Americans! K, this is pissing me off!!

**Got Gear?** · 03-18-2003, 01:16 PM

I've seen a disturbing trend lately and I've got to speak up!

This French, Germany, etc bashing has got to stop.

Things like "France should show Saddam how to surrender"
and "We helped free France from the German occupation, now they won't even help us with this..." Etc..

This CRAP shows how childish all of you can be.
COME ON!!! Fuck! France sacrificed WAY THE FUCK MORE than what the US did in WWII. The US turned a blind eye in WWII and decided to get fat selling weapons to other fighting countries. It wasn't until the Japs brought the war to your front door that American did anything. This "US, the saviors of the WWII nightmare" line of thinking has got to stop. In reality, America sat back and got rich off the war. America finally joined the war when they had no other choice. America's army was fresh, ready to go, and well funded from 3 years off of getting rich from the war. France, Russia, Britian.. they were the big saviors. And where were their allies? Their allies were getting rich.
America just gave the final push at the end to help win the war.

America bailed on it's allies in WWII while they were getting invaded and their countries almost lost. Now America is having trouble getting their allies to support them in waging a war agains another country and listen to the American people bitch cause France isn't helping. VERY hypocritical!

Lol.. America helped free France from the German occupation. WHERE THE HELL WAS AMERICA WHEN FRANCE WAS GETTING OCCUPIED?

France helped the US with gaining independance.

Basically what I'm saying is: These countries have helped you as well. Don't go acting like the US is all give and no get.

**palme** · 03-18-2003, 01:20 PM

Ive tryed pointing out that France helped them gain independence before. On some (not all) it goes in one ear and out the other

**daem** · 03-18-2003, 01:48 PM

america gave the final push to help win the war? you need to read up on your history a little more buddy because you aren't entirely correct.

agreed that the US did rest on its laurels while Europe was busy dealing with the Nazi threat, but when it did finally enter the power it gave to the allies was overwhelming. there was no final push involved here...without the aid of the US in WWII we might be living in an entirely different world. while countries like poland, austria, and france were being overwhelmed with superior technology and manpower the US was trying to determine how far Nazism could potentially reach. Pearl Harbor was the final straw before we got involved, however is it going to take some French tragedy to get them to finally support us?

btw, French assistance in the early history of our country is a different cup of tea than the present situation. Chirac is a pussy and only worried about his future in politics whereas Blair at least has some backbone. Does the man care that he has an overwhleming majority of British citizens protesting? No, instead he is doing what is NECESSARY at this point and what he knows to be the best course of action. the time for diplomacy is over, so our 'allies' can either hop aboard or stand by the wayside when Saddam or Al Qaeda obtains weapons that can target France or Germany.

***BIG TEXAN*** · 03-18-2003, 02:12 PM

Yeah....Bush is going to war because he's some yahoo cowboy....BS! He's going to war because of the ties that Saddam has with terrorists plus he's ignored every Un resolutio for years and we finally have someone with the "balls" to say enough is enough. What would happen if Bush just let him go. Eventually he'd probably start thinking..."well I've gotten away with this, lets see what else I can get away with." I'm pretty sure Bush didn't just pull a name out of a hat and say "HHhmmm Saddam....yeah that's who'll we'll go to war with today."

**Terinox** · 03-18-2003, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by BIG TEXAN
Yeah....Bush is going to war because he's some yahoo cowboy....BS! He's going to war because of the ties that Saddam has with terrorists plus he's ignored every Un resolutio for years and we finally have someone with the "balls" to say enough is enough. What would happen if Bush just let him go. Eventually he'd probably start thinking..."well I've gotten away with this, lets see what else I can get away with." I'm pretty sure Bush didn't just pull a name out of a hat and say "HHhmmm Saddam....yeah that's who'll we'll go to war with today."

Another problem however is where does it stop? I mean, once they finish with Iraq, is Iran next? They have no leads or proof of any terrorist support from Iran, but i'm SURE U.S. will find some excuse to go into Iran. Then who else? Saudi Arabia? Pakistan? The entire Middle East?

**Jdawg50** · 03-18-2003, 02:33 PM

Why dont they shoot off fireworks at Euro- Disney?
There afraid the French will surrender!

