Thread: winny advice
06-13-2004, 04:22 AM #1New Member
- Join Date
- Feb 2004
im thinking about taking a course of winny one shot every five days. i am 43 and 7 years ago suffered a heart attack. i have been training for most of my life and just want to harden up a bit and lose some weight and maybe enter a show. so what do you think
06-13-2004, 05:13 AM #2Senior Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2003
do some research on "winny only" cycles and ull get your answer.
also, the quantity uve planned to run is too low..
06-13-2004, 07:29 AM #3
also i would talk to a doc, im not sure but AAS could not be good for someone who has had a heart attack
06-13-2004, 09:39 AM #4
winny does not burn fat! you will not see results unless your BF is less then 12%. 5 days of it wont do nothing. 6 weeks at 50mg ed is good.
06-13-2004, 09:46 AM #5Junior Member
- Join Date
- Jun 2004
heart attack? you should consult your doctor before using any kind of as.
06-13-2004, 11:18 AM #6Junior Member
- Join Date
- Mar 2004
and u do know u can drink winny and get the same as if u shot it ...................so if you don't like to shoot jus drink and if u taking winny consult your doc and also winniy should be taken every day if not every other day i do it eod and get great results but it wont burn fat if u have a proper diet and train hard u will get want u want
if you want to burn fat or atleat lose it try these
Cytomel ® (liothyronine sodium)
Drug Class: Synthetic thyroid hormone
Average Dose: 25-100 mcg/day
Comments: Significant suppression of Thyroid function during use
Cytomel® is the popularly recognized brand name for the drug liothyronine sodium. This is not an anabolic steroid but a thyroid hormone. It is used medically to treat cases of thyroid insufficiency, obesity, certain metabolic disorders and fatigue. Specifically this drug is a pharmaceutical preparation of the natural thyroid hormone triiodothyronine (T-3). When administered, Cytomel increases the patient's metabolism. The result is an increased rate of cellular activity (noted by a more rapid utilization of carbohydrates, fats and proteins). Bodybuilders are particularly attracted to this drug for its ability to burn off body excess fat. Most often utilized during contest preparation, one can greatly decrease the amount of stored fat without being forced to severely restrict calories. To this end Cytomel is commonly used in conjunction with Clenbuterol and can produce extremely dramatic results. This combination has become very popular in recent years, no doubt responsible for many "ripped" on-stage physiques. It is also noted by many that when thyroid hormones are taken in conjunction with steroids , an increased anabolic effect can be seen (noticeably greater than if the steroids are used alone). This is likely due to faster utilization of proteins by the body, increasing the rate for new muscle accumulation.
Caution should be taken if one is considering using this drug. Cytomel comes with an extensive list of warnings and precautions which are not to be ignored. Side effects include, but are not limited to, heart palpitations, agitation, shortness of breath, irregular heartbeat, sweating, nausea, headaches, and psychic/metabolic disorders. It is a powerful hormone, and one that could potentially alter the normal functioning of the body if misused. When taking Cytomel, one must remember to increase the dosage slowly. Generally one 25mcg tablet is taken on the first day, and the dosage is thereafter increased by one tablet every three of four days for a maximum dosage of 100mcg. This will help the body adjust to the increased thyroid hormone, hopefully avoiding any sudden "shock" to the system. The daily dose should also be split evenly throughout the day, in an effort to keep blood levels steadier. Women are more sensitive to the side effects of Cytomel than men, and usually choose not to take no more than 50mcg daily.
