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  1. #1
    BASK8KACE is offline Anabolic Member
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    INFO: How to choose a good anti-e or anti-e combination.

    I wrote the following in response to a qestion posed by Lozgod. I felt that this would be a good stand alone thread since it delved a bit deeper than the origninally titled post "Nolvadex vs. Proviron "

    Which anti-estrogen (anti-e) combination should I use?

    Direct Answer to the Question:

    My choices would change based on what I was using in my cycle:

    1. If I were not using deca in a cycle, then my first choice would be Arimidex alone since it is one of the strongest, most effective anti-e's.
    2. If I were running deca in a cycle, then I would use Proviron due to its secondary effect on erections to counteract deca dick.
    3. If I found via blood tests that my lipids (specifically HDL) where heavily and badly affected by my cycle, I would use Nolvadex with Arimidex, or Nolvadex with Proviron (based on whether deca was in the cycle, as noted in sections 1 and 2 above) or, I would choose Nolvadex alone, with a solid good PCT plan to prevent estrogen rebound (see below).

    Background Information:

    Clenbuterol is neither an anti-estorgen (anti-e) nor a steroid hormone; it is a beta-2-symphatomimetic. Clenbuterol is a strong anti-catabolic, which means it decreases the rate at which protein is reduced in the muscle cell, consequently causing an enlargement of muscle cells. For this reason, people use Clenbuterol after a cycle to minimize catabolisim and thus maintain maximum strength and muscle mass.

    Proviron, arimidex, and L-dex (liquid version of Arimidex) inhibit the aromitization of testosterone to estrogen while Nolvadex blocks the estrogen from doing any harm by blocking the estrogen receptors (estrogen antagonist).

    The good and the bad:

    Nolvadex is good to have on hand if you begin to have gyno symptoms, because it blocks the estrogen. By the time you see any bad symptoms due to estrogen, it's too late to use an aromitization inhibitor such as Proviron, arimidex, or l-dex.

    Again,
    Nolvadex does not control the amount of estrogen, it just blocks it from getting to receptors, so after you stop using Nolvadex, there might be a lot of estrogen still in your system that can do harm. Some have experienced a reboud effect when using Nolvadex: After they stop using it the estrogen that has built up in the system reaches estrogen receptors and causes problems that were delayed by using Novladex.


    Think of it like this:

    Proviron, arimidex, and l-dex prevent the fire from starting. Nolvadex suppresses/temporarily extinguishes the fire after it has already begun.

    Furthermore:

    Inhibitors such as a-dex and femara effect lipids(primarily HDL) because estrogen greatly contributes in the stabilization of cholesterol. If you inhibit the production of estrogen, the lipid environment can become "unstable." **

    Nolva being a
    SERM, helps eliminate blood estrogen by binding to the receptor, but doesn't prevent conversion (as noted above); in addition it mimics liver and bone estrogen which help in creating a healthy heart environment.**

    **--NOTE: The two paragraphs (immediately above) marked with asterisks are paraphrased paragraphs from a post by PHEEDNO.


    Extra info:

    SERM
    SELECTIVE ESTROGEN RECEPTOR MODULATORS

    The group of drugs classified as
    SERM selectively acts on estrogen receptors present in different tissues and organs: breast, uterus, bones. Their agonistic action on bone and lipid metabolism has been documented in clinical trials. Positive influence on bones appears as the inhibition of bone resorption (confirmed with bone markers) and estrogen-like increase in bone mineral density, and in consequence decrease in the risk of osteoporotic bone fractures. Their agonistic action on lipids is shown as the decrease in serum total cholesterol, LDL-cholesterol, without significant influence on HDL-cholesterol and TG.

    SERM do not stimulate the uterus and breast, contrary to estrogens which increase the risk of neoplasms. Their unfavorable influence on the activation markers of hemostasis and fibrinolysis was not found.
    Last edited by BASK8KACE; 05-28-2004 at 02:11 AM.

  2. #2
    gixxer's Avatar
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    Great post,when your looking at Proviron for Deca -D.50mgs ED good.

    Also since it's good for Deca,Proviron should be good for Tren right?

  3. #3
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    good info!

  4. #4
    kronik is offline Senior Member
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    great post bro, I had some questions about his post and this clarified them for me.

  5. #5
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    Nice post Bro

  6. #6
    Lozgod's Avatar
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    This should be.....uh I forget the word, but saved in the educational threads.

  7. #7
    Da Bull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lozgod
    This should be.....uh I forget the word, but saved in the educational threads.
    Sticky is the word you were hunting for....and prob better in the pct forum.

  8. #8
    powerlifter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da Bull
    Sticky is the word you were hunting for....and prob better in the pct forum.

