Junior Member
I have been doing a lot of resaerch on DNP and I am thinking of using it at the end of my next cut cycle.
I was just looking for the opinions of anyone who's tried it. Is it worth the risk? Are the rumours true that if you use it properly you can lose up to a pound of fat a day? Are the side effects really as harsh as they are supposed to be? Is the possibility of over heating and "cooking" rare or is it common?
If anyone can answer these questions please do? Thanks.
Last edited by sean224; 05-16-2004 at 01:18 PM.
Anabolic Member
err hmm dnp, ive heard that dnp is seriously bad ****...not to be messed with, and its a chemical i wouldnt touch with a barge pole.
Seriously dangerous fat-burner. The stuff is literally the exact product used to kill bugs.
and yes the sides are as bad as they're supposed to be
Stay away from it mate, get some clen / t3 / eca
Junior Member
I thought it was used to ignite dynamite.Originally Posted by map200uk
Senior Member
it is. there is some nasty stuff in it but you can use it safely. but i would try clen and t3 first, then if you want to try dnp. there are some good dnp cycle posts. if there are still around you should read them.
Senior Member
yeah, try with clen/eca or t3 before DNP.
i ordered it one week ago but then told my source not to send it to me... the only way to stay away from it!
ive started clen today and will cycle with eca and see...
DNP... maybe next year IF ill be ready!!!
Respected Member
In my opinion DNP is made out to be much more dangerous then it really is, so yes.
Yep. Although the key words here are "up to". Depends on how *you* react to it, how *you* run it and what *your* diet is like. You can get ideas on how to run it from articles, but you'll have to experiment with it for awhile to find out what works best for you.
Again, everyone's different. For example it only takes 100mcg of clen to make me feel like I'm going to die, yet most people like it. There's one person on this board that took one 200mg DNP cap and felt like pure sh*t for two days. Others can take 600mg ed and not even bat an eye. I'm on it right now, it's 66 degrees in my house, I'm sitting directly under a ceiling fan in a t-shirt/shorts and I'm sweating like a slave.
"Hell hath no fury like a DNP cycle."-ME
Very rare. You either have to take a ridiculously high amount, or hit the dance floor all night while on extacy and drinking a couple liters of vodka.
Good luck.
Last edited by SV-1; 05-16-2004 at 03:07 PM.
Senior Member
No I overheated just sitting still in a room 70 degrees, I had to change shirts 3 times because i sweated soooooo much, you can overheat.
Anabolic Member
I won't even go near the ****. You'll put the weight back on anyways.
Respected Member
I thought it was used to ignite dynamite.
It's used for both.
Senior Member
I did do another cycle on a low carb diet with NO side effects, felt great while on it. But I dont think I lost as much fat.
On a side note what do you bros think of using dnp post cycle?
Anabolic Member
Why someone would want to stew their internal organs is beyond me. I have never used it personally, but from everything I've heard...the sides far outweight the benefits.
Retired Vet
Used correctly it is not that dangerous a drug...
I was scared to use it based on all the rumours
about how bad it is, but after a few cycles it's
not that much worst then higher doses of T3 for
example... I love the stuff and no you do not gain
the weight right back for the bro that made that
statement...
Banned
did try it for a good 3-4 weeks continusly.... dropped 40 lbs, in 10 week the honest truth,,,,, but with a good diet and a very hard cardio workout...... works great but,,,,,,,,,,, do not do it over a 6 month period...... it is sad to say but my bud ran it for a long time,.... and got cataract surgery...... not that long ago,..... he is fine now but still recuperating.... true story........
Member
****!.....
Well the usually newbie cycles are 7-10 days. Im planning a 10 day cycle winter next year, can't wait!
Associate Member
I don't know "dNP", but dude there is some serious rumors running around (bb). Also, don't use Clenbuterol a recent study shows that it damages heart and skeletal muscle. If you whant to go safer, go for an ECA. Believe me that 3% burned me 14 pounds in just 3 weeks of work. Of course, you do need some strict diet for everything. Look up your diet and workout first, then go for a supplement. Diet must be on check before trying a supplement.
Nocturno
Respected Member
Bro, DNP isn't a supplement.............It's an adventure.
ECA (3%) is as comparable to DNP (30-70%) as a bb-gun is to a nuclear missile.
