No test

**twosocks40** · 06-17-2004, 02:09 PM

Just wondering why everyone says you HAVE to run test with everything. There are plenty of olympic athletes who get phenomenal results from just winny. I know people who have had great results off EQ alone. Not trying to flame anyone. Just want to get some opinions of cycles that don't include test.

-B

**bad_man** · 06-17-2004, 02:10 PM

Just curious, how many Olympic athletes have been openly sharing their supplementation programs?

**Matto20** · 06-17-2004, 02:35 PM

There are many cycles you can run without test, but winny alone and equipose alone aren't good compounds to do so with. They are strong enough androgenically to shut your HPTA down and give you limp dick during your cycle, leaving you desperate to regain your normal test levels after cycle which can be difficult, even with proper PCT.

However, there are several compounds that can work well without using test in conjunction. Such as PRIMO and OXANDROLONE. They don't shut down normal test enough to cause problems and they are very easy steroids to recover from. They also offer minimal sides and slow, steady keepable gains. No hairloss to worry about, no acne to worry about, no difficult recovery to worry about... However, it could end up costing you an arm and a leg.

***SV-1*** · 06-17-2004, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by Matto20

They don't shut down normal test enough to cause problems

I know that there are a lot of people on this board that will disagree with that statement. I'm not saying that's true for everyone, but then everyone reacts to drugs differently.

**Krunchtime** · 06-17-2004, 02:49 PM

I just run test with everything so I can have an erection while on a cycle

**BUYLONGTERM** · 06-17-2004, 02:56 PM

Good god, I think the question should be why NOT???? The way TEST makes me feel mentally, I could care less what it does for bodybuilding. I love it that much.

**itsallmental** · 06-17-2004, 02:58 PM

most steroids youve ever heard of in your lifetime, shut your testorone production completely, even low doseages of substances such as deca or winny can do the trick.we always ask where the test is, because incase you DO get shut down, your body will still think its producing testosterone , therefor you wont be experiencing any nasty bad side effects such as depression, limp dick, etc etc.

as for matto20, there isnt a single steroid you can take in conjuction without the use of testosterone to do the cycle completely safe and steady. var may not effect your hpta too much(depending on YOU), but it still DOES effect the hpta, meaning if you did run testosterone with it, youd benefit from the cycle ALOT more than you would if you to be running no test with it.your thinking of the roids which are leaning high in androgens. the hair loss, acne, other side effects are totally dependent on blood levels and the person doing the cycle. ive seen guys run upwards to 2 grams of test and have no problem whatsoever with acne/etc, but the again ive seen bros try out scratchy cycles with even var and primo and they get real bad sides durring and after the cycle is over.

dont jump to conclusions.

**Matto20** · 06-17-2004, 05:08 PM

Jeez. For the thread starter again, I don't think there is much "thinking outside the lines" that ever goes on in this steroid forum - it is mostly people going along with the masses. That's why cycles without test are often blindly critiqued on this forum as "dumb and illogical" and people that do things differently are looked at as "idiots." I myself am constantly criticized on this board for advising people alternative and safer cycles, yet each day I see a new thread where a noobie is complaining of side effects during or after cycling, such as insomnia, acne, water retention, profussive sweating, hair loss, kidney aches, etc. It is ridiculous, needless, and can be avoided.

As for the replies rebutting my post about var and primo's effects on the HPTA, have any of you ever run such cycles firsthand? I'm not trying to tell everyone that oxandrolone and primo won't shut them down. Any steroid will. But to even compare the shutdown from compounds such as var and primo to EQ or winny is outrageous. I have never heard of anyone getting limp dick running var alone up to 10 weeks. I have also never heard of anyone having any significant issues with primo alone causing limp dick either; I ran that cycle last winter for eight weeks and had no problem whatsoever. If, for some odd reason (probably faked gear) a primo only cycle did cause you mild limp dickage, a small amount of proviron or even cialis could tide you over until PCT and recovery is complete. It wouldn't be an issue at all! And recovering from these two compounds is easy easy easy... Many people also often claim that without test such cycles will not give near enough gains, but these people are looking at things the wrong way. Primo and anavar 's androgenic profile is much milder than that of other steroids , and as a result don't cause the extremely rapid changes that many harsh androgenic steroids do. And sure, if you add a half-gram of test per week to an anavar only cycle, you're going to experience greater gains in mass (although much of it water-weight) and possibly strength, but you will also be put under a MUCH greater risk of the before-said side effects.

