my revised test-free cycle. plz review

ok this puppy is due for begining of july and i want to run it for 12 weeks. goal is to gain lean muscle mass with no fat gains and hopefully some fat loss.
i am opting out of test use because i want to see what type of lean results i can get. i believe that their might be a chance for me not to get too much water retention from dbol use without the test use with it. right now i weigh 190 pounds 12% fat. wishing to go up to 200 pounds, 10% fat with this cycle.

here it is:

1-12> deca 400mg pw
1-3>dbol 25mgpd
4-6>dbol 30mgpd
7-12>winstrol depot 50mg pd
1-12>proviron 37.5mg pd
13-15> HCG 1000iu eod. 10 shots total
13-15> Nolvadex 30mg ed.
16-19/21>clomid 150-50mg pd

i will be using tribulus, aveno sativa and multi vit/min supplements during the cycle.
i will be lifting heavy weights mostly compound movements 3 times a week/eod and will be doing light cardio post every workout.
my diet will be minumum 3000 calories 35% proteins to begin and max 3600 calories 40% proteins to end.
are my goals realistic, if not what can i do to ensure i get to that goal? thanks.

man i know you dont wana hear it but you gota have test in that cycle bro...provirion isnt gona do crap with all that gear..deca is hard on the hpta man....

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Originally Posted by barbarian

man i know you dont wana hear it but you gota have test in that cycle bro...provirion isnt gona do crap with all that gear..deca is hard on the hpta man....

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but tell me in all honesty bro, are you saying this based on SIMILAR experiences or because you have heard it from somewhere else....like what 99% of ppl say, that test must be included in EVERY cycle. i just feel that that is not true at all. and besides this, proviron has worked very well on me in the past, at only 25mg pd. my sperm count and libido actually went up compared to using test without the proviron. and i have used deca before and love the mass gains it gives me, yes i did use it with test but i hated the excess bloat and fat gains.

bro ive done a cycle without test....and i ****ed me over..and i know for a FACt that with deca,winny, and d bol that much proviron aint gona cut it...test isnt bad man.. youl get more lean gains..and maybe lost some fat if you have test in there bro..test is best.. its the father of all hormones...a cycle isnt a "cycle" without it as a base

plain and simple, for lean gains, your cycle sucks

Bro if you did that cycle you'd become the new Viagra poster boy, that alone should sway you.

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Originally Posted by 1-Cent

Bro if you did that cycle you'd become the new Viagra poster boy, that alone should sway you.

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hes prolly gona do it anyway bro... :rolleyes:

after it ****S you up and give you NO gains and big sides YOU will be the new spokesman for TESTOSTERONE

please listen to what you are being told

idk why all these noobs dont wana use test?? wth?? test is FANTASTIC GUYS!!!

Personal experience, use test. The fat is from your diet and not enough anti'es. I just came off a bulker and only put on about 8lbs of fat and 12lbs of muscle and maybe 5lbs of water, and I had some pretty high doses of test dbol and eq

yeah he would be the poster boy of "this is your pecker without test (his) & this is your pecker with test" :lol: dude listen to them they know there shiit!! but go ahead and do it you too will learn...LOL!! jesus man do the research..or not and not use that little fukker for a good while

Listen to what he said "99 % of people say to use test"......then why wouldn't you??? tell me if you guys agree or not.....won't he get more a bloat running dbol and deca then with test alone???.....with test alone with a good diet, you will get nice lean gains.........if he doesn't want to listen then screw it....all of us tried.....we are all each to help each other out!.....

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Originally Posted by HeAtMaN05

Listen to what he said "99 % of people say to use test"......then why wouldn't you??? tell me if you guys agree or not.....won't he get more a bloat running dbol and deca then with test alone???.....with test alone with a good diet, you will get nice lean gains.........if he doesn't want to listen then screw it....all of us tried.....we are all each to help each other out!.....

