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View Poll Results: Which would you choose if it's all you could use for your next 3 cycles? (why?)

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  • Tren & Test (any kind of test)

    41 49.40%
  • Deca & Test (any kind of test)

    29 34.94%
  • Anavar (Var) & Test (any kind of test)

    4 4.82%
  • EQ & Test (any kind of test)

    9 10.84%
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  1. #1
    BASK8KACE is offline Anabolic Member
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    Tren/test vs. Deca/test stack

    I've been doing some research on Tren --considering using it. However, based on what I've found, it's not worth messing with if I can get similar effects by runing the basics (tesosterone, deca , dbol ) with anti-estrogens or by using winny or var.

    Those of you who have used tren/test and deca/test stacks, please offer your comments on the differences you noted. Any benefits, drawbacks, etc to using either.

  2. #2
    TheMudMan's Avatar
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    I like the leaner gains I get from tren , and the unreal strength gains....... Deca bloats me and I hate to be bloated.

    I got really bad sides from fina..... insomnia, night sweats, and acne (this was the worst side, on other AS I hardly break out).

    So, I will probaly never use either again..... but tren IMO was superior of the two.

    Prop/EQ is may favorite with a little Var

  3. #3
    Da Bull's Avatar
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    Test/Tren ...lean mass,great strength gains,ability to diet down,and still put on quality mass.....Down side..night sweats,insomnia,very high bp,rapid pulse,and slight aggression.

    Test/deca ....mass gains are about the only significant thing I can think of....down side for me was bloat.

    Hard decission for me to make..depends on my goals.Even tho the sides were aweful with tren,the results surely made up for it.So I'd prob pick tren/test cycle myself.

  4. #4
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    I've used tren /prop/var before loved them, I'll be using tren/test both with the enan ester with var next.

    JohnnyB

  5. #5
    BASK8KACE is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da Bull
    Test/Tren ...lean mass,great strength gains,ability to diet down,and still put on quality mass.....Down side..night sweats,insomnia,very high bp,rapid pulse,and slight aggression.

    Test/deca ....mass gains are about the only significant thing I can think of....down side for me was bloat.

    Hard decission for me to make..depends on my goals.Even tho the sides were aweful with tren,the results surely made up for it.So I'd prob pick tren/test cycle myself.
    This is exactly why I think I'm going to stay away from tren. There are so many sides that many people experience regularly. Not like deca-dick, or balding from EQ or testosterone where some do and some don't get the sides. Just about all that have used tren have had bad sides.

    I just posted an article about tren where the person observes that although tren is an excellent mass builder, it is still trumped by the overall mass building properties of testosterone.

    I've made this observation silently quite a while ago, but almost everyone who talks about the sides of tren mentions distinct, increased agression. I wonder....when real fina was available was it responsible for the impression people now have of steroids causing wild mood swings and sudden aggression. Of course there's Halotestin that causes a definite increase in aggression too.

  6. #6
    Da Bull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BASK8KACE
    I wonder....when real fina was available was it responsible for the impression people now have of steroids causing wild mood swings and sudden aggression. Of course there's Halotestin that causes a definite increase in aggression too.
    very interesting thougt Bask8kace...I never pondered that idea,but you truly might have a strong point with your thoughts.Roid rage coming from evil fina doers,very good point.

  7. #7
    TheMudMan's Avatar
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    Fina never gave me mood swings..... and it doesn't take much for me to get nuts either.

  8. #8
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    prop and var, just because i hate to be bloated, and id rather gain 10 lean lbs, and stay lean, rather then gain 20 and have 30% of that be fat gains

  9. #9
    ColdSore's Avatar
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    i ran sust and deca for my 1st...and now in my 3rd im running prop/tren /winny....and i swear on my life it will be hard to ever top this cycle so far...i look the best i ever have...im the strongest i ever have been...and every morning is like christmas b/c i find new muscles, and better definition...

    so my vote goes to prop/tren~!!!!!!!!!!!

  10. #10
    BASK8KACE is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColdStone
    i ran sust and deca for my 1st...and now in my 3rd im running prop/tren /winny....and i swear on my life it will be hard to ever top this cycle so far...i look the best i ever have...im the strongest i ever have been...and every morning is like christmas b/c i find new muscles, and better definition...

    so my vote goes to prop/tren~!!!!!!!!!!!
    ColdStone,

    What was your Prop/Tren/Winny Cycle? What type of Tren did you run with it?

