Thread: Do you believe this?
03-14-2004, 11:58 PM #1
Do you believe this?
I was reading a paper by a social philosopher that stated the downfall of the United States will come when too many imigrants with alterior motives are allowed into the US and given the vote. It stated that the new voters will be contrary to classically american politics, and will result in the downfall of America in a traditional sense. Do you believe this? I just want to see what everyone thinks.
03-15-2004, 04:01 AM #2alevok Guest
First generation immigrants may vote against typical American politics but 2nd and 3rd and so on generations would be highly Americanized and since they are born in USA they will go with the flow.
After all everyone in US is an immigrant one way or another, accept Native Americans.
03-15-2004, 04:52 AM #3
People have been saying that since the 1800's..which is why Nationality Quotas were introduced..however, your sumation is correct...also leading to the downfall is the acceptance of socio-inferior sub-cultures, which leads to watered down genetics. I did my senior thesis on this very topic.
03-15-2004, 07:11 AM #4
Try living in Canada where you can see it happening. Every ethnicity is getting more and more politically powerful. They learn how to exploit the gov't at its own game.
03-15-2004, 07:15 AM #5
I had a GF from Richmond..she used to call Vancouver, "Hong couver"..
03-15-2004, 07:17 AM #6
A prof was fired from UBC from calling immigration the "Asian Invasion".
03-15-2004, 08:07 AM #7Originally Posted by animal-inside
03-15-2004, 08:22 AM #8
Much of the problem lies in their lack of assimilation. When immigrants came in through Ellis Island, there was an understanding that they would adopt the values and customs of the US. Not only that, they were expected to be proficient in speaking, reading, and writing English. "They" call it multiculturalism, I call it factionalism. Choosing ones own cultural values over those of the Union is excluding oneself from the greater majority. Contributing part of the values that one brings from their country of origin can do only good, it makes us diverse. Refusing to adopt the values and customs of America is what will rip us apart. E Pluribus Unum.
Don't you hate it when you stop at an ATM and it asks what language you would like the menue in? Let me see, how about the language printed on the ****ing money?
03-15-2004, 08:36 AM #9
My folks were immigrants...each kept doing their thing..but assismilated to a degree..my father didnt expect Germany in the US..my mother didnt expect Sicily either..no tacky flags hung from the rear view mirrors of the family car...another problem is that too many people just cannot accept that they are Americans...not whatever 8xgreat grandpappy was when he walked off the boat..It is bound to happen..it has happened in most corners of the world...history repeats itself.
03-15-2004, 08:37 AM #10
inheritmylife.... I totally agree.. when you immagrate to a country your are acknowledging and accpeting certains things such as you will learn the new culture and respect it. This includes language, gorvnment, acceptable and unacceptable things (eating dogs here is a no no.. eating beef in India is a no no) etc......
03-15-2004, 08:40 AM #11
Nothing pisses me off when I see immagrants disrespecting my Country. Especially the children of immagrants, they just don't know how good this country is. if you don't liek it here and respect it, get the **** out.. this includes hanging a flag other then our countires in your window. Its different if you hang another countries flag along side ours. But to hang a portuggesse flag and not a Canadian one? what dose that say?
03-15-2004, 08:52 AM #12
We dont even pledge allegiance in most schools anymore. The ACLU took issue with some of the wording. I don't have a problem with change, but in that case, the ACLU was not representing the people for whom they were organized to protect. They were looking out for the interests of a crying-ass-bitching few. It is not the responsibility of the country at large to change the way we have lived for hundreds of years in order to suit the needs of new citizens. They are obligated to change for us.
The good thing is most immigrants are accepting. The United States Marine Corps is nearly 25% hispanic. The Marines! These people have been in the country a generation or less and join an organization where you get shot at for the flag. Those are people I am glad to have as Americans. For sure they are better than some punk-bitch who is jobless and spends the money he makes selling crack to buy bling-bling and dubs.