Member
I would love to try it. Hell I have good life insurance. Now if I could just find it.
worked for
Anna its gotta work for me
I seriously would like to try it, but during the winter, not this summer.
New Member
Dnp, put my cousin in the hospital for 3 months, He has regularly used steriods for the past 5 years and never had such a bad reaction to a chemical like dnp, remember its used to kill bugs.....PRETTY Dangerous stuff
Retired Vet
About 20% of those who use DNP have shown to
have an allergic reaction to the drug... So no it's
not completely safe, but assuming you're not one
of those allergic and are smart about it and have
spent enough time researching the drug it is fairly
safe to use...
Anabolic Member
its bug poison, and many of the pros ive read about say dont even try it (if its true LOL) its very harsh.... diet and cardio for good fat loss all the way.... and of course clen, t3, eca
Associate Member
not to mention if you take to much your first time you can die....not worth the risk for this guy and i hope none of you guys.
Slinabolic Vet / Retired
Whats your reasoning behind that?
Respected Member
I really don't want to be the poster child for DNP, but some of these notions about it annoy me.
If after your DNP cycle all you do is sit around all day consuming pizza, doritos and bourbon, then yes. If your diet is in check then no you wont.
1. Unless you overdose or do something stupid you don't stew anything, the heat that's generated is radiated away (on 150mcg of t3 and 400mg of DNP my temp only goes up about 1 degree) . It's only if you generate more heat then your body can disperse that you have a problem, and that requires an overdose, or *very* stupid behavior.
2. Try it, you might like it.
3. For me the benefits far outweigh the sides.
Sorry to hear that bro, but what Buff said is right. About 20% of people have an allergic reaction to DNP. For most it's very mild and nothing that some Quercetin or Benadryl can't take care of. But for a few it's a very bad reaction, that doesn't mean that DNP is extremely dangerous. A lot of people are allergic to things like shell fish, wheat, different vegetables, all sorts of things. That doesn't make them extremely dangerous for everyone, just for those people.
I've used DNP, clen, eca, and t3. Here is my personal "harshness ranking", from least harsh to most harsh.
1. T3 - These things are about as harsh as tic-tacs to me.
2. DNP - A little harsh but not bad, Feel hot, sweaty and a little achy, but that's it.
3. ECA - I'm not a big fan of ECA (although I was a huge fan of NYC, R.I.P.). Pretty harsh, makes my heart slam into my chest, gives me a fuzzy high feeling, doesn't control hunger very well and when it wears off (which is about two hours) I crash so hard all I want to do is sleep.
4. Clen - Clen is of the Devil, it's evil in carnate. I hate clen the way the KKK hate the Black Panthers. Fu*k clen, fu*k it right in the ear. It is without a doubt one of the harshest things I've ever taken, and now I hear it damages heart and skeletal muscle. Perfect, one more on a long list of reasons I will never touch that sh*t again.
BTW these are my reactions to these drugs, your mileage may very.
Yep. If its your first cycle and you start out at a gram a day, having never tried it before to see how you react....... you might die. There are people that do 3grams a week of test, 600mcg a day of clen and 1gram a day of DNP. People do take these drugs in these high of doses. But it's not their first time. IMO anyone who's stupid enough to take that high a dose their first time out deserves what they get.
Member
Then I think you got fake or really underdosed gear!
Nobody and I mean Nobody! can stay "on" DNP for 4 weeks if using even a minimal dosage of 200 mg --->
It has a halflife of 36 hours so it would accumalate in your system
(for instance if accumalitive rate is 10%, and every day dosages with a compound that has a halflife of 36 hours is much more than 10% accumalative,
like 1,1^28 = 14,4 ---> meaning 200 mg is ED means you will have ROUGHLY 3 grams of DNP in your bloodstream at the end of the cycle!)
I really like DNP the only downside is you will feel tired all the time, this time i will supplement with T3 and T2 to counteract that feeling...
(also using 20 mg of sibutramine ED you will eliminate food cravings from DNP and I even "forgot" to eat some of the days I was on!)
Greets
Kingofmasters
Respected Member
Bro next time try Phentermine, I'm on it right now and it's great. IMO it suppresses appetite as well as Meridia (sibutramine) and unlike Meridia (which makes you drowsy) Phentermine greatly raises your energy levels.
Member
Very True bro, but Phentermine is an amfetamin (just like XTC) and so the energy boost is undesired (it has many unwanted long-term effects)...
