Why should I vote for Bush

[bermich]

Huh? I don't understand the question.

I am saying we should not put the majority of the tax burden on the rich, why tax them heavier for their sucess? I think they should pay their share but they should not carry the majority due to their sucess.

What motivates me to open another branch? So I will have higher taxes? My family has owned a very sucessfull bussiness and they sold it and sent it down the drain because of this. Its not what America is about, I understand that it must get paid but when you take the motivation out of small business owners you are cutting Americas throat.

I agree. Im not familiar with the tax bracket for poor middle and rich. All I know is I will pay taxes to have a military to protect me and a nation that can import and export for profit.
China is about to kick our ass in every aspect. Business, military exporting, etc.

[DADDYDBOL]

You know we do need each other, I shudder to think what would happen if a greedy bussiness owner with no regard to the public or the earth would do to us and in the same hand I am ashamed to think of what the US would become if we handed it over to a bunch of weak, pity seeking liberals.

[markas214]

Speaking of Alan Greenspan. You can look at this one of two ways or both ways. I brought up the house issue earlier in CALIF. I dont know about other states but before 3 years ago, CAs interest rate was about 7-8 percent. Now, Alan G felt that the economy was doing good so he dropped the interest rate to an average 4-5 percent. That is a savings on average of 4-500 dollars a month on a house.
At that point, a lot of first time home buyers were able to qualify for a house.
All those elidgable looked for houses at the SAME TIME. Houses were in demand and quantities were limited so houses at 200,000 dollars went up LITERALLY in 2 years to 400,000. The next year they went up still. Now that same 200,000 dollar house sells for 500,000. All the first time home buyers have a sizeable profit in their home they just bought without putting a dime into it. GOOD THING.
BAD THING. Now everyone who doesnt own a house CAN NOT buy a house at 500,000 dollars. Especailly since those houses once cost 200,000 only 2 years ago and are not worth 500,000.
So ALAN really ****ed up CA on that one.
It has nothing to do with BUSH. It has to do with much more indepth workings that I dont fully understand.
The market will stabalize, the interest rates will go up. People wont qualify and houses wont sell as fast. People selling their house will find it more difficult to find buyers, the house will sell for less to make a quick sale. People will wait for that good deal on a house and wait forcing other houses to lower their prices.
In 4 years, those same 500,000 houses will once again be selling for 300 maybe 350.
It has nothing to do with who is president.

The housing market is going crazy here also. I'd hate to be looking for a first house these days. It could just well be a housing bubble. The ones who will be f*cked will be those who buy at the top and end up with a couple hundred k of negative equity.
The thing you are missing about the rich is that they are no longer satisfied making 5 or 6 hundred k a year. They now have to make hundreds of millions and still don't want to pay taxes. Look at the companies incorporating the Bahamas. They are willing to take all the benefits the USA affirds them but are not willing to pay their share of taxes.

[spywizard]

That's why i pay my employees on a contract basis..

no withholdings......... no retirement...

they don't complain... i pay $35-60 per hour.........

It's the american way............

Uhh my point exactly...

[DADDYDBOL]

The housing market is going crazy here also. I'd hate to be looking for a first house these days. It could just well be a housing bubble. The ones who will be f*cked will be those who buy at the top and end up with a couple hundred k of negative equity.
The thing you are missing about the rich is that they are no longer satisfied making 5 or 6 hundred k a year. They now have to make hundreds of millions and still don't want to pay taxes. Look at the companies incorporating the Bahamas. They are willing to take all the benefits the USA affirds them but are not willing to pay their share of taxes.

Bro the rich are the most heavily taxed to date....and yet they still get up every morning and try to continue providing jobs and expanding to provide some type of viable market place. So since you won the race today tomorrow you have to start at the back? That makes no sense....

[markas214]

actually, the trend is to help make stock holders happy as the are the center point of the economy. If the stockholders aren't happy or don't want to invest then the company will fail to exists except in bankruptcy.

So what happens to everyone else? The stockholders are happy but what about the workers? Do we just leave them with poor health, housing, and education? We are losing the balance here. I am secure in my job but does that mean I should care less for those who are less fortunate? The problem with politicians is they can't see past the next election. Do you have kids 50%? I do and I am concerned about what kind of future we are creating for them.

[markas214]

Bro the rich are the most heavily taxed to date....and yet they still get up every morning and try to continue providing jobs and expanding to provide some type of viable market place. So since you won the race today tomorrow you have to start at the back? That makes no sense....

