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  1. #1
    skinnyhb's Avatar
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    bouncing for an acquantance's private party

    hey guys, a friend of mine has asked me to bounce/work the door at her private party. i've done this a lot for friends, but never in a formal fashion, more kicking people out of parties when they get out of hand. there is going to be open access to alcohol in the house, so i will not be allowing minors in. there will probably be anywhere from 25 to 50 people there. my questions to guys who would know is:

    1. I myself am two months short of 21, so i know that technically i am not allowed in the house by law, however, i will be outside the whole time unless things get out of hand inside. (my partner is 21 who will be my contact inside). also, i think more than anything, the police will be appreciating the effort, but what kind of legal trouble can i potentially get in for this?

    2. it is in our college town of Isla Vista where there are lots of minors, and i know for a fact that two of the girls that live there are under 21 and i am sure that they will be allowing some of their friends who are under 21 to come in as well. it is going to be made very clear to them that if they want their minor friends in that it is their responsibility if the cops show up and that i am going to tell the police the entire truth. can i get into any legal trouble for this?

    3. i would like to have more people working with me, but i will have one other completely sober partner and i will know a majority of the guys at the party, who are some of the people i trust the most if i were in any trouble. am i asking for trouble with only two (probably three) people in this situation?

    4. i will be bringing some expected things such as clipboard for a list, mag lite for vision (and last resort protection), as well as my two sets of handcuffs if shit gets out of hand. any other things i should bring?

    5. they have offered to pay me. i will be working from about 9-2ish. but they are also my friends, but not super close friends. how much should i ask?


    in closing, im really not super worried about any of these issues, as i feel i have thought it out pretty well. i wont be drinking. as far as my background, ive been training bjj for about 3 months, muay thai for a month, so i have some (not much) training under my belt, but i have never been in a real street fight, mainly because i work as a transport agent for at risk minors so i have experience and training in verbally de-escalating situations and i feel that fighting is a completely last resort issue. however, with these considered, if i have to i will not hesitate to get physical if need be. wow, this post has gotten long. anyways, ill end here. any thoughts or things i should consider?

  2. #2
    eGGz's Avatar
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    Are they paying you enough to make it worth the potential assult charges you may face in the event you do get "physical."

  3. #3
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    if u've never been in a street fight i wouldnt do it...if u were experienced u could handle urself better if people try to jump u...without experience u are a fish out of water, fighting isnt like the movies, u can and good chance will get ur face stomped on, stabbed, ect...that shit isnt fun...i dont know the laws so i wont comment on that. but bro. if u plan on hitting someone with a mag lite, plan on gettin stabbed or hit with something..
    now if u do do it then only get physical if there already is a fight or if someone is gettin physical with u..try to de-escalate situations...
    a fair price would be depending on the person. if they have descent money i would say 150. but dont go under 100...

  4. #4
    Hard Head's Avatar
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    Unless you NEED the money, I'd pass on the opp.

  5. #5
    SwoleCat is offline AR Hall of Fame
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    No thanks...

    ~SC~

  6. #6
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    Sounds like a tough job, I would ask for at least 150

  7. #7
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    thanks for the input guys. im still up in the air, and i think it is going to be a lot more mellow than i made it sound, but if i were to take it, i would take it seriously.

  8. #8
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    I'd rather be inside..

  9. #9
    chest6's Avatar
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    Ya..when my friends have big parties theyre just like hey chest if ppl come in that we dont know throw them out.

  10. #10
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    mak a guest list so u know who is ligit

  11. #11
    Alex2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinnyhb
    ....

    1. I myself am two months short of 21, so i know that technically i am not allowed in the house by law, however, i will be outside the whole time unless things get out of hand inside. (my partner is 21 who will be my contact inside). also, i think more than anything, the police will be appreciating the effort, but what kind of legal trouble can i potentially get in for this?
    ...
    I can answer the first question but not sure about the remaining.

