Thread: HCG instead of clomid?
06-05-2004, 10:08 AM #1
HCG instead of clomid?
i was told recently by an advanced builder that HCG can be used very effectively for PCT, using 1000iu first day, and 500iu ED for 10 more days... using 10-20mg of Nolva ED also.... said clomid is no longer needed... any input?
06-05-2004, 10:10 AM #2
No. Go to the PCT forum and read up there.
06-05-2004, 10:17 AM #3Associate Member
- Join Date
- Mar 2004
everybody on here recommends clomid, and i totally am convinced clomid is necesarry pct, but there's been a lot of threads written how nolva is far superior to clomid. are there any threads abolishing this myth?
06-05-2004, 10:20 AM #4Originally Posted by simplecanibus
There is some research that goes both ways. IMO good PCT includes both. For more information, go the PCT forum.
06-05-2004, 10:27 AM #5
Yeah there is a forum for this. This is getting out of hand every question being asked here. It is set up the way it is for a reason.
07-22-2005, 11:53 AM #6
Ive been reading that some ppl use hcg , in higher doses, in the beginning of thier PCT... then using clomid and nolva after... i use hcg throughout cycle at 500iu E4D... the debate on clomid no longer being useful is in a lot of threads, and nolva being its replacement... what i would like to know is this : does anyone have experience doing different PCT than the norm, and what happened? Mods, if you read this, please move to PCT forum thank you
07-22-2005, 11:57 AM #7
07-22-2005, 11:59 AM #8
07-22-2005, 12:05 PM #9
Thnx for the reply... Now, hcg is supposed to act as LH, which is released by a gland to tell the testes to get workin. clomid is supposed to stimulate that gland to do this. The debate is this : use hcg while on cycle to prevent shrinkage, or use in higher doses, after cycle, to reverse shrinkage that will occure. And, does nolva stimulate this gland as well or better than clomid to get it pumping out LH again? There is much debate on this, but not really much proof.... here is a thread talking of Nolva's ability to block the de-sensitizing effects of HCG... im guessing that you can run it longer when you use nolva with your cycle? Im curious here... i like to reduce the number of compounds i use for a complete cycle with all meds....
Last edited by Drummerboy; 07-22-2005 at 11:44 PM.
07-22-2005, 12:50 PM #10
07-22-2005, 04:13 PM #11Originally Posted by roidattack
Last edited by Drummerboy; 07-22-2005 at 04:18 PM.
07-22-2005, 04:15 PM #12
here is the link for some info on Nolva and HCG . Nolva is supposed to block the de-sensitizing effect of HCG over periods longer than a few weeks. This is good for ppl who use HCG throughout the cycle. here it is :
Tamoxifen Blocks HCG Induced Leydig Cell Desensitization
07-22-2005, 04:20 PM #13
Here is a very long arguement about this topic between bigcat and dr evil :
Last edited by Drummerboy; 07-22-2005 at 11:47 PM.
07-22-2005, 07:52 PM #14
07-22-2005, 08:09 PM #15Originally Posted by simplecanibus
Hooker has told me Nolva does work better then clomid for PCT as it raises your natural Test Level, I dont know about for everbody else. im sure he was just refering to himself but he knows his shiit, so I dont doubt him at all.
07-22-2005, 08:23 PM #16Originally Posted by Drummerboy
Since we are trying to avoid this desensitization so when we quit the HCG our testes respond to our endogenous LH, it makes sense to always use nolvadex with HCG to at least help the problem, if not solve it completely.
taken from the thread you posted
07-22-2005, 11:33 PM #17Originally Posted by mark956101957
07-22-2005, 11:43 PM #18Originally Posted by dirtyvegas
This is what HCG is, basically for our purposes, it is LH. when you get your natural LH levels back, which tells your nuts to produce natural test, you want your boys to sense the LH. HCG can cause them to become less sensetive to the natural LH, reducing its effect, and your natural test levels may stay low, even in the presence of natural LH. Taking Nolva with your HCG may prevent this desensitization. Thats what the link is about...
Last edited by Drummerboy; 07-22-2005 at 11:49 PM.
07-23-2005, 02:38 AM #19
IMO it makes the most sence to keep your balls alive with small amount of hcg during cycle, keep the estogen sides away with nolva during cycle. and use clomid after cycle (to prevent any possible estogen to interfere with the come-back of you natural test production)
07-23-2005, 06:26 AM #20
07-23-2005, 10:52 AM #21
You could use HCG at 500iu E4D, with Nolva 10mg ED while on cycle... stay on this until the E ester runs out, like approx 2 weeks. then stop the HCG, bump the nolva to 20mg ED and add .25 Ldex ED. You can also start the 21 day clomid therapy now, but im under the impression it is not needed, as nolva at 20mg ED may do the trick.... i have not done this yet, but this thread is about finding out who has, and does it work.... i may still use clomid until i get solid anserws
07-23-2005, 12:05 PM #22
let's say you've been on a lot of test for quite some time and were just planning on regular pct once yer done, could i, in theory, start up the hcg now(mid-cycle) at 500iu/2xweek or would i need to be more aggressive due to being already crashed?
07-23-2005, 12:39 PM #23
Big M and mumdman make a lot of sense on using lower doses of HCG while on. I've read both of their posts on this. That keeps the balls sensitive to LH when your natural production has been shut down by gear. I've had shrinkage and it sucks. By bombarding your body with HCG at the end of cycle you are feeding it LH only without stimulating the process from the beginning like clomid does. I've never used nolvadex so I don't know. I've only used HCG and clomid. PCT is very important and necessary to feel sane. I saw so many kids go from being big to small or flat then big. When they are off they don't work out. They only work out when on. That's ridiculous. If you do proper PCT then you keep working out and you see how you look natural after everything is out of your body. I think seeing your physique while off and after a correct PCT is the end product of all of the hours in the gym, strict dieting, etc. It's the best to be natural and still looking very good. That means YOU own that muscle and you can sustain it as long as you want.
07-24-2005, 12:26 PM #24Originally Posted by bigbouncinballs
Last edited by Drummerboy; 07-24-2005 at 12:28 PM.
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