Today is the first aniversary of.....

[BOUNCER]

That fool Bush declaring victory in Iraq. Guess someone forgot to tell the Iraqi's. I can't believe that some of you guys are going to vote this clown back in. And if you do I hope its only so that he has to live with his actions and see this war through to it end.

What happens if America lose's this one?. Despots the world over will feel they can run wild producing WMD's in the face of a weaked America. Even as an Irishman I'm fearfull of what the future will bring if America loses'.

[Spoon]

The war in Iraq is far from over and by far not a victory as bush proclaimed. It seems that the local militias are arming, taking advantage of the chaos and unrest and shiites and sunnis are setting aside differences in the hope of joining forces to " behead the americans and infidels!" Just today i saw a news clip of 3 japanese hostages knives at their throats being threatend with their lives, their request?...... for japanese forces to leave Iraq.

If its not to kill as much american soldiers, its to kill the local iraqi police tasked with keeping the peace in iraq. If all else fails then they bomb innocent peace keepers or the like. Now they threaten news reporters, observers from any coaltion member they can get their hands on in the hope that they can get these guys to abandon george bush and the USA. If they keep it up it might work. After the bombing in spain, coalition members are getting cold sweats asking themselves," are we next and where?" Question is not IF but when and where?

seems like bush got more than he bargained for when he invaded iraq. it wasnt as easy as initially thought. i just hope that he gets the job done as soon as possible without any more unwarranted casualties. but in every military campaing there will always be casualties. the war in iraq will undoubtedly bring much more considering that there still are a lot of brainwashing and indoctrination among iraqi youths that killing americans and all that crap will get you into heaven etc. etc. We have to fix the problem at the core. Winning the war in iraq is far from over. we have to cleanse the culture of hatred between the muslim world and the west. Seems like every corner in the world there will always be a hornets nest waiting to be stirred and some country to do the stirring! I dread the world my future children will be born into.

Spoon

[bigbouncinballs]

yep, i'll vote him back in... and yep, you better be fearful of america.

[Mart651]

yep, i'll vote him back in... and yep, you better be fearful of america.

Im with you BBB.

Every other country loves our politics. Good thing we are around to let them have theirs.

[Warrior]

I saw something very disturbing yesterday - video of Japanese hostages being tormented and the terrorist were threatening to burn them alive! Fuk'n'A!

[Superhuman]

yep, i'll vote him back in... and yep, you better be fearful of america.

hell yeah, bro.

[jbigdog69]

Five days of heavy fighting for Fallujah involving tanks, warplanes and helicopter gunships in residential areas of the city of 200,000 has killed more than 280 Iraqis and at least four Marines. This just goes to show how ignorant these people are. Why do you fight against this kind of fire power???

[HiFi]

you think wars end in a month or two? that country has to be rebuilt, and there are many who refuse to let us do it. not to mention the fact that we dont have enough troops over there. reporters have traveled for hundreds of miles without seeing an american.

[palme]

Im with you BBB.

Every other country loves our politics. Good thing we are around to let them have theirs.

So my country would have its freedom if america didnt watch over us?

[Rak_Ani]

That fool Bush declaring victory in Iraq. Guess someone forgot to tell the Iraqi's. I can't believe that some of you guys are going to vote this clown back in. And if you do I hope its only so that he has to live with his actions and see this war through to it end.

What happens if America lose's this one?. Despots the world over will feel they can run wild producing WMD's in the face of a weaked America. Even as an Irishman I'm fearfull of what the future will bring if America loses'.

