Doctor visit update- BAD NEWS

[MONKEYNUTTZ]

Well guys remember me? i got my blood work back today, and ill messed up.. my doctor thinks my liver is enlarged, which isnt good at all. i will be going for a ultrasound wednesday morning to confirm... My cholesteral levels are way off too, my levels are -
HDL cholesterol = 19 should be way higher he said.
and my LDL cholesterol which is the bad one is =149 the highest it should be is 129. which is very bad as well.. there is also large amounts of blood in my urine..... So i guess yesterday was my last day on the sauce till i make sure im ok.. Ill let you guys know how i made out at the ultra sound.....

[Gear101]

Hope all gets better fast for you man!!!!!!!!!

[PaPaPumP]

Stay strong bro. It could be worse! And now that this has happened, there is only room to get better. So you're through the worst of it.

[Methuselah]

That sucks. I will pray for you and ask others to do the same.

What were some of the cycles and AS that you've done? I'd like to learn from this. Where do you think it went wrong for you?

God Bless you and heal quickly.

[big N]

shit bro ,sorry to hear that.best of luck,and hang in there.shit that scares me.keep us posted.

[MBaraso]

Goodluck Bro. Make sure you do everything they tell you to do.

M

[J-Bud]

Ouch, sorry to hear that bro. Please keep us all updated and I hope things get better for you.

[VEGETA990]

I wouldn't worry about the cholesterol at all. my buddy went on some gear and got blood work done, and it was all fu**ed up. they called him back for more retests and he blow them off. when he finished his cycle, he came back to them and his blood work returned to normal.

I don't know about blood in the urine though.

Keep in mind, if you didn't tell your doc that your on some gear, he just will think that this is the shape your body is in. So I could see why he thinks that you have some problems. Also keep in mind, if you tell him your on gear he can write it in your medical file. I don't know about you, but if i was doing anything illegal, i would not want a paper trail.

If i were you i would stop the juice and get new blood work done a week or two later. if its normal, than it was the juice, if its not, then you can start to find a solution and not have to tell your doc about the gear.

[MONKEYNUTTZ]

Thanks guys .. im just sitting here thinking the worst. and i probably shouldnt do that. im off to the gym to a kick ass workout
Shit and i though i was on a very mild cycle
sus 500mgs
eq 600mgs
winny eod -------- for 14 weeks i know thats long for winny
this is my 5th cycle over the past 3 yrs, thats not alot is it??
i didnt think so..
i still have alot to learn still i just want wednesday to be over with already ultra sound day............................
thanks

[lil_josh]

good luck with this shit, I wouldn't tell him about the gear though bro

[Nico]

all i can say is listen to your doc bro. take some time off from gear. and let your body heal. peace.

[Methuselah]

That's a horse of another color. STOP worrying. I heard about a guy that was informed by his doctor that he was positve for AIDS; turned out they weren't his results! True!

I hear of another that went in for surgery on his right knee. When he got to the operating room his doctor discovered that he didn't have the x-ray available. The doctor figured he knew the medical history well enough and operated anyway. We'll, the doc cut the wrong knee and removed a bunch of cartlidge and and ground the bone to remove a bur. Wrong knee! The guy is pissed and gets an attorney. The attorney tells him that he doesn't have a leg to stand on! Not true!

Keep it light Bro, you're gonna be fine!

[Doc40]

Dam bro we all feel for ya. Good luck to a speedy recovery. Peace, Doc.

[Mike]

Good luck bro. Hope all turns out well.

BTW - little known fact - testosterone actually significantly helps with cholesterol levels - so never stop for that reason.

[RUSSIANBEAR]

Bro i hope evrything turns out ok. Hope its not the winny or the EQ cause i love that sh**. Keep us posted. Take Care. R/B

[MONKEYNUTTZ]

I cant see any blood in my urine... But the test say there is alot there-- all i can do is sit and wait till wednesday.. You know whats fucked up? the doc tried to make a joke about it when i asked him what will happen if my liver is enlarged? he jokingly said " you will be big and strong, but with someone elses liver"
Thats real nice to say. right???

