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I posted a thread like this before but it seemed to have disappeared when those minor problems were going on.
Goal.....Quality lean keepable gains. Less sides. Better all around.
12 week cycle
With Test of course.
Which is better EQ or Deca?
People with experience with both please. No educated guesses.
EQ all day........
No chance of deca gyno,less bloat,IMO better gain retention.....Ive used both...
this is what i want to know too. But if i were you id throw in 200-100mg deca per week for joint support ;). What kind of eq dose would go well with 500mg of test cyp per week?
agree about the deca.Quote:
Originally Posted by ST240
I say about 400 mg of eq.weekly
and stop one week short of the test i think .
Thats what the experts here have teach me,and has worked. :banana:
Contrary to popular belief, Deca and Eq are completely different gears, both have a high gain retention rate, but that's where it ends.
Since your goals read "Quality "lean" keepable gains" I'd say EQ since water ret. will be minimal. But EQ needs to be Ran very high, and very long, or it's a waste IMO.
However if you're talking "gains" only, Deca is your winner...Hands Down.
I am running both right now with zero sides on 600mg of B-6, 10mg Nolva, and .5 ml L-Dex.
TSW
though i like both in the last couple years i have been using EQ instead of Deca because of the bloat although it has never been that bad for me. As for as deca goes for joint support i know it is supposed to help but my experience and i have done deca many times over the last nine years and it has never helped me with joint problems.
That is a very interesting topic. I have had 3 or 4 people tell me that Deca doesn't really do much for their joints, which astounds me because it does wonders for me, and it makes me wonder why it works for some and not others...I once thought it was the guys that retain more water received the most benefit, until I met a guy that just won't "bloat" that said the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by BodyMechanic
Works for me though.
TSW
LOL...your grocery bill must be murder. :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSevnthWarrior
also EQ has a was shorter detection time
lol...it is, that the only down side so far though, if you can keep the Progesterone/Prolactin issues at bay, it's actually a very complimentry stack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Bull
TSW
Yep..I'm running them side by side in my upcoming cycle as well.I'm just going to drop the deca at week 12,but the EQ will go to wk 28 or so.All with other goodies as well. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSevnthWarrior
Yep, that pretty close to how I'm doin' it as well...I'm about to drop the Deca down to just 200mg weekly for joint maintainence, but up my EQ to 800mg, and add Fina/Var....with Test of course ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Bull
TSW
Equipoise has less sides, one being less aromization.which means less fat and water retention. And has just as good of collagen synthesis rate. And cross linking integrity.
Here is a post from another site
Nandrolone, popularly known as Deca, is a classified as a progestin. Deca derives many of its benefits from its progestenic nature: including, but not limited to, increase IM fat storage and increased fluid retention in the joints from glucocorticoid(GC) stimulation.
Deca is the most widely used form of prescription contraception in the first world. Deca is superior to testosterone as a form of birth control because its progestenic effects which result in rapid onset of azoospermia. Progestins are used similarly in women, progestins given to women in birth control pills and other drugs such as norgestrel and norethidrone are classified as 19-nor-testosterone or 19 nor- progesterone derivatives. Natural progesterone plays an important role in sexual arousal- affecting GABA to a considerable extent. The addition of progestins like deca which compete with progesterone and decrease its production may result in drastically reduced sexual arousal. Interestingly enough, the chemical castration of sex offenders, is acheived through the use of a 19-nortestosterone derivative.
This brings us to the second most common problem with the use of progestenic drugs like Deca, the breast tissue has both PR(progesterone receptors) and ER(estrogen receptors) and stimulation of either will result in new tissue formation and growth. This will vary considerably from individual to individuals based on the numbers and ratio of receptors in the tissue. Some individuals have more PR, which will make them more susceptable to Gyno. Another suspected factor is that there are slightly physiologically different PR, as well as ER and AR, which may effect binding and expression of synthetic progestins either positively or negatively.
The use of Anti-estrogens and Aromatase-inhibitors will help by reducing stimulation of the ER in the breast tissue. However, those with high concentrations of PR or PR whose physiology allows for greater binding or expression of progestins will be faced with developing Gynomacastia.
In short
1. DECA dick is real
2. DECA does cause Gyno
3. DECA is progestin it must be fought with anti-progestins
4. Use of Nolvadex and Arimidex will help, but only by reducing ER stimulation.
Good Post Interesting reading!Quote:
Originally Posted by Anhydro78
Good post, would also add that EQ dick can be real for some to. Recommend not to do it alone and to supplement test every time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anhydro78
I just have EQ experience and I love it, the longer on the better, doing 14 weeks with 15 weeks test e.
My favorite stack is 500 mg/week each of testoviron and eq for 12 weeks and proviron or arimidex the whole cycle.
The only other stack I do is 400 mg/week deca and 500 mg/wk sustenon with d-bol the first 4 weeks - proviron or arimidex throughout for 10 weeks.
Deca gives me more strength and size but I retain more fat too. eq is a harder leaner gain. i'd have to use winstrol with deca/sustenon to get the same hard cut look and feel.
deca does wonders for my joints. i've actually added deca to my eq/test cycles just for the joint relief. not everyone notices this effect though.
deca does shut down my natural production harder too and takes longer to get over. that's another reason eq wins in my book.
The only thing I hate about eq is that it takes 5 or 6 weeks to kick in whereas deca takes 3 or 4. the big downside to eq being such a long ester is it also takes a long time to get out of your system so you end up doing long cycles and being shut down for that long takes a long off-time to recover.
I vote for Boldenone.
600mg of b-6 per day?!?!?!Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSevnthWarrior
jesus man i heard anything over 200mg can be very toxic
so i was looking for keepable mass: i have these options
500mg test enan/cyp per week 11 weeks
35mg d-bol for first 4 weeks
WITH
350mg deca per week
or
200mg deca per week + 400mg eq per week
or
500 eq per week
which would yield more KEEPABLE mass.
On a side note, it is VERY had for me to get any form of l-dex, so can i get away with like 200mg B-6, 20 mg nolva ED?
u can get l-dex from a research site. very easy and reliable
I have yet to do a Deca and Equipoise cycle together. But just recently a guru from another site strongly recomended it to me.
I am currently on this cycle
800mgs of testosterone cypionate E/W
400mgs of Deca Deconate E/w
Anadrol 50mgs for the first 25 days or so.
Im useing propionate to start and end my cycle
This is a 12 weeker. And at week 7 so far I have gained 30lbs to date(Some being fat). Still have 5 more weeks to go so this should be a good one!!!!!
I use Deca or Equipoise In any cycle that I do!!! Wouldnt have it any other way.
I just read your post scottp999 yeah I cant tell people enough on here that choosing a cycle with out Test first of all is a bad decision, At least take some type of androgen with all mostly Anabolic compounds, Deca, Equipoise,ect....
i really like deca and eq together... but i digress.
LozGod- I would run the eq without deca with what your goals are. lean, keepable gains are what eq is made for.
id run it no less than 12 weeks, but personally, i wouldnt run it less than 14 weeks at 600 mgs.