View Poll Results: "Same sex marriage" What is your opinion?
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I support marriage
I support civil unions
I don't support either
I don't care either way
02-26-2004, 01:03 AM #1
"Same sex marriage" What is your opinion?
Which do you believe should happen? IMO, civil union, because I don't believe marriage is meant for same sex. Marriage is the union before God of two people, a man and a woman. In God's eyes homosexuality is wrong. Personally, I don't care what people do, because people are who they are. But marriage is different.
Bible passages on homosexuality:
Leviticus 18:22; 20:13
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Last edited by Symian; 02-26-2004 at 04:04 AM. Reason: Length
02-26-2004, 01:08 AM #2
There has to be separation of church and state.
Same sex partners are entitled to their legal rights. I don't like it...but it's only fair.
Check Leviticus 20:13
02-26-2004, 01:10 AM #3Originally Posted by Money Boss Hustla
02-26-2004, 01:11 AM #4Originally Posted by Symian
02-26-2004, 01:14 AM #5Originally Posted by Money Boss Hustla
Exactly my point. This has nothing to do with church, and marriage has everything to do with God. Marriage is an act before God, and if God denounces homosexuality, then what's the point? Just to have it on paper?
Last edited by Symian; 02-26-2004 at 04:11 AM.
02-26-2004, 01:24 AM #6
The definition of marriage is the debate. Law makers will have to define it very soon.
02-26-2004, 01:32 AM #7Originally Posted by Money Boss Hustla
02-26-2004, 01:34 AM #8
Marriage does not have anything to do with God. Marriage has everything to do with a legal definition. Separate things!
02-26-2004, 02:49 AM #9Originally Posted by Money Boss Hustla
Last edited by Symian; 02-26-2004 at 04:15 AM.
02-26-2004, 03:10 AM #10
Here is another good point, although not along the lines of mine:
Readers of the Bible's diverse sexual regulations — whether liberal or conservative — are and need be selective. The Old Testament allows married men to have sex with prostitutes, slaves and other unmarried women not under the protection of their fathers. It never condemns female homosexuality, nor does it condemn male-male sex aside from intercourse. The Bible's world of sexual mores is not ours. Anyone claiming to be advocating pure Biblical ethics has not taken a close enough look at them.
Last edited by Symian; 02-26-2004 at 04:15 AM.
02-26-2004, 04:10 AM #11Retired Vet
- Join Date
- Nov 2001
Personally I don't care about whatever church teachings are, or the niceties of law. Two queers getting married disgusts me and I personally feel it makes a mockery of my own marriage. What they do behind closed doors doesn't bother me what so ever, I can't see it and if its between two consenting adults fair enough. BUt Marriage, don't make me laugh.
02-26-2004, 05:32 AM #12
~ Whos cares let them do what they want, this way it will just stop a lot of bytching and moaning, unless is effects me directly i dont care~
02-26-2004, 05:53 AM #13
I may as well weigh on on this because I have a dog in this fight . . .
Since religious folks feel that "Marriage" is something that churches do which involves a deity, if it were up to me, I would rename everything the state governments do to "Civil Union" instead of "Marriage." Any couple could then have the protection of the government upon their affairs, including financial, inheritance, medical decisions when incapacitated, and etc.
Then, if the two folks wanted to have some sort of spiritual blessing put on their relationship, they can employ whatever church or preacher is willing to do what they want, and then eveyone should be happy.
The thing is, that there are folks out there who plain just don't like gay people (which is fine by me). They use Bible verses to justify their beleifs (again, which is fine by me), like Leviticus 20, which also calls for the death penalty for gays (which is fine by me, as well). IMHO, everyone has the right to their own opinion, but no one has the right to implement religious doctrine into what is supposed to be a secular system of government. In other words, just because the Bible says something is so, doesn't mean the US government has to make everyone follow its rules and requirements.
If Sabbath Breaking is bad (another crime for which the Bible requires the death penalty) doesn't mean we gotta have a law outlawing working on Sunday.
What it boils down to is this -- we have a secular government, and we have lots of religious citizens with as many different religious opinions as bellybuttons. If you start making religious laws to satisfy one religious group, the others are going to raise hell. To avoid religious conflicts (like what Europeans went through; wars between Protestants and Catholics; Imprisoning independant thinkers like Galileo; Burning people for Heresy), we've got a marvellous system of government where the secular government runs the military, builds roads, runs the Justice system, etc, without followng the dictates of either the Pope of Rome or Billy Graham of North Carolina, or Jerry Falwell of Assholeville, and Churches are free to preach whatever they want without having to please either George Bush or Teddy Kennedy.
