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  1. #1
    Kärnfysikern's Avatar
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    China goes to space

    http://edition.cnn.com/2003/TECH/spa...nch/index.html

    like I mentioned in the thread about mars some weeks ago. China has completed the first step of their space program. I hope they will be on the moon soon

    Go china!!

  2. #2
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    Feels wierd they are only the third country to go up there, you would think countrys like England, France, Japan and Germany had enough money to have a decent space program.

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    Quote Originally Posted by palme
    Feels wierd they are only the third country to go up there, you would think countrys like England, France, Japan and Germany had enough money to have a decent space program.
    We spend all the money for everyone else,why should they go.We did all the hard work already

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    Well, in a way i feel good for china getting up there but in another way I feel ticked off cause there butting into what Russia And the US has already accomplished. Great for there country but they could have used that money for something better. Really The world should Come together for space projects so we can excell the human race to bigger and better things. Not just individual countries working on there own and wasting time/$$ for things already accomplished. Just My opinon.

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    i just hope they share any technology information they obtain. seems like usa and russia could use all they help they can get regarding space exploration. plus, like da bull said, it would be nice to share the expense!

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    China is to be feared and closely watched by the United States. China is not an ally to this country. They are ever expanding their military, and trying to steal our technology. I was troubled when I heard of China's venture into space. This China has been our enemy for over 50 years. When the U.S. fought North Korea in the 1950's, China sent in a MILLION troops to help kill Americans. The United States killed Chinese soldiers by the tens of thousands. The Chinese have a long memeory and are not very forgiving. They would still love to destroy Japan, for the horrors it inflicted upon China during WWII. Since the U.S, is the only superpower left in the world, China's desire to become more powerful, militarily, and economically, is because they see us as a threat to their future. So we must see them for what they are. They may not be an immeadiate enemy, but perhaps a serious enemy in 15-20 years.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    http://edition.cnn.com/2003/TECH/spa...nch/index.html

    like I mentioned in the thread about mars some weeks ago. China has completed the first step of their space program. I hope they will be on the moon soon

    Go china!!

    Yah, what with all the people they have, they'll need someplace to put 'em all . . .
    --Tock

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by punk_bbuilder
    Well, in a way i feel good for china getting up there but in another way I feel ticked off cause there butting into what Russia And the US has already accomplished. Great for there country but they could have used that money for something better. Really The world should Come together for space projects so we can excell the human race to bigger and better things. Not just individual countries working on there own and wasting time/$$ for things already accomplished. Just My opinon.
    Here, here bro!

    I worry that china will be reluctant to cooperate with the US and Russia on projects such as the International Space Station. They seem so wound up keeping everything they do a secret.

    Nixter.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nixter
    Here, here bro!

    I worry that china will be reluctant to cooperate with the US and Russia on projects such as the International Space Station. They seem so wound up keeping everything they do a secret.

    Nixter.
    No shit...it's like they are behind everyone else by 30 years...cold war type of mentallity.

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    I agree with most of the posts here. China could have done something better with their money, like take care of the billion or so people they have. Or maybe join the international community and build a module for the space station. I would think that would be something for the Chinese people to be proud of. If I were chinese, I would just be thinking "Wow, finally we can do something that the US and USSR did 50 years ago. "

    But if they had built another lab module for the ISS, they would be helping move space science forward... and have a permanent fixture in space. But instead, they want to go to the moon.... OK, whatever. I think it's time to rethink our Most Favored Nation status again.

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    Fuck em.....let them fork out billions and billions of dollars for space exploration......

