Religion and Steroid use

[BigMike J]

you have to ask him - to make sure EVERYTHING he gets is from the Bible - and can give you chapter and verse - DO NOT LET SOME CONTROL FREAK PASTOR MIND WASH HIM - there are MANY good ones but there are a number of bad who are wolves among sheep....

Simply ask him to show you what the church says in the word - tell him you are interested but not in what men say - I mean, since they are basing a whole religion on a book, surely it is a good thing to read it and prove any doctrine or rules from it - not just people making them up - so ask him to show you what they believe in the Bible - tell him you do not want some pastors word for it but rather for him to show you - if the principle isnt in there, then it isnt from God - and that is all too often with chalatins pretending to be God's annointed - but again there are many who are and these will be delighted to back up anything they say.

CYCLEON- I have read the bible in my attempt to find god, but i obviously failed. As for him giving me a chapter and a verse, i don't think he knows any yet. Im not sure if this preacher is trying to brain wash my bro, but he has been letting him get up on the podium to preach to the entire church. To me it seems weird to have a person who does not really know about the bible to preach on about god. What kind of church is this

That is a good idea about asking him about what the church says in the word, but i think i know what his response would be. "I do not have to prove anything to you only to god" Ok that's fine

I guess im more of a proof before belief person and it is this that is starting to build a ridge between us. Me and my bro usta be pretty damn close. It's a fucking shame that it has to be like this, but what can i do.

It's funny sorta sad how a seemingly innocent topic such as religion or theology can cause such problems, but i guess it not just religion alone which does it. You get two people together who have opposite beliefs one a theologist and the other and evolutionist and POW!! You got yourself one hell of and argument.

Another thing. In school there's been some debate about allowing prayer. Prayer is usually associated with god, and the belief in god, but how come in my psych class evolution is taught. Not taught so much in great detail, but the topic is still there. This world is fucked up.


Sorry fellas im just blowing off some steam

Peace out

[BigMike J]

[QUOTE=Tock]

you have to ask him - to make sure EVERYTHING he gets is from the Bible - and can give you chapter and verse - DO NOT LET SOME CONTROL FREAK PASTOR MIND WASH HIM - there are MANY good ones but there are a number of bad who are wolves among sheep....
QUOTE]
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Y'know, I really prefer to hash out this sort of controversy over a friendly plate of steak & eggs . . . it's a lot easier to get to the crux of the issue in person, IMHO. But, we do the best we can on AR with words . . .


Yes, as Cycleon intimated, I've been disappointed in the Bible and the church. But not God, really; IMHO, there might be a god, there might be a whole slew of them, I really don't know. I don't really care what other folks opinions are on the subject, so long as their opinions don't lead them to mess around with the life I want to lead.

But even though I'm somewhat questioning about the existance of a god, I can say that I have checked out the Christian Bible, and I can confidently say that it cannot be "the perfect, inerrant, communication from the creator of the universe to us weasals here on earth" because it's full of impossibilities, contradictions, failed prophecies, false stories (Moses, for one), and advocates shit like slavery, women as 2nd class citizens, capital punishment for sabbath breaking & etc.
Aw, crap . . . I know I'm not about to change anyone's mind about this; people will beleive what they want to beleive for as long as it suits 'em. But for the folks reading this who haven't been ensnared in the tentacles of a church or cult, all I can say is, verify whatever they tell you. If they can't prove that Krishna or Budda or Quetzecoatl or whoever rose from the dead, you really have no obligation to accept the claim as true. There are lots of crazy organizations out there eager to make new drones to generate more $$$, and they'll tell ya whatever you want to hear.
. . . All I can say is, save yourselves a lot of grief and hassle, and make cults and churches prove their claims, then take that "proof" to other experts in related fields, and see how it checks out. When they tell you something like Noah's Ark had two of every animal, check it out. Figure out
(1) how big was Noah's Ark? (about 2 1/2 acres of deck space)
(2) how many animals were on board? (2 of the "clean" animals and 7 of the "unclean;" there are something like 20,000 species of mammals alone, so that would make at least 40,000 animals, along with thousands of reptiles, birds, and some say dinosaurs, too, all squeezed into 2.5 acres)
(3) how long were all the animals shut up in the ark? (14 months)
(4) how much food and fresh water did they have to take along to feed those thousands of animals for 14 months? (you figure that out)
(5) if the Ark landed in the Middle East, how did the Kangaroos get to Australia (they don't swim)?
(6) Is this story a work of fiction, or is it actually true?