Sibutramine is less direct (it just reduces the disposal of serotonine anf nor-adrenaline) and is therefor much safer...
Bro I know I am not a physician yet! but stay away from phentermine,
as I understand it the lethargy while on DNP is caused by low T3-levels so supplementing will not only greatly enhance fatburning effects but also counteract the tired feeling in a safe way!
(Your replies are always well thought off and helpful so I have complete faith in you that you know what you are doing just an advice though because I care about the well-being of my bros)
Good luck my Friend,
Respected Member
Actually it's not. But that's a common misconception.
"Isn't Phentermine an Amphetamine?
Phentermine is a sympathetic amine, classified as an anorectic medication under schedule IV of the Drug Enforcement Agency's Controlled Substances Act. Although phentermine is a stimulant, it is not classified as an amphetamine. Amphetamines have much greater abuse potential, work primarily on dopamine receptors, and are mostly, if not entirely classified under schedule II. The lower the number, the more abuse potential the medication has."
I've used it, but didn't like it very much. All I wanted to do was sleep all day.
Well, I'm taking t3 too, 150mcg to be exact.Also the main reason I'm taking the Phentermine is for the appetite suppression (DNP makes me *hungry*), but the energy doesn't hurt either.
"Does Phentermine speed up my metabolism?
Phentermine DOES have some thermogenic effect. What this means in plain English, is that it speeds up your metabolism. This effect lasts long after you feel any other effects from the medication. However, the thermogenic effect of phentermine and any other currently available obesity medications is minor compared to the effect on appetite. The major reason that phentermine results in weight loss, is that patients eat less. The thermogenic effect, on the other hand, may be useful in weight maintenance."
I've looked into it, believe me.
"Phentermine is the most commonly prescribed prescription appetite suppressant, accounting for 50% of the prescriptions. Part of this reason is because it's significantly cheaper than the other major FDA-approved diet drugs, Meridia and Xenical.
Phentermine first received approval from the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) in 1959 as an appetite suppressant for the short-term treatment of obesity."
It's been around for a long time and still going strong. I guess I'm going to worry about you using UA, and you're going to worry about me using Phentermine.
Thanx bro.
Last edited by SV-1; 05-17-2004 at 06:26 PM.
Junior Member
Yes , but the bugs are very,very skinny when they die........
Associate Member
Dnp is a very harsh... and dramatic weight loss drug. I have taken it and there is nothing that melts fat off of you like it but you need to be carefull. There is a weight to mg scale you should stick too... Just do your research and talk to others who have taken it.. goodluck
Member
You are totally right --> Phentermine is an amphetamine-mimicker (just like sibutramine)...Actually it's not. But that's a common misconception.
"Isn't Phentermine an Amphetamine?
Phentermine is a sympathetic amine, classified as an anorectic medication under schedule IV of the Drug Enforcement Agency's Controlled Substances Act. Although phentermine is a stimulant, it is not classified as an amphetamine. Amphetamines have much greater abuse potential, work primarily on dopamine receptors, and are mostly, if not entirely classified under schedule II. The lower the number, the more abuse potential the medication has."
I've used it, but didn't like it very much. All I wanted to do was sleep all day.
Well, I'm taking t3 too, 150mcg to be exact.
"Does Phentermine speed up my metabolism?
Phentermine DOES have some thermogenic effect. What this means in plain English, is that it speeds up your metabolism. This effect lasts long after you feel any other effects from the medication. However, the thermogenic effect of phentermine and any other currently available obesity medications is minor compared to the effect on appetite. The major reason that phentermine results in weight loss, is that patients eat less. The thermogenic effect, on the other hand, may be useful in weight maintenance."
I've looked into it, believe me.
"Phentermine is the most commonly prescribed prescription appetite suppressant, accounting for 50% of the prescriptions. Part of this reason is because it's significantly cheaper than the other major FDA-approved diet drugs, Meridia and Xenical.
Phentermine first received approval from the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) in 1959 as an appetite suppressant for the short-term treatment of obesity."
It's been around for a long time and still going strong. I guess I'm going to worry about you using UA, and you're going to worry about me using Phentermine.
Thanx bro.