    I know a girl who works officially at Women strip club (checking IDs and collecting money) and she is 20 y.o. so as long as you are outside, you are safe.

  12. #12
    SVTMuscle* is offline Banned
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    Dude I dunno what your so concerned about. Thing wont get out of hand. I was a bouncer all summer at a 21+ club in the city, and never had any implications. Things are calm its more about attitude, you dont have to bring handcuffs, your not the police. there should be no instances where you have to get physical with anyone at anytime.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SVTMuscle
    Dude I dunno what your so concerned about. Thing wont get out of hand. I was a bouncer all summer at a 21+ club in the city, and never had any implications. Things are calm its more about attitude, you dont have to bring handcuffs, your not the police. there should be no instances where you have to get physical with anyone at anytime.
    u never know though, and u have to be ready for anything, u cant work and think that nothing will happen cause then ur caught off gaurd, im guessin u mean NYC..

  14. #14
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    nevermind just saw ur from mass..

  15. #15
    skinnyhb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucabratzi
    u never know though, and u have to be ready for anything, u cant work and think that nothing will happen cause then ur caught off gaurd, im guessin u mean NYC..

    exactly.

  16. #16
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    Bro i bounced for years at diff clubs in NYC including webster hall and crobar and this is a house party which should be ok. Use your words first since you can. In clubs I worked there was no talking to people since the jsic was blasting and the whole idea was to just get them out the door as quickly as possible with as little damage and least amount of attention. Just be confident you can handle yourself just fine. You'll do just fine. And dont go pulling guard like they teach you with BJJ cuz that doesnt necessarily work with more than one person LOL.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by chest6
    Ya..when my friends have big parties theyre just like hey chest if ppl come in that we dont know throw them out.
    lol, ur friends call u chest?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger909
    lol, ur friends call u chest?
    haha nah just dont feel like puttin my real name

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by USfighterFC
    Bro i bounced for years at diff clubs in NYC including webster hall and crobar and this is a house party which should be ok. Use your words first since you can. In clubs I worked there was no talking to people since the jsic was blasting and the whole idea was to just get them out the door as quickly as possible with as little damage and least amount of attention. Just be confident you can handle yourself just fine. You'll do just fine. And dont go pulling guard like they teach you with BJJ cuz that doesnt necessarily work with more than one person LOL.

    ya, pulling guard inside in a group of people is probably a bad idea. but ya, as for your other advice, thanks, and should i take this "job" ill keep that in mind.

  20. #20
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    9pm-2am isn't shit. wear a suit, dress the part. get yourself some experience and easy money.

  21. #21
    BOUNCER is offline Retired Vet
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    DEpends on how badly you need the money. I've been working door's for over 15yrs now, but I don't know the legalities in the USA. Except that I know you have redicules alcohol laws.

    I know you say its a house party etc. but at least here in Ireland statistics will show you that more stabbings and serious assaults are caused in the house, both domestically and at parties.

    Three months BJJ training!. I don't mean to offend you, but after three months you can hardly tie your white belt so don't rely on that. One months M.T. training, likewise.

    Unless your on a little power trip, and its hard for a 21 yr old to admit to that, I wouldn't do it.

    Again I'm not sure about your laws over there regarding public liabilty etc, but remember if the party doesn't have private cover (specifically covering functions) you may be personally liable for any injuries, loss of property etc etc etc.

    You already had concerns about this party, personally I think your walking a mine field. Thread carefully my friend.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOUNCER
    Again I'm not sure about your laws over there regarding public liabilty etc, but remember if the party doesn't have private cover (specifically covering functions) you may be personally liable for any injuries, loss of property etc etc etc.
    Excellent point.

    I believe that the person who is throwing the party and paying you for your security work, will consider you to be a subcontractor.

    That means that you will be considered liable for any injuries or loss of property that happens to you, or that you inflict on anyone else.

    If you are hurt, you will be responsible for the medical bills.

    If you hurt anyone there or anything gets broken, as a direct result of your actions, you would be responsible for repairs and or medical bills.