  9. #9
    BASK8KACE is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da Bull
    Sticky is the word you were hunting for....and prob better in the pct forum.
    Since this is not about PCT, I don't think it should be moved to the PCT forum. It's mainly about using anti-e's during a cycle.

  10. #10
    Lozgod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BASK8KACE
    Since this is not about PCT, I don't think it should be moved to the PCT forum. It's mainly about using anti-e's during a cycle.

    Agreed. How do you get something stickyed?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lozgod
    Agreed. How do you get something stickyed?
    You pay me $100 and I make it happen

  12. #12
    Lozgod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PuddleMonkey
    You pay me $100 and I make it happen
    You have a PM. It has my Visa number.

  13. #13
    Da Bull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BASK8KACE
    Since this is not about PCT, I don't think it should be moved to the PCT forum. It's mainly about using anti-e's during a cycle.
    My bad..I was under the impression the pct forum talked about proper use of SERM and IA as well.Good post regardless.
    Last edited by Da Bull; 05-28-2004 at 12:47 PM.

  14. #14
    Lozgod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PuddleMonkey
    You pay me $100 and I make it happen

    Actually I do have a hundred if something can happen with me and that girl in your avatar.

    (If it is an important woman in your life I apoligize in advance.)

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lozgod
    Actually I do have a hundred if something can happen with me and that girl in your avatar.
    (If it is an important woman in your life I apoligize in advance.)
    Sure, she says for $100 she'll gladly pierce your penis for you with a rusty nail. Whadda say?

  16. #16
    Lozgod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PuddleMonkey
    Sure, she says for $100 she'll gladly pierce your penis for you with a rusty nail. Whadda say?
    OUCH!!!!! I had pins on cycle better yet rusty nails in my penis.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lozgod
    OUCH!!!!! I had pins on cycle better yet rusty nails in my penis.
    If I were you I'd jump all over that deal. I had to pay $150 for the same service.

  18. #18
    Essy is offline Associate Member
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    What about Femera-letrozole ? You didnt mention it.

  19. #19
    TRE's Avatar
    TRE
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    Yeah Femera needs to be put in there. I have been trying to learn as much as possible about femera lately. Strongest Anti E on the market.

  20. #20
    Lozgod's Avatar
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    Does anyone think this should be sticky. I do. It is great info.

  21. #21
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    bump... a mod add this to sticky please.

  22. #22
    TRE's Avatar
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    I think femera needs to be added for it to be permanent in my opinion. Great post but needs all the anti-es and there info.

  23. #23
    BASK8KACE is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRE
    I think femera needs to be added for it to be permanent in my opinion. Great post but needs all the anti-es and there info.
    TRE,

    I agree.

    Since you've been doing some research on femera, feel free to write out something here. Post it, I'll add some extra comments (if any at all) and the cut and paste it to the first post. Try to keep it in the same vein of the first post if you decide to type something. I'll obviously mention that it was written (or paraphrased) from what you write.
    Last edited by BASK8KACE; 06-01-2004 at 11:59 PM.

  24. #24
    Lozgod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BASK8KACE
    TRE,

    I agree. S

    ince you've been doing some research on femera, feel free to write out something here. Post it, I'll add some extra comments (if any at all) and the cut and paste it to the first post. Try to keep it in the same vein of the first post if you decide to type something. I'll obviously mention that it was written (or paraphrased) from what you write.
    Well revamp it and lets get it sticky'ed. I loved it personally. Vital info.

  25. #25
    Lozgod's Avatar
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    I just cut and pasted it and put it in an Email to myself. Making my own stickies.

  26. #26
    Dakota280 is offline New Member
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    hey bro can you clear one thing for me, this research site makes these names hard to figure out, lol

    I think these are all anit-e's:
    Liqui-Atorvastin
    Liquid Exemestane
    Liquid Letrozole
    Liquisteride
    Sildenafil Citrate
    Tamoxifen Citrate
    Polyethylene Glycol

    if anyone could tell me what each on is in as tearms it would be greatly appreciated

  27. #27
    Lozgod's Avatar
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    bumpy good read.

  28. #28
    punk_bbuilder's Avatar
    punk_bbuilder is offline Senior Member
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    i smell a sticky!! great info

  29. #29
    Shredder's Avatar
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    I thought the bloat from deca is from progesterone not estrogen. so armidex would be useless. And Adex cannot penaterate the fat cells for estrogen. But Fammera can. Thats why Fam would be a better choice than ldex. But for building muscle Ldex would be better cause it leaves like 6% of estrogen anabolic activity while Fam would only leave 2% estrogen activity and block the rest. Also Fam will increase the growth hormone release and keep LDL in check. While the others will do the opposite.
    Last edited by Shredder; 06-05-2004 at 11:26 PM.