Only problem with Ionamin (phentermine) is that everything you lose in fat comes back again quite easily
(it also has many Long term dangers but only if you are genetically predisposed, but when used alongside fenfluramine or Amphetaminesulphate like in the Phen-Phen-Cocktail you have a very dangerous supplement)
I always mix up phentermine with
the Fenfluramine (like in Pondimin) and the Amphetaminsulphate or Phentermine that they use in Phen-Phen Cocktails...
Greets
Kingofmasters
(Phentermine is also commonly faked using Amphetaminsulfate as main ingredient)
Last edited by kingofmasters; 05-18-2004 at 04:06 AM.
Anabolic Member
I've done 3 DNP cycles....the stuff is not any more dangerous than Slin IF research is done and it's taken properly. Here is the best post I've ever read on how to use DNP effectively...cut and pasted from the education threads:
The 7-day DNP fat loss plan:
The 7-day DNP fat loss plan involves a moderate to high dosage of DNP for fat burning. The DNP fat loss plan involves a 7-day on, 7-day off approach with four distinct phases. Most athletes using DNP follow this type of cycle. The phases are as follows:
Phase 1: The 3-day Carb-Depletion Phase.
Phase 2: The 1-day Thyroxine (T3) Re-normalization Phase.
Phase 3: The 14-day DNP Phase.
Phase 4: The 2-day Post-DNP Phase.
Phase 1. The 3-day Carb-depletion phase
Phase One has a three-day duration and begins the four days preceding the ingestion of DNP. The purpose of this phase is to deplete muscle-glycogen content by restricting carbohydrates. This is achieved through a Ketogenic style diet.
Kcals should be restricted to 10-12 times bodyweight in lbs. And carbohydrates should be restricted to less than 60g/day. Protein is consumed at 1 gram per pound of bodyweight or higher and the remaining dietary calories should come from fat.
This phase lasts exactly 3 days, and will reduce muscle-glycogen levels so that the body is forced to rely on fat as fuel more readily when you start your DNP cycle.
Phase 2 The 1-day Thyroxine (T3) Re-normalization Phase
This is a new concept for DNP dieting. During the past three days, the athlete has restricted carbohydrates and as a direct consequence T4-T3 conversion is slowed down resulting in reduced T3 levels. This is bad for the DNP phase, as you need enough active T3 to last throughout the entire 7-day on DNP phase.
Day four of the DNP cycle involves a mega-carbohydrate meal at mid-afternoon (4-6PM) designed to create a massive insulin spike and re-normalize T4-T3. This concept has been extrapolated from ketogenic diets and has been shown to dramatically increase serum concentrations of T3.
Day 4 involves Keto eating until the Mega-carb meal. Then in the late afternoon, at least circa 250g of carbohydrates must be consumed to create an insulin spike. Any sugar (fructose, sucrose, maltose etc.) is fair game. Fructose in particular is good because it primarily re-fills liver glycogen which is directly involved in T4-T3 conversion. (Empty liver glycogen signals the thyroid to decrease T4-T3 conversion).
As a side-note, a 250g carb-meal after three days of Keto dieting creates a more pronounced insulin spike than would a 250g carb-meal after three days of normal eating.
Kcals during Phase 2 should be kept at 15X Bodyweight in lbs. Macro-nutrient break-downs can be calculated by the athlete. The only carb intake on day 4 should be the 250g carb-meal.
Phase 3 The 14-Day DNP Phase
The first two days of actual DNP consumption are the most important to follow correctly. During Days 1 and 2 of the actual DNP portion of the cycle, it must be determined if the athlete will have an allergic reaction to DNP.
Day 1: 200 mg of DNP is ingested
Day 2: 200 mg of DNP is ingested
At this point the dieter should be able to assess if an allergic reaction has occurred. A DNP-stimulated allergic reaction will lead to swelling in as little as 1 to 2 days time. Approximately 10% of athletes will have such a reaction. The unfortunate few who experience this type of a reaction must terminate the cycle immediately. Benadryl or Ketotifen (Anti-histamines) can be used to treat mild symptoms. Obviously a doctor should be consulted should the symptoms prove more severe.
Day 3: Dieters making it to day 3 of the DNP phase have the option of increasing their dosage. The normal dosage for beginners is 400mg DNP/day. Even an amount this small should provide outstanding results. A word of caution. DO NOT TAKE MORE, if you are not experienced with DNP-use. More advanced users may chose to go higher based on past experience.
The 400mg/day dosage is maintained from Day 3 through Day 9(Exactly 7 days). The last dose is taken on Day 9.
