Who wins in an allout Brawl?

**HARDCORE** · 05-24-2003, 11:38 PM

I'd say Dorian in his prime would destroy them all. He was thick as hell-I think you could've driven a mac truck into him and he wouldn't have felt it, and if you've ever seen blood and guts you can see what an animal he is. He also grew up in Birmingham which is known for being poor and rundown, and you'd have to be tough to survive growing up in a place like that-I've also read that he was in jail for fighting quite a bit before he started bbing.

**@Brandon.s** · 06-07-2003, 10:08 AM

If you post in a MMAfighter forum about how badass Pro BB´s are in a fight you would be flamed to death.
If you have no fighting background like most pro BB´s then
you only have your killer instincts and no skill.
Some BB´s are scared little boys inside a big body and some are indeed tough.
When I have the rare opportunity to do some sparring with bodybuilders,
I notice that most of them are pathetic fighters.
I think the worst one was a 240-260lbs guy big, but high bf%
I threw a jab at him(it did not connect) he closed his eyes turned away his head and made a girlish sqeeky noise.
Then we skipped the striking, and decided to only do some grappling.
He had no coordination, started turn read and breathe like he was going to die after 20 sec. I took him down putting his right arm in a triangle and was about to start crank a little but he said stop stop claiming that he pulled his hamstring? and could not do anymore sparring, and I barely touched him.....
So he went home out of breath, hurting who knows maybe crying. But the sad fact is that he can still go around with his typical bb physique,big arms quads and back and he can intimidate people making them go:"oh no I dont want mess with you, you are soo big plz help..."
A big pro actually have one thing they can do in a fight that is pretty good, but many times they tear their own pec or biceps by doing it, since it is not the usual lift a barbel up and down movement.
The move is picking up the opponent and slam him into the ground.

**stillsmall** · 06-13-2003, 01:36 AM

lol wtf... brandon.. seriously.. haha.. this is funny... so you fought some wuss of a bodybuilder who can't even handle his own grandma let alone you and you judge it like that? sorry to say but most of these pros grew up with awesome genetics and have played many contact sports along the way.. Most people do not want to just LOOK BIG, they wanna have the power to back it up..

what you did with that guy was sparring.. you were striking first and then grappling second.. never a combination of the two.. try putting his life on the line against you and see if there's a beast inside.. You'd be surprised what a man can do when he is threatened.. Plenty of skilled fighters have fallen under a flurry of punches and kicks that had no aim, no purpose, and no mercy.. just pure, unadulterated power.

**stillsmall** · 06-13-2003, 01:37 AM

and of course i'd expect to be flamed heavily at a MMA board... not even a kid is gonna be stupid enough to believe that they'd say something like "oh yeah, you are right... they are bigger and stronger and even with my skills i'd run like a little bitch in 5 secs"

**Lacrosseman** · 06-13-2003, 04:44 PM

You know who should be included, freakin butterbean! That man is a monster, no cut at all but he's strong as a damn ox. I'd wager that he could grapple a little as well. He's the only boxer I think that might be able to hold his own, not sure about win but hold his own. Now if he catches one of those mofo's across the jaw with his right hook? It's bye bye birdy....

**kristian** · 06-14-2003, 09:38 AM

Well the Finnish strongman competitor Jouko Ahola did pretty well in ultimate fighting without much training for the sport. I used to fight for 6 years but I wouldn't want to mess with a guy like that.

It doesn't matter if you have practiced martial arts or fighting, if you let a guy like that grab you once - you're gone. Size and strength DO matter in a fight, especially when it's a "no rules" streetfight. Believe it or not.

**stillsmall** · 06-15-2003, 09:30 AM

dayum straight kristian...

**@Brandon.s** · 06-16-2003, 09:47 AM

Size and strength matter yes I agree.
It sounds however like you overemphasize the importance of BW.
Aholas only win was over Boogie Mustonen a finish bodybuilder.
I train Shoto at pancrase Gym and the biggest guy in my group is about
240lbs.
He knows how to fight and I beat him more often than he beats me in sparring.
My trainer on the other hand is about 210 and he is one mean fighting machine, I would never dream about going up and try to fight him in a real fight, even if I probably can lift heavier weights than him in the gym.

