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  1. #1
    Terinox's Avatar
    Terinox is offline The One & Only
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    Two questions about driving manual auto...

    Hi ya'll, I recently posted my "Eagle Talon Question" thread and if you did read that one, you know that instead of the Talon I ended up getting a 1997 Saturn SC1. It is a manual. This is the first manual car I have ever owned. I know how to drive one of course and i'm pretty good at it, just two questions I need to ask...

    1. The saturn is front wheel drive (naturally, i'm guessing) and so, every now and then, I like to burn a little rubber. I don't do it much, but every now and then, I like to hear those wheels SQUEEEEK!!! Now to do this, I hit the gas while my foot is still slightly on the clutch and then release and it squeeks nicely. What i'm wondering is this really bad for the engine? Is it "slightly" bad for the engine? I don't do it all the time like I said, just very seldom. You all (who drive a manual) must know what i mean! Is there another way to do it? Less harmful?

    2. This question is about double shifting. Sometimes, I accelerate real fast in first gear, I take the car up to 40km/h and my RPM is about 5k, and then, from 1st gear, I go straight into 3rd. Is this also bad for the gears? Or is this okay?

    Thnx again for all the help with these questions I ask
    T.

  2. #2
    KeyMastur is offline VET
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    1 - you can burn up your clutch that way. sure as hell is fun. kinda like powerbreaking for us with automatics

    2 - it's ok to shift from 1st to 3rd. just like it's ok to start in 2nd gear. all about power.

  3. #3
    tatty's Avatar
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    1. Clutch will wear out quickly like KeyMastur said. Another way you do it is use your ebrake instead and drop it quickly while still slightly holding the clutch and gassing. I don't know if you understand, but it's kind of hard to explain.

    2. Double shifting is fine. Just don't do the 5th gear to 3rd, (4th to 2nd and so on) or you'll blow your engine. A good rule to remember is never to downshift into first. I used to do it on my old car but only under very slow speeds. Lastly, downshifting in general is hard on your synchros and might decrease the life of your transmission.

  4. #4
    Terinox's Avatar
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    Originally posted by tatty
    1. Clutch will wear out quickly like KeyMastur said. Another way you do it is use your ebrake instead and drop it quickly while still slightly holding the clutch and gassing. I don't know if you understand, but it's kind of hard to explain.

    2. Double shifting is fine. Just don't do the 5th gear to 3rd, (4th to 2nd and so on) or you'll blow your engine. A good rule to remember is never to downshift into first. I used to do it on my old car but only under very slow speeds. Lastly, downshifting in general is hard on your synchros and might decrease the life of your transmission.

    Thnx for the response guys.

    I will try and not burn rubber as much! Hehe, by the way, about how much would a new clutch cost? Estimating?

    In terms of down shifting, i never downshift. If i need to stop the car, or slow down, i just take it out of gear and put it into neutral, and then if i need to accel again, i just put it into the gear it needs to go into. Is this bad? Should i actually manually downshift like 5th to 4th, etc...?

    Also, when you pull up to a red light, I also usually just put it into neutral, instead of keeping it in first, is this bad?

  5. #5
    KeyMastur is offline VET
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    If you downshift to slow, it'll save your brakes. But, if you're like 300 yards from a redlight, you can coast in neutral until it hits green, then find the gear like you said, and go from there.

    Keeping it in neutral while at a red light is fine. I do it just to give my foot a rest and kick back for a few seconds.

  6. #6
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    You guys are making miss driving my old 4 speed Corvette...
    I have many fine memories of lining up against some big block Chevelle SS's and Camaros and ripping though the gears....

    Driving isn't the same with an automatic...

  7. #7
    KeyMastur is offline VET
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    Originally posted by buff87
    Driving isn't the same with an automatic...
    No, it's not. It's always fun to feel like you're a Nascar driver, even if you don't have much juice in your engine. My father used to have this SAAB that I would borrow every now and then just because it was automatic. Man was that fun seeing how fast I could shift gears and get my speed up as fast as possible.