Bouncer, I think this topic will be one of our biggest disagreements, at least in the near future.
There are two different forces fighting against the Americans in Iraq.
1. The Sunnites (sp') who are pissed that the Americans kicked them out of power.
2. The Shi'ites (sp') who are generally more extreme muslims and hate the West as it, in their eyes, threatens them.
The Sunnites are supported by terrorist organizations from Syria. The Shi'ites are supported by Iran. Both get arms smuggled in by their supporters.
Comparing the situation in Iraq to what you had in Ireland is wrong and I think this is what you do that makes you against this war. Iraq was a hostile country who's government massively supported terrorism. For example, each suicide bombing that was successful in Israel rewarded the family of the bomber with $25,000 paid by Iraq. Many major terrorists were given shelter in Iraq, and many terrorists trained there. As part of a global war on terrorism, which I'm pretty sure you'd agree with me that must be fought, Iraq was one of the countries needed to be delt with. In my opinion the US needs to send a clear message to both Syria and Iran that unless they get their act together they're next.
Besides that, be honest here, do you really believe America can lose this war? The problem America is having isn't that they don't have enough military power. The problem is that the some Iraqis find it hard to accept the west and this is where the Americans need to figure out what to do to make them accept their aid in rebuilding Iraq. Maybe even convince the Turks to help. They're western, and they're muslim, so maybe the Iraqis will find it easier to accept them.
Bush is fighting a just war. You have been around the Middle East, you have seen Islamic terror, and I would expect that you'd understand the urgency to fight it before it spreads any more. Bush has realised what he's up against after 9/11 and is fighting this war because he knows what needs to be done to make the future safer. I don't know why you think this war in Iraq is personal. Bush has also gone into Afganistan, he's giving Israel much more free hand to fight the Palestinians terrorism than any other American president has done, and he's gone to fight Iraq. Don't forget that in action, the Iraqi govt has been the most hostile govt in the middle east in the past years, so why is it so shocking they're dealt with first?

[jbigdog69]

Bouncer, I think this topic will be one of our biggest disagreements, at least in the near future.
There are two different forces fighting against the Americans in Iraq.
1. The Sunnites (sp') who are pissed that the Americans kicked them out of power.
2. The Shi'ites (sp') who are generally more extreme muslims and hate the West as it, in their eyes, threatens them.
The Sunnites are supported by terrorist organizations from Syria. The Shi'ites are supported by Iran. Both get arms smuggled in by their supporters.
Comparing the situation in Iraq to what you had in Ireland is wrong and I think this is what you do that makes you against this war. Iraq was a hostile country who's government massively supported terrorism. For example, each suicide bombing that was successful in Israel rewarded the family of the bomber with $25,000 paid by Iraq. Many major terrorists were given shelter in Iraq, and many terrorists trained there. As part of a global war on terrorism, which I'm pretty sure you'd agree with me that must be fought, Iraq was one of the countries needed to be delt with. In my opinion the US needs to send a clear message to both Syria and Iran that unless they get their act together they're next.
Besides that, be honest here, do you really believe America can lose this war? The problem America is having isn't that they don't have enough military power. The problem is that the some Iraqis find it hard to accept the west and this is where the Americans need to figure out what to do to make them accept their aid in rebuilding Iraq. Maybe even convince the Turks to help. They're western, and they're muslim, so maybe the Iraqis will find it easier to accept them.
Bush is fighting a just war. You have been around the Middle East, you have seen Islamic terror, and I would expect that you'd understand the urgency to fight it before it spreads any more. Bush has realised what he's up against after 9/11 and is fighting this war because he knows what needs to be done to make the future safer. I don't know why you think this war in Iraq is personal. Bush has also gone into Afganistan, he's giving Israel much more free hand to fight the Palestinians terrorism than any other American president has done, and he's gone to fight Iraq. Don't forget that in action, the Iraqi govt has been the most hostile govt in the middle east in the past years, so why is it so shocking they're dealt with first?

Thanks!!!

[BOUNCER]

Im with you BBB.

Every other country loves our politics. Good thing we are around to let them have theirs.

I'm humbled in your presence

Good reply Rak_Ani, thanks.

[bigbouncinballs]