  12. #12
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    They have a reason for space and it isnt exploration. If they want information on space they can get it from NASA. There is nothing up there that they need except maybe to map out Earths orbit. Their only interest in a space program is to have an excuse to keep going in space. The reason for this is to set up their satelites for future military purposes. Its only the beginning of their fucked up little plan.
    They are such a paranoid country it is scary.
    All that money spent on a fucking rocket when they could help out with their poverty and hunger.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bermich
    They have a reason for space and it isnt exploration. If they want information on space they can get it from NASA. There is nothing up there that they need except maybe to map out Earths orbit. Their only interest in a space program is to have an excuse to keep going in space. The reason for this is to set up their satelites for future military purposes. Its only the beginning of their fucked up little plan.
    They are such a paranoid country it is scary.
    All that money spent on a fucking rocket when they could help out with their poverty and hunger.
    totally agreed. China = bad news.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisAdams
    totally agreed. China = bad news.
    I dont se what is so bad about china trying to become a real superpower. As long as they dont start a war. You americans cant expect to be the king of the block for eternity. Both the EU and China is going to become just as big and powerfull with time.
    offcourse whenever there is several superpowers it seems to lead to war. atleast it did with ww1 and ww2.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bermich
    They have a reason for space and it isnt exploration. If they want information on space they can get it from NASA. There is nothing up there that they need except maybe to map out Earths orbit. Their only interest in a space program is to have an excuse to keep going in space. The reason for this is to set up their satelites for future military purposes. Its only the beginning of their fucked up little plan.
    They are such a paranoid country it is scary.
    All that money spent on a fucking rocket when they could help out with their poverty and hunger.
    Every country spends shitloads of money on crappy things. The states could have spent all the cash on iraq on education and to handle the poverty and crime over there. Russia could stop the messing around in tjetjenia(sp?) and spend more on their poverty and crime ect.
    I think it is exciting that china is doing this and I hope it will spark a interest for space again in the states and in europe. Nasa and ESA can sure need some more funding The way I se it it is the best spent money for a long time by a big country.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    Every country spends shitloads of money on crappy things. The states could have spent all the cash on iraq on education and to handle the poverty and crime over there.
    It's relative bro...the unemployment, poverty, etc here in the states isn't even comparable to China. You are kind of comparing apples and oranges.

    Regarding superpowers...it's not cool when you have a superpower that is ruled by a dictator and a fucked up way of looking at life in general. Europe is one of US's best allies...them becoming a superpower wouldn't be that big of a deal.

    Have you noticed that since the US is the only superpower left there hasn't been any more World Wars? Other countries have tried now several times to get rid of the US...they got f'd up over it too. Ask Japan about that one!

    peace,

    ttgb

  17. #17
    Kärnfysikern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tryingtogetbig
    It's relative bro...the unemployment, poverty, etc here in the states isn't even comparable to China. You are kind of comparing apples and oranges.

    Regarding superpowers...it's not cool when you have a superpower that is ruled by a dictator and a fucked up way of looking at life in general. Europe is one of US's best allies...them becoming a superpower wouldn't be that big of a deal.

    Have you noticed that since the US is the only superpower left there hasn't been any more World Wars? Other countries have tried now several times to get rid of the US...they got f'd up over it too. Ask Japan about that one!

    peace,

    ttgb
    No but then on the other hand in china the people(atleast on the country side) can survive with way less money then ordinary people in the states.
    But in my oppinion a country is better off in the long run to pump money into technology then into helping the poor. Might sound crule but thats my oppinion...

    well usa hasnt been the only super power for so long and from the looks if it the world is heading straight into a new massive war.

  18. #18
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    I also like the fact that china is probably crasy enough to go through with their plans. I mean if they started building a moon base in a decade or two then the rest of the world would have to start investing in space so china doesnt get a big head start.

  19. #19
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    Johan: I like your enthusiasm for space and China. I wish I could get excited about things like that and I hope it doesnt go away for you.

    I like arguing with you about politics though

    Spending money on education and such. If we didnt spend the all the money in IRAQ, it just would have been blown on something else other than education.

    I dont know why you would want China to be a super power. Russia used to be the States big bullie. Russia scared the fuck out of the world 25 years ago. Global domination was their goal and without the US, the world would be speaking Russian. China is the same way, only worse.