So do I feel sorry for the rich owners of Walmart or the poor slob working for them who can barly feed his family?

[50%Natural]

So what happens to everyone else? The stockholders are happy but what about the workers? Do we just leave them with poor health, housing, and education? We are losing the balance here. I am secure in my job but does that mean I should care less for those who are less fortunate? The problem with politicians is they can't see past the next election. Do you have kids 50%? I do and I am concerned about what kind of future we are creating for them.

No I am a college student. You want to know who the average stock owner is? It is a middle class hard worker like yourself with a 401k retirement plan. Don't think that stock owners are so much different from yourself. I learned a new stat that is interesting since you bring it up. 40% of the nation's population owns stock now. My parents, middle class, my best friend's parents, and most everyone else above the age of 30 I know own stock. The average rate of return on a diversified stock portfolia taking in low beta or high beta stocks historically is 11%. You'd almost have to be foolish to not own stock if you don't want to work the rest of your life. I said I agree that coprorate officals make a lot of money but I won't complain about it since my future lies beyond middle management

[markas214]

No I am a college student. You want to know who the average stock owner is? It is a middle class hard worker like yourself with a 401k retirement plan. Don't think that stock owners are so much different from yourself. I learned a new stat that is interesting since you bring it up. 40% of the nation's population owns stock now. My parents, middle class, my best friend's parents, and most everyone else above the age of 30 I know own stock. The average rate of return on a diversified stock portfolia taking in low beta or high beta stocks historically is 11%. You'd almost have to be foolish to not own stock if you don't want to work the rest of your life. I said I agree that coprorate officals make a lot of money but I won't complain about it since my future lies beyond middle management

What is your major? I hope it's something that can't be outsourced.

[DADDYDBOL]

So do I feel sorry for the rich owners of Walmart or the poor slob working for them who can barly feed his family?

This is a very calous response but "survival of the fittest"....


So the guy who busted his ass and sacarficed in school should be responsible for the gangbanger who under a court order has finally gotten his sh*t together? Oh yeh he also has 4 kids none of which he has given a single dollar and while he sells coke he is collecting a welfare check and an unemployment check. Uh I kinda look up to the rich owners now...at least they are something I can strive to become in the land of oppurtunity....remember?

[50%Natural]

So do I feel sorry for the rich owners of Walmart or the poor slob working for them who can barly feed his family?

And I am sure this poor slob could have made something better of their lives than to run the register at walmart. I can think of the people at the walmart across the street. They could at one point decided they had ambition and done something else. But hey, this is about how terrible Bush is right? What people make of their lives is their own business. If you weren't happy with your life right now, get another degree or get one if you don't have one. Your earning power will be significantly greater with a college degree or masters if you already have a degree. Take the next step if you aren't happy with your income and want to provide more to your children.
http://www.myconsumerguide.com/unive...of_phoenix.htm

[spywizard]

Berm........... I feel ya....... I was in California in 87 when there was a "correction" that will probably happen again..

Houses that were bought for $200,000 were only worth $125,000 after the rates went up............

So yes there is a problem as you have stated.........

but like so many other things.... there is always a correction....


and Mark........

Dude........... you are spouting as a "Socialist" is that what you believe.....

Me as an individual........... I get tired of paying $36,000 a year in taxes........ and i'm not rich.................

If i didn't provide a company for the 4 people that work for me......... they would still be making $65,000 a year instead of the $130,000 they make now..

So......... is it a good thing for me to have created this company??? or is it better that everyone have a job with the post office.??????

And you stated you have a secure Job............ dude........ it could be sold tomorrow......... you out on the street......

but then again.. you could get the 52 weeks of unemployment.......... If that's what makes you happy (security) good for ya............ we always need people like you........... to do the work..................

Speaking of Alan Greenspan. You can look at this one of two ways or both ways. I brought up the house issue earlier in CALIF. I dont know about other states but before 3 years ago, CAs interest rate was about 7-8 percent. Now, Alan G felt that the economy was doing good so he dropped the interest rate to an average 4-5 percent. That is a savings on average of 4-500 dollars a month on a house.
At that point, a lot of first time home buyers were able to qualify for a house.
All those elidgable looked for houses at the SAME TIME. Houses were in demand and quantities were limited so houses at 200,000 dollars went up LITERALLY in 2 years to 400,000. The next year they went up still. Now that same 200,000 dollar house sells for 500,000. All the first time home buyers have a sizeable profit in their home they just bought without putting a dime into it. GOOD THING.
BAD THING. Now everyone who doesnt own a house CAN NOT buy a house at 500,000 dollars. Especailly since those houses once cost 200,000 only 2 years ago and are not worth 500,000.
So ALAN really ****ed up CA on that one.
It has nothing to do with BUSH. It has to do with much more indepth workings that I dont fully understand.
The market will stabalize, the interest rates will go up. People wont qualify and houses wont sell as fast. People selling their house will find it more difficult to find buyers, the house will sell for less to make a quick sale. People will wait for that good deal on a house and wait forcing other houses to lower their prices.
In 4 years, those same 500,000 houses will once again be selling for 300 maybe 350.
It has nothing to do with who is president.

