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Guys, I'm saddened. As a soldier and father myself I'm sad today and everyday I hear of more young American lives lost in a war that my heart tells me was fought on a foundation of lies, what I'd like to know is what is the common man on the ground in America saying about this war.
Without the bravado guys please, whats happening in America with these daily reports of Americans killed and no WMD's and no sign of any kind of domocracy?
It's tragic.....no one here likes what is going on....it seems that everyday it gets more and more out of hand. Being a soilder yourself BOUNCER....do you think Bush should send in the fleet again? As in, should we declare war again on them? Cause at this point I ahve no idea what is going to work. I stand firmly behind this war....but I am getting more and more hesitant on my support.
Nothing. and that is what makes this so ****ty. dont get me wrong it saddens all americans to hear about troops dying. however, most people still support bush and therefore support his war. even though there are clearly no wmd, people live in denial. Nobody has the balls to admit when they were wrong anymore.
iraq is not a priority anymore for bush. with the election comming up i presume there will be a massive manhunt for bin laden. who has been conviniently forgotten now that saddam became such an immenint threat :rolleyes:
this is total bull****. Clinton lies about cheating and america goes crazy. Bush lies and gets our troops killed and people priase him.
it really saddens me every time i hear this news.......somtimes i think the best leader for these ppl is saddam himself.... i kind of supported the war but i'm wondering if it's worth all these guys lives.
I think it must be considered that soldiers enter into an agreement when enlisted and they know full well the consequences that may arise from joining the service. Politically, the decision to invade Iraq was not an easy or particularly clear one in many people's eyes but I believe in 100% commitment once a decision has been made. America has decided to meet an objective and I don't think it's prudent to pull out due to loss of troops in mid swing. Until their mission has been accomplished they should maintain complete commitment. They must do what they set out to do.......whatver it might be.
Having said that if I was an American (I'm not) I would vote for a candidate who is not in favour of military presence in Iraq. I don't think they should be there, but since they are, keeping up with 100% effort makes sense to me.
It was all about the oil.
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chico I agree with you 100%, but troops numbers have never been lower. The last figures I seen where 130,000 troops on the ground, that compares to approx 500,000 troops for Gulf war I. Take into account it troops approx 3-5 support troops for one combat soldier its not hard to see how hard the guy on the ground has it today. So their we can't say their government is 100% behind them.
Please God Bush doesn't sell them out now, or withdraw and leave behind a fragmented Iraq.
bush sold them out before they ever went in
I know everyone is gonna want us to bail out of iraq but now is the time to get in there stronger, bring the heat, and destroy all of the saddam supporters. Time to whipe their asses out...
I find myself in complete agreement with Chico and Ironfist. My brother just recently got back from spending 10.5 months as a chopper pilot for the 101st. He is scheduled to go back in 2005. Just last month, the 3rd ID got their orders for either late 04 or early 05. The 101st will likely be 4 months behind them.
I don't believe this war was ever about WMD...I believe it was about removing a psychopath from power. So the CIA fabricated WMD info...it got the public opinion high enough to go in there. I am ready for all of our soldiers to get back home, but I don't want us to pull out of Iraq at this point...that would be a nightmare.
Actually, I support having enough troops on the ground to support spec ops handling things in their own way.
Unfortunately you're right this is not about WMD, but it's not about helping people whom are in need either. Do you think we really went there because of people in need. There are millions of people in need in the world but we're not overthrowing Ethiopia because they treat their populace poorly. This is the start of globilization by the Bush administration put in place by the Cheney group backing him. Some theorists go further to say that it's a larger conspiricy from there but with less proof backing it. Either way, they are going for goals that are not what they tell us. If that isn't apparent to you then you are foolish to buy in to what you're told by the people in charge. Is it odd to anyone that we were having trouble securing a treaty to build oil lines through afgahnistan, until we overthrew their government and installed a new leader ... then viola. Treaty complete and oil lines now under construction by Haliburton. Haliburton, the same company that is raking in millions every day over in Iraq. The same company that our Vice President owns a majority of stock in. Money goes in to our VP's hands every day we are in Iraq. Think we are leaving soon? It didn't matter when we didn't find Osama because he wasn't the point of going over there. Finding Saddam was a little more important because everyone was staring at us. Does anyone know the last name of the only people approved to fly in US airspace on Sept 11 and 12th, 2002? Hint: a member of their family was the one we blamed for the attacks.
bump, I like this debate.
