Need help picking out handgun..

[abstrack]

..the first H-K i fired was a USP, but if I remember correctly, it carried a model 21 designation...The main difference was a threaded barrel.....

..Edit..my bad..I just checked.....it was a mark 23....

OK i think they have a new set of numbers out that are designated for the 40.cal and 45.cal They have the Mark23(.45.cal) with the threaded end barrel and the USP Tactical 40 and 45 with the threaded barrel now.

[almostgone]

....That explains it...
.A machine shop I used to work at did contract work for the military....We made oversized components out of nylon for everything from M-16 to FN/FAL to H-K to Beretta.....They used the oversized pieces as training aids during firearm familiarization/training......That's how I managed to get my first opportunity to play with the Mk 23......

[almostgone]

..abstrack,
What's your favorite store-bought round in .45?.....or do you roll your own?

...I've seen some really good results out of the Speer Gold-dots that a friend of mine loaded....

[Mesomorphyl]

Now a bullet proof vest will stop the 9mm and not do much damage but possibly if close enough might penetrate and do slight damange. A 40.cal will knock the wind out of you with a vest on and leave a nice bruise on your body and break through if in close enough range. The 45. cal will definitely knock the assialant down and most likely keep him down unconsciously if not penetrate the vest and wound him/her very seriously.

Actually the bigger bullet would hit more of the surface area of kevlar... Which translates into a harder time penetrating the vest, let alone the slow velocity of the .45 (knock down yes, penetrate vest no)

[Mesomorphyl]

What's your favorite store-bought round in .45?.....or do you roll your own?

...I've seen some really good results out of the Speer Gold-dots that a friend of mine loaded....

GoldDots are nice, So are Winchester SXT... But I carry Golden Sabers as they are more accurate, with my Para with the LDA trigger, than the previous two rounds. For practice always reload(unless you're rich)

[Impossible]

i trust a HK 45 to protect my family.

[lcpl kill]

for the money glock hands down g23. it will shoot every time and you will hit what your aiming at. h@k and sig are good but your paying for the name not so much with sig deff with hk. and for the record neither a nine or fourty ball will penetrate a standard vest. ive done it it doesnt work.beretta is a great gun but alot heavier and bigger than the glock. i have a sig 226 duty weapon its nice but heavy. caliber shouldnt even be a question 40 all the way power and capacity you cant go wrong.

[chest6]

planning on killing someone?

[abstrack]

..abstrack,
What's your favorite store-bought round in .45?.....or do you roll your own?

...I've seen some really good results out of the Speer Gold-dots that a friend of mine loaded....

I like Core Bons, Hydra-Shocks, Fiocchi have all been pretty good to me. I am to deep into pressing my own out, that would require some time for me and at this point I dont really have much on my hands.

[abstrack]

for the money glock hands down g23. it will shoot every time and you will hit what your aiming at. h@k and sig are good but your paying for the name not so much with sig deff with hk. and for the record neither a nine or fourty ball will penetrate a standard vest. ive done it it doesnt work.beretta is a great gun but alot heavier and bigger than the glock. i have a sig 226 duty weapon its nice but heavy. caliber shouldnt even be a question 40 all the way power and capacity you cant go wrong.

Here is an article from the NY Times

"The tests by the National Institute of Justice, an arm of the Justice Department, used 9-millimeter, .357 Magnum and other ammunition on 103 Zylon vests from law enforcement agencies around the country. In 60 cases, or 58 percent, at least one bullet from a six-shot series penetrated the vest. Even in those cases where the bullet did not pierce the armor, 91 percent of the vests sustained damage considered excessive enough to cause blunt-trauma injuries to the officers wearing them, the researchers said."


even if it was made with Kevlar which most agencies are using now, there is still a chance of penetration and knock down. A Kevlar vest with a trauma plate is still only 95% fail safe with a 10% chance of penetration against a .38 caliber

[abstrack]

Actually the bigger bullet would hit more of the surface area of kevlar... Which translates into a harder time penetrating the vest, let alone the slow velocity of the .45 (knock down yes, penetrate vest no)

Depending on the range of proximity I would say that it would penetrate no matter the cal..

