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  1. #1
    Justarting is offline Associate Member
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    IS Sustanon ruining my cut?!

    K guys i just dont get it, I've been cutting for a month and taking clenbuterol , tapering up for like a week now. Im at 180mcg's per day without any shakes. For gear I am taking 250mg's of sustanon every 3rd day, and to combat estrogen, 20mg's of nolvadex ED. My question is my diet(listed below) seems to be almost perfect as im 175 pounds(in fact most would consider it to low calories correct?) but I'm still not losing weight and In my opinion I'm not making changes in the mirror, and my body fat appears to be the same,(its difficult to tell on calipers)!! How is this possible? Is it the sustanons fault or what? Plz dont tell me to ditch the sust and go get som prop or something cuz thats not an option, i have like 40 amps of sust here i dont want to waste. Anyways tho, here is my diet... low carb daily with hi simple carb(usually apple juice) post workout.

    Meal 1-3/4 cup of oats
    -1.5 scoops of Optimum Whey
    Gets me about 30g carb, and 35 g protein and about 280 cals

    CARDIO- HIIT FOR 36 MINUTES AFTER 3 HOURS NOT EATING
    Meal 2- Can of Tuna
    -.5 Tablespoon of peanut butter
    - two slicces of lean turkey
    That gets me about 40 grams protein, and like 7 grams fat, 300 cals

    Meal 3- 2 chikcen breasts
    Salad with light dressing(dressing has 13 cals)
    thats about 20 gram carb and 40 gram protien

    MORE CARDIO- 20 Minute HIIT
    Meal 4-1 cup of Low carb(2g) Flax Oatmeal
    1 chicken breast
    That gets me about 45 grams of protein and 8 grams EFAS

    Meal 5- This meal was just to get more protein as i felt i was lacking
    -STEAK
    I ate about 200 cals and 40 grams protein of it

    Meal 6- Steak
    - Low carb Oatmeal
    That gets me around 350cals, 52 grams of protein and aanother 8 grams of EFAS

    All in all this diet gets me about 235 grams of protein, Very few carbs with most of them coming from fibrous sources throught the day and it appears to be only around 1700-1750 cals. THE ONLY OTHER THINGS I PUT IN MY MOUTH THAT DAY are 1. I eat a lot of gum so maybe about 12 pieces of sugar free gum. 2. I drank half a can of diet coke caffeeine free.
    I took Clenbuterol, 100mcgs fi9rst thing in nthe morning, then 80 mcgs at 3 pm. Before cardio i took 400 mg's of caffeeine, and made sure to get about 1.8 gallons of water trohought the day. WHY AM I NOT IMPROVING!? I HAVE GIVEN IT A MONTH, AND I HAVE BEEN GRADUALLY RESTRICTING MORE AND MORE CALORIES BUT I STILL GAIN WEIGHT!

  2. #2
    not2bigyet's Avatar
    not2bigyet is offline Member
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    are you sure it isn't water you are retaining from the sust?

  3. #3
    J*U*icEd's Avatar
    J*U*icEd is offline Anabolic Member
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    bro to be honest with you...thats alot of test to think your not going to gain weight let alone think your going to loose weight.....the test is goin to cause water retention even if your runnin nolva....but good luck!

  4. #4
    Justarting is offline Associate Member
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    but am i able to get cut with it or not? I know ill be gaining weight with test, but i shouldn't be gaining fat. Typically ppl with high testosterone are leaner aren't they. Also, what would be the effects if i were to take cytomel when this second week is up? Ill have to research it a bit first, but what do u think would happen? Would it work better for me in my situation?
    Last edited by Justarting; 05-29-2004 at 11:11 AM.

  5. #5
    abstrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justarting
    but am i able to get cut with it or not? I know ill be gaining weight with test, but i shouldn't be gaining fat. Typically ppl with high testosterone are leaner aren't they.
    No who told you that? or is it you just made this up?

    testosterone levels have nothing to do with bf% and sus is not a compound I would use for cutting.