[Medicine Man]

its best to let you doctor know everything. my doctor is not happy that i use but he does his best to advise me. and as for having a "paper trail"... well doctors are doctors because they want to help and they can only help (ie make the right diagnosis) if they know the truth. So if you havent told him I would.
as for the blood in the urine and c. levels... those things can be VERY dangerous. And although many of you have friends who have been okay with these problems, they are serious and need to be checked out by someone professionally when they are noticed (if they are). You were smart to go to the doc, NO ONE ELSE make the mistake of thinking they can wait it out. Its important to know that with gear usage there may be consequences and if they come you must better be prepared to accept it and get help. SO enough with this philosophy bull shit... i truly hope you get better! Try to find out where and what went wrong. blood in the urine is very dangerous because it normally involves the kidney or liver (which is one of the MOST important organs in the body). So hopefully everything will be str8end out very soon!
peace MM

[bonker]

Monkey that sucks.My tests came back saying that all was good.Although I do still have my cholesterol test to go.And yes I have to go for an abdominal ultrasound to.By the way wwhy does he think it is an enlarged liver.I didnt have to take a pee test to know that my kidnys were OK it was all done throuhg blood work.

[contraction]

just out of curiousity how old are you monkey?
how much do you weigh/ what is your estimated bodyfat?
different people react different to whatever chemical that the body is subjected to
interesting but when I take fina by itself my bloodpressure is through the roof
but when I take it with test.it is normal-hell it is even lower than
when I have time off between cycles

as for your doctor I would tell him that you are on-he probably will put this in your file but he legally can't show anyone aside from other doctors your file (doctor/patient confidentiality)
if he is knowledgable about gear he might advise you to switch over to something else (though most doctors are pretty ignorant about the subject because there hasn't been much research done on it compared to other drugs)

[Grant]

i know it's been said a million times, but i feel for you bro, it is so hard to wait and see the results of any test, i know you just want to find out immediately, it haunts you until you find out, hang in there bro!

[Ironweb]

Hope all goes well. My mother has problems with LDL and she has to keep it under 200. That is the level that you want to keep it below. If your at 149 I believe you should be ok there. She would be thrilled if she could have it at 149.

[FRANK WHITE]

Hang in there brother. Things are going to be ok. I promise.

[TNT]

Originally posted by Medicine Man
its best to let you doctor know everything. my doctor is not happy that i use but he does his best to advise me. and as for having a "paper trail"... well doctors are doctors because they want to help and they can only help (ie make the right diagnosis) if they know the truth. So if you havent told him I would.
as for the blood in the urine and c. levels... those things can be VERY dangerous. And although many of you have friends who have been okay with these problems, they are serious and need to be checked out by someone professionally when they are noticed (if they are). You were smart to go to the doc, NO ONE ELSE make the mistake of thinking they can wait it out. Its important to know that with gear usage there may be consequences and if they come you must better be prepared to accept it and get help. SO enough with this philosophy bull shit... i truly hope you get better! Try to find out where and what went wrong. blood in the urine is very dangerous because it normally involves the kidney or liver (which is one of the MOST important organs in the body). So hopefully everything will be str8end out very soon!
peace MM

Monkeynuttz, I reprinted Medicine Man's missive because, of all the responses in this thread thus far, he is the only one who has been totally on the mark.

That said, I'll add only a couple of additional comments . . .

First, you should be scared shitless. You're definitely talking some whacked out numbers if your HDL is only 19 (the norm is anything above 59). The LDL is high at 149; it would even be considered high at 129 these days (recommended LDL levels were recently lowered to under 115, or under 100 for diabetics). Combining that with blood detected in the urine (which is, indeed, often invisible to the naked eye), and you've got several things to correct. Based on your current numbers, however, your cardiac risk is several times higher than the norm. (Ironweb's mother notwithstanding, as hers is a special situation. For a person in otherwise normal health, an LDL of 200 would be whacked out. But 149 is stilll too high.)

Second, by all means, tell your doctor about your AS use. You are beyond the point of worrying whether your doctor is cool; if he can't handle your AS use, find another doctor. But don't go keeping it a secret; the is too significant a factor in your medical profile, and can be used to rule out other causes.