Put a 200lbs experienced shootfighter(not some silly karate-boy)against a 270lbs bodybuilder with no skills, in streetfight and I bet the shootf will
win 99times of 100.
Even if it is a bodybuilder arm, the arm breaks very easily in an armbar.
Size combined with FIGHTINGSKILLS can be scary like 380lbs with visible abs Bob Sapp(semi-skilled) .
I remember when he missed a punch, only the forearm hit the head of the opponent and it still knocked him out.
But Bob Sapp are losing more than he is winning aginst smaller opponents.
Like the time when Crocop 213lbs destroyed Sapp.
A big bodybuilder with no skills is not a real threat IMHO.
But I have to admit lifting weights improved my grappling strength,
and striking power.

**saboudian** · 06-16-2003, 04:22 PM

I honestly don't understand your point brandon, what is your point?

No doubt that there are probably a few BBers that are probably pretty poor fighters, but most of these guys have great genetics and have been playing sports all through high school and the whole 9 yards. I think you are definitely underestimating what a lot of these pros are capable of, the majority of these guys are just incredible athletes.

I think the main reason is that BBing requires more dedication than any other sport, and this results in some very talented athletes, but usually ppl just look at them like big clumsy mounds of muscle, when they started out as fighters, football players,etc.

Obviously if you make a pro basketball player play an ice hockey player in ice hockey, the ice hockey player is usually going to win, after all it is his own sport.

And what the hell, this thread isn't even about matching BBers against pro fighters.

**@Brandon.s** · 06-17-2003, 04:04 AM

My point is most Pros have impressive bodies, some are very strong.
but they are not very good fighters, get it?
Maybe if you were a trained fighter yourself you would understand it better...

They are not trained to fight, lacking cardio they gass after a few seconds, and their muscles are very fragile to fighting movements often resulting in torn muscles.
Practising non fighting sports in their younger years does not make them better fighters and it does not help their current cardio-status.
Synthol actually makes you weaker.
To answer your original question I would guess Cormier since he used to wrestle 20years ago or so(if he can remember any moves).
Matarazzo had some boxing indeed but with such power it is very easy to break your hands against a head( even I broke mine in a streetfight).

The part about skilled fighters versus BB´s were an answer to stillsmalls post.
I still say try posting on a real fighters forum that they are underestimating Probodybuilders capability of fighting, you would be flamed to death.

I guess we have to agree about disagreeing.

**saboudian** · 06-17-2003, 05:10 AM

I honestly still think you're underestimating alot of the pro BBers. Not all of them are just big clumsy muscle bound freaks.

It still amazes me when you see how many of these guys can do the splits on stage and tommy thorvildsen even does a flip in his routine.

Gunter even claims to have a resting heartbeat of 40, even if this isn't true and say its actually 50, thats still incredibly impressive for a man his size or anyone's size.

Hell, not too long ago, levrone challenged an olympic sprinter to a race. Even though he lost, i never would have guessed seeing a race like that.

Flex wheeler when he was comin up in his younger years, he was so good in martial arts and BBing that he didn't know which one to take up. Only reason he chose BBing is because in show biz its more about who you know. He talked about winning tournaments without even being touched.

Hey man, if you think ronnie is big, clumsy,and fragile, i'd love to see you commit a crime when he is on duty. If i remember correctly, he did play college football, and i'm sure he managed to get through police training without tearing every single muscle in his body apart.

Obviously these guys aren't pro fighters, well some of em used to be, but they're pro BBers. But hell, what i wouldn't give to see a guy like you go up against a flex wheeler or a vince taylor, or some type of guy like that. I mean watching ronnie's training video scares most normal ppl to death, i can't imagine going up against him, a guy with incredible strength and most of all, knows how to use it.

**@Brandon.s** · 06-17-2003, 07:32 AM

I would love to go against Vince Taylor or Wheeler in the cage,
it would be fun.
Ronnie seem a bit tougher.

**wrstlr69sdnl** · 07-01-2003, 09:40 PM

I say Cris Cormier dude looks freaky dont want to get in his way

**GeoQuadzilla** · 07-25-2003, 12:31 PM

I think in my opinion it's all how you handled yourself before you started bodybuilding... Some ppl are just natural fighters... If an average joe taps into his genetics and becomes interested and flourishes in bodybuilding... strength, muscle, power, You'd be crazy to think they couldn't do damage... Infact they'd most likely stomp a hole in your head providing they know how to handle themselves. Bodybuilding builds character, it builds will power, It develops dedication, It helps you find the heart to push through huge obsticals, and when some ppl make the jump into anabolics and who are naturally agressive... believe me throw all the kicks you want... If you have a 250lb bodybuilder roid rageing... you better run, or cry, or pay him off... because you'll get hurt! That's just my opinion and im sure the opinion of many others.