Yea, they bailed us out during the revolutionary war, what was that 200 years ago??
Fuck them, now they want to help out if there is chem weapons??? Comon, give me a break. Check out this pic, it's from Normandy, this is enough reason for them to back us on just about anything if you ask me!

The caption on the pics says
"Normandy Beach on the French coast, Guess who's buried there, and what they were doing to end up as one of the 10,943. Maybe we need new friends."

**FKITLETSGO** · 03-18-2003, 02:38 PM

what is the picture of?

***BIG TEXAN*** · 03-18-2003, 02:42 PM

That is alot of lives lost all because some "f" sicko Nazi SOB, but don't forget all the French lives lost as well. So I must say good point but also not much of a good one all together. Where does it stop....unfortanetly no one knows. I'm sure if anyone looks close enough they'll find reason to invade every damn country there is. I just beleive in this act as of now and pray that this will be the end. Also in my eyes it won't end until we have Osama's head on a stick stuck in the ground outside the white house!

**mammoth** · 03-18-2003, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by Jdawg50
Why dont they shoot off fireworks at Euro- Disney?
There afraid the French will surrender!

Yea, they bailed us out during the revolutionary war, what was that 200 years ago??
Fuck them, now they want to help out if there is chem weapons??? Comon, give me a break. Check out this pic, it's from Normandy, this is enough reason for them to back us on just about anything if you ask me!

Unfortunately I am no historian, so could you please explain what you meant about the normandy pic. I have no clue what that is a pic of.

I have no beef with the French. I have never met a frenchman and there actions have never effected me personally. I am curious as to why they are so adamantly opposed to us going to war with iraq. I need to pay more attention to world news!!

**wimp** · 03-18-2003, 02:44 PM

Originally posted by FKITLETSGO
what is the picture of?

it looks like the memorial at normady.

**Jdawg50** · 03-18-2003, 02:50 PM

about 11,000 dead americans bros

**abstrack** · 03-18-2003, 03:10 PM

yeah, but it is not the french who have to worry so much about the terrorist blowing shit up on their front porch. Once that happens all the sudden guess who will want some support??? To compare this to any war is B.S. this war has it's own issues at hand and problems to deal with. The US does not need the french support or the support of germany, damm we can hadle it outselves but it is nice to know ho is on your side?? right??
Yeah the french might of helped with gaining our independence but we sure repayed that favor. Could you have imangined the nazi wacking off every body one by one as they were doing to the jews. Damm if it wasnt for the US and the Russians!

And the Japs did not bring no war to our door!! they thought they were being sneeky and getting away with shit but we sure put a stop to that real quick!!! same thing were doing now!! No more F'ing around and taking care of business that should have been done years ago

**Terinox** · 03-18-2003, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by BIG TEXAN
That is alot of lives lost all because some "f" sicko Nazi SOB, but don't forget all the French lives lost as well. So I must say good point but also not much of a good one all together. Where does it stop....unfortanetly no one knows. I'm sure if anyone looks close enough they'll find reason to invade every damn country there is. I just beleive in this act as of now and pray that this will be the end. Also in my eyes it won't end until we have Osama's head on a stick stuck in the ground outside the white house!

So true. It is a shame. Only problem is there will always be crazy fucks like the Nazi SOB, and Osama. Having his head on a stick would be great, but then there are tons of others, who will end up doing the same kind of thing (or attempting it). Tis be a shame

What a world, oh, what a world.

I think AR and all it's members need to move to Mars or some distant Alien planet. Where there is nothing but gyms, bars, gorgeous women, and endless endless shelves of cheap legal steroids . Oh...if only...

**palme** · 03-18-2003, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by abstrack
yeah, but it is not the french who have to worry so much about the terrorist blowing shit up on their front porch. Once that happens all the sudden guess who will want some support??? To compare this to any war is B.S. this war has it's own issues at hand and problems to deal with. The US does not need the french support or the support of germany, damm we can hadle it outselves but it is nice to know ho is on your side?? right??
Yeah the french might of helped with gaining our independence but we sure repayed that favor. Could you have imangined the nazi wacking off every body one by one as they were doing to the jews. Damm if it wasnt for the US and the Russians!

And the Japs did not bring no war to our door!! they thought they were being sneeky and getting away with shit but we sure put a stop to that real quick!!! same thing were doing now!! No more F'ing around and taking care of business that should have been done years ago

The French have problems with terrorism. Hint: Algeria.

