View Poll Results: How do you feel about labor unions
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Thread: Labor Unions
03-18-2004, 08:38 AM #1
Just wanted to know how all of you feel about labor unions.
i for one am in strong support for it. i actually serve as a union steward for our firefighters union.
03-18-2004, 08:44 AM #2
they suck, you can be a lazy SOB and still keep your job cause you have the union backing ya. my dads been in one his whole life and i honestly say that if it wasnt for his union he would have been canned a very long time ago. his job isnt hard, and they could have hired a younger cheaper worker to take over.
i know what you guys are saying why would you want that for your dad. well the case with my dad is that he became so dependant on the union he forgets what the real world is like, he considers his job super hard while most of us here would consider it mindless. and because of the safety of the union he has become the type of person that always relies on someone else to take care of "it" what ever it may be at the time. be it his bills, car, job, drinking problem, ect. i for one hate unions and think that most of them will be gone in a few years. they are a old way of thinking and will soon be put to the past!
a person should be paid what they are worth, and because of unions they wont be. you will have lazy SOB's riding the system barely doing what they should be doing getting paid there wage, then you have a hard worker that see the other lazy SOB's and he feels like he is being used. Unions are a place that turns a good worker to a sh-tty worker because of what he see's the other lazy SOB's get away with.
the only people getting rich off of the unions are the people running the unions and thats about it
Last edited by jcstomper; 03-18-2004 at 08:48 AM.
03-18-2004, 08:47 AM #3Originally Posted by Bigbowboski
03-18-2004, 08:48 AM #4
I am involved directly with the I.A.F.F. ( International Association of Fire Fighters ), and they have helped some of our fellow brother in some critical times, along with fighting with cities and townships on contract negotiations.
03-18-2004, 09:07 AM #5
They had a use until mid-1900's..after that..they are just full of folks who want to be paid for halfassed work..or for no work at all.
03-18-2004, 09:09 AM #6
I support unions, it's my belief that there is strength in numbers.. I hear stories about lazy ass bozos that don't work an 8 hour day, let alone a 6 hour day and they are union.. That sh!t makes me sick, some how i'm not surprised.. You can say the same thing about non-union workers if you ask me.. I do however agree with the organized union idea, and I believe they pull the best wages and benefits because the bros that are union, are some of the best at their trades.. I disagree with some ideas, union/non-union entrances at sites, some union bros have some crazy egos to say the least, little sh!t like that.. I think it's important for trade workers to have some sort backing, especially when trying to bid on big commercial and industrial jobs..
I think unions are manditory to say the least.. JCStomper, i have to disagree with you about who's getting rich working in the unions, my best friend is a union pipefitter apprentice, he earns his money, and he makes close to 100,000 a year.. Not even a journeyman yet.. Thats not rich, thats defintley well off though - very liveable wage..
03-18-2004, 09:12 AM #7Originally Posted by jcstomper
wel the certainly is a mouthfull. But i guess when you set back and watch and are not directly involved with a labor union it can certainly perseve itself as you have described.
1st off yes it is job security,but that doesnt mean you cant be fired.
2nd Unions promote U.S labor and not outside foreign countries which is why alot of business have disapeared.
3rd. Unions support your job and your job only. This is spelled out in the contract or whatever. They promote jobs. Also if your job requirment is forklift operator,and a manager comes over gets you off the fork lift,thats considered taking someones job. the managers job is to manage. I know this sounds like being lazy but the steel workers union done some work to one of our fire houses. they left all of there stick numbs on the ground and said someone will be back to pick them up. When asked why dont you pick them up,they replied its not my job its someone elses. So if this is being lazy i can really shock you with some stories. Its not ,its simply allowing someone to have a job.
03-18-2004, 09:14 AM #8
Oh yea and one more thing.. the unions are not going anywhere. In the IAFF alone "International Association of Firefighters" There is 275,00 strong union members and growing.
So wishful thinking
03-18-2004, 09:15 AM #9
haha, Ironworkers are the funniest to be around.. Thats funny you mentioned it..
03-18-2004, 09:19 AM #10Originally Posted by monster.
yes, i agree and disagree with somethings as well, but you cant hae your cake and eat it to. origized labor is the way to go. I have a friend in a small fire dept. that is fixing to retire. he gets a certain amount for retirement and then has to pay for his insurrance which will take 80 perent of his retirment. he has to work another job. I dont know about you but this sucks after 30 years in the fire service and he has to work another job again. Now they recently organized into the IAFF but his retirement was not grandfathered,but all the other firefighters have their insurance paid when they retire. Big benifit!!!