[50%Natural]

What is your major? I hope it's something that can't be outsourced.

I'm a business major, as soon as I recieve my bachelors i'll enrole in the masters program at university of houston

[markas214]

This is a very calous response but "survival of the fittest"....


So the guy who busted his ass and sacarficed in school should be responsible for the gangbanger who under a court order has finally gotten his sh*t together? Oh yeh he also has 4 kids none of which he has given a single dollar and while he sells coke he is collecting a welfare check and an unemployment check. Uh I kinda look up to the rich owners now...at least they are something I can strive to become in the land of oppurtunity....remember?

Theproblem is that when you have that kind of society the oppressed will rise up and revolt. That is why we need to have decent paying jobs for all who want to work. If they don't want to work then they deserve nothing.

[spywizard]

dude.,...

you are right on there..............

Theproblem is that when you have that kind of society the oppressed will rise up and revolt. That is why we need to have decent paying jobs for all who want to work. If they don't want to work then they deserve nothing.

[50%Natural]

Theproblem is that when you have that kind of society the oppressed will rise up and revolt. That is why we need to have decent paying jobs for all who want to work. If they don't want to work then they deserve nothing.

Who is oppressed? People that ****ed around and have no skills because of it? Why reward an idiot who smoked dope all through his teenage years? These people can take out loans and go to school. There always has to be a weaker class but don't act like it is our faults they got there. The oppressed comment is another whole line of b.s. that apparently you've bought in to.

[tryingtogetbig]

damit...I left for a while...glad I did...the debate was turned over to some very worthy bros...you guys rock!!

seriously...the topice of the thread has long been dead...never discuss religion and politics...golden rule...yet I always fall back into these discussions...

Glad to see it got back to a more "civil" debate...good job guys (all of you...even the evil democrats!!). lol

peace,

ttgb

[50%Natural]

seriously...the topic of the thread has long been dead

very true

[bermich]

So what happens to everyone else? The stockholders are happy but what about the workers? Do we just leave them with poor health, housing, and education? We are losing the balance here. I am secure in my job but does that mean I should care less for those who are less fortunate? The problem with politicians is they can't see past the next election. Do you have kids 50%? I do and I am concerned about what kind of future we are creating for them.

It was once called RUSSIA. Balance. Everyone equal. Everyone works and the government provides for everyone on an equal level.
Everyone stands in the bread line for hours to get his equal share of bread. Everyone had the same things and did the same things and made the same amount of money.
Some were privilaged such as olympic athletes and astronauts.

So you are saying you want everything to be on an equal basis. IF you feel like working harder you are not rewarded for that extra effort. Why put in that extra effort then. Exactly. They didnt.

People dont understand the medacare situation and the jobless and homeless.
If we were do to that, we would be a sociialist government.
We would be a stagnant country because nothing would get better. Why make something better when the person next to you is not putting in as much effort as you. He is getting his bread at the end of the week.

There is a reason people are jobless, and without medicare. Because they do not work for it.
It also goes to religion. Religion does not teach birth control. Religion focuses on big families and that promotes having 5 or 6 kids even though you can not support yourself.
So that out of work person is still having kids and collecting wellfare without working for it. Much like a socialistic government. That person still collects regardless of effort.
YOu tell me if that system would work. Use Russia as a foundation.

[markas214]

Berm........... I feel ya....... I was in California in 87 when there was a "correction" that will probably happen again..

Houses that were bought for $200,000 were only worth $125,000 after the rates went up............

So yes there is a problem as you have stated.........

but like so many other things.... there is always a correction....


and Mark........

Dude........... you are spouting as a "Socialist" is that what you believe.....

Me as an individual........... I get tired of paying $36,000 a year in taxes........ and i'm not rich.................

If i didn't provide a company for the 4 people that work for me......... they would still be making $65,000 a year instead of the $130,000 they make now..

