Thread: Clen and Taurine
06-18-2004, 05:38 PM #1
Clen and Taurine
Ill be taking clen soon and I noticed this write up about clen and taurine on bb.com by "Big Cat", one of the Board Kings with 10k+ posts. Maybe you guys will help me get some sense out of this.
Anyways this is what he had to say...btw everything is word for word.
"It has come to my attention that some people have been adding taurine to their diets to decrease cramping from clenbuterol or other beta-adrenergic agonists. Whether or not there is any merit to this, I really don't know. I haven't seen any data one way or the other. I assume there must be some truth to the rumour or people wouldn't be doing it. Then again...
Regardless however, supplementing extra taurine during a diet is not advisable. It is indeed true that beta-adrenergic agonists like clenbuterol and ephedrine will reduce taurine levels, no question about it. But did anyone ever stop to think that maybe this has a reason? Your protein intake should stay the same, roughly, which means that these compounds are actively reducing taurine levels.
If anyone had bothered to look these things up for a few seconds they would have known it is with good reason. Taurine may inhibit fat loss in different ways. First of all it will increase insulin sensitivity. I didn't even need to state that, it has been used in supplements with varying success for that exact same reason. If we know that many effective fat loss aids work primarily by lowering insulin resistance (Growth hormone , noradrenaline, etc), we already know this is not a bright idea.
This lowers the threshold at which glycogen is stored again. This will increase chance of gaining fat during cheat days due to enhanced sensitivity of fat cells to insulin, and limit fat lost on dieting days since the extra stored glycogen will have to be burned again before you start burning fat again.
This is however the least of your concerns. Taurine is also known to reduce Thyroid levels. Studies have demonstrated that a high platelet level of taurine will reduce T3:T4 ratio in men. This would slow down your metabolic rate, meaning you use less calories than you would otherwise. Obviously this will result in less fat lost for the same amount of calories eaten.
Taurine may also reduce cAMP production in certain animals. The extrapolation in this case is a far fetch, but something I would like to see tested in humans. Since the cAMP acts as a second messenger in the process of lipolysis, the process of releasing fatty acids from their glycerol backbone, making them available for burning, this will reduce the amount of fat released and consequently the amount of fat burned.
This all fits nicely into the picture that free form amino acids should not be frequently used on a diet. As with carbohydrates, quickly absorbed sources create higher peak levels that also decline faster. This almost always leads to a favourable situation for a lower metabolism.
When dieting you will opt for carbohydrate sources that absorb slower, so they have less of an effect on factors influencing food intake. The same holds true for protein. You should opt for protein sources with a more anti-catabolic character, that release slower, such as casein. "
Haber CA, Lam TK, Yu Z, Gupta N, Goh T, Bogdanovic E, Giacca A, Fantus IG. N-acetylcysteine and taurine prevent hyperglycemia-induced insulin resistance in vivo: possible role of oxidative stress. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2003 Oct; 285(4): E744-53. Epub 2003 Jun 10.
Baskin SI, Klekotka SJ, Kendrick ZV, Bartuska DG. Correlation of platelet taurine levels with thyroid function. J Endocrinol Invest. 1979 Jul-Sep; 2(3): 245-9.
Hayakawa Y, Downer RG, Bodnaryk RP. Taurine inhibits octopamine-stimulated cAMP production.. Biochim Biophys Acta. 1987 Jun 15; 929(1): 117-20."
06-18-2004, 05:55 PM #2
06-18-2004, 06:28 PM #3
Bump for discussion. I'll get to these points later.
06-18-2004, 07:36 PM #4
bump again =[
06-18-2004, 07:47 PM #5Retired Vet
- Join Date
- Feb 2004
06-18-2004, 07:50 PM #6
I've read that a million times man, I know all about it. But this guy is saying some other stuff about taurine
06-18-2004, 09:34 PM #7
OK, I have several problems with this.
1. Nowhere in his treatise does he address actual dosages. "High Platelet Levels" is an ambiguous measure.
2. He does not address the problems with NOT supplementing with taurine while running clen , which are numerous and can be serious.
3. Most importantly, an increase in insulin sensitivity may very well increase muscle growth if macronutrient manipulation is on point. Insulin responses should be timed to ensure maximum glycogen replenishment, such as PWO, where a heightened insulin response is necessary.
4. He has a point regarding cheat days and spill over glycogen stores not being burnt, but the body can readjust and burn those within a one day window before entering fat loss again. That's why clen works. Regardless it still gives you a 4-5 day window of fat loss, even if the 2 day cheat meal sets you back.
Supplement with taurine or lose an organ. That simple.
06-18-2004, 09:38 PM #8
06-18-2004, 09:47 PM #9Retired Vet
Originally Posted by rambo
- Join Date
- Feb 2004
06-18-2004, 09:58 PM #10
06-18-2004, 11:18 PM #11
Uhhh what organ do you lose if you dont supplement w/ taurine? Liver?
06-18-2004, 11:28 PM #12
06-19-2004, 02:00 AM #13
Just like Rambo said, he doesn't address the issues of NOT using taurine. It's simply a predetermined conclusion with references only to support that conclusion, rather than an impartial look at the big picture. He also says that GH reduces insulin resistance when in fact the opposite is true.
Macro intake, and in particular, timing of macro intake is of utmost importance in fat loss (or LBM gain).
This is along the lines of claiming that having fuel in your gas tank/fuel cell during a drag race will add weight and therefore slow you down.....this is very true, but NOT having fuel in your gas tank also has its detriments too You have to look at the big picture.
06-19-2004, 04:02 AM #14
Ask my buddy about hunching over during one of his religouse meetings, holding onto his side for dear life like he was giving birth. Began taurine the next day, never had a problem on his clen cycles ever again. Take your **** taurine. period. lol
06-19-2004, 08:57 AM #15
is 5 grams of taurine day enough?
06-19-2004, 11:39 AM #16
06-19-2004, 11:48 AM #17Originally Posted by w_rballs
06-20-2004, 08:30 PM #18
a tad overkill, i'd say 2g is the magic number..never had a problem
06-20-2004, 08:31 PM #19
06-20-2004, 08:33 PM #20
I'll prolly stick with 500mg potasisum, 4-5g taurine. Dont want cramps :]
06-20-2004, 10:01 PM #21
I think between 2-5g is good, but one should find their magic dose. The original article posted isn't completely without merit. if 2.5g prevents cramping for someone, then why take 5g? Excess taurine is counterproductive to the very reason you're using clen .
06-20-2004, 10:11 PM #22
So basically I have to try and test it to see which dose is right for me.
06-21-2004, 09:01 AM #23
how do u know if u are taking too much?
06-21-2004, 09:04 AM #24Originally Posted by SV-1
I dont really like clen either. For me, the sides were pretty bad.
I rather just do this stack; A good diet with lots of exercise...
Side effects: a ripped body.
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