Hey Mormans.

[Taejoon]

And it certainly does not make someone who does not believe derserving of the fires of hell!

[calidude]

"and that not of yourselves it is the gift of God, lest any man should boast." It's been awhile, a little over three years since I cracked a Bible, but I still recall some of it.

[Taejoon]

Does that mean you're going to bed?

[calidude]

And it certainly does not make someone who does not believe derserving of the fires of hell!

I agree I don't see how Jesus can die for us then send us to hell. It defeated the purpose didn't it ?

[Taejoon]

Not according the Paul's writings...

[calidude]

yeah but there are others i like better
There are still a lot i have to find for myself. Thats why Im not Catholic anymore. But I still do believe in Jesus Christ.

[Taejoon]

It did defeat the purpose of hell, it simply made it possible for us to be in presence of God, i.e. Heaven, before Christ's death, sin was only covered through limited atonemnt (animal sacrifices - old testament). After Christ's death it was possible to have continual fellowship with Him.

[Taejoon]

Bro, Paul wrote over 80% of the New Testament, that can't be disptued.

[calidude]

Exactly Thats Why I Am Having A Hard Time Believing In A Hell'

[Taejoon]

Correction: did not defeat the purpose of hell.

[calidude]

Bro, Paul wrote over 80% of the New Testament, that can't be disptued.

I know bro I was being sarcastic.

[Taejoon]

Then what to have to say about Jesus's references to the "outer darkness", and "weeping and knashing of teeth", these things were not thought up by Paul.

[calidude]

Correction: did not defeat the purpose of hell.

Eternal damnation away from God.

[calidude]

That was before he died.

[calidude]

time for bed talk to you later

[Taejoon]

there isn't much that he said after he supposedly came back bro, 99% of his theology was laid out before he died, I don't see your point...

[Taejoon]

Thanks for the chat bro, later...

[calidude]

hell was active before he died for our sins thats all I meant

[Taejoon]

You are right about this...

[Taejoon]

Thought you were going to bed?

[Taejoon]

Well, I am going to bed, peace bro...

[Nailer]

nice chat

[peam]

how about fate? If you believe in fate.. do you really make your own choices? If God knows all the choices we will make we're not really making them for ourselves. If you believe that you can make your own choices you just end up in the place fate says you will, what's the point of making these "choices"?

[lilbull]

how about fate? If you believe in fate.. do you really make your own choices? If God knows all the choices we will make we're not really making them for ourselves. If you believe that you can make your own choices you just end up in the place fate says you will, what's the point of making these "choices"?

Kinda like, God said he gave us Free will, but he is all knowing and know's what we are gonna do? If he already has a plan and knows what we are gonna do, then just how free can our will be?

[peam]

Don't get me wrong... I believe in God... I'm just not sure it all makes sense. But I guess that's what having faith is huh? Just believing the word.

[peam]

and another thing...... you're not supposed to believe in God just to get to heaven and you're not supposed to do good things to just get to heaven...dude... I think the puritans had it right with the whole predestonation thing... I mean.... if God knows what we're going to do all the time.... aren't we either to put it as Bart Simpson would say, "we're damned if we do and damned if we don't?"

[lilbull]

I don't like the idea of predestination because I don't like the thought that I don't have any control over my life, but there are many times when things happen and I think they happen for some reason, and I just can't see what it is yet.

[peam]

I have the hardest freakin time with not knowing why things happen... not being in control over them. I'm working on that though ..... just relax peam! Breathe!

[tryingtogetbig]

a conversation dealing with religion...and nobody has gotten mad or pissed yet!!??

I am impressed!!!!!!! Seriously...nice dialogue.

peace,

ttgb

[Mr. Sparkle]

I think the puritans had it right with the whole predestonation thing... I mean.... if God knows what we're going to do all the time....

hey peam think about this, for God there is no time. He can see the start as well as the end. He knows us better than we do, so he knows what we will do. But its up for use to make up our own minds. Things happen for a reason. dont get sad when it starts going bad. God has a greater plan, search him and find out what it is.

-MS

[Taejoon]

The Puritans did have it right, actually it wasn't the Purtians at all. It was John Calvin, or as most theologians call it Calvinistic Theology. That's where the whole idea of pre-destination came from, and yes free will is crock, with or without God. If there isn't God, there is still universal causation, and that makes it impossible for human being to actually make any choices based on free will. This is also known as hardline determinism, that is, no one is responsible for their own actions because they were "caused" to do these things, they did not "choose" to do them.

[monster.]

I belive that jesus himself would be cycling up right now if he wasn't the king of kings

amen

[slamd097]

That is why they call it faith Bro...

Ok, I know I am going to open a can of worms on this one but here we go.

I am LDS. But before we get into the hey your going on AS, and such, Im not a good morman> Im not a Jack morman. Believe me I make those guys look like chior boys. I have been excommunicated, re-instated, disfellowshipped, and the re-instated, and now I have no idea where I stand.

Joseph Smith didn't read that plates out of a damn hat or anyother thing that the guys at south park dreamed up. I am not going to preach or anything like that, all I'm going to say is look into it. THere are a hundred web sites. Just don't go to the bashing sites. they have a lot of shit bassakwards.

But I am not supprised that there is alot of bad information.

I hope I didn't upset any of the Bros here, I just wanted to clear the water. And Religion is always a sensitive subject with everyone. But Imho, to each their own. Just please don't push it on me and if I have questions, ill ask you. (yes I was almost one of those dorks that wrode his bike in the snow!!)

[Tock]

I spent 18 years in the church and was on my way to seminary to study to become a pastor before I saw Christianity for what it was...

=========

Yep, same thing here. I regard my church years as part of my wasted youth.
And talk about wasted days -- I used to play the **** accordian in front of department stores begging for $$ for the **** church . . . Geez, I think back on all those days I coulda been out doing ANYTHING else . . . whatta waste . . .

[bermich]

One Thing That Will Always Stay The Same: Change.

[Red Ketchup]

=========
I used to play the **** accordian in front of department stores begging for $$ for the **** church . . . Geez, I think back n all those days I coulda been out doing ANYTHING else . . . whatta waste . . .

Man, I hurt for ya bro! Thats pretty... well... sad.

I'm an agnostic leaning a lot towards atheism myself. In my mind, religion is a crutch for those who feel they need to believe in more than just themselves. Nothing wrong there I guess, but it is hard for me to understand the motivation behind believers and people who do stuff like you said up there for their religion.

I guess we all live and learn...

Red

[calidude]

I'm telling you all right now...once we die and we go to heaven we are all gonna be wrong. God is going to be Brittney Spears !!!

[calidude]

Just kidding don't want anyone to take offense to that last post.

[bermich]

Britany Spears is GOD? That sucks.
I was hoping more along the lines of Christina cause anything goes with her.

[Da Bull]

Britany Spears is GOD? That sucks.
I was hoping more along the lines of Christina cause anything goes with her.

That's funny bermich...needed that laugh...thanks