03-18-2004, 01:23 PM #11Originally Posted by Bigbowboski
Originally Posted by Bigbowboski
Originally Posted by Bigbowboski
your whole paragraph supports my thoughts on Unions being for lazy ass idiots that dont really wanna work
Last edited by jcstomper; 03-18-2004 at 04:28 PM.
03-18-2004, 01:26 PM #12Originally Posted by monster.
03-18-2004, 01:29 PM #13
union members are just givin the mafia losers a reason to not work even more.
03-18-2004, 01:32 PM #14
perfect example of a union ruining it for everyone. MTV was supposed to have a real world in philly but the unions chased them out. yep, they didn't use a union carpenter and the unions totally used their connections to f-ck them. how about that BS? that could have brought alot of money to this city but because the unions are a bunch of idiots they ruined it. pure fact, read the link below. yeah you guys love unions, lol, they are a bunch of over paid idiots. its like a bunch of pussies that need to form a gang to be tough cause they cant do it themselves
03-18-2004, 01:44 PM #15
I think Unions were originally a great idea, and are still needed in many situations. However, many of them are using the power they have gained unfairly by charging specific required dues that go to political candidates that their members may not support, and trying to create a monopoly in certain industries among the members of their union.
03-18-2004, 01:45 PM #16AR-Hall of Famer / Retired
- Join Date
- Aug 2001
- Wherever necessary
I would like to see a specific accounting of 2 things:
the amount of money used from union dues to support left wing liberal political causes
the exact earnings of upper union officials who generally make more than CEOs of major corporations - also from the dues of thier members
03-18-2004, 01:47 PM #17Originally Posted by CYCLEON
03-18-2004, 01:58 PM #18
unions eliminate compatition.. with out compatition what do we have.. ?
03-18-2004, 02:02 PM #19Originally Posted by CYCLEON
Just as big oil, pharmaceuticals, etc. give to the GOP. I remind you Kenneth Lay remains free, clean air and water standards as well as prosecutions for polluters have declined, and on and on for corporations that donate to the GOP. Protecting worker safety, job security, health care, standard of living for workers is a left wing liberal issue? Perhaps all the blue collar Republicans are willing to work for minimum wage for skilled labor such as masonary, electrical, carpentry, etc. so their company owner can keep all of the profit for himself?
Originally Posted by CYCLEON
03-18-2004, 02:07 PM #20AR-Hall of Famer / Retired
- Join Date
- Aug 2001
- Wherever necessary
I am simply saying I am tired of hearing such hypocracy from union leaders speaking for their hard working blue collar workers making 40K while they (leaders) are making 500K+ and using union funds like a piggy bank - secondly they are supporting causes that VERY FEW union members (usually very salt of the earth types) would support - very radical leftist causes.
Moreover that is one of the cases where a CEO stole - How many cases do we have where UNion leaders have stolen MILLIONs of dues money or misued them - but they dont get near the press - but the cases are MUCH higher
I certainly have no problem with workers sharing in the spoils when a company does well and collective barganing can help balance the power between management and labor - but power corrupts and I have not seen any good cases of late where labor is helping the American worker - mostly giving more reason for companies to ship that job off to India where they dont have to deal with it
03-18-2004, 05:23 PM #21
Oh yea and for any of those who have not actually been a member of any labor union, where do you get your info from?. What you here from the media and see on T.V,and all the hoffa stories, are not true. I know this is all opinions, i have mone, You have yours. But i speak from facts.I know 1 thing is for certain. My job is alot better now because of it. My job is safer now because of it. My pay is better now because of it,my benifts are better becasue of it, and my union dues are 12.50 a pay check. And i am a 7 year firefighter making 48,762.67 yearly working 10 days a month
03-18-2004, 05:25 PM #22Originally Posted by jcstomper
Good for the unions, I hate that you lost money,but if they dont want to support american workers then to hell with them. IMO
03-18-2004, 06:22 PM #23Originally Posted by Bigbowboski
they didnt have foreign workers doing the work they had smaller business that would do it for less then the over paid unions wanted, its as simple as that. exactly supporting my theory of unions being one of the reason for our sh-tty economy. the are over paid for underworking its as simple as that
now on a seperat note, fire fighter unions maybe be differant but i can see how that would be a good thing. making sure everyone is safe and taken care of, but that is alot differant then a carpender,tile,mason, or any other labor union
03-18-2004, 06:31 PM #24
Ive worked for companies that were unionized and Ive worked for companies and were non-union. I would far sooner work for a unionized company any day. Of course there are down side to unions like people doin jack sh*t all day and tell the boss to f*ck off and what have you and not getting fired. The union is there to support the workers, that doesnt mean the workers should abuse it though. I find you can advance faster in a company that is unionized as well as make more money. Me personally, I am all for uinions.