Whether or not I have or don't have a personal antipathy for the Bible is beside the point . . . whether or not the Bible is or is not the message of the universe's creator is. From what I've seen (I used to teach sunday school and bible study, almost became a preacher), it is a bunch of crap, and I hate to see people waste their lives trying to use it as something to pattern their lives after.
It's just a bunch of crap.
Other folks are more than welcome to disagree, but when they tell me there's something "wrong" with me 'cause I'm a "sinner," watch out 'cause those are fightin' words, as far as I'm concerned. There ain't nothin' in the bible that I have any obligation to comply with; I can (and do) break the 10 Commandments with astonishing regularity (and with a clear conscience), and need moral guidance from it as much as I need moral guidance from the Koran, L.Ron Hubbard's "Dianetics," Mary Baker Eddy's "Christian Science" crap, or from any of the loathsome moral derelicts masquarding as "God's Messengers" on Sunday Morning TV.

Good thing I'm toning this down, eh?

To sum this all up . . .
Yes, your bro has the right to pursue whatever bs someone offers him, and yes, it would be unethical if you tried to "deprogram" him because everyone has the right to beleive what they want to beleive. On the other hand, you can still challenge his beleifs; probe his opinions and point out the inconsistancies, then ask why he still beleives in stuff that makes no sense. The usual response is "I don't know, I just do," so prepare yourself for that.
But that's about it . . . I hope your bro comes back to his senses, maybe when they start asking for $$$ he will . . .
Good luck, though . . .
--Tock

Tock- Great post,well i think so anyway. I guess i like it because it imitates some of what believe, like when you say,

But not God, really; IMHO, there might be a god, there might be a whole slew of them, I really don't know. I don't really care what other folks opinions are on the subject, so long as their opinions don't lead them to mess around with the life I want to lead.

That is exactly how i feel, but might is never enough for me. I just hope i have this figured out before i die and can be comfortable with my belief, because right now i am not. Did we evolve from monkeys? I don't know, but scientific evidence suggests that we did. So what am i inclined to believe in, science or bible? Well before i can truely believe in the bible i must have divine proof.

I hope this post does not make anybody mad. It was not my intent to get into a all out debate about god. As long as there are not harsh words on this thread i guess it's ok.

Peace out

[Cycleon]

BTW: I am a Christian and I do believe in evolution as well - I do not believe in humanism that people would like to shove in there with it - but I certainly believe that God created everything that is - doesnt mean that it just went poof and was - the Genesis eve and morning can refer to a solar day, a distinct period or a begining and end or an indefinite period - it would better read beginning and end.

Just as things I pray for - one time I was in bad need of some cash but didnt want to tell anyone but I prayed for some help - suddenly an old buddy called me out of the blue and said he wanted to repay a favor I had done for him who knows how long ago and he gave me $400. That is obviously God working but notice that He didnt just make 4 $100 bills just appear in my pocket - he uses the world that He has made but influences it and us without overcomming our free will - which for some reason He has made to be VERY important.

As to your brother - THE ONLY THING that will negate any negative influence of people who may have the wrong motives is the Word - let him see for himself - and as for proving something simply ask "if you truly believe this, how can you deny me the opportunity to understand it as well? but:
"PROVE all things; hold fast that which is good"
"Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."
"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."

Anyone who keeps people from finding it for themselves in the bible is not from God - thats what pastors are supposed to do - lead us to the Word - if he has any questions, have him email me - I dont think the juicing thing is really that important but the relationship between you is and that is what I think I can address if I speak with him.

[FrkyBgStok]

i see AS use as not a religious issue but a moral issue. I am a christian and read my bible, however i do not go to church. I feel the churches need to get things right. They are too self righteous to realize we are all worshipping the same God. Do i think i am not going to heaven because of not going to church? No, nor do i think AS will keep my out of heaven. i agree with a few bros on here saying its his choice and he can follow his heart, but i will tell you this. i "fell" into the bible thumper category where i wouldn't do anything anyone would consider bad, and i will say this took years out of my life. i was doing things everyone else wanted. If your bro decides to not do them and take this path, support him, but make sure it makes HIM happy. I now know what i believe and am solid in my faith, but i don't consider myself a radical. AS is part of my life as well as drinking and other things, but i morally i do not feel it is a hinder to me. Maybe all this is rambling and no one gives a shit, and if so i am sorry.

[Tock]

i see AS use as not a religious issue but a moral issue.

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I see AS use as a Health issue only.
Most politicians don't know squat about medicine, neither do moralists; the folks who know (or should know) the most about AS use and biology are the docs, and anyone (over 21) who chooses to use 'em ought to be able to get no-hassle medical access while doing so, so that the side-effects (from mis-use and poor quality) can be minimized.

I dunno, is this a liberal, conservative, or just common sense philosophy?

--Tock

[PTbyJason]

I saw from some recent interviews that Flex Wheeler stopped gear use due to religious beliefs. I would love to see what he had to say about this thread.

[BIG TEXAN]

I'd pay money to hear what he thinks about this.

[jersey juice]

All I'm saying is Hitler thought he was doing god's work and let's not forget the christian crusades when those who didn't believe or convert were slaughtered. The KKK uses the bible to justify themselves and so did some serial killers like Henry Lee Lucas. There is no right answer to this question and I am Protestant by the way.