It is important to stress that a cycle should last no longer than 6 weeks and it should never be halted abruptly. As slowly as the dosage was built up it should also be lowered, one tablet every 3-4 days. Taking Cytomel for too long and/or at too high a dosage can result in a permanent thyroid deficiency. After doing such, one might need to be treated with a drug like Cytomel for life. It is also a good idea to first consult your physician and have your thyroid function tested. An undiagnosed hyperfunction would not mix well with the added hormone. An athlete should also be sure never to purchase an injectable form of the drug. It is generally an emergency room product, much too powerful for athletic use. Since T-3 is the most powerful thyroid hormone athletes are using, this is generally not the starting point for a beginner. Before using such a powerful item, it is a good idea to become familiar with a weaker substance. The highly popular Triacana is very mild, allowing the user much more latitude (from severe side effects) than Cytomel. An in-between point is Synthroid (synthetic T-4), still weaker in action than Cytomel. Once the user is ready however, the fat burning effect of this hormone can be extremely dramatic.
06-13-2004, 11:18 AM #7Junior Member
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- Mar 2004
Active Life: 6-8 hours (Diuretic effects)
Drug Class: Loop Diuretic (Oral)
Average Dose: 40-80 mg total in a 12 hour period
Water Retention: Obviously not
High Blood Pressure: No
Liver Toxic: Unknown
Aromatization: Not applicable
Lasix is a brand name for the drug furosemide, a very potent diuretic. Technically it belongs to a class of drugs known as loop diuretics, which will cause the body to excrete water as well as potassium, sodium and chloride. Loop diuretics are among the strongest such drugs available, having an extremely dramatic effect on fluid levels in the body. Potassium levels need to be particularly watched, Lasix greatly increasing the amount excreted. The use of a prescription potassium supplement therefore is often required to keep levels in balance, otherwise a serious heart complications might develop. Mistakes in potassium dosage have equally serious consequences, so Lasix is clearly a risky item to use. But when an athlete needs to shed water, it is very difficult to find something that works better.
Athletes use diuretics for a couple of specific purposes. Competitive athletes use these drugs to drop water weight, in an effort to make adjustments in their weight class standings. Since the weigh-in is most often a day or days before a competition/match, one can drop their bodyweight considerably and be back to normal within hours after rehydration. This logically seems to provide an unfair advantage, the athlete competing at a much heavier weight than believed. This advantage is only offset by the now near universal nature of this practice. Bodybuilders also rely heavily on diuretics when preparing for a contest. It can efficiently lower subcutaneous water concentrations, helping to produce that super-ripped look so common on stage today. Make no mistake; a winning look is extremely difficult to obtain without some form of diuretic.
This drug is prepared as both an oral tablet (usually 20-40mg per tablet) or IM/IV injection solution, the injection being much more rapid in effect. The dosage and method of administration is tailored to the individual, dependent on the desired goals and condition of the athlete. Tablets are the most common form of administration. Each oral Lasix tablet becomes effective about 1 hour after ingesting and will remain active for an additional 3 or 4 hours. The athlete will usually start with a mild dose, and add to this amount accordingly later in the day. The initial dosage is usually 20 to 40mg, with the maximum amount usually not to exceed 80mg. The user will attempt to calculate the optimal dosage, and determine the best intake schedule in relation to the show or competition. In order to minimize the side effects associated with this drug, it is generally used for no longer than a few days.
Since Lasix has such a strong effect on electrolyte and potassium levels, it is much safer to addition a potassium sparing agent like Aldactone® (spironolactone) than it is to keep increasing the amount of Lasix used. A combination of 50mg Aldactone® and 20mg Lasix would be a good starting point, having roughly the effect of a 40mg Lasix tablet without the notable potassium loss. This dosage is repeated 2-3 times during the day and the effect judged to determine the optimal dosage. It is important to remember that these drugs can be active for many hours. It can become difficult to control the dehydrating effect with an overlapping schedule, so one should be careful not to administer such diuretics too frequently.
Lasix is no doubt one of the most dangerous drugs a competitor will use. This can be seen on occasion when severe dehydration and electrolyte imbalance takes the life of an ambitious athlete. Warning signs that Lasix may be causing severe dehydration include (not limited to) dizziness, cramping, vomiting, diarrhea, fainting and circulatory disturbances. Potassium depletion can be marked as well, so as discussed users often opt to take a prescription potassium supplement, also with its own set of dangers. One should use extreme caution when considering using Lasix or other diuretics; they are certainly not needed for recreational users.