  11. #11
    Doc M's Avatar
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    I've run Prop/Tren , Prop/Deca , Prop/EQ..

    *Prop/Tren combo gave me crazy strength, vascularity, leaned me out like never before, and I maintain a fairly lean physique year round(10-13%)

    Prop/Deca combo gave me mass gains, bloat, and good strength gains..I have always responded well to Deca..

    As far as my Prop/EQ cycle it's hard to tell because I was running EQ 800mgs/wk, Prop 100mgs/ed, and Tren 100mgs/ed for 15 weeks..Tren was only for 6 weeks..It is hard to top the gains I got from this cycle, but it took a toll on me and I ended up sick for over 2 weeks..Viral..Not gear related, but it slowed my progress..

    I will also comment on Tren as it is often spoken about..The sides for me personally were minor..Night sweats which eventually subsided after the 4th week, a little acne, NO mood swings or aggression, BP elevated, pulse rate elevated, but nothing dangerous..Of every AS I have used, I would pick Tren 10 out of 10 times because of the effects it has on me personally..I love Tren...

    Okay, I know I've babbled on..So my vote would go to Prop/Tren

    Doc M

    I am getting ready to Run a Prop, Deca, and Tren combo here in the next month or so..I have NEVER had any ill effects from the Deca or Tren and NEVER need to use an anti-estrogen during these cycles..I will keep an update on this upcoming cycle since it is an odd and often frowned upon cycle combination..

  12. #12
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    Basics for me. I am scared to death of Tren . I'll make it for some bro's of mine but I am scared of anything that tears up the kidneys.

  13. #13
    BASK8KACE is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lozgod
    Basics for me. I am scared to death of Tren. I'll make it for some bro's of mine but I am scared of anything that tears up the kidneys.
    Every time I start to feel good about possibly using Tren , I'm reminded of another bad side effect.

    Lozgog, I'm glad you responded. I had forgotten about the kidney effect. Finding blood in my urine is not something that I'd like to chance for just a bit of size.

    Once again, the basics are looking safest and best.

  14. #14
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    Everyone keeps saying Tren has so many bad sides. Well obviously I can't speak for everyone, but I'm on Tren now and I have ZERO sides. I sleep like I always have, no night sweats, and my skin is as clear as ever. As far as the other more serious sides, my BP is awesome (127/75) and my kidneys are fine. No pain, and my piss is clear. I have experienced all the benefits though, up like 10+lbs, and much stronger. Also my physique is changing dramtically, and I have burned fat. I guess i'm the ideal picture of steriod use though, everyone is different.

  15. #15
    Froggy's Avatar
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    Can I get a prescription for tren /prop please.

  16. #16
    BASK8KACE is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDoe1234
    Everyone keeps saying Tren has so many bad sides. Well obviously I can't speak for everyone, but I'm on Tren now and I have ZERO sides. I sleep like I always have, no night sweats, and my skin is as clear as ever. As far as the other more serious sides, my BP is awesome (127/75) and my kidneys are fine. No pain, and my piss is clear. I have experienced all the benefits though, up like 10+lbs, and much stronger. Also my physique is changing dramtically, and I have burned fat. I guess i'm the ideal picture of steriod use though, everyone is different.
    Did you send your tren to be tested or did you make it yourself?

    Are you using trenbolone acetate or trenbolone hexahydrobencylcarbonate?

  17. #17
    Lozgod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDoe1234
    Everyone keeps saying Tren has so many bad sides. Well obviously I can't speak for everyone, but I'm on Tren now and I have ZERO sides. I sleep like I always have, no night sweats, and my skin is as clear as ever. As far as the other more serious sides, my BP is awesome (127/75) and my kidneys are fine. No pain, and my piss is clear. I have experienced all the benefits though, up like 10+lbs, and much stronger. Also my physique is changing dramtically, and I have burned fat. I guess i'm the ideal picture of steriod use though, everyone is different.
    Everyone is different. I got a cousin, he does Deca only cycles for months and months, his first cycle was 3 months on Dbol at 100mg's a day, then added Sus 250 for another 2 months, he never did PCT or uses anti-E's. His biggest complaint as far as sides go is Acne on his back, and I seen it it's not that bad. Doesn't interfere with his shows. So go figure. I am side effect prone. If I took Tren , I would probaly need a transplant after week 1. lol.

