlete is.

**abstrack** · 07-12-2005, 10:11 PM

How can you judge one man who is sport specific and call him the greatest athlete of all time? Thats like saying Mohammad Ali is or Mike Tyson is based on their rein in the ring.

He might be the greatest cyclist of all time. I would concur with that but if he dies and somones else does what he does does that make him the second greatest or a tie for first?

He is good/great at what he does and there is no debate about that.

**nsa** · 07-12-2005, 11:25 PM

I admire him more for beating cancer than anything he has done on a bike. BTW, he has an advantage over the field of competitors on the tour because he gets daily test injections and the other riders basicly have their test levels demolished from the stress of the mountain stages of the tour. It's not just coincidence that Lance always takes over the tour during the mountain stages...

**max2extreme** · 07-13-2005, 03:05 AM

Originally Posted by kman

Lance is not only one of the greatest athletes in the world, he is more of an amazing person. To come back and win 6 times after beating cancer is amazing..

i disagree. leaving his wife and kids because his skill has made him friends with the rich and famous and thus got him a famous gf is pretty crappy in my book. he may be a good cyclist, but not an amazing person.

**chest6** · 07-13-2005, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by max2extreme

i disagree. leaving his wife and kids because his skill has made him friends with the rich and famous and thus got him a famous gf is pretty crappy in my book. he may be a good cyclist, but not an amazing person.

agreed

**Heracles74** · 07-13-2005, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by max2extreme

i disagree. leaving his wife and kids because his skill has made him friends with the rich and famous and thus got him a famous gf is pretty crappy in my book. he may be a good cyclist, but not an amazing person.

I agree... to an extent. Amazing athelete? Definitley. Amazing person? NO. I think he is an arrogant dirt bag.

**kman** · 07-13-2005, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by nsa

I admire him more for beating cancer than anything he has done on a bike. BTW, he has an advantage over the field of competitors on the tour because he gets daily test injections and the other riders basicly have their test levels demolished from the stress of the mountain stages of the tour. It's not just coincidence that Lance always takes over the tour during the mountain stages...

Cmon bro, Lance gets tested after almost every stage. His levels are never higher than normal, and I am sure other cyclist are using drugs in a sport known for its steriod abuse. It is his hard work that gets him over the mountains not his daily test injection, which I will have to double check, cause this is the first time hearing about this..

**kman** · 07-13-2005, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by Heracles74

I agree... to an extent. Amazing athelete? Definitley. Amazing person? NO. I think he is an arrogant dirt bag.

Wow and how old are you, I am sure you are such an amazing person. IMO when you donate millions and millions of dollars to save people from dying, and deticate your life to helping others with cancer you are not a dirt bag. That was a stupid statement, stop watching T.V. so much and get out and do something with your life... Read a book,do some charity, anything, cause your mind is wacked..

**Heracles74** · 07-13-2005, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by kman

Wow and how old are you, I am sure you are such an amazing person. IMO when you donate millions and millions of dollars to save people from dying, and deticate your life to helping others with cancer you are not a dirt bag. That was a stupid statement, stop watching T.V. so much and get out and do something with your life... Read a book,do some charity, anything, cause your mind is wacked..

My age is irrelevant. I am 31. And that my friend is my opinion and I am entitled to it. As you are yours. And I don't think you know enough about me to suggest reading charity, etc... so...

Have a nice day!

**kman** · 07-13-2005, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by Heracles74

My age is irrelevant. I am 31. And that my friend is my opinion and I am entitled to it. As you are yours. And I don't think you know enough about me to suggest reading charity, etc... so...

Have a nice day!

I will have a great day, thank you..

**chest6** · 07-13-2005, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by kman

I will have a great day, thank you..

**radar1234** · 07-13-2005, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by kman

Cmon bro, Lance gets tested after almost every stage. His levels are never higher than normal, and I am sure other cyclist are using drugs in a sport known for its steriod abuse. It is his hard work that gets him over the mountains not his daily test injection, which I will have to double check, cause this is the first time hearing about this..

i agree with u on that.if his test levels were higher than the rest of the field there would be protests on the race course! he just trains harder than ever1 else. i dont know where people get they're info from

**31uniform** · 07-13-2005, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by max2extreme

i disagree. leaving his wife and kids because his skill has made him friends with the rich and famous and thus got him a famous gf is pretty crappy in my book. he may be a good cyclist, but not an amazing person.

I agree.

**Swifto** · 07-13-2005, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by kman

Cmon bro, Lance gets tested after almost every stage. His levels are never higher than normal, and I am sure other cyclist are using drugs in a sport known for its steriod abuse. It is his hard work that gets him over the mountains not his daily test injection, which I will have to double check, cause this is the first time hearing about this..

I agree.

Never heard this before.

I do though remember reading something on how Lance's body can absorb more oxygen than most of the athletes.

**Dally** · 07-13-2005, 01:35 PM

whats this about him takin daily test shots? hmmmm why?

sorry all I know is he has a nice ol gto and has won the Tour de france quite a few times.