This product is widely available. It is manufactured and sold under many different brand names, in many countries. No version of Lasix (or any other diuretic) is currently being counterfeited. When found on the black market it can therefore be trusted. Although it is doubtful these will circulate, make sure never to purchase the 500mg tablets. These are used only in severe medical conditions, and contain a dosage that could prove fatal to a healthy person.
06-13-2004, 11:19 AM #8Junior Member
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- Mar 2004
Active Life: Up to 68 hours
Drug Class: Beta-2-symphatonimetric, thermalgenic/anti-catabolic (Oral)
Average Dose: Men 100-140 mcg/day......Women 80-100 mcg/day
Water Retention: No
High Blood Pressure: Sometimes
Liver Toxic: Unknown
Clenbuterol is a widely used bronchodilator in many parts of the world. The drug is most often prepared in 20mcg tablets, but it is also available in syrup and injectable form. Clenbuterol belongs to a broad group of drugs knows as sympathomimetics. These drugs affect that sympathetic nervous system in a wide number of ways, largely mediated by the distribution of adrenoceptors. There are actually nine different types of these receptors in the body, which are classified as either alpha or beta and further subcategorized by type number. Depending on the specific affinities of these agents for the various receptors, they can potentially be used in the treatment of conditions such as asthma, hypertension, cardiovascular shock, arrhythmias, migraine headaches and anaphylactic shock. The text Goodman and Gillman's The Pharmacological Basis of Therapeutics Edition does a good job of describing the diverse nature in which these drugs affect the body:
`Most of the actions of catecholamines and sympathomimetic agents can be classified into seven broad types: (1) peripheral excitatory action on certain types of smooth muscles such as those in blood vessels supplying the skin, kidney, and mucous membranes, and on the gland cells, such as those of the salivary and sweat glands; (2) a peripheral inhibitory action on certain other types of smooth muscle, such as those in the wall of the gut, in the bronchial tree, and in blood vessels supplying skeletal muscle; (3) a cardiac excitatory action, responsible for in increase in heart rate and force of contraction; (4) metabolic actions, such as an increase in the rate of glycogenolysis in liver and muscle and liberation of free fatty acids from adipose tissue; (5) endocrine actions, such as modulation of the secretion of insulin , rennin, and pituitary hormones; (6) CNS actions, such as respiratory stimulation and, with some of the drugs, an increase in wakefulness and psychomotor activity and a reduction in appetite; and (7) presynaptic actions that result in either inhibition or facilitation of the release of the neurotransmitters such as such as norepinephrine and acetylcholine."
The drug clenbuterol is specifically a selective beta-2 sympathomimetic, primarily affecting only one of the three subsets of beta-receptors. Of particular interest is the fact that this drug has little beta-1 stimulating activity. Since beta-1 receptors are closely tied to the cardiac effects of these agents, this allows clenbuterol to reduce reversible airway obstruction (and effect of beta-2 stimulation) with much less cardiovascular side effects compared to nonselective beta agonists. Clinical studies with this drug show it is extremely effective as a bronchodilator, with a low level of user complaints and high patient compliance. Clenbuterol also exhibits an extremely long half-life in the body, which is measured to be approximately 34 hours. This makes steady blood levels easy to achieve, requiring only a single or twice daily dosing schedule at most. This of course makes it much easier for the patient to use, and may tie in to its high compliance rate. In spite that clenbuterol is available in a wide number of other countries however; this compound has never been approved for use in the United States. The fact that there are a number of similar, effective asthma medications already available in this country may have something to do with this, as a prospective drug firm would likely not find it a profitable enough product to warrant undergoing the expense of the FDA approval process. Regardless, foreign clenbuterol preparations are widely available on the U.S. black market.