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AMEN BROTHA!!! PREACH THE GOSPEL!! :banana: this is the holy banana jumping around like a dammn fool

first of all you boys need to chil out and not take it so personally!!
second of all no i wont do the cycle anyways if everyone tells me its not a good idea. im not ignorant. but i know one thing for sure alot of ppl make claims based on what they have heard, not necesarily from their own experiences.
i do have enough test for 12 weeks, i have icn enanthates. the amps i get smell alot like olive oil. could it be fake? that is the other problem i have with using it, the fact that i dont know if its fake or not. it looks like the real deal, and the source is well know from east europe. say if i used test, i would have to opt out from using deca or dbol, sicne again i want to reduce water and fat retention, and someone mentioned they have gained something like ONLY 8 pounds of fat, well bro, thats too much for me. i dont want to gain fat...maximum 2 pouns i guess, but no more. so 8 pounds is not okay with me. is that okay?!!!
but anyways. i will use test i guess, but im thinking i should replace all the other drugs with fina to go along with the test. how does 500mg test e + fina 40mp pd sound?

I put 8 lbs of fat on in 4months of bulking, and most of it above 6k cals a day. So for me to go from 212-236 lbs and put 90lbs on my squat, 8lbs of fat is nothing. I have dropped all the fat I put on while on my bulker plus lossed an additional 8. If you bulking I wouldnt worry to much about fat unless it gets really out of hand

"second of all no i wont do the cycle anyways if everyone tells me its not a good idea. im not ignorant. but i know one thing for sure alot of ppl make claims based on what they have heard, not necesarily from their own experiences"

I hear you dude, but there are a lot of good people on this board, you can do some reading and figure it out. Most of these guys know their S**T, plus why would you want to use your self as test subject anyway. FYI i just finished a CYP/Fina cycle and held no water, and actually lost fat, its all about your diet and sticking with your program. What i have leaned over the past 6 months is that people are here to help, keep an open mind but also keep skeptical until you know you have facts. Also, not to rush into anything...So, you think you have fake gear, if so, set it aside and find a good source. Once the time is right and you have EVERYTHING you need, then make that committment, you will be much happier with your results, and more importantly you wont damage you body.

Good luck bro...

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Originally Posted by detroit

"second of all no i wont do the cycle anyways if everyone tells me its not a good idea. im not ignorant. but i know one thing for sure alot of ppl make claims based on what they have heard, not necesarily from their own experiences"

I hear you dude, but there are a lot of good people on this board, you can do some reading and figure it out. Most of these guys know their S**T, plus why would you want to use your self as test subject anyway. FYI i just finished a CYP/Fina cycle and held no water, and actually lost fat, its all about your diet and sticking with your program. What i have leaned over the past 6 months is that people are here to help, keep an open mind but also keep skeptical until you know you have facts. Also, not to rush into anything...So, you think you have fake gear, if so, set it aside and find a good source. Once the time is right and you have EVERYTHING you need, then make that committment, you will be much happier with your results, and more importantly you wont damage you body.

Good luck bro...

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well said bro......glad to see some reasonable people on this board lol

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Originally Posted by detroit

"second of all no i wont do the cycle anyways if everyone tells me its not a good idea. im not ignorant. but i know one thing for sure alot of ppl make claims based on what they have heard, not necesarily from their own experiences"

I hear you dude, but there are a lot of good people on this board, you can do some reading and figure it out. Most of these guys know their S**T, plus why would you want to use your self as test subject anyway. FYI i just finished a CYP/Fina cycle and held no water, and actually lost fat, its all about your diet and sticking with your program. What i have leaned over the past 6 months is that people are here to help, keep an open mind but also keep skeptical until you know you have facts. Also, not to rush into anything...So, you think you have fake gear, if so, set it aside and find a good source. Once the time is right and you have EVERYTHING you need, then make that committment, you will be much happier with your results, and more importantly you wont damage you body.

Good luck bro...

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yeah thanks for that post, i appreciate it. i agree completely, for example with the suppliers situation i think i should review my old sources to the mods in this board, coz obviously if they are here than theyve been around long enough to know who im talking about, hopefully. so can i check these sources with the mods?