  6. #6
    abstrack's Avatar
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    also you are trying to cut, why are you taking in carbs before your cardio session? that makes no sense to me what so ever. also 36 mins of cardio? you not just testing the waters here, so do 40-45 mins. Also why do cardio 2x's per day and why HIT ? I dont see any training session either? are you just doing cardio?

  7. #7
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    try usring l'dex with only 10mg nolva/ed. thats a killer anti-e combo that would pretty much eliminate water retention. also, do your morning cardio on an empty stomach

  8. #8
    UrbanLegend's Avatar
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    Sust is just a poor version of testosterone , which can be used for cutting, but not to get leaner with, just to retain the muscle while dieting. Thats all steroids will do: retain the muscle.

  9. #9
    Justarting is offline Associate Member
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    Guys i think ur getting really nit picky on me here, like whats the HUGE difference between doing 2 cardio sessions or one, its not gonna destroy me is it. And Hiit has been proven to be more effective at burning fat. Well, since the test has put me into such a anabolic state, do u think that running cytomel would help me? I know that its most often suggested to use gear while runnning Cytomel because it is so effective at using body tissue for energy. Also in response to the carbs before cardio, my cardio is about 3 hours after my last meal always so most of the carbs have already been used for short term energy, i should have noted that.

  10. #10
    Justarting is offline Associate Member
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    ??????????????

  11. #11
    abstrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justarting
    Guys i think ur getting really nit picky on me here, like whats the HUGE difference between doing 2 cardio sessions or one, its not gonna destroy me is it. And Hiit has been proven to be more effective at burning fat. Well, since the test has put me into such a anabolic state, do u think that running cytomel would help me? I know that its most often suggested to use gear while runnning Cytomel because it is so effective at using body tissue for energy. Also in response to the carbs before cardio, my cardio is about 3 hours after my last meal always so most of the carbs have already been used for short term energy, i should have noted that.
    why would you want to run t-3 to burn tissue? your lean muscle tissue burns the majority of your fat throughout the day.

    hit is not, I repete not a better way to burn fat


    i think if you diet was better you would be ble to drop fat but you're so fixed on the fact that those carbs are ok that you're at a stale mate with loosing fat.

  12. #12
    BodyMechanic's Avatar
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    honestly for what you are trying to acheive you should have been taking winny instead of sus. being o such a low calorie diet and trying to get lean it would suited you more.

  13. #13
    Dude-Man's Avatar
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    take .25 mg arimidex each day. that should cut down the bloat.

  14. #14
    Anhydro78's Avatar
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    Not to down you but why are you cutting if you are only 175lbs? what body fat percentage are you at right now???? I have a friend that is dieting doing cardio at the moment. He wont listen to a **** thing I say. He also wants to be a big. And hes natural and pissed off that im getting so big. well we figured out his fat percentage at 18% right at 195 lbs. so basically once he cuts down hes goona be a lean 170.

    If you are taking 180mcg of clen and you dont have the shakes maybe your clen is bogus.

    Also you are showing that you are doing cardio twice a week right??? And have you allready been doing the same amount of cardio before this official cutting cycle?? If so cardio is just like weight training you have to increase the stress applied to your body to make it adapt. You have to progressivly increase the time you do cardio as well as intensity. Or your results/adaptation will stop. Plus when doing cardio you dont even start to oxydize fat untill you have elevated your heart at the target rate for twenty minutes. Then anything after that is the most benifical part of the cardio training.

    I would increase your time,speed, sessions that you do cardio. If you are not intrested in growing and just want to cut up there is nothing wrong with taking a little test to spare your muscles from wasting away when doing cardio and dieting.

    Aromitize inhibitors like armidex will keep estrogen levels down and prevent fat deposits. so will nolvadex and clomid.

    Hope you the best of success!!!!!!