So......... is it a good thing for me to have created this company??? or is it better that everyone have a job with the post office.??????

And you stated you have a secure Job............ dude........ it could be sold tomorrow......... you out on the street......

but then again.. you could get the 52 weeks of unemployment.......... If that's what makes you happy (security) good for ya............ we always need people like you........... to do the work..................

My job will be around as long as people continue to get sick or injured. My field is hurting and we make more each year. If you ever get hurt or have a heart attack in eastern Pa it could be me pushing compressions, shooting atropine and epi into your veins or giving you 300 joules of electricity to save your *ss. Try outsourcing that. As I said before I do better than most and work hard and do a lot of continuing education. I still believe in capitalism as it provides incentive for success and is the best system on the planet. I am far from being a socialist. The funny thing is when it comes to healtth care we joke around when people are without insurance or on welfare. We know who pays the bill in the end. You and I.

[spywizard]

Thanks.......... that tells alot of the why you are stating alot of what you believe.........

makes alot of sense now..

Just wanted to say.......... thanks.......

My oldest came to me when she was 12... said she wanted to be a Doc... I said great... the next day i took her to the hospital to sign up for the candy stripper program...

she was in it for 4 years...

she is now a Radiologist............ (sorry Tech) she has the degree though...

and loves it..

I tell people that your profession, Medical.... is the only one worth going to college for..

Thanks again.........

My job will be around as long as people continue to get sick or injured. My field is hurting and we make more each year. If you ever get hurt or have a heart attack in eastern Pa it could be me pushing compressions, shooting atropine and epi into your veins or giving you 300 joules of electricity to save your *ss. Try outsourcing that. As I said before I do better than most and work hard and do a lot of continuing education. I still believe in capitalism as it provides incentive for success and is the best system on the planet. I am far from being a socialist. The funny thing is when it comes to healtth care we joke around when people are without insurance or on welfare. We know who pays the bill in the end. You and I.

[markas214]

And I am sure this poor slob could have made something better of their lives than to run the register at walmart. I can think of the people at the walmart across the street. They could at one point decided they had ambition and done something else. But hey, this is about how terrible Bush is right? What people make of their lives is their own business. If you weren't happy with your life right now, get another degree or get one if you don't have one. Your earning power will be significantly greater with a college degree or masters if you already have a degree. Take the next step if you aren't happy with your income and want to provide more to your children.
http://www.myconsumerguide.com/unive...of_phoenix.htm

I took the next step at age 30 when the steel industry went bust. I have a degree and a secure job. The guys who were not as intelligent or in thier fifties didn't have the abilty to do that. I can very well understand anyone who is educated and in a good financial situation to vote Republican. What amuses me the most are all these uneducated southern and midwesterners who vote Republican on social issues when the real ambition of the party is to increase the wealth of those who already have it.

[tryingtogetbig]

There is a statistic somewhere that shows that people vote democrat through college, late 20's etc. Then after 30 when they start making money they all start voting Republican.

[tryingtogetbig]

I think you would be surprised at how the South's mentallity works...we are just kind of against the government supporting people with our tax money because they don't try as hard, minority, etc. Not so much about education...as those that are uneducated here still seem to vote democrat.

[50%Natural]

What amuses me the most are all these uneducated southern and midwesterners who vote Republican on social issues when the real ambition of the party is to increase the wealth of those who already have it.

if they were voting on that then they would be voting on econmoic issues, not social issues. Unlike the democratic party, the republican party doesn't push social issues as the forefront of their platforms. They main issues are economic prosperity and defense. The democratic party pushes social issues and the environment in some cases such as......well, lets not make it a thing about race but you should know **** well what. I am not against the democratic party for any other reason that that. I feel defense is a far more important issue to sink money into rather than worthless social programs.

[tryingtogetbig]

I agree. Im not familiar with the tax bracket for poor middle and rich. All I know is I will pay taxes to have a military to protect me and a nation that can import and export for profit.
China is about to kick our ass in every aspect. Business, military exporting, etc.

Basically with the new tax reform everyone is paying somewhere in the neighborhood of 3% less.

The arguement is that the rich got a bigger savings. Here is how people figure that:

3% of 50,000 = 1500
3% of 100,000 = 3000
3% of 1,000,000 = 30,000

So the person making 1mm a year just saved 30k and the person making 50k a year only saved 1500 dollars. So, the rich got the bigger tax break.

The rich still pay on a graduated scale. The more money you make, the higher percentage you pay. If you make over 100k, then you pay 35-38%. If you make 50k, you pay 25-28%.