  18. #18
    Mr. Sparkle's Avatar
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    Why does everyone use such high doses? Bask you my friend I know love low doses, why not something like 40mg ED....
    Im on 50mg and this is just my 3rd day... Ill see how I feel in a week or two. I used prop last cycle and grew greatly I cant wait to see how this one unfolds.... 75mg of prop and 50mg of tren ... lean mass is calling me...

  19. #19
    BASK8KACE is offline Anabolic Member
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    Mr. Sparkle,

    Good point. I've considered doing lower doses of tren and prop. I just don't like the idea of the fact that sooo many people experience most of the bad sides that tren has to offer.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by BASK8KACE
    Did you send your tren to be tested or did you make it yourself?

    Are you using trenbolone acetate or trenbolone hexahydrobencylcarbonate?
    Im using Tren that is Home brew. I got it from a VERY trusted source. Oh and yes its Acetate, the second one you mentioned is better know as Parabolan . If I'm correct the second one is amde only in France, and is very expensive. My Tren is also dosed at 100mgs/per ml.

  21. #21
    ColdSore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BASK8KACE
    ColdStone,

    What was your Prop/Tren/Winny Cycle? What type of Tren did you run with it?
    the cycle is in my sig...i know its a little more exotic than what you wanna run with the susp up front, and probably longer...but i got quick size...but im actually happeir with how i look right now...off of the susp, and off the winny...i feel great...

    about the tren ...honestly...i go the same sides from test alone...night sweats, and thats about it...i have a short tmeper as it is, so the tren may not help with that????

    Im useing real trenbalone acte...i converted it myself...i use finaplix that first time...and im sure ill catch some **** on this...but you CAN tell the difference...finplix was ok...but i have never gotten this strong this quick, and this hard....im being serious when i said every morning is like christmas...and my girl sees i too...i look different ed...i love it...

    prop/tren/and maybe some winny...yull be golden...you have the body for it too...nice and thick right now...youll add 10 solid lbs and lean up with a DECENT diet...not strict at all...i have a cheat meal about ED...and no fat gain what so ever...im cutting starting today so im gonna get clean...but it was nice to eat whatever when ever and not bloat or get fat!!!...i love this ****!

  22. #22
    Lozgod's Avatar
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    It's experiences like that, that makes me considering thinking about maybe trying Tren , but has anyone gotten kidney labs (blood work) after Tren usage?




    Quote Originally Posted by ColdStone
    the cycle is in my sig...i know its a little more exotic than what you wanna run with the susp up front, and probably longer...but i got quick size...but im actually happeir with how i look right now...off of the susp, and off the winny...i feel great...

    about the tren...honestly...i go the same sides from test alone...night sweats, and thats about it...i have a short tmeper as it is, so the tren may not help with that????

    Im useing real trenbalone acte...i converted it myself...i use finaplix that first time...and im sure ill catch some **** on this...but you CAN tell the difference...finplix was ok...but i have never gotten this strong this quick, and this hard....im being serious when i said every morning is like christmas...and my girl sees i too...i look different ed...i love it...

    prop/tren/and maybe some winny...yull be golden...you have the body for it too...nice and thick right now...youll add 10 solid lbs and lean up with a DECENT diet...not strict at all...i have a cheat meal about ED...and no fat gain what so ever...im cutting starting today so im gonna get clean...but it was nice to eat whatever when ever and not bloat or get fat!!!...i love this ****!

  23. #23
    BASK8KACE is offline Anabolic Member
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    ColdStone,

    Thanks for the info. I'm still considering it. I'll probably use parabolan if I use tren at all.