Bouncer, I think this topic will be one of our biggest disagreements, at least in the near future.
There are two different forces fighting against the Americans in Iraq.
1. The Sunnites (sp') who are pissed that the Americans kicked them out of power.
2. The Shi'ites (sp') who are generally more extreme muslims and hate the West as it, in their eyes, threatens them.
The Sunnites are supported by terrorist organizations from Syria. The Shi'ites are supported by Iran. Both get arms smuggled in by their supporters.
Comparing the situation in Iraq to what you had in Ireland is wrong and I think this is what you do that makes you against this war. Iraq was a hostile country who's government massively supported terrorism. For example, each suicide bombing that was successful in Israel rewarded the family of the bomber with $25,000 paid by Iraq. Many major terrorists were given shelter in Iraq, and many terrorists trained there. As part of a global war on terrorism, which I'm pretty sure you'd agree with me that must be fought, Iraq was one of the countries needed to be delt with. In my opinion the US needs to send a clear message to both Syria and Iran that unless they get their act together they're next.
Besides that, be honest here, do you really believe America can lose this war? The problem America is having isn't that they don't have enough military power. The problem is that the some Iraqis find it hard to accept the west and this is where the Americans need to figure out what to do to make them accept their aid in rebuilding Iraq. Maybe even convince the Turks to help. They're western, and they're muslim, so maybe the Iraqis will find it easier to accept them.
Bush is fighting a just war. You have been around the Middle East, you have seen Islamic terror, and I would expect that you'd understand the urgency to fight it before it spreads any more. Bush has realised what he's up against after 9/11 and is fighting this war because he knows what needs to be done to make the future safer. I don't know why you think this war in Iraq is personal. Bush has also gone into Afganistan, he's giving Israel much more free hand to fight the Palestinians terrorism than any other American president has done, and he's gone to fight Iraq. Don't forget that in action, the Iraqi govt has been the most hostile govt in the middle east in the past years, so why is it so shocking they're dealt with first?

yep, all this for israel... it's pretty sad. someday...someday... someday israel will be able to take care of themselves whilst coming to the conclusion that the entire world hates them for reasons well beyond anti-semitism.

[Rak_Ani]

yep, all this for israel... it's pretty sad. someday...someday... someday israel will be able to take care of themselves whilst coming to the conclusion that the entire world hates them for reasons well beyond anti-semitism.

No brains, no worries.
You must have tried reading my post in Chinese if you understood THAT from what I wrote.
I don't know why you think your life isn't in danger of terrorist acts, especially after yesterday's kidnapping of two Muslim Arabs from East Jerusalem in Iraq has proven that no one, including devoted Muslims, is safe from terrorism.
But you go on living in your little world where Israel is the bad guy (and the Jews control the world economy? Amen!) and let the ones who think act in your defense.

[bigbouncinballs]

can do!

[BOUNCER]

yep, all this for israel... it's pretty sad. someday...someday... someday israel will be able to take care of themselves whilst coming to the conclusion that the entire world hates them for reasons well beyond anti-semitism.

Mmmmmm, let me see the logic of this..

Israel has a friend in America, and Almost every other Arabic country with the possible exception of Saudi Arabia and Kuwait are backed by Russia, China and North Korea.... So explain why you hate Israel so much, and please don't speak for the world BBB. I love Israel

[bigbouncinballs]

i hate many things about israel, but moreso the lack of choice i, as an american, have about supporting them in their endeavors. israel is cunning and intelligent, i'll give them that... but without the enourmous amount of campaign finance contributions, to both parties, they'd be just another middle eastern country makin' drama and death.

give me a while, if i can find the data on the aforementioned contributions, i'll post em.

i'll also apologize for speaking on the worlds behalf, but i have trouble believing that if you're blood didn't run back to the torah, you'd see israel in the same light.

[bigbouncinballs]

Mmmmmm, let me see the logic of this..

Israel has a friend in America, and Almost every other Arabic country with the possible exception of Saudi Arabia and Kuwait are backed by Russia, China and North Korea.... So explain why you hate Israel so much, and please don't speak for the world BBB. I love Israel

alliances should be made, not bought... like friends

[bigol'legs]

So my country would have its freedom if america didnt watch over us?

yes palme I would have to agree that you wouldnt. Looked like in WW1 & 2 if we didnt step in you wouldnt have your freedom right now.

[BOUNCER]

i have trouble believing that if you're blood didn't run back to the torah, you'd see israel in the same light.

So it is about anti-semetism ?

[bigbouncinballs]

So it is about anti-semetism ?

no sir, it is not. i have no ill will toward you. it was a legitimate question, or at least that was my intent.

[sepjuice]

yes palme I would have to agree that you wouldnt. Looked like in WW1 & 2 if we didnt step in you wouldnt have your freedom right now.

ppl always seem to forget....