[Anna Bollick]

Girlfriend, I'll cut right to the chase. If you want a semiauto pistol, go for a .45 because while it is cheap to shoot, it is also a highly effective antipersonnel round. The Colt ACP type pistol is a design that is fundamentally unchanged since 1907 and for good reason... it is simple and reliable and sometimes you just don't change something that works great. There have been some changes... particularly safety improvements. Today's 45ACPs are much tighter and more accurate than the old GI boomer of WW2 fame. The Colt Defender is a good carry piece, but small capacity. Then again, how many rounds of 45 ball do you need? One, if you can shoot under pressure. A full size 45 might be better for you if high capacity is important to you. Or you can have your cake and eat it too, with the cute little Para Orinance P-10, which is smaller than an Officer's model (the colt defender is just an officer's model modified for concealed carry) but holds 11 rounds if you carry a full mag and one up the chamber. It is TINY to pack such a punch, Girl! Fits nicely in my purse. You can get blued or for a few more simoleons you can get stainless slide over aluminum alloy frame

If you prefer a double action, the SIG is an excellent choice. For a full size 45 you can also go with the P-14 which gives you the capability of carrying 15 rounds locked and loaded. Once you get used to the colt style 45 you will love it. If you are already used to baretta type guns, you must remember that there is NO de-cocker. The thumb safety is OFF when it is DOWN. When you rack the slide to chamber a round, you are also COCKING the weapon. When you chamber a round and you are not about to shoot, IMMEDIATELY apply the thumb safety by pushing it up into the notch in the slide. You have three safeties on most newer 45s... the thumb safety, the grip safety which will not allow the weapon to fire unless you have pressure on the back of the grip, and the trigger safety, which will not let the weapon fire when merely dropped unless the trigger is squeezed. With all three, there is a high level of safety. Unlike a DA, the Single Action pistol has the same trigger pull weight and travel on the first and every shot. A double action has a long, weighty, and sometimes very creepy trigger pull for the first shot, since the trigger pull must cock the weapon, and then the trigger pull is much different on subsequent shots.

For coat pocket carry, a snubby revolver is worth looking at. The reason is you can fire and keep firing right through the coat. A semi won't function well in a coat pocket because the slide hangs up when cycling, and often the ejected round does not clear the ejection port. A 44 snubby is a good coat pocket gun. Go with one made for carry or modified for pocket carry. You don't want the hammer hanging up in there. The 44 special round is a good manstopper. I myself have a Ruger Super Redhawk 44 magnum with 7-1/2 inch barrel, but I also have a big purse and big traps, and I don't carry all the time, either.

Oh, if you can find one of the brilliant little Detonics compact 45s, which are no longer made, that has been worked over by a knowledgeable gunsmith, you need to buy it. Even though the pistol only holds 6 rounds, it is a sweet little 45.

One nice thing about the 45 is the huge number of aftermarket parts, add-ons, mods, accessories, etc for this type of gun. There alre also many smiths who specialize in customizing the 45, and many custom or semi-custom guns offered by various manufacturers.

Armed to the teeth and fighting mad but not losing my feminine touch,
Anna Bollick
Juiced Shemale Rescue Hooker

[spound]

I had both a Glock and a S&W. My Glock was a compact 9mm and the S&W was a 40.cal sigma which is just like the glock.

Here is my take on the both. The Glock performed much better then the S&W and never jammed up. Both of them were exactly the same as far as breaking the gun downa nd cleaning. basically the Sigma is S&W's version of a Glock. The 9mm was nice but it lacked the stopping power of a 40.cal

If I was going to buy another hand gun I would go with a 45.cal H&K They are by far the best hand guns out there. The shoot closer groups and have far less problems the then S&W. Glock would be my second choice.
Iw ouldnt go with anything smaller then a 40.cal

If you hit someone with a 45.cal, they are going to be stopped dead in their tracks. Same thing with a 40.cal. With a 9mm, you might do more damage due to the samller round but the victim might still be able to move if it isnt a direct kill shot. With a 45.cal you are going to knock you assailant down no matter where you hit them.