  23. #23
    lucabratzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USfighterFC
    Bro i bounced for years at diff clubs in NYC including webster hall and crobar and this is a house party which should be ok. Use your words first since you can. In clubs I worked there was no talking to people since the jsic was blasting and the whole idea was to just get them out the door as quickly as possible with as little damage and least amount of attention. Just be confident you can handle yourself just fine. You'll do just fine. And dont go pulling guard like they teach you with BJJ cuz that doesnt necessarily work with more than one person LOL.
    those are some pretty phat clubs...

  24. #24
    skinnyhb's Avatar
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    ya, i definately realize i have nothing in martial arts training, hence why im tapping all the time.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucabratzi
    those are some pretty phat clubs...

    And a total pain in the ass to work in.

  26. #26
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    ( how do you delete double posts? )
    Last edited by GQ-Bouncer; 01-20-2006 at 02:54 PM.

  27. #27
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    Kindness will always win affection. The trick to winning peoples affection is to care a little about them a bit. - make sure their tags arent sticking out the neckline of their shirt, there pants arent tucked into their shoes, positively reinforce people who look like they've taken awhile to look good, etc. etc.

    Being social and displaying confidence (even if your not, fake it) are the keys to being successful while working the door.

    If you do get into a fight, it is VERY VERY VERY important to hospitalize the person who attacks you - this is absolutley critical, with no exceptions.

    have fun brutha!
    tell us how it goes

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by GQ-Bouncer

    If you do get into a fight, it is VERY VERY VERY important to hospitalize the person who attacks you - this is absolutley critical, with no exceptions.

    have fun brutha!
    tell us how it goes

    This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. How many aggravated assault charges do you have pending against you bro?

  29. #29
    chest6's Avatar
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    haha i love reading all his posts about bouncing

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by GQ-Bouncer
    Kindness will always win affection. The trick to winning peoples affection is to care a little about them a bit. - make sure their tags arent sticking out the neckline of their shirt, there pants arent tucked into their shoes, positively reinforce people who look like they've taken awhile to look good, etc. etc.

    Being social and displaying confidence (even if your not, fake it) are the keys to being successful while working the door.

    If you do get into a fight, it is VERY VERY VERY important to hospitalize the person who attacks you - this is absolutley critical, with no exceptions.

    have fun brutha!
    tell us how it goes

    what?

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by USfighterFC
    This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. How many aggravated assault charges do you have pending against you bro?
    currently? only 1
    i have never been charged with any crime , because i legitametly have never done anything wrong or commited a crime

    If someone attacks you - it is within your legal right to defend yourself. Anyone who attacks you, it would be reasonable to assume he is going to kill you. fighting on the street is combat not just brawling. As such, if someone attacks you w/o reason and by suprise, it would be reasonable to believe it was an ambush, an ambush is intended to kill you. If he is "talkin shit" all you have to confirm is that he said to you "i'll kill you" or "i'll fvck you up" whatever confirms his intentions to cause you grievous bodily harm or death

    If you are alone & working security, you cant run away (after all, your working) the only thing to truly guarantee your safety, is your opponents complete incapacitation, this means he must be physically incapable of attacking you or anybody under your protection (which conviently happens to be every guest at your party)

    Choke him out, tear out his shoulder with a keylock

    afterwords, call the police to have him arrested & administer first aid, dont allow anyone to attack him further



    (Criminal Code)

    Section 34 - Self-defence against unprovoked assault
    (If someone attacks you, using my advice above, your safe)

    Section 35 - Self-Defense in case of aggression
    (similiar to section 34, except they dont have to assault you, just threaten you)

    Section 39 - Defence with claim of right
    (you may use reasonable force to remove trespasser from your property)

    Section 38, subpara 2 = Assault by trespasser
    ( a person asked to leave your party, and aggressively refuses, forces you to take action, whereby he assaults you by forcing you into action)





    remember, if someone attacks you, assume he is intending to kill you

  32. #32
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    Thats canadian laws first off and american laws are a lot stricter. You can only use as much force as used upon you in america. If you continue to beat him after he's subdued or defenseless it becomes a crime and a pretty serious one at that. If he attacks me with a knife than i'll assume he's trying to kill me, other than that its simple assault not attempted murder.
    Last edited by USfighterFC; 01-20-2006 at 03:47 PM.