Supplementation and Nutritional Protocol for a DNP cycle:
1. An ECA stack is beneficial while on a DNP cycle as it as it acts as an anorectant. DNP raises Neuro-peptide Y levels in the brain, which is directly linked to increased hunger. Consuming 75-100mg total of ephedrine alkaloids/day should be sufficient to suppress appetite. PPA (Nor-ephedrine) should NOT be used as it causes lethargy when combined with DNP.
2. Anti-oxidants. Due to the DNP induced rapid combustion of fats, free-radical production skyrockets up-wards. To combat this, anti-oxidants must be used. Anti-oxidants are the single most important supplement to take on a DNP cycle.
a) Fat-soluble Anti-O: Vitamin E: 1000mgs/day
b) Water-soluble Anti-O: Vitamin C: 2-3g/day
c) Alpha Lipoic acid: 600-1000mgs/day
Dual-anti-oxidant: BOTH fat & water-soluble actually re-cycles other anti-oxidants.
3. Glycerol: Although optional, glycerol is often consumed at 15ml's 3X/day. Glycerol increases hydration for many athletes.
No additional supplements are really required other than these three. All the rest you have read in various DNP articles are more for peace of mind than improved functionality. I consider them overkill.
4. Water: Not a supplement, but an absolute necessity.
DNP causes sweating and can be incredibly dehydrating. Dehydration is the NUMBER ONE cause of most DNP problems and deaths. Excessive dehydration results in over-heating. Dieters who do not replenish fluids properly while on a DNP cycle could die. The consensus among athletes is that at least two gallons of water must be consumed daily.
5. EAT FRUIT while on your DNP cycle.
Fruit for some reason has been found to greatly reduce the lethargy associated with a DNP cycle. It also has a high water content, therefore it helps to keep the dieter hydrated. Watermelon is an obvious recommendation.
6. Dietary intake: There are several schools of thought on this matter, but sticking to the old standard always works.
Kcals should be kept anywhere from 10-15X Bodyweight in lbs. Macro-nutrient break-downs should be kept at around 20% fat, 30% protein and 50% carbs. (Changing the ratios in favor of more carbs and protein w/ less fat will result in a more fat loss but nothing special. Also, remember that more carbohydrates means more heat.)
Take for example the 220 lb (100 kg) bodybuilder. He would consume anywhere from 2200 to 3300Kcal /day (Depending on his appetite control).
WHAT NOT TO DO on a DNP cycle.
a) Do not under any circumstances consume alcohol or ANY type of diuretic while on a DNP cycle. Alcohol and diuretics will dehydrate you and can cause SERIOUS problems.
b) Do not remain in a hot environment without replenishing fluid loss due to perspiration. This too can also cause SERIOUS problems.
c) Do not begin with a high dosage of DNP if you are a novice. This is just asking for a trip to the ICU.
The half-life of 2,4 Dinitrophenol is 36 hours. So, after 36 hours, there is only 50% of the DNP remaining in your system. Therefore, 72 hours later 25% remains. Then 12.5% remains after 108 hours. After 5 days (120 hours), there's roughly 9% of the DNP left in your body that you had on Day 9. This DNP concentration is low-enough to allow you to begin Phase 4 of the cycle -- the 2-day Post-DNP phase -- without compromising glycogen synthesis rates. Kcals during Days 10-14 should remain the same as during days 3-9.
Phase 4: The 2 day Post DNP Phase.
The whole purpose of this phase is to get muscle-glycogen levels back to normal. The Ketogenic carb-up can be used as a sort of template for this phase.
After Phases two and three, muscle-glycogen levels are depressed and need to be replenished.
Day 15: Carb-intake should be 7g/Kg of LBM (lean body mass = bodyweight minus body fat.) So assuming a 220 lb bodybuilder has 0% body fat, lol, he would consume 700 g of Carbs. Protein-intake remains at 1g/lb and fat is restricted as low as possible.
The focus on day 1 should be on High-GI foods like Fat-free Ice-cream and all the other non-fat high sugar desserts. Calories should be around 4000 for the 220-lb bodybuilder -- in other words, 18X bodyweight in lbs.
Drastically restricting fat is CRITICAL here, as the body is still burning fat for fuel as you replenish your glycogen stores. In essence, the dieter is still losing fat while carbing up.