For the record i wont get in a debate about this shit again.
War is coming and that is what we all want. And stop talking about getting new friends. Thats just a stupid comment.

**Jdawg50** · 03-18-2003, 03:21 PM

I'm done with this debate too, I just want to now say that I support our troops, and they are in my prayers

***BIG TEXAN*** · 03-18-2003, 03:22 PM

Originally posted by Terinox

So true. It is a shame. Only problem is there will always be crazy fucks like the Nazi SOB, and Osama. Having his head on a stick would be great, but then there are tons of others, who will end up doing the same kind of thing (or attempting it). Tis be a shame What a world, oh, what a world.

I think AR and all it's members need to move to Mars or some distant Alien planet. Where there is nothing but gyms, bars, gorgeous women, and endless endless shelves of cheap legal steroids. Oh...if only...

I'll vote for that!!!!

kc · 03-18-2003, 03:26 PM

ohhh lol..what a concept....i'll be the resident bartender

**Got Gear?** · 03-18-2003, 03:28 PM

Big-Texan: I'm not saying that Bush is some kind of Cowboy, I agree that something needs to be done about Saddam. The point I was making is that Bush gets into power and suddenly we have a war.

Daem: We must be reading different history books! The books I read say that basically the Allies were slowly winning the war. The US enters the war and speeds up the process by about 2 years. Either way, France put in more of a contribution than the US. Hell even Canada was in this war right from the beginning.

Lol... the US was waiting to see how far naziism was going to reach! I love it! It's the exact same thing the French are doing, cept the US is smart when they do it, but the French are unthankful cowards. It took a american tragedy for the US to help France. Why is it wrong if it happens the other way around?

Abstrack: I'm in awe of your post! Your logic makes absolutely no sence to me!!! First off, I was only compareing this to other wars in the aspect of allies helping. And pointed out that France has done alot more than the US. The americans killed 10,000 Nazis? The French killed 100,000. WWII was fought on their homeland and the French fought for 6 years? French women and children were killed.

Lol.. I love how you think the Japs didn't bring the war to your front door. That's the best part yet! I'm 100% sure that america would not have joined the war if it wasn't for the bombing of Pearl Harbor. Being sneaky? They bombed the shit out the US's largest military base. Sneeky my ass, that was a very well planned out and effective tactical strike. Not luck as you're trying to make it out like. The same thing that is going on now hey? HELLO? You do know the events that have led up to these 2 wars correct? Cause I see NOTHING similar!!!

**Terinox** · 03-18-2003, 03:43 PM

Isn't it true that the U.S. Millitary knew about the bombing of Pearl Harbor?

This is a rumor, but I also heard that they intercepted a message, which told them the day and the time. Also, that they didn't do anything on purpose because this was their excuse to not only enter WWII but to also do some heavy damage and test out their nukes for the first time.

**Butch** · 03-18-2003, 03:44 PM

Somebody correct me if I am wrong....but don't a lot of French live in Canada....becasue a lot of the fellas here that are supporting the French choice all seem to be post from Canada

**hybrid** · 03-18-2003, 03:48 PM

Fact. The French are the biggest exporter of goods to Iraq. Germany is the third biggest exporter of goods to Iraq. Funny that they are the two most vocal critics of the US policy toward Iraq.

***Cycleon*** · 03-18-2003, 03:50 PM

Originally posted by Terinox

Another problem however is where does it stop? I mean, once they finish with Iraq, is Iran next? They have no leads or proof of any terrorist support from Iran, but i'm SURE U.S. will find some excuse to go into Iran. Then who else? Saudi Arabia? Pakistan? The entire Middle East?

That is exactly the point we are about to make - it will be an object demonstration of overwhelming superiority - the lesson communicated will be If you dont get a handle on your fanatics, you will be next!

Lets get realistic - if you had a US based Aryan Brotherhood go bomb the Kabba (a very holy site for Muslims) - or bomb the french parliment building - the US gov would be all over it to make sure that those people were exterminated and it would be our responsibility.