First thing we need to do is preserve the independance of both institutions, both churches and governments. Right now, in European countries, they're combined to where each government funds its Official State Church. There's a few preachers in the Swedish church that are upset that the government is making them NOT preach on Sodom and Gomorrah, or say that homosexuality is wrong. But they have to abide by what the government says, because the preachers are all government employees. So, the current system isn't much good for those folks.
It used to be so that the church in Europe had the upper hand, like during the Inquisition . . . someone would tell the preacher that his neighbor was a heretic, then the preacher would have the king's representative grab the guy and tell him to "Confess." He wouldn't be told what he was accused of, and if he didn't tell them that he did what his neighbor said he did, they'd torture him. Meanwhile, the poor schmuck would be blabbing a long list of things he did, hoping to luck out and match what he was accused of. If he didn't luck out, he'd be punished, his property would be confiscated and divided between the King and the Church (which is why the church supported this insanity), and that would be that.
So . . . no, we don't want that madness in this country, so we don't make things like Heresy or Sodomy illegal just because it's against the Bible. The folks who wrote the Constitution were aware of the problems the Europeans had, and were determined to avoid them. Learning from their mistakes is why they came up with the "Bill Of Rights" (the first few Amendments to the Constitution); it's how come the gov't has to tell us what crime we are being charged with, it's why "cruel and unusual punishment" is not allowed, and lots more.
But back to the original topic . . . gay couples have pretty much the same legal concerns with their relationships that straight couples do . . . inheritance, medical decisions, property ownership, etc. Unless there is a compelling reason why gays should not have the same legal protections extended to them as straights have (other than reasons based in religious principles), gays should have the same rights as every one else.
IMHO, the gov't should use the term "Civil union" for what it does to recognize coupleship, churches can use the term "Marriage" for what they do. Seems to me to be the way to go. Problem here is to get all 50 states to agree to this . . . some (like Alabama) ain't gonna without a fight. So, because of this, some gays are holding out for full "Marriage" recognition. Whatever. As far as I'm concerned, I don't care what it's called, just so long as everyone gets the same recognition from the government.
I guess this isn't really a rant . . . but is sure is long . . .
Good thing is that it's over . . .
02-26-2004, 06:53 AM #14
TOCK WINS! HE TYPED MOST!
Ah, i really don't care what they do...It's wrong in Gods eyes, and I don't support it..But it's their business....let them die.
02-26-2004, 07:09 AM #15Originally Posted by hoss827
I did my best to keep it short . . .
Oh well . . .
02-26-2004, 07:40 AM #16
I personally feel this matter disgusts me also, sheot after this whats next on the liberal agenda. Yes the seperation between church and state is sometimes a fine line but in my little cro-magnon mind that sheot isnt natural. Totally against it.
02-26-2004, 07:41 AM #17
Although it is against my religion (Catholic) ...I do feel that the older I get the more that my interpretations of the bible have changed as well.....If two human beings find each other and want to spend the rest of their lives together.......................thats wonderful!!!
02-26-2004, 07:42 AM #18
I'm not a religious person at all but was brought up in a Catholic home. I think a lot of what the Catholic religion preaches is hypocritical and I could care less what the bible states. Who is the goverment, church, or the people to say what is right or wrong....... Let people live their lives the way the want to and start worrying about yourself instead of what othere's are doing.
02-26-2004, 07:43 AM #19
Also I am not a homophobe, so any hetro bashing direct it at me cause I don't give a crap. Just sticking up for what I believe.
02-26-2004, 08:00 AM #20
You can quote all the bible passages you want but in reality it is just a book of beliefs that people created to give structure to ones life. "God" or "Religion" was used and has been used as a scare tactic for ages so people wouldn't act out. i wsa born and raised a Catholic and I even went to catholic schools for 12 years. I am not bashing nobodys religious beliefs and ifyou believe in a higher power, than thats fine and dandy! If gays choose to get married, who really cares? let people be people... They pay taxes just like you and I...whos to say that they cant raise a child succesfully?.. there are a ton of hetero people who cant provide **** for childen, to say that it would be a wrong enviroment for childs upbringing is ridiculas(sp?) Whos to say te bible is the almighty word? What about buda? what about all the other religions in the world, so are they liars also?? Is there religion or "God" a fake??
same sex marriage does nothing to the effects of what a man and women can be. It makes no mockery of your marriage. Thats like saying since your not Catholic and you're a Johova Witness your making a mockery out of my beliefs because your not like me.
Whether you support it or not, unless it directly comes into your household and effects your daily life or physically effects you than just keep on going about your business or continue to live in the manner that you have been.
just my .02
02-26-2004, 08:05 AM #21Originally Posted by abstrack
02-26-2004, 08:08 AM #22Originally Posted by TheMudMan
02-26-2004, 08:19 AM #23Originally Posted by TheMudMan
02-26-2004, 08:21 AM #24
Gay marraige means they will be able to adopt kids and raise them as they see fit.