Third, don't listen to any amateur dickheads here, including me. We all mean well, but you've seen me write this countless times before: Meaning well amounts to squat. The only thing that counts is an in-person exam by a medical professional.

Fourth, a question: Cholesterol is tested by a lipid panel. Did your do doctor also order a comprehensive metabolic panel (or, individually, a basic metabolic panel and hepatic panel) to test for kidney and liver functions? If so, how did they look? (I assume that this is how it was determined that your liver might be enlarged.)

Fifth, a recommendation: Ask your doctor for a copy of all your lab results, as well as a copy of the report for your upcoming ultrasound. They will come in handy if you see another doctor (for example, if referred to a specialist), and you can use them as a tool to foster your own education. You may be getting an earlier start than most people when it comes to this shit, but learning about these things will make you a better, more proactive patient.

Sixth, realize that doctors are human. If he seems like a putz because of the "someone else's liver" remark, then make your objection known. You have every reason to be concerned at this point; make sure he knows how concerned you are. But cut him a little slack and, if he's really a putz, that's another reason to find another doctor.

Finally, congratulations on making the first right move: putting the kibash on your cycle. Stopping the sauce was exactly the right thing to do once you had an indication that something was wrong. Until you learn otherwise, assume that your cycles have ended permanently. If and when you find the cause for your symptoms, plan any future AS use very carefully, using a risk-versus-benefit analysis. And if you find that the risk outweighs the benefit, act accordingly. What we advocate here is intelligentg AS use, and for many dudes and dudettes, that may mean no AS use at all. The question isn't whether to fall for the pressure applied by well-meaning bro's whose heads are up their butts, but whether you have the guts not to use AS if they're gonna do a number on you. And whichever was that goes, bro, you've got my support.

[Sicilian30]

Isn't there something about confidenciality? I thought a doctor was not and can not release your medical records to anyone with consent from you? I know that seems BS, but that is what I hear.

[Mike]

Wow I think TNT just blatantly insulted me...

[bex]

Shit happends bro iam so sorry ....I Hope it all works out for you...

[bigstef]

good luck and keep in mind it's just a break. after this even you will understand more your ONE BODY reaction to the juic. keep on training.

[MONKEYNUTTZ]

WOW========= Thanks for all the support guy's
And yes i havce told my doctor im on the gear... He wasnt thrilled
but like he said i didnt come to see him for a lecture... i came to get better, he is currently looking into getting me a specialist that knows more about anabolics.... 24 hours to go till my ultra sound.. ill keep all of you informed how it goes... The hardest thinmg is i cant eat anything from 8pm tonight till 10am tomorrow morning. and after being on 600mgs of EQ im hungry like a mothere f**ker---------------------
Thanks again guys.....

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by MONKEYNUTTZ
Well guys remember me? i got my blood work back today, and ill messed up.. my doctor thinks my liver is enlarged, which isnt good at all. i will be going for a ultrasound wednesday morning to confirm... My cholesteral levels are way off too, my levels are -
HDL cholesterol = 19 should be way higher he said.
and my LDL cholesterol which is the bad one is =149 the highest it should be is 129. which is very bad as well.. there is also large amounts of blood in my urine..... So i guess yesterday was my last day on the sauce till i make sure im ok.. Ill let you guys know how i made out at the ultra sound.....

Keep the faith brother. You will be okay, stay poz ! We are with you !!!

[GenuinePL]

Man, I always hoped that your situation will never go that far.
Your problem is not a joke like your doc said, it's extremelly serious shit. I had serious problems in my life bro (very serious) and I'm luck that I'm here right now.

I wish you well with everything I have.
Remember to stay strong, your doc could do only half of the work for you. The rest is you. You have to constantly believe in yourself and never let yourself down.

STAY STRONG BROTHER and you will get through this shit.

[BE_STRONG]

GOOD LUCK BRO!!

BE STRONG!!

[Mighty Duck]

Keep your head up bro! We're all in this together, one way or another!


Heads up bro.

[TNT]

Originally posted by Sicilian30
Isn't there something about confidenciality? I thought a doctor was not and can not release your medical records to anyone with consent from you? I know that seems BS, but that is what I hear.