  15. #15
    bjayg's Avatar
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    sust is the wrong choice for try to get cut or see any kind of definition. you should have used a single ester test like prop with the winny, clen , and diet you have there. the results would have been much better. hope your drinkin a lot of water to rid all the toxins in your body, it will also help burn fat, but again ditch the sust your defeating your purpose bro.......i got lean from prop and winny without hardly any cardio.
    Last edited by bjayg; 05-30-2004 at 09:21 AM.

  16. #16
    Justarting is offline Associate Member
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    yeah i do cardio everyday, i dont see where u got the two times per week??? Alright abstrack, ummm i really dont think the 20 grams of fibrous carbs THREE HOURS BEFORE will effect my cardio session to the point where it either decides if i lose weight or not but okay, im gonna start doing my cardio first thing in the morning and see how that goes followed up by a fat and protein meal.

    On another note, u guys suggest prop, im assuming since sustanons blood levels never get consistent correct, if I were to inject sustanon every 2 days, that would take advantage of the prop in it and give me more consistent blood levels would it not? I say this because i still have like 20 amps of sustanon left that i want to use up.
    And assuming i do get some prop, would i be able to inject every 2nd day just for my sanity's sake. And if I do inject every 2nd day, how long would it take for the sustanon related water to wear off and adapt more to the prop in my body? THANKS!

  17. #17
    bjayg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justarting
    yeah i do cardio everyday, i dont see where u got the two times per week??? Alright abstrack, ummm i really dont think the 20 grams of fibrous carbs THREE HOURS BEFORE will effect my cardio session to the point where it either decides if i lose weight or not but okay, im gonna start doing my cardio first thing in the morning and see how that goes followed up by a fat and protein meal.

    On another note, u guys suggest prop, im assuming since sustanons blood levels never get consistent correct, if I were to inject sustanon every 2 days, that would take advantage of the prop in it and give me more consistent blood levels would it not? I say this because i still have like 20 amps of sustanon left that i want to use up.
    And assuming i do get some prop, would i be able to inject every 2nd day just for my sanity's sake. And if I do inject every 2nd day, how long would it take for the sustanon related water to wear off and adapt more to the prop in my body? THANKS!
    prop only will releve you of the bloat. the other 3 esters in the sus are why your getting bloated..............imo

  18. #18
    Anhydro78's Avatar
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    You are gonna have bloat do to elevated estrogen levels, from an increased testosterone level. period! unless you take aromitize inhibitor or receptor blocker.

    Like I said before if you take clen at 180mcg dose and you dont feel wigged out then.
    you have either stayed on it too long.Or its Bunk.

    It is said that when doing cardio you should not have any carb intake to force your body oxydize fat.

  19. #19
    Justarting is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anhydro78
    You are gonna have bloat do to elevated estrogen levels, from an increased testosterone level. period! unless you take aromitize inhibitor or receptor blocker.

    Like I said before if you take clen at 180mcg dose and you dont feel wigged out then.
    you have either stayed on it too long.Or its Bunk.

    It is said that when doing cardio you should not have any carb intake to force your body oxydize fat.

    Oh, no my clen is good, i just break up dosages per day... thats not a concern, i can feel my heart beating harder and stuff just dont get shakes, the first dose i took i got lots of shakes but not anymore, just fast heart.

  20. #20
    Justarting is offline Associate Member
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    Also in regarsds to my other question? Should i frequently inject less sust or should i go and get some prop? Once i begin injecting prop, how long will it take to notice the water starting to wear off? thanks

  21. #21
    Anhydro78's Avatar
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    As soon as you estrogen levels go down. If you are on a cutter you really should be taking armidex and nolvadex to prevent aromitization and block estrogen at the receptors. Test prop, Winny, Equipoise , are taken during in a cutting cycle because they dont aromitize as much (winny doesnt at all)/ preventing fat deposits.

    If you take testosterone by itself you are gonna have elavated estrogen levels. You use these drugs though in a cutting cycle to prevent muscle from breaking down while on a low calorie diet and while doing excessive cardio.

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