Here is my problem with men adopting boys. I have a son who is 2. When he gets older I assume that he will be curious as all kids are. If the next door neighbors kid is father by gays, he more than likely will be curious about men. Now my son goes to play in the field and the little neighbor boy comes over asking to play doctor or show me and I will show you. This is usualy between boys and girls but because thats all the little neighbor boy has ever seen, my son has now been subjected to homosexuality. Needless to say I go kill the parents.
02-26-2004, 08:23 AM #25Originally Posted by mart651
02-26-2004, 08:29 AM #26
I think Tock and Mud hit it well for me.
Government regulation should deem all (whether homo or hetero) as civil unions, and churches can use the term "marriage." If your religion doesn't believe in homosexuality, then you don't have to marry them. If you support it, then you can do that...
either way, they shouldn't be denied those basic rights of unions...
02-26-2004, 08:29 AM #27Originally Posted by mass junkie
02-26-2004, 08:34 AM #28Originally Posted by mart651
Right!!!! the little neighbor boy comes over and wants to play doctor or a little show and tell, I also suppose the the gay couple just openly engages in all forms of sexual contact in front of their child because "gays do that" There is no way that they would be respectfull, have values,morals and be mature understanding people. Also for them to have "some" sense to know that there is a child around. " There's little Kyle! lets go have sex by him so he can act like us and subject all the other kids to homosexuality"
Did the little neighbor boy come ask you if you wanted to play doctor and why would he be coming over to play with you or do alittle show and tell Since you little boy is already in the field playing...Are you keeping candy in your front pocket these days
Geeze.. you would think those savage gay people would learn how to act around children let alone adults with their open sex act policy
Last edited by abstrack; 02-26-2004 at 08:40 AM.
02-26-2004, 08:39 AM #29
Ok Abstrak. I was serious as a mother ****er if you could not tell.
I can see your humor but was not impressed. This is a subject that I will step out of because I feel so strongly about it.
Originally Posted by abstrack
02-26-2004, 08:39 AM #30Originally Posted by abstrack
02-26-2004, 08:46 AM #31
Serious or not..Originally Posted by mart651
That was the most ridiculas scenario I have ever herd in regards to same sex marriage. How about men that beat women and have children?
I suppose we must kill them to because their children are subjected to violence and they come over to play with your kids also and beat up your kid for no reason. Why not go over and kill them to?
How about parents that do drugs in front of their children? I suppose we just go kill those parents also and not allow them to marry since their children like to come over to other peoples house and subject other poples kids to doing drugs.
02-26-2004, 08:47 AM #32
I know a lot of heterosexual couples that shouldn't be parents......... Because your gay doesn't mean you are a petaphile (sp) or would be a bad role model for a child. There are too many children that have to live in foster homes or live in dysfunctional homes. There are tons of gay couples that would make great parents and role models for these kids.
02-26-2004, 08:49 AM #33
"Hey!, here comes little Johnny to play and he has his peace pipe with him." "i hope he didnt bring his glass pipe and bag of fun rocks this time."
02-26-2004, 08:49 AM #34
Great Mud. Let your kids play with them then. Because mine will not.
Originally Posted by TheMudMan
02-26-2004, 08:52 AM #35
You just put up some senarios that hit close to home.
Yes we should kill the parents that beat there spouse in front of their children. Lord knows I would have turned out a little calmer if someone would have done me that favor when i was a kid.
Originally Posted by abstrack
02-26-2004, 08:53 AM #36
We live in the land of the free. Not the land of the free if you are a heterosexual and believe in God. I don’t like it, don’t agree with it but who am I to tell a segment of our population what to do. I don’t think it makes a mockery of my marriage and I don’t give a **** if Billy Bob wants to marry Sam. Give the homos the same rights as any other group in America, land of the free, each man created equal.
02-26-2004, 08:56 AM #37
I dont really care if gay/lesbians get married, marrige isnt a big deal for me anyway, its nothing i will ever do. Homosexualls adopting kids on the other hand is wrong!! Even if they are fit parents the kids life will be ****ed up growing up, it will get bullied every single day.
But just cause it grows up with two gay parents dosent mean it will turn gay mart, you are totally wrong there.
02-26-2004, 08:59 AM #38
Just ask " What would John Wayne think"...if he wouldnt agree...dont let it happen in the US!
02-26-2004, 09:00 AM #39Originally Posted by mart651
02-26-2004, 09:01 AM #40
Not a %100 of the time but they have a lot better chance than other kids.
I have had this conversation with a gay couple at a party about a month ago and both of them agreed with me about the adopting thing.Now they both bashed me pretty hard about the marriage and that was ok. These two guys are from Cali and have been together for 18 yrs. I respected them and held nothing against them. So no guys I don't hate gay people. I just want my child to be hetro.
Originally Posted by palme
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