03-15-2004, 09:43 AM #13
I live in winnipeg , Canada, and can tell you this city has has sooo many immigrants its unreal. Asian gangs sell crack all over. yet the goverment is so scared to sound "racist" they just allow more and more and more. Most of these people would not stop to piss on me if i was on fire. I dont care if i sound racist
If wanting to have my own culture and ways preserved makes me one, then yes im RACIST.
03-15-2004, 09:45 AM #14Originally Posted by inheritmylife
03-15-2004, 09:47 AM #15
the horrible thing is if a Canadian or American went to another country and they thought we were posing a TINY threat to their culture we'd be out on our asses
03-15-2004, 09:58 AM #16LORDBLiTZ GuestOriginally Posted by BamaSlamma
The asian and east indian gangs are getting out of hand here.
03-15-2004, 10:36 AM #17
I don't believe that the immigration problem alone will lead too the downfall of this country but it's a complex deal. Taking away the freedoms that this country was founded on, the decine in education, the middle class, jobs being taken out of this country for a cheaper product ( our fault for being so materialistic ), and many other things. But like all great civilizations they must all eventually fall. Hence the Romans, Greeks etc. etc. The wheels are already in motion.
03-15-2004, 02:53 PM #18
Chalmers Johnson recently just put out a book recentlybasically outlining the fall of the american empire. Very smart guy, saw him on c-span but haven't read the book yet, he certainly made very good points.
03-16-2004, 02:12 PM #19
Bump. Want to hear what other people have to say.
03-16-2004, 03:43 PM #20Originally Posted by BamaSlamma
03-16-2004, 05:09 PM #21
I would agree that immigration really needs to be controlled. At return to only admitting those with special skills would be beneficial, but at the same time we need to cultivate the Americans that are already here.
I work in the middle of Manhattan, so I see every type of person imaginable. Some of the people coming over here are actual decent people. Looking to live what we had used to call the American dream. The dream used to be a lot more simple than now. Now the dream has transformed into a more individualistic material idea, instead of having a family that will be more successful, happy, and secure than previous generations.
A short story about something I personally encountered. In the midtown area of Manhattan there are some bogue clothes shops. They either obtain or produce 'name brands' and sell to various people. The area itself is very small and really blemishes an otherwise safe and decent area of the city. Anyways, there are certain people there, vendors, that sell these items illegally under false business pretenses. Either trademark counterfitting or variosu other ways of using the names people want to make money.
So, being that I am employed to help stop this, we check out some of these people on occasion. This usually results in a closing of the shop, interviewing the vendors, etc. Upon 'talking' to some of these people, who are mostly here illegally, it turns out that most are working the system for benefits....
Some people are down on their luck, and maybe they need help. Out of the five people we talked to...who all had benefits cards....the people had over $60,000 dollars in cash on their person. This is the norm. They make this money illegally, while claming hardship, and some send cash back to their countries. In this case Lebanon.
So in summary, we are having people come here, exploit our way of life, and send money to countries that may be funding terrorists to harm us. I really think that we need tougher immigration investigation as well as general enforcement. Our way of life may be forced to change because of our generousity and ignorance.
Sorry...long but I needed to vent, one of those guys I listed above had over $30,000 dollars on him, which disgusted me. I'm hardworking and couldn't imagine having that kinda of cash, even less that in a bank account.
03-16-2004, 06:55 PM #22
Yes this is true. Multiculturalism is going to happen and your culture is going to be wiped out. Run for the hills you freaking pussies!!!!!!!
The US has no culture, it embraces them all and in the future, I predict your great, great grankids will speak spanglish. Along with the rest of the world. Those hispanics are breeding like rabbits. Who cares if your kids know who Thomas Paine is? Hell, they don't know who Nat Turner is nor Ted Bundy? Nor Crispus Attucs. Nope, your "culture" glorifies who it wants and hides those that make you look like you have a bad name or something. Its why the crusades aren't talked about in school. There are reasons why I laugh when I find out that arabs can claim to be white on the census "legally". With Al Qaeda and all, it confirms my reasoning that one of the main reasons monotheistic religions beat out the polythesistic that had magic and demons they could summon is because of crazy white men.