**nsa** · 07-13-2005, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by kman

Cmon bro, Lance gets tested after almost every stage. His levels are never higher than normal, and I am sure other cyclist are using drugs in a sport known for its steriod abuse. It is his hard work that gets him over the mountains not his daily test injection, which I will have to double check, cause this is the first time hearing about this..

Learn about the rules bud. He is allowed to get test injections because he only has one testicle. His levels are normal during the moutain stages while all the other riders test levels are ridiculously low from the repeated stress of riding the stages as hard as they do...

**Swifto** · 07-13-2005, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by nsa

Learn about the rules bud. He is allowed to get test injections because he only has one testicle. His levels are normal during the moutain stages while all the other riders test levels are ridiculously low from the repeated stress of riding the stages as hard as they do...

Does that explain about his body being able to absorb more oxygen then. I definitly heard it somewhere...

**nsa** · 07-13-2005, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by Swifto

I do though remember reading something on how Lance's body can absorb more oxygen than most of the athletes.

That has nothing to do with the test injections. He has been tested in athletic performance labs to have a ridiculously high VO2max...

**symatech** · 07-13-2005, 02:36 PM

IMO: there is no doubt that what he has accomplished is extraordinary and a lesson for us all in perseverance. Best athlete ever? I don't think so, I think any top triathlon athlete is a better overall athlete than lance is. He's a badass on the bike for sure. and he fought hard to beat cancer which is more than admirable.

I know he and his wife split but I do not know any of the details and thus will not judge the mans character.

**nsa** · 07-13-2005, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by symatech

IMO: there is no doubt that what he has accomplished is extraordinary and a lesson for us all in perseverance. Best athlete ever? I don't think so, I think any top triathlon athlete is a better overall athlete than lance is. He's a badass on the bike for sure. and he fought hard to beat cancer which is more than admirable.

I know he and his wife split but I do not know any of the details and thus will not judge the mans character.

I agree...

**nsa** · 07-13-2005, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by Swifto

Does that explain about his body being able to absorb more oxygen then. I definitly heard it somewhere...

Before you ask what VO2max is....

It is a measure of your capacity to generate the energy required for endurance activities and is one of the most important factors determining your ability to exercise for longer than four to five minutes. Improving your VO2 max by 10 percent without changing any other performance factors can take more than a minute off your 5k time, and is an essential factor in races from 800 meters to the marathon. Your sedentary VO2 max values are genetically determined. However, all individuals can make drastic improvements in VO2 max with the right training stimulus.

**Swifto** · 07-13-2005, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by nsa

Before you ask what VO2max is....

It is a measure of your capacity to generate the energy required for endurance activities and is one of the most important factors determining your ability to exercise for longer than four to five minutes. Improving your VO2 max by 10 percent without changing any other performance factors can take more than a minute off your 5k time, and is an essential factor in races from 800 meters to the marathon. Your sedentary VO2 max values are genetically determined. However, all individuals can make drastic improvements in VO2 max with the right training stimulus.

I'm afraid I know what VO2Max is, did physical Education at College.

Did need touching up though....it was about 4 years ago I learnt all that.

**radar1234** · 07-13-2005, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by nsa

Learn about the rules bud. He is allowed to get test injections because he only has one testicle. His levels are normal during the moutain stages while all the other riders test levels are ridiculously low from the repeated stress of riding the stages as hard as they do...

if that were the case other teams would protest like crazy. his shots by no means give him an advantage or enhance his performance. if that were the case he would not be allowed to participate in the tour. its his rigorous training and team effort that allow him to be so good. the guy is a machine!

**nsa** · 07-13-2005, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by radar1234

if that were the case other teams would protest like crazy. his shots by no means give him an advantage or enhance his performance. if that were the case he would not be allowed to participate in the tour. its his rigorous training and team effort that allow him to be so good. the guy is a machine!

I agree that his training and his team are superior to all others. But you can not ignore the fact that he gets daily test injections. It is fact, and he is allowed to participate in the tour because he is not breaking the rules, he is allowed the injections because he only has one testicle. Why do you think he has been accused so many times of using steroids ? Because he is. And the other teams don't think its fair. But they don't realize that its in the rules that you can do what he does if you have less than two functioning testicles...

**radar1234** · 07-13-2005, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by nsa

I agree that his training and his team are superior to all others. But you can not ignore the fact that he gets daily test injections. It is fact, and he is allowed to participate in the tour because he is not breaking the rules, he is allowed the injections because he only has one testicle. Why do you think he has been accused so many times of using steroids? Because he is. And the other teams don't think its fair. But they don't realize that its in the rules that you can do what he does if you have less than two functioning testicles...

i hear ya, but the point i am trying to make is that lance does not have an advantage over the other riders due to his injections. because if he did his shots would be considered "performance enhancing" therefore being against the rules.

i am also wondering if u have an article supporting your case.

**nsa** · 07-13-2005, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by radar1234

i hear ya, but the point i am trying to make is that lance does not have an advantage over the other riders due to his injections. because if he did his shots would be considered "performance enhancing" therefore being against the rules.

i am also wondering if u have an article supporting your case.