  8. #8
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    I couldnt be exact on the price, but my dad owned a couple tranny shops down here in the states, but in a front whell drive car it is mostly the labor, a new clutch plate wont cost you more than about 150.00, as long as you can re-use the fly wheel, but a fly whell can get expensive if you toast that. I bet you could get a new clutch put in for about 500.00 american. You will know if you are having a clutch going out by its "Slipping". You will notice it doesnt have as much grabbing power. Another good test is, while in 5th gear at a low speed put the gas petal to the floor, if the RPM's increase with out you MPH increase, you got a problem.

  9. #9
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    Originally posted by KeyMastur
    If you downshift to slow, it'll save your brakes. But, if you're like 300 yards from a redlight, you can coast in neutral until it hits green, then find the gear like you said, and go from there.
    Brake pads are so much cheaper than trannies.

  10. #10
    skid's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Terinox
    Hehe, by the way, about how much would a new clutch cost? Estimating?

    In terms of down shifting, i never downshift. If i need to stop the car, or slow down, i just take it out of gear and put it into neutral, and then if i need to accel again, i just put it into the gear it needs to go into. Is this bad? Should i actually manually downshift like 5th to 4th, etc...?

    Also, when you pull up to a red light, I also usually just put it into neutral, instead of keeping it in first, is this bad?
    I think Ryan is pretty accurate at $500US ... could be more tho, depending on how difficult it is to drop the tranny, and if they have to drop the engine with it.

    You don't need to downshift when braking, and doing so will only wear out your clutch faster. Tatty is right - pads are cheaper than a new clutch.

    Leaving the trans in neutral at a light is the best idea. Sitting there in 1st and the clutch pedal depressed will only serve to wear out your throwout bearings, again reducing the life of the clutch.

  11. #11
    Terinox's Avatar
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    Sweet, thnx for the replies, u guys answered all the q's I had

    Thnx again
    T.

  12. #12
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    You can actually smoke your tires once you get some practice in. I've always owned a manual and currently have a 6spd rwd so smoking tires is no problem.

    If your gas pedal is close to your brake pedal you can actually roll your foot over the brake onto the gas. It takes practice (I learned it in racing classes but for a different reason). Just something to fuck with.

    You don't really have to put your car in gear at a light but I always do cuz you never know what could happen. I see many people go to neutral in turns. If you have to accelerate for some reason you're fucked. So keep it in gear.

    Learn to use your E-brake on hills. This way you won't roll backwards and hit somebody.

  13. #13
    Terinox's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Vegas Kid


    Learn to use your E-brake on hills. This way you won't roll backwards and hit somebody.
    You mean you put it in E-brake on a hill, and then when you accelerate, instead of using the break you use the hand brake? Like you slowly bring it down as you accelerate?

    I never use the hand brake, I always just use the clutch/break and so far my timing has always been good enough. I think you guys have some MAD hills though. We don't really have too many really high uphills.

  14. #14
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    hey terinox i had a standard,and i always always burned out ! but i a real car (t/a) j/k , anyways i never really replaced my clutch in the 8 yrs i had it except to get a beefier one , not that the stock one was messed up i just wanted a better one, the problem with your car and what you gotta watch for is that your car is front wheel drive, and if you do it hard enough(peel out that is) it can wreck havoc on your cv joints and they are not cheap to replace! and you also gotta watch the engine stabilizer they are made of hard rubber and i have seen some actually rip after guys have burned out hard enough, they did have thier cars a little supped up, but if yours is stock i wouldnt think you cuold do it but it would depend on hard you do it thuogh

  15. #15
    m16a2 is offline Senior Member
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    Re: Two questions about driving manual auto...

    Originally posted by Terinox
    Hi ya'll, I recently posted my "Eagle Talon Question" thread and if you did read that one, you know that instead of the Talon I ended up getting a 1997 Saturn SC1. It is a manual. This is the first manual car I have ever owned. I know how to drive one of course and i'm pretty good at it, just two questions I need to ask...