    A new massive war? I DOUBT it. It isnt how it was in the 30s. Countries are more mature and have direct communications with each other now.
    There are also treaties signed saying countries such as Germany and Japan cant build up a military force. Those treaties signed because they lost WWI and WWII.

    The only massive war in the future will be bio terrorism.
    No more invading tanks, and troop assualts. The next FIRST attack is gonna be some rocket (one like CHINA) plowing into some densely populated area with deadly nerve agents.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    I also like the fact that china is probably crasy enough to go through with their plans. I mean if they started building a moon base in a decade or two then the rest of the world would have to start investing in space so china doesnt get a big head start.

    You know what...I'm not going to argue with you about the quality of life in the USA...we have more immigrants than any place in the world...or China.

    China sent a spacecraft into orbit 14 times around the earth...if this was 1965 then that would be of some kind of significance. China as a country is a worthless in my book. They'll have a revolution before they even get close to becoming a superpower.

    Whehoo...China sent a spacecraft into orbit...WOW! Now they will be competing with the USA for technology!!! Right...

    peace,

    ttgb

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by tryingtogetbig
    You know what...I'm not going to argue with you about the quality of life in the USA...we have more immigrants than any place in the world...or China.

    China sent a spacecraft into orbit 14 times around the earth...if this was 1965 then that would be of some kind of significance. China as a country is a worthless in my book. They'll have a revolution before they even get close to becoming a superpower.

    Whehoo...China sent a spacecraft into orbit...WOW! Now they will be competing with the USA for technology!!! Right...

    peace,

    ttgb
    exactly

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bermich
    Johan: I like your enthusiasm for space and China. I wish I could get excited about things like that and I hope it doesnt go away for you.

    I like arguing with you about politics though

    Spending money on education and such. If we didnt spend the all the money in IRAQ, it just would have been blown on something else other than education.

    I dont know why you would want China to be a super power. Russia used to be the States big bullie. Russia scared the fuck out of the world 25 years ago. Global domination was their goal and without the US, the world would be speaking Russian. China is the same way, only worse.

    A new massive war? I DOUBT it. It isnt how it was in the 30s. Countries are more mature and have direct communications with each other now.
    There are also treaties signed saying countries such as Germany and Japan cant build up a military force. Those treaties signed because they lost WWI and WWII.

    The only massive war in the future will be bio terrorism.
    No more invading tanks, and troop assualts. The next FIRST attack is gonna be some rocket (one like CHINA) plowing into some densely populated area with deadly nerve agents.
    LoL I love arguing about politics to. I know very little about it, but still have very strong almost fanatical oppinions. Some people would call me a nazi but that is far from the thruth.

    I dont necersarely(sp?) want china as a superpower, but I want to se more superpowers because usa is becoming way to arrogant. To be honest your goverment doesnt give a shit about what the world thinks and you wont be able to keep that upp before the rest of the world make a strong stand against it. That I think is going to turn realy uggly. I think the whole middle east situation is going to cause it because usa will ALWAYS suport israel no matter what.
    I aggre with the whole super weapons thing. I hope to god that if a new big war breaks out everyone will be to scared to use nukes and other wmd's or atleast limit it to the battle fields.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by tryingtogetbig
    You know what...I'm not going to argue with you about the quality of life in the USA...we have more immigrants than any place in the world...or China.

    China sent a spacecraft into orbit 14 times around the earth...if this was 1965 then that would be of some kind of significance. China as a country is a worthless in my book. They'll have a revolution before they even get close to becoming a superpower.

    Whehoo...China sent a spacecraft into orbit...WOW! Now they will be competing with the USA for technology!!! Right...

    peace,

    ttgb
    Think of it purely scientificly, dont consider all the politics and other crap that always fucks upp for science.

    Doesnt it make you a little excited that finaly a country is putting in major resurses and energy into exploring space? For most countrys space isnt a priority anymore. People have lost interest in it and now all people care about is watching mindless massproduces garbage on the tv. Space isnt funded because people dont care about it anymore.
    Nothing exciting has happened after the lunar missions, except the international space station. Now esa and nasa has a competitior. Sure china is far behind now but they have the drive to get to the top....
    Last edited by Kärnfysikern; 10-16-2003 at 12:04 PM.