Yup, to make it even worse ... your genetics will be watered down with the best of the best. So although you great great great grandkids won't be white, black, hispanic, or anything intelligible they will be nothing but "human beings with shaded skin". What does this mean? Well, unlike the caucasians that have to work so hard to get gains worth a crap, they'll be like the negroes that can grow muscle and eat crap. Yup, don't you want that for your shaded skin progeny? So yeah, watered down genetics is from a viewpoint. They'll be watered down because no sickle cell (for the black people), no osteoporosis (for the white people with their lack of bone density), and the other problems that come with being of another color.
Will this cause the decline of the great American empire? Who knows? I doubt it but I do know that with globalism, well, although the US is great when you want to bring the rest of the world up to an acceptable status, your status is going to go down and ... you'll be poorer than you are. Thats just a viewpoint people are going to have to get over.
The need of the many far outweigh the need of the few.
So you can either disagree with President Bush and think isolationism is a good thing or get used to it and realize that yup, the country is going to go to heck for a while until the rest of the world can catch up. Get over it ... global world now. Oh yeah, about immigration ... if you want to control it, outsource more. Give the people that keep coming over here good reasons to stay home. :-) Restriction policies won't work and neither will anarchy.
03-16-2004, 07:56 PM #23Originally Posted by BamaSlamma
Care to explain?
03-16-2004, 09:14 PM #24
I'm still waiting for a response.
03-16-2004, 09:16 PM #25Originally Posted by BamaSlamma
03-17-2004, 01:12 AM #26Retired Vet
- Join Date
- Nov 2001
Carlos I'm concerned about the same thing Bama is talking about. For instance in the last five yrs Irland has been suffering an influx of refugees from Eastern Europe and Nigeria. Not only are these people bringing is HIV, TB and a host of other diseases which we don't want here, when they start breeding with (and its started) the lower working class sluts here our pure Celtic genes will be diluted. Little Nigerian babies with red hair and freckles are going to look freaky, lol..
You people in the USA are lucky, you can probably absorb these people coming into your country. But we've a population of only 3.5 million with probably half that saying into the tax system so we can't absorb this influx of sprongers.
03-17-2004, 01:17 AM #27
Holy sh1t! Me and bouncer finally touch base 100% on a subject.
03-17-2004, 01:23 AM #28Originally Posted by bdtr
03-17-2004, 06:59 AM #29Originally Posted by BOUNCER
Obviously you don't believe in race mixing. I've experienced first hand some of your other beliefs so this doesn't surprise me.
03-17-2004, 10:57 AM #30
M****n buddy, I think I'm gonna puke. I can understand the argument from a 'we don't want diseased immigrants' point of view, but from 'Diluting Celtic genes'? My god, you can't be serious. Although I do agree with the part about a population only being able to absorb a certain number of immigrants, its from a cultural and economic standpoint, not from this 'watering down of genetics'.
Originally Posted by BOUNCER
03-17-2004, 10:00 PM #31
With regards to the broad subject matter of this thread, I'd like to add the following. Immigration, particularly into stable nations with a high standard of living, is almost necessarily going to be very polarized. The reason? Most of those immigrating into such a nation are at one of two very polarized spectrums. On one extreme, are the perpetually destitute drawn to an often exaggerated and ill-conceived "myth" of prosperity. On the other are the ambitious and successful who feel that they and their families have exceeded the capacity of their native land's ability to either reward their work or provide for additional growth of whatever capacity they endeavor to fulfill (political, educational, economic, etc). The vast majority of Mexican immigrations into America embody the former while the vast majority of Korean immigrants tend to emblematize the latter. Quite simply, "middle of the road" citizens of any nation save for the most tragically destitute, rarely have a motivation to immigrate. As a result, and I'm reducing this to such a simple degree as to be laughable (though it illustrates a point), we (speaking of the U.S., but it applies to any prosperous nation) rarely if ever see anything but the best and the worst of what other nations have to offer. As a result, people tend to see, hear and perceive either staggering success stories or the most tragic of horror stories. Attitudes concerning immigration reflect this; they are rarely ambivalent or apathetic and normally enthusiastically on one side or the other. We see this both in life as well as this thread.
