Thread: Gun Control!!
10-22-2003, 01:28 AM #1
Well it seems that my views on hunting are greatly outnumbered on this predominantly American forum. hehe.
So... just for shits and giggles, let's start a thread on gun control.
What do you guys think? For or against? Why?
Personally I don't think any handguns, semi's or fully automatics should be allowed in public hands. Shotguns and hunting rifles should require a full check of the buyer's criminal background in all states/provinces. I also believe in gun registration. I read somewhere about new technology where a gun could only be fired by the grip of the authorised user/s. It even worked with gloves on. Very cool.
This should be fun.
10-22-2003, 01:43 AM #2Senior Member
- Join Date
- Jul 2003
I am a police officer and i carry my weapon where ever i go. I do beleive that a law abiding citizen should be able to carry a weapon, if he or she so chooses. I do beleive that there are certain critera for a person to be able to posses a CCW, NO FELONIES, NO DUI/DWI'S, NO DRUG CHARGES( COKE, METH, HEROIN etc etc). They should also be responsible for taking a State mandated class on how to properly use the weapon. I also beleive that the tag on your car should have some kind of reference on the tag , or in the information the tag provides, to alert the officer that a weapon is in the car. It is written in our Constitution that "We have the right to bear arms" and if you are a "good" citizen then you most certanly have the right.
10-22-2003, 02:08 AM #3Member
- Join Date
- May 2002
As soon as I move out of California and into Montana, I will be getting a CCW permit for my Springfield 1911 .45. I think it's people who buy illegal hand guns on the street who ruin it for all the law abiding citizens.
I know that people who have licensed guns commit crimes too. I don't think taking guns away from us is the answer.
There's a good book called, "More Guns, Less Crime". It's by John Lott. RR
10-22-2003, 02:31 AM #4Originally Posted by PurePower
My thoughts exactly. I don't want the bad guys in this world to have an advantage. Protecting myself and my family is extremely important to me. I also agree with proper education on gun safety.
10-22-2003, 02:35 AM #5
I am not allowed to own a gun but I wouldnt mind having a 9 mili.
States that allow people to carry guns surprisingly has lower crime. Criminals who think someone might have a gun are less likely to fuck with him.
Controlling guns is a problem though. But what are you gonna do.
Imagine a country trying to invade america. Fuck, with 70 percent of the population strapped, they will have a fun time.
10-22-2003, 02:39 AM #6
As soon as my criminal record was expunged by a judge when i turned 21, i've been collecting guns like a mad man.
pre ban Nor underfolder AK
Hk semi auto mp5
HK PSG1 sniper rifle
Armalite AR-10 A2 .308
Used to have a 50 BMG i made from an AR-15
USP compact .45
colt snub nosed 38
Yes i do love me them guns. I hope that answers your question on where i stand on gun control.
10-22-2003, 02:43 AM #7
Oh and yes i have my CCW and carry every day.
10-22-2003, 02:44 AM #8
Oh and btw, purepower, it's refreshing to hear a cop defend our right to bear arms. Around here they will do ANYTHING to not issue a CCW. In some states its a "shall issue", here you HAVE to have a reason. Luckily since i carry a lot of money around with me for buisness, its a reason.
10-22-2003, 05:03 AM #9
Well the right to bare arms was written a LONG time ago for reasons that don't exist anymore. The way the NRA uses that one is retarded.
The US has the highest gun related deaths per year by a shocking percentage than any other nation, most guns per person too... hmmm.
You say there's less crime in states which allow people to carry guns because the criminals are scared to commit crime, but what if the criminals didn't have guns in the first place?
PurePower, I agree with your critieria for gun posession but do people need to be carrying weapons that are designed SOLEY to kill people? Why not make more non-leathal weapons that will incapacitate an attacker.
It's a big problem. Once the guns are out there, which they are, it's hard to go back. The only way joe public feels he can "level the field" so to speak is to arm himself. Too bad so many have to die because of it.
I like the US a lot but it's a big reason I'm glad I live in Canada.