  24. #24
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    The idea that The EU will one day rival the US is laughable at best. How do you figure this will happen?. Do you really believe that all the nations of europe will come togther for a common good?. Please, give me a break. Europeans have had THOUSANDS of years to come together for a common good, and never came close. The only time Europeans ever came together as one, was when they were under the domination of the Roman Empire. There are too many vendettas and age long rivalries and fueds, for Europe to ever come together. I think Europe still has not accepted the fact, that they are not what they once were, and they still kling to this notion that they have the abilty to exert influence upon the world. All that bullshit with the UN security counsel proved that. Fucking France, and Germany are going to tell us, that we need there permission to defend ourselves. Hell if it was not for The United States these two piece of shit countries would not exist. France would now be part of greater "Germania", and Germany would be ruled by a Genocidal madman, bent on world domination. All of europe owes it's existance and survival to the US. We resuced you twice in the same century. So don't tell me that American's had better not expect to "be king of the block for eternity". You better hope we do, because if we don't who's gonna come save you, when the next big bad wolf comes around. Certainly not any of your European 'brethern", and you can bet your ass china doesn't give a fuck about you.

  25. #25
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    I will add this though, England has always been grateful, and has always been a true friend and ally to the U.S.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    LoL I love arguing about politics to. I know very little about it, but still have very strong almost fanatical oppinions. Some people would call me a nazi but that is far from the thruth.

    I dont necersarely(sp?) want china as a superpower, but I want to se more superpowers because usa is becoming way to arrogant. To be honest your goverment doesnt give a shit about what the world thinks and you wont be able to keep that upp before the rest of the world make a strong stand against it. That I think is going to turn realy uggly. I think the whole middle east situation is going to cause it because usa will ALWAYS suport israel no matter what.
    I aggre with the whole super weapons thing. I hope to god that if a new big war breaks out everyone will be to scared to use nukes and other wmd's or atleast limit it to the battle fields.

    There used to be five super powers. England is still pretty formadable amongst other countries.
    How the world feels about the US? Jealous. Thats all it is.
    To be honest with you, the US doesnt need the UN anymore. It has absolutely no power without the US. Without the US, there is no UN.
    Why not hate France for backing Saddam? Why hate america for trying to help out another country? So what if we get the oil. Look who was getting it before.
    We will make better use of the oil than Saddam. At least we are more righteous with our power. Helping build schools and hospitals in IRAQ.....

    I say we invade Syria next. Plenty of hot sandy deserts for us to choose from.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by bermich
    There used to be five super powers. England is still pretty formadable amongst other countries.
    How the world feels about the US? Jealous. Thats all it is.
    To be honest with you, the US doesnt need the UN anymore. It has absolutely no power without the US. Without the US, there is no UN.
    Why not hate France for backing Saddam? Why hate america for trying to help out another country? So what if we get the oil. Look who was getting it before.
    We will make better use of the oil than Saddam. At least we are more righteous with our power. Helping build schools and hospitals in IRAQ.....

    I say we invade Syria next. Plenty of hot sandy deserts for us to choose from.
    No you got me all wrong, I acctualy did support the war from the begining. I dont hate any country and the states is better then most.
    But now its just becoming so phateticly clear that there was no real reason for the war. No wmd's no nothing.
    You guys go to war for Israel and that disturbs me alot. Religious fanatics controls the states that simple.
    Read this
    http://www.voxfux.com/features/stran...an_fiction.htm
    Sure its long as fuck but very interesting.
    I dont belive that just because of that article but because it seems obvious.