Now, with regards to a more specific issue that i suspect is going to be a brush fire by tomorrow morning, I have to admit to being genuinely taken aback and, more truthfully, absolutely shocked by a theme and specific comment above indicating a desire for "pure genes" (after god/allah/zeus et al, i imagine this term is the source of most of the organized murder in our history). In fact, as a sidenote, Michael Ghiglieri has written a book (The Dark Side of Man) that track some early biological "advantages" of this distinction among men. To get back on track, however, for the first time in my AR tenure, I'm a bit unsure how to respond to something. I don't want to turn this into my treatise on the subject, but will say that there was a time when this would have been among the *last* place I would have expected to hear such drivel. I do sincerely hope I'm missing sarcasm or attributing a view or two erroneously, but i've been staring at this thread for some time hoping to see such a thing and have not.
03-17-2004, 10:16 PM #32
I too, have opened up this thread several times and but stared blankly at it, not being sure exactly how to respond. I've made numerous comebacks to this board after taking elongated hiatus in order to remove the traces of racism that seem to plague it. I've failed every time. In real life, I encounter racism, ignorance, and bigotry daily. I hope to escape it in the presence of the educated, but I do not. I hope to escape it in the presence of youth, but I do not. I hope to escape it in the ranks of those I care for, but I do not. It's an ever present colliquality that i can not even begin to come to grips with at times. Daily I open up threads in this forum, and daily I am disappointed. The racism is there, and sometimes its subtlety deludes others, and sometimes it does not. There is no possible way what Bouncer said can be construed as anything but blatant racism. I am not referring to economics, but to the insistence that black immigration, among others, will dilute pure Celtic genes. As was stated above, replace "Celtic" with "Aryan", and there is little else that can be said.
Last edited by rambo; 03-17-2004 at 10:27 PM.
03-17-2004, 10:37 PM #33
yeah....I think that I will try and change the subject...
To my Canadian friends to the north...I have had many converstations with several Canadians here on AR regarding gun control. I don't want to start a whole new arguement regarding such, but considering some of the enlightenment several of you shared regarding gangs, drug dealers, etc., that is becoming more of a concern in recent years, does it concern any of you that possessing a firearm has become so difficult in Canada?
Crack users end up with no regard for human life, much less personal property. Being able to protect one's family, property and self seems to be at a disadvantage if the government has limited its citizens on how they can choose to protect themselves.
Just curious. Sorry to hear about some of the problems going on up in Canada. I truly hope it all is nipped in the butt before getting any worse.
03-17-2004, 11:39 PM #34
People base their lives off of exploiting the generosity of the US. I wonder how long til we go the Starship Troopers route.
"The Supreme force in all of the world and beyond is violence."
03-18-2004, 12:02 AM #35Anabolic Member
Originally Posted by Carlos_EOriginally Posted by Carlos_E
- Join Date
- May 2002
I was definitely repulsed by the anti-race mixing slant. I usually don't bother responding to ranting and raving threads like this one, especially when it comes to racial issues because people don't really want to discuss or dissect ideas or look for solutions. They just want to spew misguided, firmly entrenched hatred or disgust or intolerance.
I'm not going to grace the "watered down gene pool" posts with a formal response because the statements made were excessively broad and smack of ignorance.
