Marijuana : How it affects building muscle

**Drummerboy** · 07-28-2005, 04:08 PM

Here is an abstract I found on PubMed :

Plasma LH are significantly depressed and cortisol significantly elevated after smoking marijuana. Nonsignificant depressions of prolactin, FSH, testosterone and free testosterone and elevation of GH also occurred.

(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract)

The symptoms i experience after smoking closely resemble side effects of a cortisol spike (munchies, lethargy, slight anxiety). I noticed the relation when i was reading up on cortisol. It lead me to search about marijuana and hormone levels. Sure enough, cortisol, the muscle eating hormone, is elevated, and LH drops. Lowered LH results in lower sperm count. These are temporary effects, generally 24 hours. That means that daily use is catabolic and raises fat storage. Endurance drops. I beleive it will hinder gains. Any educated input is welcome to this thread, thread parrots and moralist please keep it to yourself. Thnx,

~DB~

**SwoleCat** · 07-28-2005, 04:10 PM

This can be a constructive discussion on why NOT to use this substance, as A.R. has a no recreational drug usage discussion policy.

Please remember that.

~SC~

**WildCh1ld** · 07-28-2005, 04:11 PM

I retired from pot a long long time ago and don't like it at all now so this wouldn't affect me....

**lfrisbee** · 07-28-2005, 04:15 PM

Agreed on the non-promotion... good research bro and thanks for sharing... just another reason not to drink or do drugs while trying to get big/strong.

**Drummerboy** · 07-28-2005, 04:16 PM

Swole: ya i noticed that when i read all the other threads... however, if a certain substance, this one being recreational also, happens to directly affect all the hormones we take great pains to control, do we ignore it? I hope not.
And to answer your concern, yes it turns out in this case that I would recommend NOT smoking, as far as body building is concerned, even though i dont judge anyone for their decisions to use recreational drugs. I see AAS as recreational drugs, but thats just IMHO, and some would dissagree. I am respectfully hoping for a constructive discussion, for sure.

~DB~

**armwrestler22** · 07-28-2005, 04:18 PM

fukk, i might have to quit after reading this shit.

**Drummerboy** · 07-28-2005, 04:29 PM

Man, i just read that pot use also stimulates the conversion of testosterone to estrogen... this may not be a problem with proper anti-e's, but it does not help!!!

**SwoleCat** · 07-28-2005, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by armwrestler22

fukk, i love weed and i might have to quit after reading this shit.

This is why we have that policy in place.

~SC~

**Drummerboy** · 07-28-2005, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by SwoleCat

This is why we have that policy in place.

~SC~

Wondering what you mean.... cause he likes it and told us? That there is a conflict between his AAS use and pot smoking? That he may stop? That could be good... could you clear that up for me?

~DB ~

**kloter1** · 07-28-2005, 04:51 PM

he just means dont advertize or glorify rec drugs.

**Drummerboy** · 07-28-2005, 04:52 PM

Thats no prob. Whoever posts, keep that in mind...

**SwoleCat** · 07-28-2005, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by Drummerboy

Wondering what you mean.... cause he likes it and told us? That there is a conflict between his AAS use and pot smoking? That he may stop? Thought that may be a good thing... could you clear that up for me?

~DB ~

If you feel the need to discuss weed, perhaps you should speak with the system administrator.

Yes, armwrestler mentioned how much he loves it, and you also agreed with him.

I thought my initial post would prevent that type of "dude, I love smokin' dude, I get so f*cked up duuuuuuuuuuuuuuude.........I'm high as h*ll duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude!!!!!!!"

I guess not.

Glad I could "clear that up".

N E more halfway b.s. posts about this topic, and it's history.

~SC~

**armwrestler22** · 07-28-2005, 05:08 PM

its been edited, all good.

**SwoleCat** · 07-28-2005, 05:09 PM

All good thanks!

I think we can have a good discussion about how THC works against bettering ones chances of obtaining their fitness dreams.