Um, it's BS. Seriously, bro, confidentiality does not extend to the total release of medical records. For example, when you see a physician for the first time, you sign a limited consent to have your records released to your medical insurer. Generally, your insurer will not get all of your records, but they can if they wish.

However, a more likely scenario is if you are involved in an accident that results in a lawsuit (whether you are the victim or the offender). At that point, you will likely have to release all of your medical files (from any physician) to opposing counsel for use in deposition or trial. Usually this is done voluntarily through the discovery process, although it can also be done by subpoena.

My recommendation: Always discuss AS use with your doctor, but ask him or her not to note your AS use in your medical chart. If your doctor is determined to note it, however, you have to use a risk-versus-benefit analysis. And, in my opinion, that analysis dictates that you should still inform your physician about any AS use since it can have such an impact upon your overall health.

Originally posted by Mike
Wow I think TNT just blatantly insulted me...

Moi? No, I would never blatantly insult God. It's not theologically appropriate. I would be subtle.

Seriously, Mike is at the top of my list for reliability and accuracy. Not to mention that he's an all-around nice guy whose head is screwed on straight. He's not perfect, but none of us is. And I should know, since I come pretty damn close.

I was trying to be subtle, but responsibility dictates that I include a brief comment: testosterone tends to increase serum cholesterol levels, which is why the prescribing information for both cyp and enanthate contain warnings to this effect. For example, from the product literature for Delatestryl (test enanthate, from BTG/Bristol Myers Squibb):

Because androgens may alter serum cholesterol concentration, caution should be used when administering these drugs to patients with a history of myocardial infarction or coronary artery disease. Serial determinations of serum cholesterol should be made and therapy adjusted accordingly. A causal relationship between myocardial infarction and hypercholesterolemia has not been established . . .

ADVERSE REACTIONS: Metabolic --Increased serum cholesterol.

I know Mike already forgives me for mentioning that, just as I will forgive him the next time he corrects something I've said that's not quite on the mark. He is, after all, a forgiving God. And, notwithstanding my comments here, you won't find a more knowledgable dude, and he does have my seal of approval. As if he needed it?

[Ironweb]

I had to check TNT's HDL & LDL levels he gave. He is right on the money. From different threads I have read from you seem to have a lot of knowlegde of medical infomation. Thanks for sharing the knowlegde bro.

[Mike]

First I have to say that TNT - you get MAJOR points for making me laugh hysterically. It was this part that did me in -

"Moi? No, I would never blatantly insult God. It's not theologically appropriate. I would be subtle."

And no forgiveness necessary. You have every right to dispute anything I ever say. Anyone does, That doesn't bother me in the least.

I would agree with you that there are quite a few studies out there that will dictate that testosterone will increase LDL cholesterol levels. HOWEVER, if we stop there we leave ourselves uneducated and without the whole picture.

First off - it is important to note that the reason you don't want bad LDL levels is for risk of heart disease no? Well seeing as how testosterone will increase insulin levels and thus counter negative effects of high LDL, increased testosterone had proved time and again good for the male heart. Where testosterone will be preventative for heart failure in the male it will be counterproductive in females, concludes popular studies.

I also feel I have to point out that though there are studies confirming that testosterone may be bad for HDL and LDL cholesterol levels - it's also true that studies can be found to the oppossing.

In fact Dr. Gifford Jones recently published an article quoting a reputable Canadian endricrinologist about testosterone's effects on cholesterol.

"Researchers also provided good news about the effect of testosterone on cholesterol metabolism. Prof. Roland Tremblay, an internationally known Quebec endocrinologist, says testosterone lowers total cholesterol, decreases LDL (the bad cholesterol), increases HDL (the good cholesterol) and decreases triglycerides."

He also goes on to state the already know - that low testosterone levels can ultimately lead to heart failure and has been known to be a big player in increased cardiovascular risks.

Truth be told - I promise you that articles can be found to both effects. Some will support testosterone's benefits on cholesterol and some will argue that it is harmful. There's a relatively good amount of controversy existing in that field of study right now.