**GeoQuadzilla** · 07-25-2003, 12:32 PM

and for the record... My Money is on Ronnie

**bigol'legs** · 07-27-2003, 03:11 PM

Just wanted to throw in "current cardio-status comments", Shit most of the pro's BB'rs do more cardio than I do and they BLOW me away in muscle size. When cutting they are in no way "easyily out of breathe" and do have endurance. And I would pick Dennis James just cause he's my fav.

**lloyd_cannon** · 07-27-2003, 04:10 PM

lol that oriental shit doesnt work in a street fight especially not for BBer's they arent able to bounce around It would be tackling grappling shit that is the best way to fight. You only punch someone when they are on the ground.

**lloyd_cannon** · 07-27-2003, 04:16 PM

bullshit about BB arm breaking in an arm bar
you do realize when bones are put under stress they develop just like a muscle does they fill in and become stronger and with all that supporting tisssue wrapped around the bone if the guy was flexing all the pressure support would make the bone almost unbreakable.

**BDTR** · 07-27-2003, 08:35 PM

I broke a HEAVY powerlifters/MMA arm in an arm bar in a match 3 years ago, it snapped just as easy as any others. All the size/strength in the world can't win you a fight, fighting is based almost soley on experience. I've seen a skinny buddy of mine who's in our fight league drop a 350 lbs bouncer in about 35 seconds then go to work on his buddy. I've fought people bigger than me who held black belts and double my martial arts experience who fell easier than most bar room brawls, ya know why? Cus they've never been in a fight. There is NOTHING like the real thing as far as gaining skill, no better teacher. I had 10 years of muay thai training, some BJJ work and there was NO better devolpment until i started our little underground NHB fight league. Everyone fights Atleast once a week, if you win the match you fight the next day. I saw people come in wimpy and after a year of this become total hardasses. As for these BB's listed, I think dorian would own them all. Dorian used to be a street/soccer hooligan as a kid, he had the tats to prove it, he's got experience. Alot of those guys have probably never been hit in the face.

**GeoQuadzilla** · 07-28-2003, 03:28 PM

Bingo Bdtr... that's the point I was getting across... it's all about fighting experience... you can't learn how to fight until you actually fight... that's what i tell everyone... It's one thing to talk about fighting... it's totally different when your doing it... small guys can take big guys... vice versa... It's all about how comfortable you feel when your in the middle of the whole thing. peace.

**@Brandon.s** · 07-30-2003, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by bdtr

I broke a HEAVY powerlifters/MMA arm in an arm bar in a match 3 years ago, it snapped just as easy as any others. All the size/strength in the world can't win you a fight, fighting is based almost soley on experience. I've seen a skinny buddy of mine who's in our fight league drop a 350 lbs bouncer in about 35 seconds then go to work on his buddy. I've fought people bigger than me who held black belts and double my martial arts experience who fell easier than most bar room brawls, ya know why? Cus they've never been in a fight. There is NOTHING like the real thing as far as gaining skill, no better teacher. I had 10 years of muay thai training, some BJJ work and there was NO better devolpment until i started our little underground NHB fight league. Everyone fights Atleast once a week, if you win the match you fight the next day. I saw people come in wimpy and after a year of this become total hardasses. As for these BB's listed, I think dorian would own them all. Dorian used to be a street/soccer hooligan as a kid, he had the tats to prove it, he's got experience. Alot of those guys have probably never been hit in the face.

Best post in the thread. Finally somone who knows what he is talking about.
Some of the computer nerds/tekken warriors who never even seen a MMA fight was posting some amusing stuff thou.

**BOUNCER** · 12-19-2003, 08:04 PM

You forgot to add Willy the school caretaker from 'The Simpsons'. He was ripped when he fought the wolf, man that was a mean MoFo

**bigol'legs** · 12-19-2003, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by Bouncer AKA bouncer

You forgot to add Willy the school caretaker from 'The Simpsons'. He was ripped when he fought the wolf, man that was a mean MoFo

That guy was scottish right.....?