~SC~

**Drummerboy** · 07-28-2005, 05:12 PM

Good stuff! Now we got this thread back on track... Any useful input, respecting AR's policy, would be appreciated...

~DB~

**lucabratzi** · 07-28-2005, 05:36 PM

i've heard that it does turn test into estrogen. and im guessin this is why i have a little gyno from puberty/training/smoking

**Kärnfysikern** · 07-28-2005, 05:39 PM

Im gonna say 2 things things.
Notice the date on the study
and
read some about how the medical community intentionaly did studies in a way to make it seem worse then it is during a time period. Thats all I gonna say about it since I have very strong oppinions about this and it isnt proper to discuss it.

Not saying the studie is wrong though since I havent read it, just saying there is a possibility its tweaked to fit a agenda...

Its kind of like the studie where they gave monkeys 100 times the dosage a human would use(mg/per kg bodyweight) of another popular rec drug to "prove" how dangerous it is.

**SwoleCat** · 07-28-2005, 05:43 PM

Put it this way:

I am sure literally EVERYONE here has done this at one time or another. At one time in my life, long ago in my music making days, we used to use this as a way to "open up the paths of creativity" and get the "freestyle" going. Others use it for medicinal purposes, or in other social settings for whatever reasons. (Relaxation, video games, etc.)

I feel though however, once you truly "grow up" and have a grasp on what it is you really want to do in life, you can no longer afford the "fog" that this substance leaves you in. It's a hallucinogen/depressant, so you are basically fooling yourself into thinking you are being creative, doing something you couldn't otherwise do if you were sober, etc. It's a catch 22, and yes it may be fun at times, but in the long/big scheme of things, the negatives HIGHLY outweigh the positives.

Now, put this substance into the realm of fitness, and there is NO question that it does FAR more damage than good. From everything from motivation, to estrogen, to the munchies, to oxygen capacity, to brain cells, etc. So, I am not trying to be the "father figure" here or preach to you all, but seriously consider what it is you wish to accomplish in life and if you can truly get there while partaking with this substance.

If you can, more power to you, but often times it's very mis-leading and you are a better more outgoing person w/out it. You can attain more w/out it, that's for sure, and that's 100% real.

~SC~

**ginkobulloba** · 07-28-2005, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by SwoleCat

Put it this way:

I am sure literally EVERYONE here has done this at one time or another. At one time in my life, long ago in my music making days, we used to use this as a way to "open up the paths of creativity" and get the "freestyle" going. Others use it for medicinal purposes, or in other social settings for whatever reasons. (Relaxation, video games, etc.)

I feel though however, once you truly "grow up" and have a grasp on what it is you really want to do in life, you can no longer afford the "fog" that this substance leaves you in. It's a hallucinogen/depressant, so you are basically fooling yourself into thinking you are being creative, doing something you couldn't otherwise do if you were sober, etc. It's a catch 22, and yes it may be fun at times, but in the long/big scheme of things, the negatives HIGHLY outweigh the positives.

Now, put this substance into the realm of fitness, and there is NO question that it does FAR more damage than good. From everything from motivation, to estrogen, to the munchies, to oxygen capacity, to brain cells, etc. So, I am not trying to be the "father figure" here or preach to you all, but seriously consider what it is you wish to accomplish in life and if you can truly get there while partaking with this substance.

If you can, more power to you, but often times it's very mis-leading and you are a better more outgoing person w/out it. You can attain more w/out it, that's for sure, and that's 100% real.

~SC~

Normally I wouldn't even comment on this subject, but Swole Cat, that was a very well thought out statement and makes complete sense, so thanks for posting that.

**SwoleCat** · 07-28-2005, 06:05 PM

Thanks brutha.

~SC~

**Kärnfysikern** · 07-28-2005, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by SwoleCat

Put it this way:

I am sure literally EVERYONE here has done this at one time or another. At one time in my life, long ago in my music making days, we used to use this as a way to "open up the paths of creativity" and get the "freestyle" going. Others use it for medicinal purposes, or in other social settings for whatever reasons. (Relaxation, video games, etc.)