It all really comes down to what one's goals are and what drugs one can tolerate. If you have ran cycles of test and other strong androgens in the past with success and without significant side-effects, by all means continue with your type of cycling. But if you have been disappointed with a previous experience with such compounds, due to side effects or various other reasons, there are different and ways to accomplish goals via safer compounds. Many might think I'm obnoxious with my viewpoints and I apologize. Maybe when I can pull up the front page of the steroid forum and not see tons of posts complaining of side-effects than I'll change my tone. Later ya'll, I'm out for the night!

**BodyMechanic** · 06-17-2004, 05:16 PM

i know numerous people that have run deca only cycles with no complaints, and many people that have ran winny only including myself with no problems. I just think it is a matter of the person doing it. I too think there are a lot of people that just go along with what they read,with no real personal experience on the things they are giving advice on.

**Matto20** · 06-17-2004, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by BodyMechanic

i know numerous people that have run deca only cycles with no complaints

do you live in a monastery?

lol ...

j/k

**BodyMechanic** · 06-17-2004, 05:22 PM

never had a problem getting it up or other people i talked to. Have you ever done a deca only cycle

**Matto20** · 06-17-2004, 05:38 PM

I have not run a deca -only cycle, nor have I even thought of it. Scientifically it seems pretty illogical and I have heard numerous limp-dick nightmare stories about deca, many of which come from posters on boards such as this and a couple from friends in the gym. So, of course, I'd never even think of doing such a thing. Nevertheless, if for some odd reason deca only works for you without the dreaded deca dick (which I honestly find hard to believe, but if you say so, you say so...) then more power to you, and keep running it.

**OverDrive** · 06-17-2004, 05:39 PM

well, I can't speak for everyone BUT ... I def. shut down w/o test. Right now I'm running winny/eq and no test. 4 weeks in and I can tell a difference in the energy level w/o the test.

I don't know if 500mg a week is needed but a maintenance dose certainly couldn't hurt. I have someone the day as we speak to finish up.

**BodyMechanic** · 06-17-2004, 05:45 PM

dude i have been around this stuff for 9 years experienced a lot of gear and talked to alot of people,when i post something it is not because i have read it or scientifically supposed to be true, it is because i know first hand or have talked to people that i trust that have done it,and not people that are newbies. there are too many people that just post as if they know the facts like they have experienced it,but all they did was read what some else has wrote,i seen dabull post this earlier (post parrots). Now what is true for some is not true for all.

**medic23** · 06-17-2004, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by BodyMechanic

never had a problem getting it up or other people i talked to. Have you ever done a deca only cycle

I did a deca only cycle for my first cycle and loved it but I got deca dick and had to do a test cycle 2 mo later to get things in order. Knowing what I know now I would never do a deca only cycle.

**twosocks40** · 06-17-2004, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by bad_man

Just curious, how many Olympic athletes have been openly sharing their supplementation programs?

Thanks for your constructive input bad man. You have helped tremendously on my quest for knowledge.

Thanks everyone else. I am just getting ideas for other cycles that are maybe not always considered. I've done test in two cycles and had good results, just want to throw others experiences into the thought process.

-B

**bad_man** · 06-17-2004, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by twosocks40

Thanks for your constructive input bad man. You have helped tremendously on my quest for knowledge.

Thanks everyone else. I am just getting ideas for other cycles that are maybe not always considered. I've done test in two cycles and had good results, just want to throw others experiences into the thought process.

-B

Any time my brutha. And remember - green for the money and gold for the honey.

**SportsMedVIP** · 06-17-2004, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by twosocks40

Thanks for your constructive input bad man. You have helped tremendously on my quest for knowledge.

Thanks everyone else. I am just getting ideas for other cycles that are maybe not always considered. I've done test in two cycles and had good results, just want to throw others experiences into the thought process.

-B

Although he didn't contribute what you were looking for I found myself thinking the same thing he was when I read your post. Plenty of olympians, phenomenol results. Sounds like a parrot quote to me but that's just first impressions for you. Do you work out with some olympians at your gym?

**flabbywussy** · 06-17-2004, 07:43 PM

i did a deca and test cycle,but all the gains i recieved were from the test. i think deca sucks,that's why i wouldn't take it alone,or ever take it again! time for some fina and test! ooooohhhyeeeeaaaa!

**SportsMedVIP** · 06-17-2004, 07:55 PM

I guess I'll never really be able to give input on running things without test because from logical determination from research on the subject and roids in general I have determined no good reason for myself to ever run something without test. That is except for HGH, or maybe Anavar to bridge but probably not. I don't think it's right to say someone can't give input based on scietific understanding of how something works though. It should just come with a disclaimer saying so as opposed to acting like it's from experience like some.

**twosocks40** · 06-17-2004, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by bad_man

Any time my brutha. And remember - green for the money and gold for the honey.

LOL. Word!