I personaly have at least 3 close friends of mine that are in iraq as we speek. Doing different things of course but all at risk of loosing there life. I will always support the US military just because of loved ones that are in the service.
Personaly i could care less about the middle east, i understand that they have stuff that we want (IE:oil)
Ryan, I have friends over there involved in other things as well. A good friend of mine trained and worked with some of the guys that were killed in Fullujah. He is heading back over in a week or two.
Man i bet that bush doesnt take to much more **** from the sunni triangle or Fullujah, hopefully we just friggin take the hole god dang triangle out with the new bomb, Mother of all bombs, i saw the test bomb film, god **** good luck living if your within a 1/2 mile of that thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swellin
All i have to say is condolences to their families.
I agree with ironfist. This thing needs to be ended . Go back in full force . This is starting to remind me of vietnam and that kinda troubles me.
We are in a gorrilla war now. Unless we start using unconventional tactics we are in for a long and bloody spring. This is Bush's war. He will take either all the credit or all the blame for the outcome. As of now Iraq is more dangerous than before we went in on false pretenses. If we pull out now Iraq will be the capital of all Islamic terrorists. It's a shame we are in such a no win situation. It's time to get brutal.
The biggest shame are the lives, your friends, that Bush is giving to line his buddies pockets. If you research a little on the Bush family and their old oil ties, and then realize whom is still surrounding him today it's a bit scary. The Bin Laden's were old friends of the Bush family. Odd that the connection is still there in a new form.
I couldn't have said it better. We wont bail on Iraq. We learned that lesson with Afganistan. We need to put down the hammer and squash any resistance. As far as the public I think everyone is weary of the deaths, but as it should be, we still support the war because we need to support our troops.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swellin
I've had a couple friends over there too, one just got back 2 weeks ago. One of my buddies is a tanker, and the last couple letters I've gotten from him haven't been that good. His letter just go this way and that never really focusing on a subject...almost like mindless babble. I worry.
Sym
you dont have to support the war to support the troops.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Symian
I've combat experience so I can identify with your buddy. Don't worry about the content of his letters, when your in his situation you feel that civilians back home won't understand what you have to say about your experiences etc. He'll be getting that out with his buddies. Sometimes we just post out of boredom too, your not in combat 24/7 and the time between is boring as hell. He'll tell you over a few beer's when he gets home, don't worry too much about what he's saying now. Kindest regards to your friend.
I think the most vivid illustration of how pulling out becuase of waning political support after a job half done is the American war effort in Vietnam. Yankees left on the agreement of a cease fire and shortly threreafter the communists took over the south. The mission was not seen through to the bitter end and many troops lost their lives anyway.....talk about men who died in vain. This should NOT be repeated in Iraq.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Symian
Agreed. I'm confident that Bush will stay the course. We honestly don't know how Kerry will run things until he's put into that position. Maybe he'd get it done, maybe not. But you can look at his support or lack there of for the support of our troops in his past voting decisions. BUT you never know. :unsure: I haven't done that much research on Vietnam, so I can't really speak about it that well.Quote:
Originally Posted by chicamahomico
Thanks, Bouncer. I know it's hell over there.
Sym
I agree. I have never supported this war. However, I support our troops 110%. We started this, therefore we need to finish it. If we don't, we have to ask, What did our boys die for?Quote:
Originally Posted by ironfist
D
one thing everyone should know by now is that freedom is NOT cheap.....
And the government treats our vets like ****!
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...p?story=507855
A-men brother... I love my country, but IMO Bush is a greedy douche bagQuote:
Originally Posted by symatech
well if you pray, pray for the soldiers who earned the term hero, and for their families.... Rangers Lead the Way.