Thank you, this is the kinda thing I was looking for, a comparison bt the two form soemone who has experience with both (even thoguh one waas a S&W) THank you

[spound]

If this weapon is for the self-defense of you and/or your family, "settling" on something because it's cheaper...


I say save a bit more and get what you want, and what you can trust JMHO.


http://www.hecklerkoch-usa.com/

I think i would have plenty of trust in a glock or beretta..its not like either of them are bad guns

[spound]

im definately leanign toward the glock .40 cal now, and maybe even the .45 LOL

I knwo the .45 is more powerful, but i hear the recoil on the .40 cal is worse than on the .45...is this true?

[Anna Bollick]

I have to admit I have never fired a .40 cal but a compact .45 can be a handful for some shooters. A full size .45 is quite nice though. Personally, I enjoy a bit of felt recoil. It is a very sexy feeling, to me. It is a trade-off... more weight equals less felt recoil. More weight also equals, well, more weight, making carry less pleasant. For most shooters who will carry regularly, weight is probably the greater issue. The Colt Defender with alloy frame and 6 round mag is nice and light. The more or less full size grip gives excellent control. The smaller P-10 weighs about the same, due to the weight of and additional 4 rounds of ammo, but the smaller grip takes a bit of shooting to get used to. I end up curling my little pinky finger underneath the magazine because it simply doesn't fit on the grip. You can get extended magazines that give you a full grip, though.

Recoil, as long as it is not brutal like the 454/50AE type calibers, should not be an overriding issue. You can grow comfortable with almost any level of felt recoil with a bit of practice. If it doesn't actually injure your hand, you are good to go. The key point to practice, after overcoming the inevitable flinch reflex, is re-acquiring the target quickly for followup shots. The nice thing about the larger calibers is that the importance of getting in those followup shots is somewhat diminished by their greater effectiveness at incapacitating an enemy.

There are a lot of trade-offs and things to consider. Some will say that like cocks, size isn't everything... it is the ONLY thing. Some pooh-pooh that way of thinking, and point out that the smaller gun, since it is easier to carry, is more likely to be on your person when bad things happen requiring its use. Those shooters might like a 380 or even the charming little Seecamp .32. I think the 9mm, 40, .357, all inhabit a no-man's land where you have neither a featherweight gun nor a powerful enough caliber. But that is just my opinion, I guess. I like the .45, or else a 44 revolver.

One more thing to consider... if you carry in hot weather, sweat will quickly pit the surfaces where the bluing has worn off or been scratched. Alloy and Stainless is the way to go. Even nickel can be trouble in a carry gun. I used to have a mark IV series 70 colt in nickel finish and I had a lot of rust issues. I was still living as a man at the time, and I carried that .45 in a homemade inside-the-waistband holster. When stainless guns became more common, I was instantly hooked. My first stainless gun was a Ruger mini-14 and I loved that little rifle. Took a few deer with it, actually. Nice, traditional, easy to carry, a sweet shooter. My next purchase after that I remember well... the very stainless Super Redhawk that I have now. It is too big for hip carry, normally, but I have carried it that way and sweated all over it, and walked through rain, and it has been in my purse and other places where nail polish remover, tequila sunrises, and other corrosive liquids have been all over it. I have seen a few spots of flash rust, but a rubbing with fine steel wool takes it right off, and the bore is still like glass.

Sixgun Annie
Juiced Shemale Rescue Hooker

[BUBBA74]

Screw all that crap bro get yourself a Smith & Wesson 500.