The dragon was content to sleep as long as it was left alone but when are people going to learn that there is something different about the US? We are very patient and will overlook soooooo much - but when we get really pissed, someone is going to die. Dont be angy at the dragon, be angry at the people who woke it up - of course it will not go back to sleep now, because there are many who would try to sneek up and stab it in the heart if we give them a chance.

**Butch** · 03-18-2003, 03:59 PM

Originally posted by CYCLEON

That is exactly the point we are about to make - it will be an object demonstration of overwhelming superiority - the lesson communicated will be If you dont get a handle on your fanatics, you will be next!

Lets get realistic - if you had a US based Aryan Brotherhood go bomb the Kabba (a very holy site for Muslims) - or bomb the french parliment building - the US gov would be all over it to make sure that those people were exterminated and it would be our responsibility.

The dragon was content to sleep as long as it was left alone but when are people going to learn that there is something different about the US? We are very patient and will overlook soooooo much - but when we get really pissed, someone is going to die. Dont be angy at the dragon, be angry at the people who woke it up - of course it will not go back to sleep now, because there are many who would try to sneek up and stab it in the heart if we give them a chance.

Shit...now I know why they call you Super Mod

Hell of a point bro...

....

**Got Gear?** · 03-18-2003, 03:59 PM

Butch - True, but most english speaking Canadians have little love for their French speaking brothers (myself included). Just because they both speak French doesn't mean a whole lot BTW. No more of a relation than that between say the US and Australia.

Terinox - I doubt it! The americans didn't need an excuse to join the war, and they didn't need a special circumstance to use the big bombs. It was the atom bombs that effectively ended the war (Prompted the Japs to surrender). As I recall the Manhatten project wasn't born or was still in it's infancy during the attack on pearl harbor.

**Terinox** · 03-18-2003, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by CYCLEON

That is exactly the point we are about to make - it will be an object demonstration of overwhelming superiority - the lesson communicated will be If you dont get a handle on your fanatics, you will be next!

BUT WHOOOO are you talking to here? I see your point and all, but I mean who is that message directed at?

Are you telling THE GOVERNMENT that they have to be careful, and handle their fanatics? The problem IS the Government. Like I posted before, these problems go deep, and it is the entire regime that must be changed.

Are you telling THE PEOPLE/CITIZEN that they have to be careful, and handle their fanatics? The people have NO say in anything. They can't stand up for anyone, they can't defend anyone, they have absolutely no control. If they tried anything, the government would execute them.

So what I'm trying to say here is you say that "you" must be careful, but that "YOU" is VERY unclear. The terrorists and the hate of Americans and all that U.S. bashing COMES from the government. Tons of university students are constantly trying to start revolutions to overthrow the government but they are quickly shut up by the secret police. I know FOR A FACT there are TONS of underground organizations who are trying to change the country, but what the hell can a couple hundred or even thousand civilians do against an evil STUPID jackass who sits on his thrown jerking off all day?! My mother and sister, and many of my relatives were members of these underground organizations. They need MAJOR help from the outside to be able to change the country and make it a better place.

**Got Gear?** · 03-18-2003, 04:13 PM

Very good point Terinox!

Nice message... too bad it doesn't do anything. Saddam would ignore it and the people can't do anything about it. Lotsa innocent people dead for a message that's not going to do any good!

**xxxl83** · 03-18-2003, 06:41 PM

Got gear,

All that shit sounds good.
I won't even argue your points on whether they have any merit or not but, are you trying to tell me France and Germany are right in their actions?
Are you saying France and Germany have the worlds best intrest in mind and are going about it in a noble way?

You so conveniently point out what you consider to be the US's other intrest in a war that happened well over 50 years ago and say that the US was wrong then.
Well is it possible, even likely that France and Germany may have other agenda's for their reasoning and are wrong now?

Even with all that shit aside what do you think the US should do just sit by? You just blasted the US for doing that during WWII. So what should the US do the resolve the issue in your opinion?

xxxl83

**RON** · 03-18-2003, 08:14 PM

Originally posted by Terinox
Another problem however is where does it stop? I mean, once they finish with Iraq, is Iran next? They have no leads or proof of any terrorist support from Iran, but i'm SURE U.S. will find some excuse to go into Iran. Then who else? Saudi Arabia? Pakistan? The entire Middle East?

Hmmmmm? I hear that Canada is harboring a lot of Terrorist in Toronto area.

