Thread: Camus, Kafka & Mann
01-27-2004, 03:37 PM #1
Camus, Kafka & Mann
I have a paper to write for english. At least 5 body paragraphs... doesn't seem too long but I'm totally stumped. It's supposed to be a comparative study on three novels we read... well of at least two of them. The Stranger by albert camus The Metamorphosis by Franz Kafka and Death in Venice by Thomas Mann. Basically I'm not sure yet how long I have to write it but... I know I need at least 5 solid ideas for those body paragraphs. I've asked for help with papers on here before and got some good responses so perhaps ya'll would like to help me... if you've ever read the books before. I'd be very greatful.
01-27-2004, 03:39 PM #2
Wish I could help, but I only remember the Stranger, and never read the other 2...
and i'm kinda impressed by your HS assignments...i didn't cover this stuff until college...
01-27-2004, 03:40 PM #3
Did I fail to mention this is my entire grade? 200 of the 290 points? Eeeek!
01-27-2004, 03:43 PM #4Originally Posted by peam
That sucks...good luck tho
01-27-2004, 03:46 PM #5
ah... thanks man... hey... the metamorphasis is REALLY short... you could read it real quick to help me
01-27-2004, 03:50 PM #6Originally Posted by peam
sure. I'll do that and write your paper, if you come out here, learn all the muscles, nerves, arteries, veins of the neck, face and abdomen and take my test on monday...k? sound good? just so you know, you'll need to know them in cross section, on cadavers, in pictures, and on skeletons...
sorry...been a long day, and my brain is just about fried from studying all this...
seriously tho...good luck, when's it due?
01-27-2004, 03:52 PM #7
I have no clue when it's due! Hey... I know most the muscles and bones...... well I used to. Problem with this teacher is she's the BS queen so she can detect BS from a mile away... which means I have to actually have :gasp: good content!
01-27-2004, 03:52 PM #8
you have to do those books??.............cause i have an amazing paper i wrote for "To Kill A Mockingbird"
01-27-2004, 03:54 PM #9
did to kill a mockingbird 2 years ago.... didn't have to write a paper on it either... **** it danielle! read those books and write my paper! come on! be a friend!
01-27-2004, 04:08 PM #10
i will say...your new avatar and signature are totally fitting...i love 'em...
01-27-2004, 04:12 PM #11
lol... thanks I figured I might as well embrace it since I can't deny it..... seriously though I need a thesis... a intro & concluding paragraph and all my topic sentences by tomorrow... uh oh I feel like I'm gonna be pulling an all nighter... starbucks here I come
01-27-2004, 04:22 PM #12Originally Posted by peam
01-27-2004, 04:31 PM #13
I like this thread and this is fun talking with you but I'm SCREWED just like that girl partyboy is talking about... just except.... by my english teacher ahhhhhhh
So both the stranger and metamorphosis are existentialist ...... one guy doesn't care that his mom died, he kills a man and pays a lot of attention to detail ALL the time.... the other one turns into a bug and is kept in his room while his family ignores him.... compare or contrast... well one guy is a bug... but I don't even know if he's literally a bug or not... cuz these philosophers are crazy. Maybe I could compare how they are both outcasts socially and when the big change occurs it's even more apparant to themselves that they are outcasted?
01-27-2004, 04:58 PM #14
sounds reasonable...i guess i don't know much about kafka's writing, but I know that the Stranger was existentialist...i think i wrote a paper comparing Camus and Sartre's views of that topic a few years back...
i think you may have a good point though. think about what existentialism is. As I remember it, it's kind of an "action defines us" sort of philosophy, so that would go along with your point that they only realize what they are once something happens to them...does that make sense??
01-27-2004, 05:00 PM #15
sure does got an idea now... just need 5-7 really good things to say about it
01-27-2004, 07:17 PM #16
Okay how does this for a thesis sound.... Both characters realiz how society views them after a major life change. Is that even a thesis? :sigh:
01-27-2004, 11:42 PM #17
I Am Dying Over Here Guys! Been Staring At A Blank Piece Of Paper For Way Too Long. I Need Somebody Smart To Help Me! Pleeeeeeeeeease!
01-28-2004, 07:01 AM #18Originally Posted by peam
The works of Camus and Kafka both offer an existentialist view, in that both of the main characters realize their true being only after a major life experience changes how society views them.
If it's not too late, maybe that'll help...
01-28-2004, 08:35 PM #19
Oh it's not too late cb.... I am still without a thesis AND an idea. I'm working on it slowly... sadly I don't think I can use what you've written because I don't have enough info to write about that subject. Thank you though.
01-29-2004, 07:32 AM #20
eh...it was worth a shot...i don't think i could come up with ANY info to back what i wrote up, so...
good luck anyway
02-01-2004, 08:53 PM #21
I thought you might be interested in seeing the final product... I could be wrong but here it is....