  33. #33
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    Further more how are you being charged with aggravated assault but you've never been charged with a crime.....assault is a crime last time i looked. Bro you'd have a lot of problems if you worked down here man

  34. #34
    GQ-Bouncer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USfighterFC
    Thats canadian laws first off and american laws are a lot stricter. You can only use as much force as used upon you in america. If you continue to beat him after he's subdued or defenseless it becomes a crime and a pretty serious one at that. If he attacks me with a knife than i'll assume he's trying to kill me, other than that its simple assault not attempted murder.
    You can be charged and found not guilty, or, more commonly have the case dismissed before going to court

    it's the same here, "reasonable apprehension of force" i believe is how the book put it.

    What is the objective of violence? a logical person would assume it would be to kill wouldnt they? Violence isnt casual, anyone who initiates it is a criminal. I just consider myself a logical person. Section 34/35 dictates that you may "use force to repel force"

    though i'm not a complete idiot, i take heavy concern into witnesses (both for and against), cameras, situation (has he been drinking? history of violence? gang association?) etc.

    i'm looking up american law now, i'll post in a bit
    Last edited by GQ-Bouncer; 01-20-2006 at 04:13 PM.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by GQ-Bouncer
    You can be charged and found not guilty, or, more commonly have the case dismissed before going to court

    it's the same here, "reasonable apprehension of force" i believe is how the book put it.

    What is the objective of violence? a logical person would assume it would be to kill wouldnt they? Violence isnt casual, anyone who initiates it is a criminal. I just consider myself a logical person. Section 34/35 dictates that you may "use force to repel force"

    though i'm not a complete idiot, i take heavy concern into witnesses (both for and against), cameras, situation (has he been drinking? history of violence? gang association?) etc.

    i'm looking up american law now, i'll post in a bit

    Well you gotta lotta lookin to do cuz it varies in all 50 states. Objective of violence= intent to kill? "Use force to repel force" Pretty vague isnt it? So according to your logic if I'm trying to toss someone out of a club with some violence involved but no weapons, he can stab me to death and he will be found not guilty because my intent was to kill him because I'm trying to drag him out the door and he's allowed to meet forice with force no matter what degree

  36. #36
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    there's always more than that,

    did you ask him to leave before laying hands on him?

  37. #37
    NotSmall is offline English Rudeboy
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    Quote Originally Posted by GQ-Bouncer
    What is the objective of violence? a logical person would assume it would be to kill wouldnt they?
    Erm...no.
    I have punched a few people in my time and it was not my intention to kill any of them.
    I used to work the doors over here and you would never get away with hospitalising every person who attacked you - in fact I find it very hard to believe that you woud get away with that in Canada either.

  38. #38
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    lol holy shit - your allowed to legally carry loaded concealed handguns for "self defense"

    (looking up california state law)

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by GQ-Bouncer
    there's always more than that,

    did you ask him to leave before laying hands on him?

    Doesnt matter what I do he can't pull a weapon and use it if I dont have a weapon. If he uses it, its jail time for him and vice versa. The only time I'm allowed to use deadly force under NY State laws is if deadly force is used upon me ONLY IF THERE IS NO OTHER OPTION. Meaning if a man has a gun I can use a gun on him only if I have absolutely no other option or cannot escape.

  40. #40
    USfighterFC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GQ-Bouncer
    lol holy shit - your allowed to legally carry loaded concealed handguns for "self defense"

    (looking up california state law)

    You need a carrying permit and a concealed weapon permit which is easier said than done to obtain.

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