**Terinox** · 03-18-2003, 08:29 PM

Originally posted by RON

Hmmmmm? I hear that Canada is harboring a lot of Terrorist in Toronto area.

THAT IS A LIE...THAT...IS...A...LIE!!!

((((Terinox starts hiding all his weapons of mass destruction))))

A LIE I TELL YOU, A LIE!!!

***Cycleon*** · 03-18-2003, 09:03 PM

Originally posted by Terinox

BUT WHOOOO are you talking to here? I see your point and all, but I mean who is that message directed at?

Saudi gov
Paki Gov (altho they got the message very well - Mush is playing to make sure he stays top)
Iran Mullahs (probably our biggest hope is that democratic forces will be strengthened in Iran - maybe armed as well)
Syria gov
North Korean Gov
Libyan Gov

Whoever else you want to put on the list - this war is about putting the fear of Almighty God into anyone who would think about harming us - and making sure that no govenment permits its citizens to encourage violence against us - demonstrations, dissent, no problem - but violence, NO - enough is enough.

**Terinox** · 03-18-2003, 09:37 PM

Originally posted by CYCLEON

Saudi gov
Paki Gov (altho they got the message very well - Mush is playing to make sure he stays top)
Iran Mullahs (probably our biggest hope is that democratic forces will be strengthened in Iran - maybe armed as well)
Syria gov
North Korean Gov
Libyan Gov

Whoever else you want to put on the list - this war is about putting the fear of Almighty God into anyone who would think about harming us - and making sure that no govenment permits its citizens to encourage violence against us - demonstrations, dissent, no problem - but violence, NO - enough is enough.

Everyone you mentioned is the "government"

So your saying that government should be careful, but it IS the government causing these problems, and helping terrorists. So WHO should rule then? Like I said, power has to go to the people, the citizens, and what the majority want. Iranian Mullah's are the worst people yet! I don't understand WHY the damn RELIGION is controlling a country, this is very stupid!

You also keep saying US, and the United States, but the BIG picture should be to get rid of these evils for the GREATER good. U.S. shouldn't be only thinking about themselves. Although I know they don't have much support from other countries, they have to be the bigger people here, and not just say it's for themselves, but for the entire world as a whole.

I don't know what else to really say. Like I said before, all I wish is for the entire government to be overthrown, but it is VERY hard to do. And that is too bad. Well, what can you do. Right now, all we can do is wait and see what happens. Hopefully Saddam will come to his senses at the last minute (although very unlikely). And if U.S. ends up fighting, which is what they seem to want, then let's just pray minimal damage is done to the country, to it's people, and only the targetted people, and the evil government is taken care of

***Cycleon*** · 03-18-2003, 09:51 PM

Terinox - while national security is the paramount concern, I can assure you that the Bush administration (well, at least bush himself) is doing this because he wants to rid the world of evil - not just for the US but foro every one - "well why doesnt he do this, or that, or whatever my personal peeve is?" because there is only so much that can be done and priorities have to be established that fit within a strategic framework (ie. domino effect).

Notice that for all everyone else talks about ridding the world of evil - it is the US and the US alone who commits $$$ and people to get it done - yes, others donate and send food and aid - but no one wants to stand up to the criminals - does anyone think that Milosovitch would have gone anywhere except for the US? and Clinton, for all his faults, didnt ask anyone inthe UN about that, did he? - that saved untold Muslim lives.

**gixxerboy1** · 03-18-2003, 10:10 PM

All im going to say is i support or troops and hope they make it home safe.

The only downside to this as i see it. Is if there is another terrorist attack here big or small all these people who are against this war are going to blame bush. That act could have been planned out for years but everyone is oging to say it happened because we attacked Iraq.

**Pete235** · 03-19-2003, 06:39 AM

Originally posted by Butch
Somebody correct me if I am wrong....but don't a lot of French live in Canada....becasue a lot of the fellas here that are supporting the French choice all seem to be post from Canada

Butch, I will correct you bro. Actually very few fench live in Canada...probably less than live in the US. However, we do have a substantial citizenship who speak french as a primary language, but they are Canadian born and bread and have absolutly nothing to do with France or French foriegn policy. In this instance the word "french" refers only to the language spoken.