[USN DV]

I kinda like the kick from a 12 gauge shot gun, but I really like all the lead the M-60 throws out

[H BOMB]

i own a glock model 27 40. cal, it is the compact size. best gun i ever owned. and it shoots a tight group too and powerful. my buddy has a 9mm berreta and he likes mine better. and i got a special set of bullets for the rambo ****ers who want to break in with a vest on.

in my op i would go 40 or 45 you will be so much happier

[SHAOKAHN]

I think i would have plenty of trust in a glock or beretta..its not like either of them are bad guns

I'm catching what you're throwing partner, my only point was there should'nt be a "sacrifice" of any kind when choosing something of life/death importance.

[almostgone]

im definately leanign toward the glock .40 cal now, and maybe even the .45 LOL

I knwo the .45 is more powerful, but i hear the recoil on the .40 cal is worse than on the .45...is this true?

Spound, the perceived recoil will depend on the weight of the weapon from which it is fired...Given 2 frames of the same model with one of them in .40 and one in .45 ACP, I believe the recoil is SLIGHTLY worse with the .40...but in my experience, the difference is minimal....

..The main reasons I prefer .45 is : I'm familiar with most variants on the market and you can pick up 230 grain ball ammo for plinking CHEAP......Just steer clear of the steel case gov't. surplus ammo..The steel case ammo plays hell with the extractor......

[edmen2]

Screw all that crap bro get yourself a Smith & Wesson 500.

thats not a gun!............this is a gun!!!!!!

[Anna Bollick]

I kinda like the kick from a 12 gauge shot gun, but I really like all the lead the M-60 throws out

The M60 is difficult to maintain, though. Our military has phased it out, along with the BAR. Both have been replaced by 223 cal weapons. The SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon) and something called the 230 Golf. I could never understand the wisdom of replacing them with .223s. There are folks who want to replace the Browning M2 as well... I guess those same idiots want to replace it with yet another .223 cal weapon LOL! Over the years I have managed to get a bit of trigger time on the .50 and Girlfriend, I almost have an ORGASM when I thumb that paddle and send a string downrange! Funny how we have such a history of getting rid of great weapons just because someone decides we need something new. The 1911 is an excellent example. The .45 could have been updated to take advantage of field-appropriate advances in technology and it would have still been superior to the Baretta. We used the 1911 from WW1 all the way up into the mid 80s, and for good reason. We switched to the 9mm, for mostly political reasons and great lobbying. The idiots who get rid of anything we get that is simple and effective should be tried for treason. Even the K-bar was out of circulation for a generation, and only recently called back into use, I understand. The GI used to have a few prized posessions in the field... his zippo (okay, I admit the zippo has some limitations that make disposable butane lighters look pretty good) his .45, his E-tool, and his K-bar.

Well, enough rants from me about guns. Spound, get thee a .45 and thou wilt have thy cup overfloweth with joy. Go compact if you will carry every day but seldom or never have to use it with deadly purpose. Go full size if longer range accuracy or sensitivity to recoil are problems or if you anticipate using it more than rarely or if it will be mostly just a car gun or a house gun.

Enough talk about guns... anybody have any good recipes for wild rice or ramen noodles or summer sausage? I'm trying to figure out what to cook. Just joking, Girl! I won't hijact this important thread.

Kisses and Tickles
Anna Bollick
Juiced Shemale Rescue Hooker

[lcpl kill]

you look like a pretty big dude ive seen girls handle de .50 the recoil on a fourty isnt bad yes it is a little worse than others but unless your limp wristed you shouldnt have any problems and its not like your competition shooting. by the way no one uses zylon vests any more and yes after six shot one might go through thats just because after it takes one hit the integrity goes down to zero. there only good for one shot i shot my insert two times with a golden saber fourty at point blank range and nothing happened. yes smaller rounds will penetrate a vest because they dont mushroom out like larger rounds do especially if your talking about +p ammo.