  30. #30
    redwizza is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by BASK8KACE
    I wrote the following in response to a qestion posed by Lozgod. I felt that this would be a good stand alone thread since it delved a bit deeper than the origninally titled post "Nolvadex vs. Proviron "

    Which anti-estrogen (anti-e) combination should I use?

    Direct Answer to the Question:

    My choices would change based on what I was using in my cycle:

    1. If I were not using deca in a cycle, then my first choice would be Arimidex alone since it is one of the strongest, most effective anti-e's.
    2. If I were running deca in a cycle, then I would use Proviron due to its secondary effect on erections to counteract deca dick.
    3. If I found via blood tests that my lipids (specifically HDL) where heavily and badly affected by my cycle, I would use Nolvadex with Arimidex, or Nolvadex with Proviron (based on whether deca was in the cycle, as noted in sections 1 and 2 above) or, I would choose Nolvadex alone, with a solid good PCT plan to prevent estrogen rebound (see below).

    Background Information:

    Clenbuterol is neither an anti-estorgen (anti-e) nor a steroid hormone; it is a beta-2-symphatomimetic. Clenbuterol is a strong anti-catabolic, which means it decreases the rate at which protein is reduced in the muscle cell, consequently causing an enlargement of muscle cells. For this reason, people use Clenbuterol after a cycle to minimize catabolisim and thus maintain maximum strength and muscle mass.

    Proviron, arimidex, and L-dex (liquid version of Arimidex) inhibit the aromitization of testosterone to estrogen while Nolvadex blocks the estrogen from doing any harm by blocking the estrogen receptors (estrogen antagonist).

    The good and the bad:

    Nolvadex is good to have on hand if you begin to have gyno symptoms, because it blocks the estrogen. By the time you see any bad symptoms due to estrogen, it's too late to use an aromitization inhibitor such as Proviron, arimidex, or l-dex.

    Again,
    Nolvadex does not control the amount of estrogen, it just blocks it from getting to receptors, so after you stop using Nolvadex, there might be a lot of estrogen still in your system that can do harm. Some have experienced a reboud effect when using Nolvadex: After they stop using it the estrogen that has built up in the system reaches estrogen receptors and causes problems that were delayed by using Novladex.


    Think of it like this:

    Proviron, arimidex, and l-dex prevent the fire from starting. Nolvadex suppresses/temporarily extinguishes the fire after it has already begun.

    Furthermore:

    Inhibitors such as a-dex and femara effect lipids(primarily HDL) because estrogen greatly contributes in the stabilization of cholesterol. If you inhibit the production of estrogen, the lipid environment can become "unstable." **

    Nolva being a
    SERM, helps eliminate blood estrogen by binding to the receptor, but doesn't prevent conversion (as noted above); in addition it mimics liver and bone estrogen which help in creating a healthy heart environment.**

    **--NOTE: The two paragraphs (immediately above) marked with asterisks are paraphrased paragraphs from a post by PHEEDNO.


    Extra info:

    SERM
    SELECTIVE ESTROGEN RECEPTOR MODULATORS

    The group of drugs classified as
    SERM selectively acts on estrogen receptors present in different tissues and organs: breast, uterus, bones. Their agonistic action on bone and lipid metabolism has been documented in clinical trials. Positive influence on bones appears as the inhibition of bone resorption (confirmed with bone markers) and estrogen-like increase in bone mineral density, and in consequence decrease in the risk of osteoporotic bone fractures. Their agonistic action on lipids is shown as the decrease in serum total cholesterol, LDL-cholesterol, without significant influence on HDL-cholesterol and TG.

    SERM do not stimulate the uterus and breast, contrary to estrogens which increase the risk of neoplasms. Their unfavorable influence on the activation markers of hemostasis and fibrinolysis was not found.
    ive tried both proviron and nolva on cycle
    i like the proviron way more
    it adds to the cycle in a very postive way
    gains are more solid, and are not hindered as it is theorised with nolva use.

  31. #31
    BASK8KACE is offline Anabolic Member
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    Bump for Spoon to find.

  32. #32
    Spoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BASK8KACE
    I wrote the following in response to a qestion posed by Lozgod. I felt that this would be a good stand alone thread since it delved a bit deeper than the origninally titled post "Nolvadex vs. Proviron "

    Which anti-estrogen (anti-e) combination should I use?

    Direct Answer to the Question:

    My choices would change based on what I was using in my cycle:

    1. If I were not using deca in a cycle, then my first choice would be Arimidex alone since it is one of the strongest, most effective anti-e's.
    2. If I were running deca in a cycle, then I would use Proviron due to its secondary effect on erections to counteract deca dick.
    3. If I found via blood tests that my lipids (specifically HDL) where heavily and badly affected by my cycle, I would use Nolvadex with Arimidex, or Nolvadex with Proviron (based on whether deca was in the cycle, as noted in sections 1 and 2 above) or, I would choose Nolvadex alone, with a solid good PCT plan to prevent estrogen rebound (see below).