    1. The saturn is front wheel drive (naturally, i'm guessing) and so, every now and then, I like to burn a little rubber. I don't do it much, but every now and then, I like to hear those wheels SQUEEEEK!!! Now to do this, I hit the gas while my foot is still slightly on the clutch and then release and it squeeks nicely. What i'm wondering is this really bad for the engine? Is it "slightly" bad for the engine? I don't do it all the time like I said, just very seldom. You all (who drive a manual) must know what i mean! Is there another way to do it? Less harmful?

    2. This question is about double shifting. Sometimes, I accelerate real fast in first gear, I take the car up to 40km/h and my RPM is about 5k, and then, from 1st gear, I go straight into 3rd. Is this also bad for the gears? Or is this okay?

    Thnx again for all the help with these questions I ask
    T.
    1. Basically all your doing is a peel-out, the way you do it really doesn't affect your car differently. If you give it alot of gas and then drop the clutch it would have the same effect on your rear-end, but maybe more stressful on your transmission. I recently had to have my entire rear-differential replaced because I drove my car way too hard. Luckily it happened while it was under factory warranty still. I wouldn't recommend peeling out at every light, but once in a while shouldn't hurt. Just remember, if your not under warranty, and your not rich driving aggressivly can be costly. A new transmission is killer, so is a new rear end, and don't forget about those damn tires.

    My tires cost a whoppin' 300 each, 275x40x17

    2. Skip-shifting shouldn't hurt your transmission at all. However, if you down-shift for power (basically the same effect as slamming on the gas in an automatic), REMEMBER TO REV-MATCH. You can fuc* up your clutch and gears if you don't rev-match when you downshift.

  16. #16
    Terinox's Avatar
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    What do you mean by rev match?

  17. #17
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    Originally posted by Terinox
    What do you mean by rev match?
    RPM to speed
    You dont wanna do 55 in 4th and downshift to 1rst being 10-20mph range.But you have a saturn (or any newer car)usually has a locking devise to prevent this.My first car was a old plymouth TC3 and was going about 70(was gonna downshift to 3rd)Hit 1rst by accident,car came to a screeching halt heard a pop and the clutch was dust.

  18. #18
    jake66 is offline New Member
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    Car

    I own a 93 Mustang 5.0 so I do my share of burning rubber. Anyhow it is better to "pop" or release you clutch quickly than to "slip" let it out slowly while the engine is revving. That is while doing a burnout. Think of it as this when you "pop" the clutch it is very very quickly grabbing if you will a metal wheel, would you rather it grab it or slowly grab it while slowly wearing some of the material off your clutch.
    Clutches are cheap it is the labor that is expensive. $200 for clutch $400 for labor. That is inless you drive a stang and it can be done in about 3 hours by yourself.
    Hope this helps....owe yeah I didn't mean to sound like the cocky a$$ know it all

  19. #19
    m16a2 is offline Senior Member
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    If you pop the clutch, then you are putting more damage and stress on the rear-differential. I'm sure that saturn has made their rear ends alot weaker than ford or GM. They are not used to people peeling out alot, therefore they wouldn't have very strong 'catching' systems for your gears. While 'popping' it might save your clutch, it will only damage your rear-differential which involves alot of labor and parts, not to mention the gradual destruction and reduction in performance.

  20. #20
    jake66 is offline New Member
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    driving

    Seeing that it is an eagle talon, It doesn't have a "rear end" it is front wheel drive. Only rear wheel drive and 4x4's have rear differentials to transfer power to the ground. But yes, either way it is putting a good amount of shock on all the parts in the driveline. The tires are the part that is breaking loose, later down the road it might be something else. Just my $.02 Thanks Jake T.

  21. #21
    Terinox's Avatar
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    Thnx for all the info boyz, really helpful!

    Another question I have is how do you drive in heavy traffic? I think this is pretty much the last thing to ask.