Personally - I quoted Roland Tremblay's findings because I am dealing with you TNT. And I know better than to come to the table without credible sources of information. I figure I owe you that respect. But in all honesty - my belief in testosterone potentially having positive effects on cholesterol levels is NOT in these studies so much as it is in my own personal experience. I used to have all my lipid levels, triglycerides etc etc check and monitored while I was on cycle. Purely for safety, interest and because those tests were always ridiculously available to me I thought it would be silly not to have them done. I always seemed to watch my cholesterol levels get better while on cycle with a few exceptions. Though i cannot say how much of these findings could be attributed to testosterone and how much could be attributed to the "Testosterone Diet" of a bodybuilder on cycle.

At any rate - yes TNT IS very knowledgable and when he speaks he always deserves the respect of a listening ear. I respect and validate all your points. I believe I have just had experiences slightly different to yours brother.

I can always count on you for this sort of discussion - thanks.

[Ironweb]

That was very good read Mike. I would just like to apologize to MN and the board for giving bad information. I based it upon my mothers situation and did not do my homework. I will not make those type of mistakes in the future. Thank you TNT for calling me on that and giving the correct stats.

Peace

[gearedup]

It is strange how steroids have negative effects on people differently! I stay on year round, have taken orals for many months at 100mgs or more a day and also go out to clubs anmd drink and my tests come back always fine!

I wonder why this is the way it is for some and not others!

[TNT]

Quickie to Ironweb . . . No sweat. Many of us extend what's good for us, or for someone we know, into a generalization. It may not always be correct, but it seems logical. I completely understand your position with regard to your mom. In her case, a level below 200 is probably good insofar as comparing it to what it was. There are many circumstances to consider in her individual case, ranging from her age to any other comlicating medical conditions. The important thing, of course, is that her cholesterol and other conditions that may exist are being competently managed, and it sounds like they are.

Now, as to Mike . . . Y'all may think that by the time we get done stroking each other, there will be multiple orgasms on this board. But I really do think highly of the guy, and am glad he brought up the points he raised. And not surprisingly, I concur with them in full. It has been proven that not only does a low testosterone level (common as men age, and often manifesting itself as hypogonadism in younger men) carries certain risks, the most notable of which is an increased cardiac risk. Another common factor that is increased in men with low test levels is the risk of osteoporosis - finally recognized as common in women (which is why so many post-menopausal women take calcium, and an increasing number take Fosamax, a prescription drug designed to prevent or treat osteoporosis), and now being recognized as prevalent in men as they age and their test levels decrease.

I have not read as comprehensive a selection of literature as Mike has on the effects of testosterone on cholesterol, but based my comments solely on the prescribing information for commonly used U.S. test products (specifically, Delatestryl and Depo-Testosterone , the only legally manufactured enanthate and cyp, respectively). Both indicate increased serum cholesterol levels as a common "adverse reaction," or side effect. However, common does not mean that it occurs in every case or every patient, and I concur with Mike about the benefits of testosterone, especially with regard to reducing cadiac risk.

Now, guys, that doesn't mean that you should go out and start shooting test for the sake of your heart, any more than you should start taking aspirin every day for your heart because you read something about it in Reader's Digest. (Yeah, I know that none of us would subscribe to Reader's Digest, but face it, we all pick up a copy occasionally in the doctor's office, the barber shop, or the waiting room at Pep Boys. Especially if Sports Illustrated isn't in the magazine rack.) If you have no medical reason to shoot test, the only reason you should consider it is in the context of a well-researched cycle, recognizing that it can have some side benefits.

In most cases, I believe that testosterone will not significant raise cholesterol levels - unless you happen to be prone to high cholesterol levels in the first place. That's a reason that lab work is so helpful to anyone who is going to do a cycle. (Monkeynuttz, that's why it will be interesting to see how your tests come out, as well as how they might change after you end your cycle.)

The ultimate conclusions, of course, are that everyone is different, life is a crap shoot, and the most important thing is to be informed about what we're doing and, hopefully, monitoring our bodies for any changes - good, bad, or ugly. (Damn, that sounds like the tag line on a news story. I'm going to bed.)

[Mike]

Yeah I should note that I agree w/ TNT on his point in there. I did not mean to say that test was a body good so fuck your labwork and shoot up for your heart's sake. Sorry - it was just the trivia for the day

[bonker]

monkey how did it go today.Any news yet.