03-18-2004, 06:32 PM #25Originally Posted by Testsubject
03-18-2004, 06:35 PM #26
read this and you tell me if you wouldnt have a problem with unions in our city!!!
["This is typical regressive City union politics. Instead of letting a production company use non-union labor to renovate a building that would serve as home base to a wildly popular TV show, that would be used to help showcase the City in a positive light to 68 million weekly viewers in 47 countries around the world, that would help garner priceless free publicity for Philly, that could translate into millions of dollars in increased tourism, and that could help spur an influx of younger taxpayers into a City that has been watching its tax base erode for 40 years (and is currently trying to plug a hole in a $200 million+ budget deficit)...the City unions have instead chosen to picket the show and make doing business impossible. Along with that comes Mayor Street saying "who cares"? I mean, what can Street really do? After all, the unions have John Street in their back pockets...the unions have bankrolled his entire political career. Do ! you really think Street or the union leaders have the collective wisdom to sit down and say, "The Real World may, in the long-term, help create many more union jobs down the road than they won't receive now, due to the increased tourism and business that this would bring the City"??? Forward thinking this City is not...unless they want to hand out tax-free KOZ's for political donors (see Liberty Trust & Comcast real estate deals currently on the City's agenda...)
Of course, other strong union cities such as New York and Chicago had no problem with allowing MTV to come in and do business using non-union labor...but hey, the City unions are the last bastion of great thinking in the Western Hemisphere, and I'm sure they know what's really good for the City and the region...how could I doubt that?
The City population has shrunk from 2.1 million people to 1.45 million in 35 years for many reasons, but none more so than the fact that Philly has the most anti-business policies in the entire country. Between an oppressive tax structure and horrendous unions (ask the Pennsylvania Convention Center attendees over the last 10 years...another national embarassment), it's not a surprise that most young people flee the City as soon as they are economically able, leaving the City with the largest elderly population (%-wise) in the country, and with approximately 1/3 of its residents living at or below the poverty line. This is just one more example of a City that is run by short-sighted ignoramuses who would rather have 100% of nothing than a nice percentage of something. But Philly citizens get what they deserve...you vote for this political flotsam election after election! ]
03-18-2004, 06:35 PM #27
First off, Cycleon has about a million posts literally...haha, thats incredible..
The funniest thing is, Large companies aren't sending blue collar work out of the country, it's the salaried positions that are up sh!ts creek.. Basicly the jobs that US programers, designers, and engineers (salaried professionals) are being replaced with cheap labor from Indian, and middle eastern workers.. I read once that an engineer in India gets paid $12.00 salary for doing the SAME job as a degreed engineer from the states making $35.00 an hour.. Go figure, your CEO is banking on cheap labor and making himself a million in half the time..
I highly doubt you will see any companies importing cement laborers or iron workers, from other countries.. it just won't happen, sounds funny though.. Unions are necessary in my opinion.. I don't think independent contractors could pull off some of the jobs that Unions bid for..
03-18-2004, 07:29 PM #28Originally Posted by jcstomper
03-18-2004, 08:51 PM #29Originally Posted by markas214
also what kind of knowledge do you want me to tell ya about to understand what im saying? im a business owner, i see how people are so jealous of the owners but all they have to do is get off there lazy azz and start there own business. its really not that hard. im not just going by my blank opinion, i have friends that are in unions and they all agree they get screwed every day by the lazy azz people they work with. they dont get paid on how productive they are, they get paid for being there. you can be the best worker, or you can be the worst, your still gonna get paid the same. you dont see something wrong with that? you really wanna defend the lazy guy that bad? or is it that you are the lazy guy? i dont know? thats why im asking
and as for me thinking most union workers are lazy, yes i do think the majority of them are. very lazy in fact, ever time i see union work being done i see people standing around doing nothing. thats why it takes our road projects years to be finished. they usually have 3 people working and 5 people standing around watching. but all of them are getting paid. its a complete waste of money for the business owners, and the tax payers footing the bill. and guess what, sorry to bust your bubble but thats why business owners own the business, they are smarter then you and found a way to use your azz to make more money then you, if you dont like it, like i said go start your own business. they dont own the business to make sure your happy and they are not. they own the business to make money with out working, ever hear of the concept "work smarter not harder"? well thats what us business owners and real estate investors do. thats why i get to wake up when ever i feel like it, and you have to wake up so you can be to work on time
i understand you wanna defend your union, sh-t if i could be a lazy ass all day and still get paid i wouldnt want it taken away either.
maybe your one of the workers that actually work, maybe your not. but if you were youd be agreeing with everything im saying, cause im sure youd be pissed at the people who dont work as hard as you but get the same wage and benifits as you no matter how productive they are
EDIT: IM ON A TREN /EQ CYCLE SO I MAY BE A LITTLE HEATED LOL. SORRY EVERYONE DONT TAKE IT THE WRONG WAY. I STILL LIKE EVERYONE
Last edited by jcstomper; 03-18-2004 at 09:17 PM.