    I mean, when in heavy traffic, do you keep it in first, and gradually go the 2-3 meters, and just keep it in 1st. And then stop, and keep the gear in first, and just keep going 2-3 meters at a time (according to the traffic). I don't really see any other way of driving! Other then constantly taking it out of 1st and putting it back in, but is that okay? Does that mess up the gears? Shifter? Or is it worse to keep your foot on the clutch during the whole rush hour???

    Thnx again.
    T.

  22. #22
    skid's Avatar
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    driving in traffic is a PITA - thankfully I only have to do it one day/week

    I usually leave A LOT of space between me and the car in front and try to meter my speed (in 1st) so I stop as few times as possible ... often if I keep it slow, the stopped cars in front will start moving again before I arrive

    of course sometimes it pisses off the person behind, and I get a kick out of watching them RACE around me, just to be 30 feet farther ahead, and stuck on the next guy up's bumper

  23. #23
    m16a2 is offline Senior Member
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    Re: driving

    Originally posted by jake66
    Seeing that it is an eagle talon, It doesn't have a "rear end" it is front wheel drive. Only rear wheel drive and 4x4's have rear differentials to transfer power to the ground. But yes, either way it is putting a good amount of shock on all the parts in the driveline. The tires are the part that is breaking loose, later down the road it might be something else. Just my $.02 Thanks Jake T.
    Sorry my mistake, I'm used to GM with rear-wheel drive.

    But eitherway, the point I was making was that it'll effect the drivetrain.

  24. #24
    m16a2 is offline Senior Member
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    When I'm in traffic, its a bitch, but I'm used to it by now. Skid is right about leaving the distance between you and the guy in front of you. You don't need to make it a big gap, but its not gonna be as small as if you were in an automatic.

    As far as shifting goes, I usually leave the car in first and don't even bother putting it in neutral unless its a dead stop. When you get to those short cruise points at around 15-20, drop it in 2nd and don't give it any gas, when the traffic stops again, drop down to first and just break while your foot is still on the clutch.

    There's no simple way to handle heavy traffic, but you'll get used to it.

  25. #25
    Vegas Kid's Avatar
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    Keep it in first and just depress the clutch. If at a light you can put it neutral to rest your foot.

    BTW, maguilla mentioned the engine stabalizers....My girl's saturn (same as yours) had her engine mount colapse. No big deal but still, the car doesn't work well without it.

  26. #26
    mique's Avatar
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    Step one - apply e-brake
    Step two- floor gas pedal (on right)
    Step three- dump clutch
    Step four- buy new tires

  27. #27
    Terinox's Avatar
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    Damn I keep coming up with questions, I thought I wad done, hehe. Owning a manual isn't easy!

    Okay, here is my question. I was wondering if i'm shifting too soon or too late. I usually go to about 2.5-3 RPM in first gear before I switch to second, is that too late? Then, usually, from second to third and from third to fourth I shift usually when it's about 2.5-3.5 RPM. Is this too soon? Sometimes I can feel that the car doesn't want to go. Like if i'm going 50km/h, i put it into 4th, and it slows down a lot and struggles. I think I do shift too soon to the next gear.

    I think the problem with me is the second I hear the engine rev up, I want to shift, I don't even pay attention to the RPM. I FEEL the car needs to go up a gear. Even if it doesn't! LOL

    Plz help me with this!!!

    Thnx

  28. #28
    m16a2 is offline Senior Member
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    Terinox,

    It basically all depends on your car. My car for example, redlines at 5.5 RPM. I usually shift around 2 - 2.5 RPM max. The way you drive will have a major impact on your gas mileage too. Think of it this way... the harder you press on that gas petal, the more gas your using. Then when you drive your standard, imagine yourself driving an automatic... it should be a smooth ride without alot of jerking of the car. Its impossible to tell you how to shift unless I were to ride in your car, but some good advice is to just learn to shift at a point where the car feels comfortable. It should be a smoooth shift.

    If the RPM is too high, then you waited too long, obviously, and it will drop hard into the next gear (it'll pull back a little).

    If your RPM is too low when you shift, the new gear will make a deep sound of a wheel turning too slow for the pully (which is exactly whats happening).