    Right now usa is a decent place. In 20 year its going to be a corrupted policestate with a lasy, fat population that doesnt care about anything except stuffing themself with burgers and I dont want to se a superpower like that!! Unfortunaly Europe is heading down the same shitty road.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDoe1234
    The idea that The EU will one day rival the US is laughable at best. How do you figure this will happen?. Do you really believe that all the nations of europe will come togther for a common good?. Please, give me a break. Europeans have had THOUSANDS of years to come together for a common good, and never came close. The only time Europeans ever came together as one, was when they were under the domination of the Roman Empire. There are too many vendettas and age long rivalries and fueds, for Europe to ever come together. I think Europe still has not accepted the fact, that they are not what they once were, and they still kling to this notion that they have the abilty to exert influence upon the world. All that bullshit with the UN security counsel proved that. Fucking France, and Germany are going to tell us, that we need there permission to defend ourselves. Hell if it was not for The United States these two piece of shit countries would not exist. France would now be part of greater "Germania", and Germany would be ruled by a Genocidal madman, bent on world domination. All of europe owes it's existance and survival to the US. We resuced you twice in the same century. So don't tell me that American's had better not expect to "be king of the block for eternity". You better hope we do, because if we don't who's gonna come save you, when the next big bad wolf comes around. Certainly not any of your European 'brethern", and you can bet your ass china doesn't give a fuck about you.
    I think europe had been a much better place if Hitler would have won the war and united europe. His mad rascist oppinions would have faded away with time because people cant be feed with bullshit like that for to long. What would have been left is a grand powerfull united europe. Not the socialist shit it is today.

    Permission to defend yourself? When was ever iraq a threat to you Have you guys found the wmd's yet
    IF you want to get rid of a threat then go after north korea. But hey that would acctualy be a fight and Israel wouldnt gain shit from that.

    Also EU is growing and is becoming more united as we speek.
    Without europe there would be no united states. without france you would still be part of the UK. We are not speaking history here! Hell the states should belong to the nordic countries because the vikings found it first!
    Its you americans that always thinks we should be gratefull for beeing "rescued". I mean hell france was semi nazi and many french fought AGAINST the allies during ww2. Did they want to be rescued??

    But everything is black and white right? The nazis was the boogie man and the usa was the knight in shining armor that steped in and saved the day when everyone else had done most of the work. Without russia europe would have been hitlers without a doubt. We europeans should be gratefull to russia for the huge sacrifices they suffered during the war.

    Germany didnt want ww2 and they just reclaimed land that belonged to them. Many of the countries wanted to be a part of germany again. They did the same damn thing that sovjet did. But nobody protested agains sovjet grabbing land, but when nazi germany did it there was a huge outcry.

  29. #29
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    oh brother...everybody wants to talk bad about how bad the states are...until they get into trouble...then who do they call.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by tryingtogetbig
    oh brother...everybody wants to talk bad about how bad the states are...until they get into trouble...then who do they call.
    I can never remember a time when sweden asked USA for help.
    Anyway Im not badmouthing the states alone. Im saying the whole western world is going down the drain and because the states is the leader then its most obvious there and Im saying a country should never get so arrogant that they just think other countries achivements is nothing.

    Im praising china for improving their technology and Im disapointed with the attitude of the whole western world.

    This thread took a bad turn and I never wanted it to turn political. But I love debating it to much

    Lets get it back to china and space. What do you guys think would be the worlds reaction if china manages to be the first to build a moon base??

  31. #31
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    HURRAY. CHINA MADE IT INTO SPACE.!!!!!!
    That is so awesome.
    Im glad someone is taking an interest in space again after the US landed a man on the moon 30 years ago.
    Maybe China will try to map mars and find a geographical phenominan that our probes have missed.

    Maybe China will find evidence of Earth DNA proving that we once lived on Mars before it became uninhabbitibal.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDoe1234
    I will add this though, England has always been grateful, and has always been a true friend and ally to the U.S.
    Nah, that whole Boston Tea Party and Revolutionary War thing that followed was great!

    On a serious note, it is true that the UK has been there shoulder to shoulder with us since we kicked them out.