So, you are penalized a higher percentage of your pay for making more money.

peace,

ttgb

[50%Natural]

I think you would be surprised at how the South's mentallity works...we are just kind of against the government supporting people with our tax money because they don't try as hard, minority, etc. Not so much about education...as those that are uneducated here still seem to vote democrat.

So true. It isn't a surprise the uneducated vote democrat because they know they will get more money if they do. They have been made to feel that way. Even though it doesn't happen now, I remember when welfare(a democratic party imposed program) would give more money to a mother if she had more children out of wedlock. What kind of sign is that sending? Stay stupid and have babies so you can get more money?

[tryingtogetbig]

Welfare recipients still receive more money for having more kids. The more kids...the more money....for the rest of their lives...Stuff like that is what people in the South don't comprahend.

peace,
ttgb

[markas214]

Welfare recipients still receive more money for having more kids. The more kids...the more money....for the rest of their lives...Stuff like that is what people in the South don't comprahend.

peace,
ttgb

There are limits on how many years able bodied people can stay on welfare. The big scam now is SSDI disability. Families coach their kids and you can literally have a family of seven collecting SSDI.
One more thing I haven't seen a reply to the illegal alien problem. My take is if there weren't people willing to employ them so they can earn bigger profits the Mexicans wouldn't be flooding across the border.

[spywizard]

Minnesota has welfare reform on going....

after 2 kids........... no additional payments........

I guess we just expect them to go hungry............. but they always get the government cheese...........

****nn............talk about putting on the weight...........

Welfare recipients still receive more money for having more kids. The more kids...the more money....for the rest of their lives...Stuff like that is what people in the South don't comprahend.

peace,
ttgb

[50%Natural]

One more thing I haven't seen a reply to the illegal alien problem. My take is if there weren't people willing to employ them so they can earn bigger profits the Mexicans wouldn't be flooding across the border.

I didn't see you post anything about that. I do believe our border policy is a joke. I use to work in a grocery store and i would see people who couldn't speak any english getting wic. It is a supplemental food program to help our certain people if you qualify. It burned me up because I knew these people were living off our taxes and for what? I know they do the jobs no one else will do but why do they all need to mouch off our government after getting here to work? It is b.s. that we spend millions each year to help illegal immigrants and their families. A pregnant woman can sneak over here and have her kid and then apply for aid. Rediculous.

[tryingtogetbig]

There are limits on how many years able bodied people can stay on welfare. The big scam now is SSDI disability. Families coach their kids and you can literally have a family of seven collecting SSDI.
One more thing I haven't seen a reply to the illegal alien problem. My take is if there weren't people willing to employ them so they can earn bigger profits the Mexicans wouldn't be flooding across the border.

That's a very tough one...and I truly don't know the answer. I don't like GB idea of letting them be legal just because they are already here. But like GB said when he announced this immigration plan..."what we have now is not working." In other words, it is broke, it needs to be fixed.

Now how to fix it is a whole different debate. The immigrants from down south have been here for a looonngg time. It's not a new problem...and it's not getting any better.

peace,

ttgb

[tryingtogetbig]

There are limits on how many years able bodied people can stay on welfare. The big scam now is SSDI disability. Families coach their kids and you can literally have a family of seven collecting SSDI

And so that you know where we (the republicans) are coming from...bro...that is a highly democrat type of funding program. No joke. That's why I get so sincere about what party affiliation I stand for.

peace,

ttgb

[50%Natural]

Anyone to bash president Bush's economic policies tonight?

[spywizard]

Yea........ I saved $22,000 last year on taxes i didn't have to pay...

think i'll go do my part in helping the economy....

nice down payment on a car..???

Ok...

maybe a BMW convertable/??? not another SUV... just trying to help the preservation of gas consumption...

I thought you had let this thread die............

Anyone to bash president Bush's economic policies tonight?

[50%Natural]

oh I did, but you never know, some one uneducated in economics/finance may want to catch on to this too...

[spywizard]

LMAO............

Ok..i'll leave the thread alone.........

Peace

oh I did, but you never know, some one uneducated in economics/finance may want to catch on to this too...

[QbHunter]

LMAO............

Ok..i'll leave the thread alone.........

Peace

there will be non of that...BUMP!

[bermich]

See spy. Or was it AD who told Q to bump up 100 old threads.

[QbHunter]

See spy. Or was it AD who told Q to bump up 100 old threads.

it was AD