-B

**Krunchtime** · 06-17-2004, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by BodyMechanic

dude i have been around this stuff for 9 years experienced a lot of gear and talked to alot of people,when i post something it is not because i have read it or scientifically supposed to be true, it is because i know first hand or have talked to people that i trust that have done it,and not people that are newbies. there are too many people that just post as if they know the facts like they have experienced it,but all they did was read what some else has wrote,i seen dabull post this earlier (post parrots). Now what is true for some is not true for all.

I HAVE run fina alone and quit the cycle because of the unbearable sides and winstrol . I didnt have near the problems with winny as I did with the fina. ONCE again I WILL NEVER run a cycle without a form of test. You may do as you please

**SportsMedVIP** · 06-17-2004, 08:21 PM

I would like some olympian work out tips please.

**dirtybrit55** · 06-17-2004, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by Matto20

There are many cycles you can run without test, but winny alone and equipose alone aren't good compounds to do so with. They are strong enough androgenically to shut your HPTA down and give you limp dick during your cycle, leaving you desperate to regain your normal test levels after cycle which can be difficult, even with proper PCT.

However, there are several compounds that can work well without using test in conjunction. Such as PRIMO and OXANDROLONE. They don't shut down normal test enough to cause problems and they are very easy steroids to recover from. They also offer minimal sides and slow, steady keepable gains. No hairloss to worry about, no acne to worry about, no difficult recovery to worry about... However, it could end up costing you an arm and a leg.

Personally, i ran a short 4 week winny only cycle at 50mg EOD along with tribulus back when I didnt know any better. I gained 8 SOLID AND KEPT pounds. I am a 6'3 natural ectomorph so this is no joke for me. No crash afterwards - just upped the trib. I dont think you have actually done a winny only cycle, you are just regurgitating info. No flame....and I won't be running any more winny only cycles cos I want more gains...

**Beefbody** · 06-17-2004, 08:53 PM

you have to run test! i would run it just for the sake of feeling like superman 24/7, my first cycle included sus and did not do anything until towards the end but when it finally kicked in

WOW!!!! i was lifting everything, and feeling like a million bucks, but now i am stuck to being a normal human again

until OCT

THEN its time to get nasty NASTY!! NASTYYYYYY!

**dirtybrit55** · 06-17-2004, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by Beefbody

you have to run test! i would run it just for the sake of feeling like superman 24/7, my first cycle included sus and did not do anything until towards the end but when it finally kicked in

WOW!!!! i was lifting everything, and feeling like a million bucks, but now i am stuck to being a normal human again

until OCT

THEN its time to get nasty NASTY!! NASTYYYYYY!

Excited a little?

**BodyMechanic** · 06-17-2004, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by ECoastVIP

I guess I'll never really be able to give input on running things without test because from logical determination from research on the subject and roids in general I have determined no good reason for myself to ever run something without test. That is except for HGH, or maybe Anavar to bridge but probably not. I don't think it's right to say someone can't give input based on scietific understanding of how something works though. It should just come with a disclaimer saying so as opposed to acting like it's from experience like some.

that is exactly what i meant.

**Hazard** · 06-17-2004, 09:12 PM

From my own personal experience.....

I ran a deca only cycle - 200mg's/week. I was advised from a body builder friend to run that as my 1st cycle..... Let me remind you - i didn't know ANYTHING about steroids ..... didn't know about AR or any other forum. I was jsut going by what a sucessful person told me.

To make a long story short..... i had deca dick for months and i was going on 19 years old..... not kool.....

For me - personally - i'll never run another cycle without test.... and i may never run deca again.

~Haz~

**BodyMechanic** · 06-17-2004, 09:17 PM

i have never ran a deca only cycle,but when i used to stay on gear year around i used deca only as a bridge,and i have never had deca dick,i think my wife would have welcomed it because she says i always drive her crazy wanting sex all the time.

**Toenail Juice Z** · 06-18-2004, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by twosocks40

Just wondering why everyone says you HAVE to run test with everything. There are plenty of olympic athletes who get phenomenal results from just winny. I know people who have had great results off EQ alone. Not trying to flame anyone. Just want to get some opinions of cycles that don't include test.

-B

Also nandrolone ranks 2nd in popularity with athletes even though it can be detected for ages after. It's a shame most on this board think it's ****.

**Matto20** · 06-18-2004, 10:31 AM

tons of you guys keep indicating how you ran cycles without test and how it sucked, yet none of those cycles were anavar only or primo only. they were MUCH stronger, much more androgenic compounds you were running alone (ala winstrol , deca , fina for christ sake...) that would shut you down harshly.

i'll always vehemently argue, you DON'T need to run test in conjunction with an anavar only or primo only cycle, and it can lessen side effects for many if you don't run the test. recovery is just fine and the cycles work out hunky dory.