10-22-2003, 05:58 AM #10
hey purepower......im with you bro 100%, im on the job as well, and you could not have said it any better, well put!!............Cntndr
10-22-2003, 05:59 AM #11Originally Posted by PurePower
10-22-2003, 09:51 AM #12Respected Member
Originally Posted by Nixter
- Join Date
- Apr 2002
- Miller's Crossing
The right to bare arms was written a long time ago, you are correct; but so was freedom of speech. If you begin to justify expelling rights our country was founded on, you start a dissintegration of our foundation.
The US has the highest gun related deaths per year, not soley becasue of right to bare arms, it has a lot to do with the way our criminal justice system is set up; allowing a human to do as they like(within reason). Innocent untill proven guilty is the reason for our crime, and its worth it. Just punishment is another issue.
What if criminals didn't have the guns in the first place? A moot suggestion. Citizens have rights, and unfortuantely, men who take them for granted and exploit those rights benefit as well. I am not prepared to surrender my rights, to alleviate crime. A man willing to do that does not deserve the rights in the first place.
A weapons in the hands of a good citizen, or a police officer in PP's case, is not a weapon designed for killing, it's desigend for protection. A shame that self-protection is circumstance which might come by, but if a man should slip through my window with a knife, I'm glad I've got my .40
10-22-2003, 09:58 AM #13Originally Posted by Nixter
10-22-2003, 10:01 AM #14Originally Posted by Nixter
actually, i like cliche...i take that back
I agree there are problems with guns in the US. I've never owned one, but i recognize someone's right to own one. Besides, if you outlaw handguns but keep hunting rifles, shotguns, etc...people can still use shotguns etc for whatever they want...that's not solving anything.
After living in a bigger city...i wouldn't mind having one. I'm actually planning to take a class and eventually apply for a permit to carry...i was never raised around guns, so have very little experience...i'd want to know how to handle it, and myself before running out and buying one
10-22-2003, 10:14 AM #15Originally Posted by Nixter
10-22-2003, 10:22 AM #16
I probally possess the most guns out of any one on this board, you guys want to talk gun talk Ill talk gun talk. I have my CCW. My grandfather who is a huge gun Enthusiast was the old president of the NRA in New York state. Just gave me the entifire collection minus a few of his pistols and prize posetions. I Have in my collection 196 different guns.
I mean everything. I have a musket from the civil war that was appraised at 22,000$. Not to mention the thing still works I would never actually shoot it but its in perfect working condition. My gun of choice though is the first pistol I got which is a hand assemble custom made .45 which every part was customly picked out piece by piece and hand assembled in New York. It ran my grandfather with lasers and everything about 5k. I mean this thing is sweet. Talk about precision engineering the thing is abolutely amazing.
10-22-2003, 10:41 AM #17
I've mentioned this before, and I agree with Nixter, I don't think owning a bunch of guns will solve any problems.
All those laws and rights were written far too long ago to be taken so literally. Why can't those things be changed?!? Why not remove the "bare arms" rule, and keep the freedom of speech one and other "good" ones. Is it because people are affraid of change? Probably a part of it.
I just watched Bowling for Columbine recently, it seems like a fantastic movie. Dick Clark and Charles Heston both refuse to go into detail, Clark who didn't even talk to Moore, why? Because A) They know all the information, and they know it well, B) Yet they have no answers, or arguments to support their claims. And for someone to ONLY repeat "Oh it's my right, it's my right." Seems kind of silly.
Heston says he has NEVER been a victim of crime, yet he has many loaded guns in his house. WHY?! I'll tell you why, because it makes him feel like more of a man, it makes him feel more powerful and superior to the next man. And because he is fascinated by guns and the power it has to kill someone. Meaning, compared to another person, he feels more comfortable killing someone (if need be) then you're average citizen.
Those are just my opinions of course and wut not.
10-22-2003, 10:43 AM #18
One more thing, it would be really cool for people especially students to have to watch such documentaries as Bowling for Columbine, maybe for some people, it would make a difference. For those who don't give a shit, and don't take anything out of that movie, are already far too gone.