    On the issue with Germany and France vs. Iraq.... I think every country has the right to not agree with our foreign policy, and the right not to commit troops. However, they should then not get much of a say in what happens in post-war Iraq. Germany has been a really good ally ever since WWII, and still is today on almost all of our issues except Iraq. I have worked with the German military on more than one occasion, and they are great guys to be around, and would have our back if the time came. I don't consider our pissing contest with Saddam to be one of those moments. I would consider Afghanistan to be one of them, and Germany was there for us.

    France, on the other hand, is just pissed we took away their cheap Iraq oil. They'll get over it eventually. Besides President Chirac admitted he "Still likes a Bud!"

    The EU is growing, and something to remember is that superpowers these days are more about economic might than military... and the EU economy is going to be a powerhouse. That's not a problem in my mind, these are stable democrocies (well, maybe Italy is a little shaky) with good economies for the most part that share the bulk of our values. This only increases trade and competition, which in the end means better products at a cheaper price.

    On the other hand, we have China, who shrouds everything in secrecy, has draconian rule over its people, and is always dropping subtle hints on how much better the world would be if everyone spoke chinese. They have over a billion people to send into a gunfight, and they are a declared nuclear power. Now they just put a human in space, using a space program that is controlled by the military. This reeks of trouble.

    North Korea is a complete disaster domestically, but insists on perfecting long range nuclear-capable ballistic missles that can now reach the US west coast directly. Unfortunately this will continue because military weaponry is their number one export. Also bad because they will sell it to anyone. Even worse that Kim Jong Il has a serious weed up his ass. Makes you wonder why Washington never really did anything about that nuclear reactor in Yongbyong? Maybe because we don't want another war on the korean peninsula. Hell, I am a reservist in the Navy and I sure as hell don't want one there. I have been to korea. What a s***hole. But they give us cheap cell phones and we have treaties and troops to protect them.

    As far as the whole Israel thing, yeah, the US has close ties to Isreal. We also have treaties that say we will protect them. The US likes to uphold those treaties (most of the time). I am not too worried about Israel in the long run. Something tells me they also have a few US provided nukes to use if the time comes. Sometimes I wonder if that whole region would be better off as a big sheet of radioactive glass. Let's see how many people are willing to put on radiation suits to go to Bethlehem or Jerusalem then. But, I think the world really overstates our position on Israel.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by tryingtogetbig
    They'll have a revolution before they even get close to becoming a superpower.

    Whehoo...China sent a spacecraft into orbit...WOW! Now they will be competing with the USA for technology!!! Right...
    Er bro, have you taken a look at China in the last 20 years? 1/3 of the planets population lives there!

    "Becoming a superpower"? China has enough nukes to turn this planet to nuclear ashes many times over, and enough military personnel to keep coming at us looong after the last north american is dead... don't kid yourself, our governments are scared shitless of China for a reason.

    "competing with the USA for technology"? Walk into a Walmart or a Circuit City and find me something that wasn't made in China... yeah good luck! Besides they don't compete... they just steal whatever they want, and have proven quite often that they definetly have the technology and brains to reverse-engineer just about anything. Nowadays they don't even need to do that shit, tons of American, Japanese and European companies sub-contract work to Chinese cheap labour.

    Have a look at the US (and or EU) vs China trade balance, it's a rather one way street with LOTS of our money going into China to purchase their cheap products and services.

    Some people are worried about Chinas future military intentions... I would be a LOT more worried about their population and economic effects on the world in the next century.

    So they made it so space... whopee. As others have said maybe it will help kick start the space race lethargy we've been in since the moon landings. As for them "sharing" their results with the US, I guess they'll share just as generously as the US and USSR did when they initially sent people to space.


    Sorry for the rant bros, but it bugs me to hear/read about china being called a "Third world country" and cast aside as if they were nobodies just because they have a massively different culture and lifestyle as we of European descent do.

    Besides many of todays technologies were invented in China...