Here’s my response to parts of this thread:
(I could probably expand this to world politics, but I'm going to stick only to America for relative brevity):
America has made a decision to open its doors to many cultures without being pro-active in trying to project and to deal with problems that our open boarders can cause. Our culture is steeped in deeply seeded negative beliefs and negative assumptions about foreign cultures, races and practices that are different from the average WASP American. Our media perpetuates these negative beliefs--actually the American culture perpetuates these beliefs. It's no wonder that an immigrant of a darker skin--who cannot just lose an accent and blend in and is constantly EXPECTED to fail--can end up lashing out at America after being lured in by an American Dream and then harshly and openly rejected for things s/he cannot control.
For the people who constantly receive both overt and covert reassurances that they can and are expected to achieve, its a difficult task to truly see and understand what effect the American culture can have on a person's psyche who does not receive the same obvious and subliminal encouragement, but who still wants to succeed. There lies before the immigrant who wants to rise above his current socio-economic status an obstacle course presented by his/her community (in America), which is often already crippled by a deeply ingrained self-hatred and expectancy to fail. (I'm being terribly simplistic for brevity). It is this self -hatred and expectancy, perpetuated by American culture that creates a vicious cycle that defeats minorities and immigrants again and again.
We Americans open our boarders and invite people in with an naive expectancy that the immigrants will assimilate, and grow. This is an expectancy based on both an older version of America and an assumption that full assimilation can occur. But if you’re dark, you can NEVER fully "assimilate" in a culture that is led by those who don't look like you, don't identify with you, and EXPECT you to fail.
What American needs to do to solve this problem is to focus on ways of helping our current damaged communities and our new immigrants to established well functioning livelihoods in America, without just “throwing money at a problem.” The welfare system is antiquated. It’s based on another old assumption—that you can give someone a bit of money to get started in America, and the rest will take care of itself. For years America has thrown money at disadvantaged people and told them to “pull themselves up by their boot straps and be successful.” This does NOT work. We need to look at more involved ways of helping these people—via educating the disadvantaged AND the advantaged. Too long we’ve incorrectly assumed that it is only the disadvantaged who are damaged and need help. The advantaged in America too are damaged and are very much a part of the problems and ideas, which perpetuate poverty, intolerance and ignorance in America. If we ever expect America to keep growing and advancing then we need to include everyone (to various degrees) in social programs that will help Americans face their prejudices and false assumptions. If we cannot do this, then we need to close our boarders and remove ourselves from the global market. But, we cannot be separtists.
Last edited by BASK8KACE; 03-18-2004 at 12:04 AM.
03-18-2004, 12:03 AM #36
When in doubt, blame Canada
03-18-2004, 12:26 AM #37Anabolic Member
Originally Posted by pumped99
- Join Date
- May 2002
I think what your social philosopher proposed is possible, especially if the American culture continues to be intolerant and prejudiced at the highest levels of American power (such as G.W. Bush, GOP, and "the old boy network"). If the intolerance continues, the American culture will be looked at by the rest of the world as one to be subverted, ignored or irreparably weakened. The quietest way to fatally wound America is to slowly create the damage within, accessed through America's open boarders.
BTW, whose writings did you read that sparked this discussion?
03-18-2004, 12:43 AM #38Originally Posted by animal-inside
03-18-2004, 08:09 AM #39Originally Posted by LilVito469
I'm not being one of those "If you don't like it then get out" people. What would happen if I moved my family to portugal and just said and did everything you just mentioned but in reverse? I wouldn't last long.
Seriously, I believe there is a difference between freedom of speech and flat out allowing people to be anti-american.
Be proud of your heritage....be prouder that you are an American.
Last edited by tryingtogetbig; 03-18-2004 at 08:18 AM.
03-18-2004, 08:17 AM #40
my stand, you come to my country, be thankful we let you in 1, and secondly assimilate or go home
with respect to america falling, yes indeed it will, historically, all empires fall.. just a matter of time
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