  24. #24
    ColdSore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BASK8KACE
    ColdStone,

    Thanks for the info. I'm still considering it. I'll probably use parabolan if I use tren at all.
    nice...para is hard to come by...ive seen it, but the price tag made me say whoa!

    lots of old timers swear its better than tren so i would love to see you use it and give us feedback

  25. #25
    ColdSore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lozgod
    It's experiences like that, that makes me considering thinking about maybe trying Tren, but has anyone gotten kidney labs (blood work) after Tren usage?
    no...i havent...probably should...and youve got a point...maybe i should after my 15 week run this time

  26. #26
    ColdSore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColdStone
    no...i havent...probably should...and youve got a point...maybe i should after my 15 week run this time
    never mind...looks like 10 weeks is all of the tren im gonna get...just busted a fresh 50ml vial on my bathroom counter ....FUKK ME!...im pretty upset about this!

  27. #27
    BWhitaker's Avatar
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    sorry to hear that coldstone....

    As for me, looking forward to trying tren /test

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColdStone
    never mind...looks like 10 weeks is all of the tren im gonna get...just busted a fresh 50ml vial on my bathroom counter ....FUKK ME!...im pretty upset about this!

    i cant believe that happened, 50 ml of tren, i would have cried then punched myself in the face but that is just me.

    i would to test tren cycle hands down. i would do it with prop to cut or test e to bulk. seems like you can get the best of both worlds with tren. cant wait to try it, just 5 more months baby.

  29. #29
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    I too have gone back and forth on whether or not to use in Tren in a cycle.

    The reasons I consider using it:

    1. Cost- its so cheap to make your own compared to buying most AAS...for me at least

    2. Results- I have yet to hear anyone say Tren did not give them the results they wanted

    3. New AAS for me- I'm a strong believer in that the 1st time you use a new compound it will be more effective than doing the same cycle over and over

    Reasons I don't use it yet:

    Making it- I realize that it supposed to be very simple, but I'm not sure if I trust myself to make a product to inject myself IM. Although I could buy it premade, it seems like a waste of money.

    Sides- I'm sure there are ppl out there who see no sides, but what if i'm not one. Then I get stuck with all the nasty sides but a great body. Not worth it IMO

    Diet- As we all know your diet is 90% of growing or cutting, anyone can lift weights or use AAS, but to really have your diet down for bulking or cutting is a science. I am already lean, and when I need to cut it should not be a problem. My goals do not include to have a huge body and very vascular appearance. Therefore I do not see a reason to use such a potent compound such as Tren.

  30. #30
    BASK8KACE is offline Anabolic Member
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    tmeoe,

    That's a good summary of why I'm leaning away from it. Another thing: I've pretty much only used human grade gear, with few exceptions (EQ). Whether I make it or some lab guy does it in a non-regulated lab, I'm gonna be concerned about the purity (not something I have to worry about when I'm getting human grade gear made by the large pharmaceutical companies).

    It looks like I'm gonna stick with the basics a bit longer. Eventually, I will try tren perhaps.

    But...I'd still like to hear others' comments on their good and bad Tren/Parabolan experiences.
    Last edited by BASK8KACE; 06-01-2004 at 09:46 AM.

  31. #31
    Mr. Sparkle's Avatar
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    Cool thing about tren is if the sides suck to bad drop it... I mean its out so fast. I really think you should really look into tren...

  32. #32
    BASK8KACE is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle
    Cool thing about tren is if the sides suck to bad drop it... I mean its out so fast. I really think you should really look into tren...
    True--another good point. I'm definitely swayable at this point, but leaning heavily toward the basics.

    That's why I wanted to "think out loud" in this thread to see what others have to say about it.

  33. #33
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    All this talk of tren and kidney damage is nonsense. It is an urban myth in the steriod circle. Finaplex Question

  34. #34
    BASK8KACE is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDoe1234
    All this talk of tren and kidney damage is nonsense. It is an urban myth in the steriod circle. Finaplex Question
    JohnDoe1234,

    I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss this side effects (including kidney damage) as an urban myth.

    When something is not true or not fully proven, one will often find many contradictory bits of information on the subject. The drug profiles on many different board tend to disband myths or challenge possible misinformation. This doesn't seem to be the case with kidney damage as a result of Tren. Remember kidney damage is not listed as a definite side-effect, it is listed as a possible side effect.

    One thing I find interesting is that some write ups mention that after the original fina was no longer produced, the chances of getting real, pure tren on the black market dropped to approximately 5%. I'm not a home brew guru, so I don't know how close the homemade tren is to the origninal fina.