    Gunpowder 8th century AD
    Paper 140 BC!!!
    Modern mass Papermaking 150AD
    Moveable type printing 1050AD (300 years before Gutenberg in EU)
    The compass 11th century AD
    Non natural magnets 3rd century AD
    The multi-stage rocket
    Matches!!! 577AD (they appeared in EU in 1530!)
    The Seismograph 132AD
    Paper money!!!! 9th century AD
    Blast furnace... and so on and so on and so on...

    By the way, Chinese physicists developed a nuclear reactor is 1958, an atomic bomb in 1964, a missile to deliver it in 1966, put a satellite into orbit in 1970, and now a man in orbit in 2003...

    Go to your library and pick up "The Genius of China: 3,000 Years of Science, Discovery, and Invention" by Robert Temple and be ready to read some impressive shit.

    China may live at a different pace, as does their technology... but what do you expect from such a different culture that has been around SO long.

    Red

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    I think europe had been a much better place if Hitler would have won the war and united europe. His mad rascist oppinions would have faded away with time because people cant be feed with bullshit like that for to long. What would have been left is a grand powerfull united europe. Not the socialist shit it is today.

    Permission to defend yourself? When was ever iraq a threat to you Have you guys found the wmd's yet
    IF you want to get rid of a threat then go after north korea. But hey that would acctualy be a fight and Israel wouldnt gain shit from that.

    Also EU is growing and is becoming more united as we speek.
    Without europe there would be no united states. without france you would still be part of the UK. We are not speaking history here! Hell the states should belong to the nordic countries because the vikings found it first!
    Its you americans that always thinks we should be gratefull for beeing "rescued". I mean hell france was semi nazi and many french fought AGAINST the allies during ww2. Did they want to be rescued??

    But everything is black and white right? The nazis was the boogie man and the usa was the knight in shining armor that steped in and saved the day when everyone else had done most of the work. Without russia europe would have been hitlers without a doubt. We europeans should be gratefull to russia for the huge sacrifices they suffered during the war.

    Germany didnt want ww2 and they just reclaimed land that belonged to them. Many of the countries wanted to be a part of germany again. They did the same damn thing that sovjet did. But nobody protested agains sovjet grabbing land, but when nazi germany did it there was a huge outcry.
    Bascially what I gather from your bull shit, is that your a dumb, fucking no nothing teenager, who needs to be bitch slapped and set straight. you're also a God damn Nazi at heart. Germany did not want WWII?!, are you a total fucking retard or are just totally ignorant of facts and reality?. I suggest you put down your copy of "Mein Kumphf" for just one moment and open a history book. Hitler did want war you stupid little shit. He did not want it in 1939, but he specfically wanted it in 1944. That was the year he PLANNED to go to war. He had delusions of granduer since he was a corporal in the german army during WWI. You see i know these facts, because unlike jerkoffs like your self I can actually read impartial and factual literature rather than mindless propogana that only weak and feeble minded twits like your self and rest of the hitler youth believe. MOD's i'm sorry I know the rules about flaming and everything else, but please read this assholes thread from beginning to end, and you maybe you can understand why I went off like this. Come on, I know some of you Mod's are from the U.K.. Doesn't it bother you just a little that this little cock sucker actually has the balls and stupidity to say that Europe would be a better place If Hitler had won the war. Johan you're lucky you live on the other side of the Atlantic, because if I ever meet you I will kick your ignorant punk ass all over the Fucking street. Please Mod's close this thread before I get banned.

  35. #35
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    I must have missed the part where he said Europe would be a better place if Hitler won. Hm...