I feel though however, once you truly "grow up" and have a grasp on what it is you really want to do in life, you can no longer afford the "fog" that this substance leaves you in. It's a hallucinogen/depressant, so you are basically fooling yourself into thinking you are being creative, doing something you couldn't otherwise do if you were sober, etc. It's a catch 22, and yes it may be fun at times, but in the long/big scheme of things, the negatives HIGHLY outweigh the positives.

Now, put this substance into the realm of fitness, and there is NO question that it does FAR more damage than good. From everything from motivation, to estrogen, to the munchies, to oxygen capacity, to brain cells, etc. So, I am not trying to be the "father figure" here or preach to you all, but seriously consider what it is you wish to accomplish in life and if you can truly get there while partaking with this substance.

If you can, more power to you, but often times it's very mis-leading and you are a better more outgoing person w/out it. You can attain more w/out it, that's for sure, and that's 100% real.

~SC~

this I agree with. For someone that want to achivie anything intelectualy or physicaly using this stuff to often will fail or do alot worse then they could.
Just like we dont drink often we should stay away from this aswell.

**Kärnfysikern** · 07-28-2005, 06:08 PM

*thread theft warning*

swole you should uppload a mp3 of the music you used to do

what kind of music was it?

**SwoleCat** · 07-28-2005, 06:10 PM

Rap bro, strictly rap.

I don't have any of the old sh*t at all, but I may be getting into new endeavors soon w/some other people.

~SC~

**Kärnfysikern** · 07-28-2005, 06:29 PM

thats cool

here is another studie to get this thread back

Effects of chronic marijuana use on testosterone , luteinizing hormone, follicle stimulating hormone, prolactin and cortisol in men and women.

Block RI, Farinpour R, Schlechte JA.

Department of Anesthesia, College of Medicine, University of Iowa, Iowa City 52242.

To investigate possible effects of chronic marijuana use on reproductive and stress hormones, we assayed testosterone, luteinizing hormone, follicle stimulating hormone, prolactin, and cortisol in 93 men and 56 women with a mean (+/- S.E.) age of 23.5 +/- 0.4 years. Hormone values were compared among groups of subjects stratified according to frequency of marijuana use (frequent, moderate and infrequent; N = 27, 18, and 30, respectively) and non-using controls (N = 74). Chronic marijuana use showed no significant effect on hormone concentrations in either men or women.

PMID: 1935564 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

just goes to show this doesnt seem to be a settled issue.

**Kärnfysikern** · 07-28-2005, 06:31 PM

and another. If it seems like Im sheading this in a positive light and its against board rules then feel free to delete.

Physical assessment of 30 chronic cannabis users and 30 matched controls.

Cruickshank EK.

Ganja is used extensively in the working-class population of Jamaica, particularly in certain agricultural and fishing communities. Ganja, smoking is illegal but can be accepted as part of the culture in these areas. Sixty male subjects were chosen for assessment, 30 chronic smokers and 30 controls from comparable social, economic, and cultural backgrounds, and were matched for height and age. A chronic smoker had somked a minimum of three spliffs per day for a minimum of 10 years. The subjects were admitted to the hospital for 1 week for psychologic and physical assessment. The physical assessment included a detailed medical history and examination, heart and lung radiography, electrocardiograms, respiratory, liver, and renal function tests, hematology, treponemal serology, and chromosomal studies. No significant physical abnormalities were found, except in two smokers, and there was no reason to suspect that these disabilities were related to ganja. No significant differences between the two groups were demonstrated in the wide range of tests administered.

PMID: 1071376 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

**305GUY** · 07-28-2005, 07:47 PM

Great posts johan... keep them coming.. specifically those de****g with bodybuilding and gyno would be great..