    You also might try giving it a tap of gas while you drop the clutch into gear, it'll make the drive smoother.

  29. #29
    Terinox's Avatar
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    Originally posted by rampage76
    Terinox,

    It basically all depends on your car. My car for example, redlines at 5.5 RPM. I usually shift around 2 - 2.5 RPM max. The way you drive will have a major impact on your gas mileage too. Think of it this way... the harder you press on that gas petal, the more gas your using. Then when you drive your standard, imagine yourself driving an automatic... it should be a smooth ride without alot of jerking of the car. Its impossible to tell you how to shift unless I were to ride in your car, but some good advice is to just learn to shift at a point where the car feels comfortable. It should be a smoooth shift.

    If the RPM is too high, then you waited too long, obviously, and it will drop hard into the next gear (it'll pull back a little).

    If your RPM is too low when you shift, the new gear will make a deep sound of a wheel turning too slow for the pully (which is exactly whats happening).

    You also might try giving it a tap of gas while you drop the clutch into gear, it'll make the drive smoother.
    Thnx for the advice, it makes sense...that it all depends on the car

    I guess it's just a matter of practice and timing.

  30. #30
    m16a2 is offline Senior Member
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    Definitely, just keep driving and learning the soft spots with your clutch. Once you get a feel for it, you won't even notice the shifts. Unless, of course, you are smoking a cigerette, talking on the cell phone, and trying to take a sip of some gatorade, while shifting.

    Sounds tough, but I managed to do it all until the light turned yellow, then the gatorade fell on my shirt, the cigerette fell on my lap, and the cell phone was accidently closed. Anyways, THE POINT IS, you'll get used to it!!

    If you have any more questions, just shoot.

  31. #31
    skid's Avatar
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    that's classic, rampage! I remember doing the same once in college - cig, shifting, cell, and drink (no cupholders) ... 'cept I was on the freeway so I got away incident-free ... and I remember being QUITE impressed with myself

  32. #32
    m16a2 is offline Senior Member
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    Originally posted by skid
    that's classic, rampage! I remember doing the same once in college - cig, shifting, cell, and drink (no cupholders) ... 'cept I was on the freeway so I got away incident-free ... and I remember being QUITE impressed with myself
    HAHAHA, yeah and the really funny thing is that you were probably on the 405 at night huh?

    lol

  33. #33
    skid's Avatar
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    ACTUALLY, I was on the 805 at about 3pm, but your point still stands

  34. #34
    m16a2 is offline Senior Member
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    Hahaha, well, I don't even know what the hell the 805 is, I was on jamboree road at the time I think. The damn speed limit is 50 which means everyone goes 60, and the light turns yellow, man, you gotta break hard!

  35. #35
    skid's Avatar
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    HAHAHA - yep, everybody drives AT LEAST 10 over the limit, and now that we've got TONS of redlight cameras, you DO need to stop pretty hard

    btw, the 805 is in San Diego (where I went to college)

  36. #36
    m16a2 is offline Senior Member
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    ahhh, that's right. I only goto san diego when I go to TJ. Its about an hour from oc/irvine, so screw it. Well if you have a veneral disease, your probably an SDSU grad.... lucky guy!

  37. #37
    skid's Avatar
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    nope, no VDs - I'm a UCSD grad ... we didn't party, we just studied (yeah, right! my grades were good 'til I joined the Fraternity)

  38. #38
    m16a2 is offline Senior Member
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    No shit? I'm ummmm, check your PM about that one. But yeah, no parties over here either, I study. I try to party once in a while. What frat did you join?

  39. #39
    skid's Avatar
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    Phi Kappa Theta, California Phi Zeta ... "GO PHI KAPS!"

    (poor Terinox ... and all he wanted was to learn how to drive stick ...)

  40. #40
    m16a2 is offline Senior Member
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    HAHAHA, wellll, he got more htan he bargained for!!! You can't complain!

    I don't think any of the frats on my campus are worth joining, but I'll have a better idea next year, since my dorms will be in the same facility as the frat/sorority house's

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