    Im gonna buy that book tomorrow RED.
    They compared the US might with China. It was pretty close. Always someone to worry about.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDoe1234
    Bascially what I gather from your bull shit, is that your a dumb, fucking no nothing teenager, who needs to be bitch slapped and set straight. you're also a God damn Nazi at heart. Germany did not want WWII?!, are you a total fucking retard or are just totally ignorant of facts and reality?. I suggest you put down your copy of "Mein Kumphf" for just one moment and open a history book. Hitler did want war you stupid little shit. He did not want it in 1939, but he specfically wanted it in 1944. That was the year he PLANNED to go to war. He had delusions of granduer since he was a corporal in the german army during WWI. You see i know these facts, because unlike jerkoffs like your self I can actually read impartial and factual literature rather than mindless propogana that only weak and feeble minded twits like your self and rest of the hitler youth believe. MOD's i'm sorry I know the rules about flaming and everything else, but please read this assholes thread from beginning to end, and you maybe you can understand why I went off like this. Come on, I know some of you Mod's are from the U.K.. Doesn't it bother you just a little that this little cock sucker actually has the balls and stupidity to say that Europe would be a better place If Hitler had won the war. Johan you're lucky you live on the other side of the Atlantic, because if I ever meet you I will kick your ignorant punk ass all over the Fucking street. Please Mod's close this thread before I get banned.
    What the fuck is your problem man? everyone has oppinions and my oppinions is not based on mindless propaganda. I never read mein kampf and I do aggre hitler was a nutcase. But he wasnt stupid. He was forced into a war that he didnt want. He DIDNT want to war the UK. There would never have been a war betwen germany and UK if churchill handt been pushing the country into a war.
    You want to know another thing? Many in your beloved states suported the nazis. Before your goverment started spewing out propaganda against them.
    But no the jewish run media has aboslutely nothing to do with that

    Delusions of granduer I guess its nothing to go from a unemployed bum to the sumpreme ruler of one of the greates nations of that time?
    I am not a nazi you idiot. I clerely stated Im not a nazi before in this thread. The nazi movements that exist is just a bunch of rasicst idiots.
    Dont ever call me stupid. Ever heard that the winners write the history books? In every god damn history book you only hear about the horrors of nazi germany. You can say whatever you want but germany right before ww2 was a great and proud nation. Never again are we going to se a country that united towards a common goal.

    Threats of violence, wow that realy makes me think you are a very bright guy

    Im going to repet this so you might understand it

    I have NEVER read any nazi propaganda!
    I am NOT a nazi!
    I am NOT a rascist!
    I have nothing against any race or religion(except the religious fanatics and that inclues christians, jew and musslim fanatics, all the same shit)
    I admire what hitler was trying to do(but absolutely despies other things he did)!


    Go dig down in your history books again and read alittle more about how the US saved the world blablabla that will probably make you feel better again.
    But dont even consider the russian sacrifices, or how china suffered against japan. Because you guys kicked both nazi germany and japan singelhandedly your da man

    Dont bother responding to this, Im not gonna debate it any further, unlike you I dont find any joy on flaming on message boards and plz dont take things so personal, your blood pressure doesnt like that you know. I have nothing against you or the fact that you like your country. So just let this die

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Ketchup
    Go to your library and pick up "The Genius of China: 3,000 Years of Science, Discovery, and Invention" by Robert Temple and be ready to read some impressive shit.

    China may live at a different pace, as does their technology... but what do you expect from such a different culture that has been around SO long.

    Red
    That sounds like a damn interesting read, going to have to pic it upp and read it.

  38. #38
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    [QUOTE=bermich]I must have missed the part where he said Europe would be a better place if Hitler won. Hm...
    QUOTE]

    I can tell you why I think that if you want to hear it.

  39. #39
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    Johndoe1234 you are welcome to fly over here and make your threat real. I will wait at the airport with johan, we will have an ambulance for you waiting.

    Im not going to go into the debatte but dont be a tough guy behind your screen.

  40. #40
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    let's just quit talking about things we disagree on and get back on focus to what we do agree on....bb'ing, as, etc.

    I don't think there is anything productive going to come out of continuing this type of debate. The world has all kinds, no matter from what part of the world you are looking, there's going to be things out there that you disagree with. Let's focus on the things we do agree about.

    peace,

    ttgb

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