Day 16: Muscle-glycogen has increased, so carb-intake should be decreased from day one’s 7g/Kg to only 5g/Kg of LBM. That would be 500g for our 220-lb bodybuilder. Protein is 1g/lb again. Fat remains as low as possible. Kcals for the dieter are reduced to 3000 Kcal range, or around 14X Bodyweight in lbs. The focus of Day 2 should be low-GI foods like vegetables, milk, lean meats etc.
Additional Precautions:
Dieters feeling extremely nauseated or who vomit during a cycle should discontinue use immediately and not restart for at least 36 hours.
Dieters should carry a pocket thermometer at all times. If body temperature rises above 102 Fahrenheit then the dosage should be lowered or the cycles should be terminated. Additionally, the dieter should take a very cold bath to lower the temperature.
In addition to water, V8 juice should be consumed. Drinking gallons of water depletes the body of electrolytes pretty badly predisposing the dieter to shock, nausea, lethargy, and even death. V8 is the best for replenishing electrolytes as it contains 950mg of potassium per 8oz compared to Gatorade’s 35mg of potassium in 8oz.
Massive amounts of fruits and sweets should be consumed if one becomes nauseated or vomits – i.e. force feed yourself.
Dieters should never allow themselves to become overheated on a DNP cycle. Always stay next to a fan and keep the air conditioner on. Do not attempt a DNP cycle if you work out doors in a warm climate or another warm environment like a kitchen. Even at low doses this can build up and be potentially dangerous.
There are two versions of DNP – regular and crystalline. Know which one you are taking. When taking the crystalline DNP caps, never take more than 200mg at once if you've never used it before. Even if you are used to it, it is still much safer to spread the dosage throughout the day. Crystalline DNP is much faster acting and can rapidly elevate temperature.
Post-Steroid Cycle Use of DNP
One of the primary causes of muscle breakdown after a steroid cycle is suppressed TSH. Anabolic steroids suppress TSH, which in turn lowers T3 and T4 production by the thyroid gland. The reduction in TSH is one reason that anabolic steroids are such excellent muscle builders.
Soon after the completion of a steroid cycle, TSH up-regulates, which in turn super-stimulates the thyroid. This excess stimulation causes the thyroid to produce above normal levels of T3 and T4. This increase in thyroid hormones is highly catabolic and is the main reason why people lose muscle post-cycle.
Athletes have learned that they need to restrict T3 production post cycle to prevent muscle loss. A novel approach to achieving this goal is the use of DNP. About 80% of the body’s endogenous T3 is produced from the metabolically inactive T4 to the metabolically active T3. The de-iodinase enzyme is responsible for this conversion. It literally cleaves off an iodine molecule.
By ingesting 200mg DNP/day, the athlete can correct the over stimulated Thyroid, returning T3 levels back to normal. DNP directly blocks the production of T3 from T4 via the de-iodinase enzyme.
As a bonus, the reduction in your ATP stores because of the DNP is counter acted by an increase in the oxidation of triglycerides as an energy source. The benefit is the elimination of any potential fat-gain from the low post-cycle testosterone levels. And as DNP is non-hormonal, it has no effect on HPTA recovery.
After cessation of DNP use post-cycle, the athlete will reap the benefits of the "Anabolic Rebound Effect" which further lends credence to the use of DNP as a post-cycle ancillary for the elimination of any post-cycle muscular losses.
Macro’s DNP Supplements
200mg alpha lipoic acid 3x a day with meals
1200-1500mg magnesium in 2-3 divided doses.
2-3000mg vitamin C
1200IU of vitamin E
200mcg of selenium.
1000-2000mg of calcium (can’t take it with the magnesium, though. Take it before bed)
Melatonin if you can’t sleep and it is also one of the best and cheapest anti-oxidants.
50mg of zinc a day
one iron tab as hemoglobin is a protein as well.
A potassium gluconate tab or two a day
Taurine at 3g a day.
Glutamine at 15g-20g a day .
1 table spoon glycerol 3 x a day
at least 2 gallons of water
a fan to point at your head while sleeping- or at work- basically anytime you can point a fan at you
500mg grapeseed extract
300mg cranberry extract
600-900mg of green tea
a good mulit vitamin
EC+1g of tyrosine 3x per day and 20mg of yohimbine topically 2x per day- for added energy and fat burning effects
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