[spound]

Yea, honestly I will not be carrying too often, just times when I knwo I will be going somewhere where I fell I MIGHT possibly need/want to have it on me. I say I woudl carry it only about 5% of the time I left the house...max. THe rest of the time It will be in my glove box, b/c where I live, i feel pretty safe, and I have a pit bull who will tear some shit up if anyone comes through that door un announced.

I will have to go to the range and try out both the .40 and .45 glock and I will make my decision form there. I am pretty sure I will go with the full size though. Just b/c this being my first handgun and all, control is an issue, and well as the weight of the gun make precision a little easier while I get used to the gun. THanks for all you input, you all have helped tremendously!

[spound]

Screw all that crap bro get yourself a Smith & Wesson 500.

Yea, that one should fit nicely on my hip LMAO! hehe

[juicehoe]

id say go with the 9mm if your going target shooting a lot. Id take the .40 for stopping power. Personally out of my 7 guns... my 1911 colt .45 (with many upgrades) is my fav

[kia]

iwe got some bad expirience with the glock. it tends to jam in cold weather.and it jams now and then.we used them in the army. Glock:
very reliable.in my mind no. I would have gone for the beretta!

[USN DV]

The M60 is difficult to maintain, though. Our military has phased it out,

We are in the process of replacing the M-60 with thethe M240B, but my command will not see it for a while.

[Jdawg50]

I have a .45 Sig Sauer. I also have a 9mm Ruger, and .40 Berretta. I like the sig, but the .40 is a great round. Stay away from the glocks. no hammer..... To much likelyhood for an accident JMHO. CYA

[veinyleehaney]

I want some kind of semi auto pistol with a silencer...what website can I go to to buy one?

[Anna Bollick]

HEY! No asking for sources!

Anna Bollick
Juiced Shemale Rescue Hooker

[abstrack]

im definately leanign toward the glock .40 cal now, and maybe even the .45 LOL

I knwo the .45 is more powerful, but i hear the recoil on the .40 cal is worse than on the .45...is this true?

From my experience the 40.cal was harder to control and the recoil was worse then the 45. Now I have shot the Glock 45. (model 30) compact and that is pretty nice gun. My S&W Sigma was full size witha 15 round mag and it was kind of jumpy IMO. Dont get me wrong, I love S&W handguns, but If I buy a S&W again it will be one of their revolvers. If I by another semi auto pistol it will be an HK or another manufacture.

[abstrack]

I just wanted to add that most models of the Glock have an addition model that is compensated. If you like the 40.cal or even the 10mm you can buy one that is compensated. Which means they port the end of the gun to control the recoil a bit more.

[veinyleehaney]

...hello? I've asked for a website where I can buy handguns, nothing illegal about that...so why no responses?

[almostgone]

...hello? I've asked for a website where I can buy handguns, nothing illegal about that...so why no responses?

..looks like you got your response...

[almostgone]

..Spound, if you find you're not comfortable with a semi-auto or decide you want something fairly small for CC, take a look at a Ruger SP-101 in stainless (it's the bottom one in the pic).....
..It has a bobbed hammer, will fit in your pocket, and .357 magnum is a pretty decent caliber....I picked up mine new for a little over $300

[Anna Bollick]

The only guns that you can legally buy online and have mailed to you without you having an FFL are black powder weapons or antiques. Go to a gun shop. The staff will generally be very helpful and will have some knowledge of every weapon in the store. They can point out alternatives that will more closely meet your particular needs or wants.

Anna Bollick
Juiced Shemale Rescue Hooker

[mike132]

ruger .40 stainless what a handgun should look and feel like. good price too.
can get 16 clip here in fl. too

[almostgone]

The only guns that you can legally buy online and have mailed to you without you having an FFL are black powder weapons or antiques. Go to a gun shop. The staff will generally be very helpful and will have some knowledge of every weapon in the store. They can point out alternatives that will more closely meet your particular needs or wants.

Anna Bollick
Juiced Shemale Rescue Hooker

Unfortunately,I think the concept of a FFL and class III permits aren't in veinyleehaney's language....