Life is meaningless. There is no reason to live besides not wanting to die. Existentialism is a philosophy in which one is defined solely by his or her actions, nothing more and nothing less. With existentialist authors such as Albert Camus and Franz Kafka there can be discrepancies within their characterís personal philosophies. These variations are established within Albert Camusí novel The Stranger and Franz Kafkaís The Metamorphosis. Both novels are existentialist in nature however the main characters individual philosophies are completely different. Mersault and Gregorís views on the values of life vary greatly; Mersault observes life apathetically, whereas Gregor feels that hope does exist.
From the opening of these novels the main characters life philosophies are evident. Mersault in The Stranger is extremely uninterested in all things that deal with emotions in any way and in any actions which make up his existence. He shows no remorse for his own motherís death. Instead Mersault is consumed in his physical being at each and every moment, only noticing how hot it is at his motherís funeral, instead of feeling grief. He gives no thought to anyone but himself. He is a waste of a life and does nothing to
better the lives of those around him. On the other hand there is Gregor who in The Metamorphosis tries desperately to get to work on time despite his new physical form. Gregorís believed meaning of life is solely to support his family. His frantic attempt to make it to his job is a selfless act and thus demonstrates Gregorís dissimilarity from Mersault.
Practicing existentialism means that one simple decision defines a person. Mersaultís defining action occurred when he pulled the gunís trigger and took a life. Mersault wanted to kill the Arab. He never said so, but he didnít need to, his actions revealed his desire to kill. Mersault shot the Arab 5 times, not just once because to him the result was the same. So, it didnít make a difference how many times he pulled the trigger. Gregorís decision to hide from his family when they enter his room further defined his meaning for life. Before the transformation he lived to provide for his family. After, he tries to make it as easy as possible for his family to live with him.
Other characterís lives are affected by Mersault and Gregorís actions throughout these novels. A trial is given for Mersaultís murder. During that, he stays in prison. His girlfriend comes to visit him and during that time the reader can see that Mersault does not care if his girlfriend is there or not. Mersault does not care that he is in prison. He is completely indifferent to the fact that this girlfriend is more affected by his decision to murder, than he is himself. Gregorís transformation affected only his ability to care for his family however, Gregor had to become a bug so his family would do better off withouthim. Before his transformation Gregorís family did nothing for themselves and completely depended on him. After, they get along fine by themselves because Gregor is no longer able to provide for them.
Mersault and Gregor deal with otherís feelings differently. Mersault isnít totally apathetic by choice. He is mentally incapable of being anything less than a sociopath. Mersault doesnít understand that because he kills a man he will go to jail and his girlfriend will be sad and miss him. He doesnít understand that smoking with his motherís dead body in the room could be disrespectful. Mersault doesnít understand feelings at all. He does what he wants to do whenever he wants to do it and physicality rules his world. He believes no matter what he does it could never change his or anybody elseís life because you can only truly change something, for better or worse if it has value. Along with hiding himself from his familyís view, Gregor knows that his familyís moving on and forgetting about him is whatís best for them. He has meaning in his life but it is only and agent for change in others, to put value in their lives. Gregor accepts his role in life and with that is able to be at peace with himself and the world.
Finally, both men are freed of their lives regardless of whether or not they were perceived to have meaning. Mersault admitted that he was afraid of death, but that was okay for him because thatís a natural feeling. It was, however, a passing feeling with Mersault. Shortly before his death he felt happy he was going to die because then the chaplain would be out of his cell and not annoying him.
Dieing was a way of freeing Mersault from himself. His meaningless existence would be terminated and the only thing he wanted was for a lot of people to watch his execution. Gregor also felt free with death but only because he would no longer be a burden to his family. Gregor still wanted to help out but he had done his job. His devolving forced those around him to better themselves because they must. Gregorís life was to become a bug and he was happy dieing, knowing that he had fulfilled his purpose in life.
Mersaultís unconcerned way of living and Gregorís optimistic way, demonstrate the value they place on life. Mersault is existentialist to the fullest while Gregor is anything but. Meraultís inability to realize how his actions affect others leads to turmoil. Gregor cannot control his transformation but does his best to make it an easy transition. Many people go through life not knowing why theyíre here. So does everybody have a purpose in life? Or is everybody here for no reason?
02-02-2004, 12:43 PM #22
like i said, it's been awhile since i read The Stranger...but it looks like you pulled off quite a paper...
02-02-2004, 01:24 PM #23
i'd critique, but can't help you again...sorry
02-02-2004, 01:48 PM #24
it's alright 50.... it's done... just thought since CB was helping me before he might wanna see the end result...
02-02-2004, 07:21 PM #25Originally Posted by peam
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