That being said, even though I am liberal I support what is about to take place. I believe that this action will help the Bush administration but I don't think this is the catalyst for the undertaking. I hope it is a tactical, surgical strike that makes short work of the tyranists and I hope it is o ver quickly.

**N8O** · 03-19-2003, 06:48 AM

I would like to say that i agree with the most you but IMO bush and the majority of the US population is full of shit. I say this because their all on this stop terrorism and chemical weapons buzz which is a good idea but you've really gotta wake up and looka t what this wars all about. OIL. The stupidest shit i've heard in my life would have to be when i hear some resteraunt owners have in the US changing the names of some foods to make a STAND against the french when they veto. thats just one example of how stupid half the american population is thinking at the moment. it's fucken stupid. i'm getting sick of bush and all his bullshit about fucken bio-weapons and how noone should eb allowed them when America has one of the biggest armorments of them. all i gotta say now which i'm trying not to write to much but i'm sick of fucken patriatism theres a point and the American people take it way to far.

**Strut99GT** · 03-19-2003, 08:06 AM

The fact is that the public doesn't know what people in power know, period. I trust that the US government is making the right choice based on the information they have.

***BIG TEXAN*** · 03-19-2003, 09:04 AM

Got Gear?- Actually I do believe it doesn't matter who was in office right now, we'd still be going to war......well except Clinton.....he'd be getting head from someone. LOL Liberals.....don't attack me on this, I am a firm democrat more or less, but c'mon Clinton was a joke. Guy's if I seem a bit testy right now, it's just because my brothers in arms are fixing to go off in battle and me being a soldier very strongly wants to be there with them, and instead can only stand by and watch them march off without me. Something I believe in now (especially since being there) soldiers don't fight for freedom, or for some great cause, they fight for each other......so as to bring all their brothers home.

kc · 03-19-2003, 09:12 AM

Good point tex...I learned something new last night...I'm not a TV watcher and thus learn most of what i know from papers and radio...last night, watchin the news...they talked to a bunch of soldiers who are moving toward the borders...Anybody ever read "The things they carry"...a book about what soldiers carry into battle that aren't assigned to them...bibles, books, pictures, medals..etc. They were showing us what they carry...teddy bears, pictures etc. I pretty much had one new thought...Who gives a fuck about whether or not we should be there..we ARE..these people are there, eating dust and missing their familys...whether in 30 years we'll regret it isn't part of the deal...it's now, it's happening, they are ready to fight and ready to die...for what? i'm not quite sure but it's the truth, those are the facts...my town has a weekly "rally" to protest war..all I could think of was that our bros and sis's are overthere and there are people here who dont support them...dammit, that pisses me off more than anything!

***Cycleon*** · 03-19-2003, 09:15 AM

Originally posted by N8O
I would like to say that i agree with the most you but IMO bush and the majority of the US population is full of shit. I say this because their all on this stop terrorism and chemical weapons buzz which is a good idea but you've really gotta wake up and looka t what this wars all about. OIL. The stupidest shit i've heard in my life would have to be when i hear some resteraunt owners have in the US changing the names of some foods to make a STAND against the french when they veto. thats just one example of how stupid half the american population is thinking at the moment. it's fucken stupid. i'm getting sick of bush and all his bullshit about fucken bio-weapons and how noone should eb allowed them when America has one of the biggest armorments of them. all i gotta say now which i'm trying not to write to much but i'm sick of fucken patriatism theres a point and the American people take it way to far.

Ultimately - the war is NOT about oil - its about power - unilateral power that we are about to demonstrate is unanswerable by anyone else - and thats why the Russians, French, germans are against it - but we are also hopefully demonstrating to all would be enemies of the US and our allies that "resistance is futile" - and that could save both $$$ and lives in the long term, if it is presumed that we are fully willing and capable of using force to get "you" wherever you are if you harm us.

**Rickson** · 03-19-2003, 09:46 AM

The veto the French, Germans, and Russians are using is about oil. I hope none of you are naive enough to think they care about peace. It is their Multibillion dollar ties to Iraq and its oil that is what makes them want to stop this war. Just like in 1997 when France proposed that all sanctions and UN inspections stop in Iraq because Saddam had fully disarmed. The same reason France sold Iraq their first two Nuclear plants. Everyone has an agenda and ours is no worse then the rest of the worlds.