10-22-2003, 10:45 AM #19
Think about this - -
a. The number of physicians in the US is over 700,000.
b. The number of accidental deaths caused by physicians per year exceed 120,000.
c. Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171. (US Dept. of Health & Human Services).
Then think about this - -
a. The number of gun owners in the US is over 80,000,000.
b. The number of accidental gun deaths per year is 1,500.
c. The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is .0000188.
Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.
FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT ALMOST EVERYONE HAS AT LEAST ONE
Please alert your friends to this alarming threat. We must ban doctors
before this gets out of hand.
10-22-2003, 11:00 AM #20Originally Posted by ripped4fsu
10-22-2003, 12:45 PM #21
Gun control means hitting your target!!!!!!
10-22-2003, 12:53 PM #22Originally Posted by ripped4fsu
10-22-2003, 12:53 PM #23
Seriously though Purepower,Redrock,Cb25,Sublang,Pheendo,Someday(and others) said it best so there is no reason repeat the facts, that said.
Another cliche' : "Guns dont kill people,people kill people"
The fact of the matter is if someone wants to kill someone badly enff there are plenty of other things to kill them with.
We can't ban all dangerous objects, hell you can probably beat someonet to death with a hammer so are you gonna come take my hammers away from me so I can't make a living???
10-22-2003, 01:27 PM #24
You know with gun control, possessing a firearm is a constitutional right passed due to the fact that at one point and time the government was acting in an abusive way toward fellow citizens, it was passed to in able the citizens to posses the power to protect them selves. Take away that right and where are we, back a phase one... And what will the government be able to due... Basically anything because who would have the power to fight back... No one, I know that this is a hypothetical statement and the government still posses power that exceeds that of individual gun owners but if the possision of firearms were illegal then the only people that would have firearms would be the government and criminals, and how would law abiding citizens be able to protect themselves from the criminals...
10-22-2003, 01:47 PM #25Originally Posted by Terinox
Again, I'm confused by some people's mentallity. Me owning a gun does not hurt you in any way. Why would you want to take it away from me. What I do or own is none of your business.
How's this...Since you do not like or own a gun, you are less of man! There should be a law "changed" in the constituion that says "you have to own a gun." It is the exact same logic you are demonstrating, just turned around. Doens't make any fucking sense does it?
I have never been a victim of a brutal crime nor my house robbed during the middle of night. Things is, god forbid, if it ever does happen, my wife and family will be fine the next day. Will yours? I choose not to wait until I need a gun to go get one. USA is great place. Why do people always keep wanting to fuck it up?
Last edited by tryingtogetbig; 10-22-2003 at 02:23 PM.
10-22-2003, 01:48 PM #26Originally Posted by Bigboy123
Look I know that I'm not going to change the minds of a bunch of gun-toating Americans because they grew up with guns believing that it's their right to own them. But ANY arguments for owning guns on a personal level is like a drop of water in the sea to all the people who are killed by guns each year in the US. There's idiots and criminals among us. Teaching gun safety or making all kinds of laws is totally useless. The VERY simple fact is that more guns equals more gun deaths.
10-22-2003, 01:50 PM #27Originally Posted by bdtr
10-22-2003, 01:54 PM #28Originally Posted by Nixter
Also, if you break into my house, call me in-humane, I don't want to 'shock' you...I want, and will, to blow your f'ing head off. Less complicated. More messy, but better results.
10-22-2003, 01:59 PM #29
tryingtogetbig, you want to protect your family? How come some of these guys need 6-7 LOADED guns to do this??? And we ALL know not all those guns are used for hunting, a lot of those guns pure purpose is to kill, and are military issue and what not, I don't get that.
I mean, what do you need an automatic rifle or something that holds like 30 bullets or something (I don't know shit about guns by the way). There are these AK-47's or something and I mean do they expect that Saddam or Bin Laden is actually gonna be sending in 20-30 terrorists straight to your home to kill you? Or a gang of 30-40 people are gonna raid you're home that you need a full automatic with 10-20 full clips?