[spywizard]

Losing is not an option............

i would rather have lower taxes.. and finish than to have higher taxes, and have the UN get thier fingers further into my pocket...

Worthless pack of idiots.............

[navydevildoc]

You know, sometimes you have to put a reality check in to these things... one of my friends came back in a box from Iraq (HM3 Mike Johnson). There are people's lives on the line. Many of my fellow brothers in arms are there again in the I MEF.

It's great to have all these ideals about how America is right and **** everyone else, might means right and all of this other BS. Tell it to Mike's mom who has nothing but a flag to remember her son by.

I have been in combat, as have others on this board. Before I experienced it, I thought actually getting to get some "gun time" was the best thing that could have happened, being able to put those years of training to work. Now, afterwards, if I could give the whole experience back I would.

As far as the whole "the war is over" press conference/photo op. I had a bunch of friends on the USS Lincoln where that was done. They had to stop steaming back home so bush could come aboard and play commander in chief for a few days. They were 3 days late getting home because of that. Way to look out for your troops, Mr. President. They haven't seen their loved ones for 8 months but they need to stop 300 miles off the coast for a while so you can hold a press conference.

[Red Ketchup]

Whatever the reason for the war in Irak does anyone here honestly think is was worth the life of a *single* American soldier?

Personally I think not...

Red

[kmannnnnnn]

Also where sre these weapons (wmd 's) ?

[navydevildoc]

Whatever the reason for the war in Irak does anyone here honestly think is was worth the life of a *single* American soldier?

Personally I think not...

Red

Unfortunately, someone will come up with some crap about how we are "at war" with terrorism.... here is a reality check people.... MORE PEOPLE WILL DIE THIS YEAR ALONE FROM SMOKING THAN FROM TERRORISM IN THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY.

The "threat" from terrorism exists, don't get me wrong. But we should not have this laser beam focus on it. I don't mean to belittle the lives lost at the WTC, the Pentagon, and UAL Flight 93. But come on... terrorism is WAY down the list of causes of death in this country. We have lost another 600 eradicating this "threat" from Iraq.

Afghanistan is a different story. We had clear, concise reason to go in there. Iraq was something entirely different. I have no problem with going in there, in my opinion it was going to happen sooner or later. The problem is what we went in with political motives with a half-cooked plan and now it's biting us in the ass.

[kmannnnnnn]

You know, sometimes you have to put a reality check in to these things... one of my friends came back in a box from Iraq (HM3 Mike Johnson). There are people's lives on the line. Many of my fellow brothers in arms are there again in the I MEF.

It's great to have all these ideals about how America is right and **** everyone else, might means right and all of this other BS. Tell it to Mike's mom who has nothing but a flag to remember her son by.

I have been in combat, as have others on this board. Before I experienced it, I thought actually getting to get some "gun time" was the best thing that could have happened, being able to put those years of training to work. Now, afterwards, if I could give the whole experience back I would.

As far as the whole "the war is over" press conference/photo op. I had a bunch of friends on the USS Lincoln where that was done. They had to stop steaming back home so bush could come aboard and play commander in chief for a few days. They were 3 days late getting home because of that. Way to look out for your troops, Mr. President. They haven't seen their loved ones for 8 months but they need to stop 300 miles off the coast for a while so you can hold a press conference.

for your loss,but what did you think by signing up for a

[kmannnnnnn]

Why ? Because of the pipeline , going across afgan cmom !

[kmannnnnnn]

You know, sometimes you have to put a reality check in to these things... one of my friends came back in a box from Iraq (HM3 Mike Johnson). There are people's lives on the line. Many of my fellow brothers in arms are there again in the I MEF.

It's great to have all these ideals about how America is right and **** everyone else, might means right and all of this other BS. Tell it to Mike's mom who has nothing but a flag to remember her son by.

I have been in combat, as have others on this board. Before I experienced it, I thought actually getting to get some "gun time" was the best thing that could have happened, being able to put those years of training to work. Now, afterwards, if I could give the whole experience back I would.

As far as the whole "the war is over" press conference/photo op. I had a bunch of friends on the USS Lincoln where that was done. They had to stop steaming back home so bush could come aboard and play commander in chief for a few days. They were 3 days late getting home because of that. Way to look out for your troops, Mr. President. They haven't seen their loved ones for 8 months but they need to stop 300 miles off the coast for a while so you can hold a press conference.