In animal studies, clenbuterol is shown to exhibit anabolic activity, so it is obviously an attractive trait to the athlete. This compound is additionally a known thermogenic, with beta-2 agonists like clenbuterol shown to directly stimulate fat cells and accelerate the breakdown of triglycerides to form free fatty acids. Its efficacy in this area makes clenbuterol a very attractive, and today almost mandatory, pre-contest drug. Those interested in this drug are most often hoping it will impart a little of both benefits, promoting the loss of body fat while imparting strength and muscle mass increases. But as was well pointed out by a review published in the August 1995 issue of Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, the possible anabolic activities in humans are very questionable, and based only on animal data using much larger doses than would be required for bronchodilation. With such reports there has been a lot of debate lately as to whether or not clenbuterol is really anabolic at all. Some seem to swear by the fact that it builds muscle regardless, firmly sticking by "clen " as a great off-season or adjunct anabolic. To others such reports are confirmation that athletes have wasted valuable time and money on drugs that do not work as they are intended to by the user. This debate continues today, with many still using clenbuterol as a potential anabolic. With this in mind athletes will tailor their dosage and cycling of this product individually depending on which of the two "possible" results are more desired, and how much side effects are to be tolerated. The possible side effects of clenbuterol include those of other CNS stimulants, and include such occurrences as shaky hands, insomnia, sweating, increased blood pressure and nausea. These side effects will generally subside after a week or so of use however, once the user becomes accustomed to the drug. One would typically start a cycle by gradually increasing the dosage each day until a desired range is established. This process will minimize the unwanted side effects seen from the drug; which otherwise might be dramatic if a large dose is administered from the onset. Men generally end up in the range of 2-8 tablets per day, although some people do claim to tolerate even higher dosages. Women get by on less, generally 2-4 tablets daily. Very quickly, the drug will elevate the body temperature. The rise is not usually dramatic, perhaps a half of a Cegree or so, sometimes a little more. This elevation is due to your body burning excess energy (largely from fat) and is usually not uncomfortable. Now that it is working, the number of consecutive days clenbuterol can be used is believed to be dependent on the goal of the individual. To be clear, the athletic benefits of this drug will only last for a limited time and then diminish, largely due to beta-receptor down regulation. When using it for fat loss. the primary effect of the drug, it seems to work well for approximately 4-6 weeks. During this period users will want to constantly monitor their body temperature. We are assured clenbuterol is working by the temperature elevation. Once the temperature drops back to normal, clenbuterol is no longer exhibiting a thermogenic effect. At this point increasing the dosage would not be very effective, and a break for at least a few weeks should be taken before it is used again effectively. If one is looking for strength gains, clenbuterol appears to be effective for a much shorter period of time, around 3-4 weeks. This may be due to an absence of real anabolic effect, with the strength gain seen with clenbuterol possibly due only to the stimulant properties of the drug (similar to the strength boost seen by Ephedrine users). Again however, this is still debated.
Many competitors also find the fat burning effect of clenbuterol can be further enhanced by additional substances. When combined with thyroid hormones, specifically the powerful Cytomel ®, the thermogenic effect can become extremely dramatic. This can be to a point that the athlete could shred exceptional amounts of extra fat during contest preparations, without a dramatic restriction in calories. Such a mix can be further used during a steroid cycle, eliciting a much harder look from the anabolics. These cutting agents can often greatly inhibit extra fat storage during the cycle, even when using strong aromatizing androgens. A clenbuterol/thyroid mix is also common when using growth hormone , further enhancing the thermogenic and anabolic effect of this therapy.
06-13-2004, 11:47 AM #9Senior Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2003
hey, this man had an heart problem, dont u think drugs like clen could be a little bit too dangerous?
hercules was right, he should consider seein a doc before doing something (too) stupid for his healt...
06-13-2004, 11:49 AM #10
talk to your doctor. Don't put your life in our hands.
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