**chicamahomico** · 12-19-2003, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by lloyd_cannon

bull**** about BB arm breaking in an arm bar
you do realize when bones are put under stress they develop just like a muscle does they fill in and become stronger and with all that supporting tisssue wrapped around the bone if the guy was flexing all the pressure support would make the bone almost unbreakable.

Most joints-locks, armbars, leg bars etc result in a tendon rupture or dislocation of the joint. Are you familiar with the concept of leverage? Thats how locks work. With an arm bar, its someone's entire body against your elbow.

**BOUNCER** · 12-19-2003, 08:28 PM

Yeah Legs, he was Scotish. A Celt like my good self

**bigol'legs** · 12-19-2003, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by Bouncer AKA bouncer

Yeah Legs, he was Scotish. A Celt like my good self

DOH!!! hehe than I meant Irish!

**winny100** · 12-21-2003, 12:58 PM

bob sapp is kicking arse on just size and strengh

**LightWeightBaby** · 01-13-2004, 12:14 AM

gunther could not beat up anyone he is just to nice

**jollygreenGIANT** · 02-01-2005, 11:55 PM

they r all too big and probably slow
i would say flex

**31uniform** · 02-02-2005, 07:19 AM

cutler, hes from worcester, ma.

**Monkeytown** · 02-02-2005, 10:01 AM

Where is Dexter? You left him out. Worried he would clean house, eh?

**MASTER** · 02-02-2005, 11:09 AM

I was on a mma forum a while back and they all said that they are gd at their martial art crap, but they would realistically stand no chance against a bodybuilder or huge wrestler, because theyd just grapple them and win. The only reason bobb sap doesnt win all his fights is becoz hes in k1, in ufc hed win them all, just pick his opponent up and dump them, which obvs u cant do in k1. Oh yeh and shawn ray wud b the last standin, becoz hed hide in the corner where no1 wud notice im.

**jollygreenGIANT** · 02-02-2005, 12:35 PM

i would say the only way to beat someone that big is to kick them in the nuts, but it seems as none of the pros today even have nuts anymore lol

**kaorialfred** · 02-02-2005, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by BOUNCER

You forgot to add Willy the school caretaker from 'The Simpsons'. He was ripped when he fought the wolf, man that was a mean MoFo

Oh yeah that's who I would pick.

Don't mess with Willy.

He's definately on Fina or something.

**jc3** · 02-02-2005, 12:44 PM

I'm with you beezer..... "I dunno but it would be fun to watch...ahhah"

**stayinstacked** · 02-02-2005, 01:34 PM

Are you guys kidding me??? With all the juice a pro bodybuilder is on, you'd need a gun to stop him. A guy like Ronnie Coleman would kill a boxer in an all out brawl. We are talking about an all out brawl, not boxing, as soon as he grabbed his ass it would be over with. And bodybuilders at a pro level are alot more flexible than you think.

**Panzerfaust** · 02-02-2005, 02:19 PM

All i will say is that the more muscle you have, the more oxygen your body needs. Being muscular like these guys is absolutely terrible for fighting.

Then again, they are not fighters, they are proffesional Body Builders.

**jollygreenGIANT** · 02-02-2005, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by stayinstacked

Are you guys kidding me??? With all the juice a pro bodybuilder is on, you'd need a gun to stop him. A guy like Ronnie Coleman would kill a boxer in an all out brawl. We are talking about an all out brawl, not boxing, as soon as he grabbed his ass it would be over with. And bodybuilders at a pro level are alot more flexible than you think.

yea i dont think so size doesnt mean shiit in a fight..u gotta have skill buddy...id put my money on a pro boxer in his prime in a street fight over any pro bodybuilder in his prime any day. id pick tyson in his prime..ronnie would be knocked out and on his gh gut in no time

***Narkissos*** · 02-02-2005, 08:34 PM

I still say Lee Priest...

From down there...he'd own everybody's nuts

**Win94** · 02-02-2005, 09:42 PM

ronnie cause he might have encountered brawl situations as a cop , he knows how to handle ppl

Sorry bro but Ronnie Coleman can barely walk without gasping for air. He is as mobile as the Statue of Liberty. Him being a cop has nothing to do with it. The force keeps him on either as a mascot or a paper pusher because their is no way in hell he passes a single endurance or speed drill.