Sry but when you join its for your COUNTRY then FAMILY .

[navydevildoc]

Sry but when you join its for your COUNTRY then FAMILY .

Very true. Trust me, if I had been told to go I would have gone.

Now, answer me this... (I am assuming you are a US Citizen)... what has our country gained from having Iraq taken over and 600 of its finest killed?

I agree that Sadam had to go. No question. However, what was the urgency????? Why didn't we wait a little bit, get our ducks in a row, then go get him? The buildup to gulf war I was many months into the making, and Iraq had invaded another country! This time it was hurried and botched in the process. Young men and women who had no say are paying the price.

Also, Kmannnnnn, I certainly hope you have been in the service, otherwise you have absolutely no right to dictate to people the reasons they joined. I would also say that the interests of your country and your family should be one and the same... if they are not, then something is wrong.

[bermich]

Also where sre these weapons (wmd 's) ?

Who gives a FVCK about WMDs. Are you still on that subject??? Who fvcking cares except you people who need something to complain about. Go live in Iraq and I promise you would want America to help you. "Oh we cant help you from being slaughtered because we dont see any WMDs. But we will wait 30 years until the UN lets us take action cause the US is too much of a pussy to act on their own when countries are in need." BULLSHlT. That will never happen while a republican is in office.

Japaneses hostages: So what.. Is that our fault?? Are we suppose to pull back our troops because they are taking japanese hostages? WTF, they have been killing, raping etc for decades BEFORE U.S. was even in IRAQ. Then you retards think it is ALL NEW NEWS and this just STARTED happening becasue we are in the middle east. GET A CLUE.

[navydevildoc]

Who gives a FVCK about WMDs. Are you still on that subject???

I would hope we all are because that is reason (at least the first reason) our government sold us on to spend 87 billion dollars and hundreds of young american's lives. There has to be accountability to those in charge. They ****ed up. They need to own up to it.

Now, before anyone gets all worked up over this, read my previous posts about my views on being there.

[navydevildoc]

Losing is not an option............

i would rather have lower taxes.. and finish than to have higher taxes, and have the UN get thier fingers further into my pocket...

OK, a couple of things here...

1 - I totally agree that losing is not an option. We are there now. We need to take care of the situation right.

2 - Lower taxes has to mean lower spending, the direct opposite that the current administration and congress has done. They have taken the nation's platinum card to the limit. We are getting deeper and deeper into debt. It's no different than if you had a mastercard and went way over your head with it. Someone sooner or later is gonna have to pay it off. Unfortunately, there is no bankruptcy court that the country can go to.

3 - We owe the UN a massive amount of money. The UN is not "in your pocket". This was a huge issue in the late nineties, when we finally said to the UN "OK, we will repay you" but never gave specifics, and in the end really didn't hold up our promise.

[BOUNCER]

Nice replies Devildoc.

Kmannn pure B/S

[palme]

yes palme I would have to agree that you wouldnt. Looked like in WW1 & 2 if we didnt step in you wouldnt have your freedom right now.

They never touched us (they could have) but they didnt and it's not b/c of the help from the USA, they took Denmark and Norway but left us cause we stayed neutral in the war and in the beginning some people even helped the nazis...
We could debate if Hitler would have invaded us eventually or not but the cold facts are he didnt when he had the chance.

Sepjuice - Re-read the history books bro. Youve never been to our aid in wartime.

[palme]

ppl always seem to forget....

Btw i love this comment, were was your memory when France declined to help you in the Iraqy war? Without France you wouldnt have gained independence from England!

[Ozzy]

Yea...go ahead and vote that idiot back in office and just watch our country go to hell in a hand basket............IDIOTS !!!
He wants to give employers the right to pay employees straight time for even 70-80 hours worked in a wk. Thats enough to make me want to vote for anyone else !!
And that is just the beginning of this arse holes brilliant ideas. Burn the bastard...let him go to Iraq and fight the war.

[BOUNCER]

Palme, as I said to Mart earlier;

I'm humbled in your presence

[palme]

Palme, as I said to Mart earlier;

Hail the banana!