03-18-2004, 08:57 PM #30Originally Posted by CYCLEON
1) Last I heard, the head of the AFL-CIO made around $400,000. The average CEO compensation is around $10 million.
And the last job I had, we were in desperate need of a union . . . not for $$$, but to enforce safety. Long story here, but rest assured, OSHA can't do squat against a corporation with 6 lawyers who do nothing all day long but fight OSHA. Lots more lawyers for everything else . . . 6 just to handle safety litigation.
Last edited by Tock; 03-18-2004 at 09:14 PM.
03-18-2004, 08:59 PM #31Originally Posted by Elliot
Talk about eliminating competition . . . nowadays, thanks to giant corporations, 90% of all the music and entertainment and news you get is controlled by six companies.
I think that corporations do pretty good by themselves at eliminating competition . . .
03-18-2004, 09:22 PM #32Originally Posted by jcstomper
If anything unions prevent *some* of those greedy management tactics by keeping jobs home with wages you can live on...
my dads been in one his whole life and i honestly say that if it wasnt for his union he would have been canned a very long time ago. his job isnt hard, and they could have hired a younger cheaper worker to take over.
I work for the government... worked for various levels of the gov my whole adult life, including the post office! I have ALWAYS been unionized, and in the last 15 years have NEVER seen people paid to do nothing... some were less than satisfactory and the slackers were terminated quickly (often with cooperation from the union).
Was it not for unions, my firefighting carreer would be dead and burried following a forced municipal merger (our town was forcibly and unwillingly merged with Montreal and montreal kicked us out of our station right out on the streets and put their own people in...). Thanks to our union, we at least have a fighting chance (in court now) at getting our jobs back.
Are unions perfect? Far from it... are they needed? Absolutely, or else greedy corporate america (and world!) would screw every last worker to make an extra dollar for the allmighty shareholder.
(I always wonder how those greedy shareholders think the average joe is going to afford their products or services when they send all their jobs to China or Pakistan, or force non union shops working for peanuts...)
03-18-2004, 09:24 PM #33Originally Posted by jcstomper
WOW KEY WORD THERE...BUSINESS OWNER..no **** wonder you dont like unions. Typical.
And, I dont think a union is going to run off another union. In the case where you mentioned the MTV thing. And that is obviously a big deal to you.. wow big deal.
03-18-2004, 09:28 PM #34
How many of you take labor day off??
Oh you should thank the AFL-CIO for that one. yea...yea and what about your overtine pay.. hell since you dont like it send it my way..
and holiday pay. etc.
03-18-2004, 09:31 PM #35Originally Posted by jcstomper
don't be "J" JCSTOMPER...you dont like em fine,we dont need hard working business owners who are always there on time,and never bitch about there lazy azz jobs, for getting paid 6 figures a year setting on their azzes,not doing a thing!
03-18-2004, 09:37 PM #36Originally Posted by Bigbowboski
Last edited by jcstomper; 03-18-2004 at 09:52 PM.
03-18-2004, 09:39 PM #37Originally Posted by Bigbowboski
03-18-2004, 09:48 PM #38Originally Posted by Red Ketchup
Originally Posted by Red Ketchup
Originally Posted by Red Ketchup
Originally Posted by Red Ketchup
Originally Posted by Red Ketchup
Last edited by jcstomper; 03-18-2004 at 09:56 PM.
03-18-2004, 09:53 PM #39
And just how much money would you have seen. It would have been like anything else,the money just disappears..
"teach me" "if i wanna learn" "closed minded" wow now.. i could easily say the same for you bro... there are ups and downs to everything.. i dont care what it is. There are some things i dont like about the unions,but the is a whole lot i do like. And that by far out weighs the bad. Im pro union 100 percent.
And if i was meant to make 6 figures and be a big business owner, i would be doing it. but for some reason i risk my life for those i dont even know. people like you. unconditionally,unselfishly,with no questions asked. And that my friend is something to be proud of.
03-18-2004, 10:01 PM #40Originally Posted by Bigbowboski
Originally Posted by Bigbowboski
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