10-22-2003, 02:05 PM #30
I can agree that there are extremists...but if you start to "limit" them, which they are a minority of gun owners, then it ALWAYS starts limiting the majority that are not extremists. Make sense. A lot of it gets into a grey area.
BTW...there are NUMEROUS restrictions in place in the USA for gun possession already. The only people not following the laws are the criminals, so in turn, what good did the gun restrictions do in the long run?
10-22-2003, 02:08 PM #31Originally Posted by Terinox
Of course the rest of the world will be calling on the USA to come bail there ass out if it happens in there country anyway, so I don't guess other countries really need guns to begin with.
10-22-2003, 02:11 PM #32
glock 23 is .40 cal.
Those sites are really nice, i tried my buddys out, its worth the money.
Originally Posted by tryingtogetbig
10-22-2003, 02:20 PM #33Originally Posted by bdtr
Sweet. I was really undecided between the .40 and .357 sig for a while, but the .40 is so popular and less expensive to shoot that I'm going with it. The model of my new one is the 27, so it's still a little smaller than your 23. Like I said though, won't be shooting a whole bunch.
10-22-2003, 02:22 PM #34Originally Posted by tryingtogetbig
There needs to be a better system maybe to control all that shit. They were talking about guns for cops that could take their finger prints or palm prints when they grip the handle, and it will only fire for those hands programmed into the gun's memory or something. Not sure how far along those projects are going, they can be damn expensive. Imagine having that on all guns then that would be great (if it ever worked out the way it's supposed to).
But still, it is a tough thing. And I'm not just looking at it on a "one sided point of view" cuz for all I know, if I lived in the states, and it was legal in the state I lived in then I may even be tempted to get one. But it would be more of a thing like, well if all your neighbours have it, and you don't, then you are at a disadvantage. Just up here in Canada doesn't feel as bad or dangerous.
10-22-2003, 02:24 PM #35
I keep my guns to keep canadians from trying to take away my rights. First the king of England, now those damn canadians in their little dream world of peace.
10-22-2003, 02:25 PM #36
Also I must admit, I am fascinated by guns as I've mentioned before in that other gun control thread a while back. It's the whole aspect of it though, I mean everyone has an interest to some degree. I'd like to learn about them, learn how to use them and etc... Just don't like the idea of walking down the street and knowing that every single person may be carrying one (not that it is like that though, just saying).
10-22-2003, 02:26 PM #37
I like the 27 as a carry gun but its way too small for my banana hands. I normally carry my glock in the small of my back and my snub nosed in my front pocket since its so small. Whats the point of carrying two loaded weapons? Because i can
Originally Posted by tryingtogetbig
10-22-2003, 02:29 PM #38Originally Posted by Terinox
As far as walking down the street and possibly everyone having a gun...if you are thinking that then so are the criminals!! That's the whole idea.
10-22-2003, 02:52 PM #39
Personally, I am against any type of gun control. Murder is fact of humanity. People have been killing other people for as long as we have been on Earth. Those of you that are proponents of gun control make it sound as though a gun is the only weapon used for murder. More people die by stabbing each year than by gunshot wounds. I guess we need to ban all knives as well. What next. KFC sporks. If someone wants to kill another human being, they will do it whether they have a gun or not.
10-22-2003, 03:28 PM #40
I have no problem with people owning guns. I respect the right to bear arms, and see no need to rescind it. That is what freedom is all about. I have hunted on occaision (just doves and pheasants) with my family, and my father in law is a big time hunter and is self employed as a sporting goods rep to hunting and fishing retail stores. However, I do not see any reason to have legal public access to automatic, semi-auto weapons, or handguns. The only thing they are good for is killing people. Buy a rifle, or better a shotgun if you want to protect your home. You'd have to be a pretty bad shot to miss with a shotgun. My father in law agrees with this sentiment, and he is a card carrying NRA member.
On all other matters, I agree with PurePower as well. Those guns which are legal should only be available to those with clean records. Training in gun safety should be mandatory. If driving is restricted to those who pass tests, then why not gun use? Guns should be legal to posess, but lets be reasonable about what kind, to whom they are available, and how they are are permitted to be used. That's just my opinion.
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