His injections don't put him above the normal limit, of what is acceptable by the body governing the tour, by any means. But normal test levels are higher than what the other riders who don't get the injections have during the mountain stages. I have talked many times to a professor of mine who is a sports doctor and knows about these things. He knows a great deal about all the steroid , Balco and PE scandals. BTW, he has always maintained that Lance is not breaking any rules and not breaking any laws. And i am by now means saying that he should get in trouble for this, just that its hard for me to think of him as the best athlete ever. I still look up to the guy, but for his victory over cancer, not for victories on his bike...

**radar1234** · 07-13-2005, 04:05 PM

he is the man though.

**nsa** · 07-13-2005, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by radar1234

he is the man though.

Of course he is, dude beat cancer...

**kman** · 07-13-2005, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by nsa

Learn about the rules bud. He is allowed to get test injections because he only has one testicle. His levels are normal during the moutain stages while all the other riders test levels are ridiculously low from the repeated stress of riding the stages as hard as they do...

Love to see an article or how you found out he takes test injections during the tour, even if he did, all those riders are taking epo, test,and who knows what and they find ways around it.So it is basically even ground for all of them.. Also don't say thats why he gets through the mountains easily, while others struggle. Its called motivation BUD..

**max2extreme** · 07-13-2005, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by kman

Wow and how old are you, I am sure you are such an amazing person. IMO when you donate millions and millions of dollars to save people from dying, and deticate your life to helping others with cancer you are not a dirt bag. That was a stupid statement, stop watching T.V. so much and get out and do something with your life... Read a book,do some charity, anything, cause your mind is wacked..

its all relative. if people here had millions that they could donate, im sure most would. but for most of us, we do what we can, and it counts just as much as those who are able to donate more.

**max2extreme** · 07-13-2005, 08:27 PM

also, not turning this into religious at all, since its not the right forum, but did he himself really beat cancer? Im happy that hes gotten thru it, but he himself had nothing to do with it. medicine and (imo, without taking it religious) god did it. whether or not you are religious, than you can say it was the medicine, but really, what did he himself do? he was cured, and then started riding again. props for his cycling skills. props for him getting back on the horse after cancer. nothing for his beating cancer except glad he made it thru. and crappy for what i already posted.

**dprayvd** · 07-13-2005, 08:31 PM

Concur.

Originally Posted by max2extreme

i disagree. leaving his wife and kids because his skill has made him friends with the rich and famous and thus got him a famous gf is pretty crappy in my book. he may be a good cyclist, but not an amazing person.

**kman** · 07-13-2005, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by max2extreme

also, not turning this into religious at all, since its not the right forum, but did he himself really beat cancer? Im happy that hes gotten thru it, but he himself had nothing to do with it. medicine and (imo, without taking it religious) god did it. whether or not you are religious, than you can say it was the medicine, but really, what did he himself do? he was cured, and then started riding again. props for his cycling skills. props for him getting back on the horse after cancer. nothing for his beating cancer except glad he made it thru. and crappy for what i already posted.

Read his book and you will change your mind.. You have to learn to beat it, it is a battle and a fight, making the right decisons and making an effort to plan an attack the disease. You can't just fight cancer saying it does not matter what I do, cause god will decide in the end.. Also the fact that he himself has made it, and is contributing to a cause makes him a great person, not an arrogant jerk like hercules replied. You would be suprised how some athlethes never help out with charities, and yea an average person that helps to contribut to help fight cancer is also amazing,don't get me wrong, but he has made it a life long effort, not just signing a check and thats that. i mean look at all the yellow braclets out there, next time you look at that, think of all the lives that it is possibly saving. So when someone ridicules him, I will stick up for him for that reason only, not for what he has done of his bike..

**kman** · 07-13-2005, 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by max2extreme

i disagree. leaving his wife and kids because his skill has made him friends with the rich and famous and thus got him a famous gf is pretty crappy in my book. he may be a good cyclist, but not an amazing person.

Bro you don't know what goes on with his personal life, people change and people move on. His wife could have gone nuts and maybe he got tired of her. As far as his famous gf, he is surrounded by famous people all day, I mean you don't pick on an average joe who leaves his wife for whatever reason. More props to him on getting a hot famous chick, I sense a little jealousy floating around with some off you bro's..

**radar1234** · 07-13-2005, 09:36 PM

well put kman

**max2extreme** · 07-13-2005, 11:39 PM

actually yes i do "pick on the average joe" when he leaves his wife, and it in no way stems from jealousy, at least from me. im happily married and wouldnt change it for anything. i havnt always been like this. but even if your wife goes nuts, and you dont just get sick of it and leave her. besides, if you look at kristin, you can tell shes not nuts. that wasnt even the case. money and fame can cloud what really is important. and now hes found a rich gf, and now hes retiring. i wonder how his marriage would be if he retired while they were still together. hmm.

like i said, hes a great cyclist. hes in great shape. glad he got thru cancer. and i see your side more about the cancer part, you do have to put effort and put your body thru a lot, but hes just too cocky about it for my taste. and his family values arent all there in my opinion. if he was having these family troubles, he should have retired before and concentrated on that.