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Originally Posted by UrbanDawg

after it ****S you up and give you NO gains and big sides YOU will be the new spokesman for TESTOSTERONE

please listen to what you are being told

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he would get no gains from that cycle? and big sides? do you speak from experience? I doubt you do, I think you are regurgitating information that you've read on this board and others from people, who though they are experienced steroid users(not all), few are medical experts. The thing I like most about test is the test high and the 24-7 boner, the bloat sucks, coming off sucks, acne sucks, really oily skin sucks... I'll take a dry 5-7 and keep **** near all of it over the test 25. peace.

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Originally Posted by barbarian

bro ive done a cycle without test....and i ****ed me over..and i know for a FACt that with deca,winny, and d bol that much proviron aint gona cut it...test isnt bad man.. youl get more lean gains..and maybe lost some fat if you have test in there bro..test is best.. its the father of all hormones...a cycle isnt a "cycle" without it as a base

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What do you mean if f1#$^! you over. Did you get hurt? what are you talking about, do you just mean that you didn't recive the gains your were looking for where as you would have with it.

Thanks

one more thing. i dont see how dbol and deca would produce more bloat than a dbol test cycle. that does not make sence, assuming, for the sake of the argument, that the diet and excersise plan remains the same in the 2 cycles. i dont know, i have been thinking for a long time that a combination of highly anabolic drugs with an androgen, without the androgen/estrogen induced bloat and fat retention, would create very exceptional environment for very good muscle gain. sure i could agree that proviron would not work at 37.5mg pd, but suffice it to say, i can increase that dose without problems since i dont have to worry about any aromatization from the proviron.
and regarding the deca-dick theory. based on my own experiences, ive suffered through similar limp biskits on TEST cycles. i mean i remember i was half limp all the time on a test and dbol cycle. i have therefore concluded that the great increase in blood pressure, from the rapid muscle/water/fat gains, will hinder blood flow to atleast the secondary or least important body parts/organs, such as our johnys!! and thats what has happened for me, and i doubt that deca would kill my sex drive. thats not nesecarily what i can conclude, based on many scientific research on that matter. so all of this had made me wonder, ill say it again, if proviron at say 50mg pd, would not greatly help with sex drive and other assets, the things thats being claimed i will lose on a test free cycle.

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Originally Posted by redwizza

but tell me in all honesty bro, are you saying this based on SIMILAR experiences or because you have heard it from somewhere else....like what 99% of ppl say, that test must be included in EVERY cycle. i just feel that that is not true at all. and besides this, proviron has worked very well on me in the past, at only 25mg pd. my sperm count and libido actually went up compared to using test without the proviron. and i have used deca before and love the mass gains it gives me, yes i did use it with test but i hated the excess bloat and fat gains.

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How much do you weigh? And what is your current BF?

Test should be included period

i have DONE a test cycle and a ziliion other guys here ahave done MANY test cycles - or at east always used test in every cycle. Many guys have done cycles w/out TEST and reported lousy results and sides



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Originally Posted by redwizza

first of all you boys need to chil out and not take it so personally!!
second of all no i wont do the cycle anyways if everyone tells me its not a good idea. im not ignorant. but i know one thing for sure alot of ppl make claims based on what they have heard, not necesarily from their own experiences.
i do have enough test for 12 weeks, i have icn enanthates. the amps i get smell alot like olive oil. could it be fake? that is the other problem i have with using it, the fact that i dont know if its fake or not. it looks like the real deal, and the source is well know from east europe. say if i used test, i would have to opt out from using deca or dbol, sicne again i want to reduce water and fat retention, and someone mentioned they have gained something like ONLY 8 pounds of fat, well bro, thats too much for me. i dont want to gain fat...maximum 2 pouns i guess, but no more. so 8 pounds is not okay with me. is that okay?!!!
but anyways. i will use test i guess, but im thinking i should replace all the other drugs with fina to go along with the test. how does 500mg test e + fina 40mp pd sound?

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It took me months after a deca cycle to get myself back to feeling normal

If water retention is a big concern, why not add test prop in that as your test compound?

ok the best thing i can come up with, instead of using test at a full dose, i will use it at 250mg pw, along with 500-600mg of deca, and some proviron. is it ok to use it like that, just as a replacement dose of nat. test levels? remember im using proviron too

The test needs to be run higher than your deca dose