    Anyway, if you have not have experienced any sides, from Tren, then that's excellent. But do not confuse your personal experience with what is definite for all others, because steroids affect each person differently.

  35. #35
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    Prop/Tren ED Injects = Amazing Results.
    I used BD and the results far surpassed what I was expecting in terms of hard LBM gains with next to nothing for sides.
    Like Coldstone said diet on tren doesn't have to be all that strict and you still drop BF.

  36. #36
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    I had great results from my first cycle of Test-e and Deca ... I wouldn't mind doing it again... I do have it stocked up for my next cycle... On the same time, I had a significant gain of about 15-20lbs... it's hard to calculate since my body fat dropped as well... But, I'll do this again on my next cycle...

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by BASK8KACE
    JohnDoe1234,

    I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss this side effects (including kidney damage) as an urban myth.

    When something is not true or not fully proven, one will often find many contradictory bits of information on the subject. The drug profiles on many different board tend to disband myths or challenge possible misinformation. This doesn't seem to be the case with kidney damage as a result of Tren . Remember kidney damage is not listed as a definite side-effect, it is listed as a possible side effect.

    One thing I find interesting is that some write ups mention that after the original fina was no longer produced, the chances of getting real, pure tren on the black market dropped to approximately 5%. I'm not a home brew guru, so I don't know how close the homemade tren is to the origninal fina.

    Anyway, if you have not have experienced any sides, from Tren, then that's excellent. But do not confuse your personal experience with what is definite for all others, because steroids affect each person differently.
    If you want a real good evalution of the validity of Tren Kidney damage then ask Pheedno. I was looking for some of his post on the subject, but couldnt find them. Also I have know many people personally that used Tren, and they also never had any complaints about Kidney pain. In all honesty if you ask any of the Vets or Mod's that are knowledgeable on the subject, I dont think you will find a single one that believes that Tren is kidney Toxic. Also it really doesn't make sense that it would be. Why would it damage Kidneys more than any other steriod ?, it does not cointain any substance that places any more stress on Kidney function, than any other steriod.

  38. #38
    BASK8KACE is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDoe1234
    If you want a real good evalution of the validity of Tren Kidney damage then ask Pheedno. I was looking for some of his post on the subject, but couldnt find them. Also I have know many people personally that used Tren, and they also never had any complaints about Kidney pain. In all honesty if you ask any of the Vets or Mod's that are knowledgeable on the subject, I dont think you will find a single one that believes that Tren is kidney Toxic. Also it really doesn't make sense that it would be. Why would it damage Kidneys more than any other steriod?, it does not cointain any substance that places any more stress on Kidney function, than any other steriod.
    JohnDoe1234,

    The absence of information does not validate your point. The reason many of us turn to boards like this, other than comraderie, is to gather information on steroids for which there is little if any reputable, large scale research on the way we use steroids .

    For now, until I read reputable comments to the contrary, I'll still be wary about Tren causing kidney damage.

    I personally have not experienced many of the side effects for certain drugs, but it doesn't mean the possibility does not exist.

    Yes, there's a possiblity that there is truth to what you say, but I am always hard pressed to believe information when it is presented to me without support. If you read through my posts, you'll find that I prefer to err on the side of caution. Although I have not yet completely elimiminated using Tren as a possibity, the kidney side effects, along with many other things already mentioned weigh heavily against it.

    If you are able to supply concrete information, then I'd be glad to consider your point of view as valid. But without any support for or against the existence of that side effect, I'll err on the side of caution and believe that it is a possibility.
    Last edited by BASK8KACE; 06-02-2004 at 03:54 PM.

  39. #39
    BASK8KACE is offline Anabolic Member
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    BTW, This is part of the reason I'm posting about tren --I'd like to have discussions about it, so I can learn more.

    So, JohnDoe1234, I'm glad you've joined the discussion. If you have other information about this, let me know.

    I'm doing internet searches and board searches about this now, and ther is lots of conflicting info--more than I had originally found when reading about Tren since I have not been focusing on the kidney damage side effect of it.

  40. #40
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    just curius... bascet case, Is that you on the photo?? How long have you been working out??

    Sorry for loosing the thread.
    Last edited by LILLEN; 06-08-2004 at 01:50 PM.

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