    Background Information:

    Clenbuterol is neither an anti-estorgen (anti-e) nor a steroid hormone; it is a beta-2-symphatomimetic. Clenbuterol is a strong anti-catabolic, which means it decreases the rate at which protein is reduced in the muscle cell, consequently causing an enlargement of muscle cells. For this reason, people use Clenbuterol after a cycle to minimize catabolisim and thus maintain maximum strength and muscle mass.

    Proviron, arimidex, and L-dex (liquid version of Arimidex) inhibit the aromitization of testosterone to estrogen while Nolvadex blocks the estrogen from doing any harm by blocking the estrogen receptors (estrogen antagonist).

    The good and the bad:

    Nolvadex is good to have on hand if you begin to have gyno symptoms, because it blocks the estrogen. By the time you see any bad symptoms due to estrogen, it's too late to use an aromitization inhibitor such as Proviron, arimidex, or l-dex.

    Again,
    Nolvadex does not control the amount of estrogen, it just blocks it from getting to receptors, so after you stop using Nolvadex, there might be a lot of estrogen still in your system that can do harm. Some have experienced a reboud effect when using Nolvadex: After they stop using it the estrogen that has built up in the system reaches estrogen receptors and causes problems that were delayed by using Novladex.


    Think of it like this:

    Proviron, arimidex, and l-dex prevent the fire from starting. Nolvadex suppresses/temporarily extinguishes the fire after it has already begun.

    Furthermore:

    Inhibitors such as a-dex and femara effect lipids(primarily HDL) because estrogen greatly contributes in the stabilization of cholesterol. If you inhibit the production of estrogen, the lipid environment can become "unstable." **

    Nolva being a
    SERM, helps eliminate blood estrogen by binding to the receptor, but doesn't prevent conversion (as noted above); in addition it mimics liver and bone estrogen which help in creating a healthy heart environment.**

    **--NOTE: The two paragraphs (immediately above) marked with asterisks are paraphrased paragraphs from a post by PHEEDNO.


    Extra info:

    SERM
    SELECTIVE ESTROGEN RECEPTOR MODULATORS

    The group of drugs classified as
    SERM selectively acts on estrogen receptors present in different tissues and organs: breast, uterus, bones. Their agonistic action on bone and lipid metabolism has been documented in clinical trials. Positive influence on bones appears as the inhibition of bone resorption (confirmed with bone markers) and estrogen-like increase in bone mineral density, and in consequence decrease in the risk of osteoporotic bone fractures. Their agonistic action on lipids is shown as the decrease in serum total cholesterol, LDL-cholesterol, without significant influence on HDL-cholesterol and TG.

    SERM do not stimulate the uterus and breast, contrary to estrogens which increase the risk of neoplasms. Their unfavorable influence on the activation markers of hemostasis and fibrinolysis was not found.
    so what do you suggest bro, using an inhibitor or an antagonist; which is better i am just taking test enth/eq. ?

  33. #33
    BajanBastard is offline VET Retired
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    I disagree a bit with using proviron with nolva in the case of bad lipid profile....i would opt to use nolva alone because proviron have been shown to badly affect blood lipid profiles in spme ppl.

  34. #34
    BASK8KACE is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spoon
    so what do you suggest bro, using an inhibitor or an antagonist; which is better i am just taking test enth/eq. ?
    There are many alternatives, bro should do a search and come to your own conclusion. But...

    I can tell you that I would prefer to use (in order of preference):
    1. Proviron alone,
    2. Arimidex alone,
    2. A mix of Arimidex WITH nolvadex (using nolvadex only to regulate HDL and LDL). I personally would not use nolvadex alone due to the possiblity of the rebound effect which I mentioned to you earlier in a PM.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by BASK8KACE
    There are many alternatives, bro should do a search and come to your own conclusion. But...

    I can tell you that I would prefer to use (in order of preference):
    1. Proviron alone,
    2. Arimidex alone,
    2. A mix of Arimidex WITH nolvadex (using nolvadex only to regulate HDL and LDL). I personally would not use nolvadex alone due to the possiblity of the rebound effect which I mentioned to you earlier in a PM.
    thanks bro got it

  36. #36
    Da Bull's Avatar
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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  37. #37
    kronik is offline Senior Member
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    bump

  38. #38
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    what the

  39. #39
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    hey....i thought Deca and Bromo comes together as a combo...Bromo should be preffered in a cycle with deca alongwith any other anti-e (nolva).
    just my hummble opinion...


    Respect

  40. #40
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    i have heard alot of bad stuff about bromo. i am using along with alot of other people i know dostinex. supposley much stronger

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