**Drummerboy** · 07-28-2005, 07:48 PM

All good info... Johan makes a good point about propaganda, and Swole applies some wisdom. I think the conclusion is obvious : if your into your body and want a clear mind, pot has got to go. Even though it has not been proven to cause long term damage, as i believe, the short term effects (24h) are definitely undesirable for those interested in maintaining a nice body and clear mind. Thnx for the posts,

~DB~

**Drummerboy** · 07-28-2005, 07:53 PM

Oh ya, forgot to add my personal case study!! A couple years ago i went through a rough time. I decided to clear my head of all substance to help cope. After cleaning up for a few months, i did a test/deca /dbol cycle. Now that i think about it, without smoking, i was much more motivated to train. I thought more clearly about my training, ya know, figuring out what worked best for me in the gym. Getting the mind-muscle connection going. I had great results, went up 30 pds (a little water LOL) and looked great. Went to Mexica and had a blast.... on current cycle, up to yesterday (tren /test/var) and puffing here and there, less motivated and harder to get gains.... just thought i would throw that in....

~DB~

**bor** · 07-29-2005, 03:35 AM

Well, we really can't argue that weed is good for you in any way...

Good post from Swole about growing up, I totally agree!

I always put pot smokers in 2 categories : 1. smoking all day long, they don't even get high anymore it just calms them down, and 2. smoking a doobie at night - which is cool by me

I was a member of both categories for a while, but today I can't even remember when I smoked for the lat time...

**Kärnfysikern** · 07-29-2005, 05:26 AM

Originally Posted by bor

Well, we really can't argue that weed is good for you in any way...

Good post from Swole about growing up, I totally agree!

I always put pot smokers in 2 categories : 1. smoking all day long, they don't even get high anymore it just calms them down, and 2. smoking a doobie at night - which is cool by me

I was a member of both categories for a while, but today I can't even remember when I smoked for the lat time...

you forgot category 3 that prefers to party with it once every 2 months or so

**Drummerboy** · 07-29-2005, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by bor

Well, we really can't argue that weed is good for you in any way...

Good post from Swole about growing up, I totally agree!

I always put pot smokers in 2 categories : 1. smoking all day long, they don't even get high anymore it just calms them down, and 2. smoking a doobie at night - which is cool by me

I was a member of both categories for a while, but today I can't even remember when I smoked for the lat time...

for sure... i have belonged to every category, and can no longer justify being a daily smoker especially while on cycle, however, like Johans category 3, once in a while, like drinking wont hurt too much, but ive definitely chosen to stop for now, and i am feelin' way more motivated... why waste tren /test/var anyway??? Thnx for the feedback, keep it comin'

**chest6** · 07-30-2005, 01:44 AM

damn these long threads take awhile to read

**MilitiaGuy** · 07-30-2005, 02:42 AM

without sutdies you should know marijuana is a damaging drug to the brain cells just look at bush a former marijuana user , and see the stupid decisions he take. When you feel you want to smoke some marijuana just listen to some of Bush's speeches and you will quit!!

**MilitiaGuy** · 07-30-2005, 02:44 AM

**RJstrong** · 07-30-2005, 09:21 AM

hated... it must be hell to always have George Bush on the brain 24/7... maybe you should open up your miiiiiiiind maaaaaan... and poke some smot... then maybe you can come up with a better analogy.... besides you got the pres confused with Clinton (dope smoker) Bush was a Coke head... come on man every body knows that!

**O.fO.shO** · 07-30-2005, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by MilitiaGuy

**Drummerboy** · 07-30-2005, 10:47 AM

that is friggin funny ^^^^^^

**chest6** · 07-30-2005, 03:38 PM

hahaha thats good shit....weed is useless it does nothing for me...never touch it again..anything that hurts me to looking like swole one day

**Jimmya73** · 07-30-2005, 04:17 PM

hmmm...i wonder if it is related to the minor gyno i have pretty much always had, i started smoking about the same time as i started puberty, then stopped after 9th grade.i guess i will have to research and try to find an unbiased study, anybody feel free to post up or pm any you know of please! i cant stand pot anymore, in fact i truely dont even like drinking(weird from a college freshman). the negative connotations associated with alcohol and pot as far as the day after far outweigh the benefits of a single night of fun now. i cant stand the fact that i dont feel well and cant train well the next day.