Printable View
I'm currently on my second week of running EQ and Test E, my question is that I want to throw some anavar in towards the end of the cycle but when should I throw it in(what week should I start). will my pct stay the same as show on bottom.
Wk 1-12 EQ(400mg)
Wk 1-14 Test Enan(500mg)
Wk? Anavar
10 mg Nolva ed
Start PCT 2 weeks after last Enan injection
Day 1 300mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva
Day 2 - 21 100mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva
Day 22 - 28 20mg Nolva
I'm also running b6 200mg a day.
What's your cycle history?
This will me my 2nd cycle. My first cycle was deca and cypionate
Iam running the exact same cycle right now If you can afford it run the var40-50mg
for the last 60 days of cycle.....Ive had no problems with liver values and Iam on my
6th week....Your pct shouldn't change from the eq and test cycle.....The var has
made me signifigantly stronger which in turn has broken down and made me grow alot more than without it....Plus my diet has been **** and Iam countinously losing weight
Var is great bro,you have a winning combo run the eq for a week before you quit test
though
Good Luck
KP
IMO...and IME...I like to run the anavar as a maintnenace through PCT to help keep gains. So I would run wk 6 through PCT. Peace
at what mgs would you run the var through pct?
Thanks
I'm thinking about running the var in my 9th week
wk 1-13 eq(400mg)
wk 1-14 test e(500mg)
wk 9-14 var
(how does this look?)
with the same pct as what i put down in the beginning of post.
Ive always thought that was a great idea in theory, but was afraid to testQuote:
Originally Posted by jbigdog69
it myself....What like 10mg a day throughout pct?You don't think that it
might have inhibited your recovery?Ive just read so much conflicting advice
on whether var will shut you down at low doses........
IMO and IME run it 6 weeks at leastQuote:
Originally Posted by joeybenz
I know there are people out the who have done eq/test e/var can someone give input please?
thanks for any help
but besides that solid cycle bro and at what dose were you planning on taking the var
I'm really not to sure. This is where I get alittle confused
Actually Var will not overturn your PCT it is very mild and as long as you start PCT with HCG...5000 1st wk, 3000 2nd wk, and 2000 3rd and final wk for total three wks along with 50mg clomid ed and 10mg of nolva ed (for five wks)you will be fine. I am 254lbs so I would measure your own dose to your weight but I will be doing 50mg ed. Also, keep in mind I am a competition bodybuilder. My PCT and the down time from my next cycle is not the average. 4 wks after PCT and I am back on next cycle. Peace
Iam going to run mine for 100 days at 50mg a day.......My liver will be fine...I'd run it
50mg's for last 6 weeks of cycle....
Good Luck
thanks for the adviseQuote:
Originally Posted by jbigdog69
Run the car 2 week past the test, start pct the nextday.Quote:
Originally Posted by joeybenz
JohnnyB
Bro doing more then 500iu a day isn't the best idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbigdog69
Posted by hhajdo at S’ology
Differential effect of single high dose and divided small dose administration of human chorionic gonadotropin on Leydig cell steroidogenic desensitization.
Smals AG, Pieters GF, Boers GH, Raemakers JM, Hermus AR, Benraad TJ, Kloppenborg PW.
This study compared the effect of a single high dose of hCG (1500 IU) with that of the same dose administered in multiple small doses (300 IU, once daily for 5 days) on Leydig cell steroidogenesis. Administration of a single high dose of hCG to seven healthy men raised the mean plasma testosterone (T) level to peak levels 2.1 +/- 0.2 (SEM) X the baseline value at 48 h. Thereafter plasma T decreased to below normal (0.7 +/- 0.1 X baseline) 7 days after the injection. The mean 17-hydroxyprogesterone (17-OHP) level peaked at 24 h (2.5 +/- 0.2 X baseline) and then also fell to a nadir value of 0.6 +/- 0.2 X baseline on day 7. Reflecting the early accumulation of 17-OHP over T, the 17 OHP/T ratio reached its maximum (1.6 +/- 0.1 X baseline) at 24 h at the same time when plasma estradiol [(E2) 4.4 +/- 0.6 X baseline] and the ratio E2/T (2.7 +/- 0.3 X baseline) achieved their maximal values. Administration of 1500 IU hCG in five divided doses of 300 IU daily increased the mean plasma T levels to peak value of 2.1 +/- 0.2 X baseline at 5 days and the levels remained elevated thereafter. The response of T as reflected by the area under the curve was almost twice as great as in the single dose study (2844 +/- 360 vs. 1647 +/- 214). In contrast to the single high dose experiment, mean plasma 17-OHP levels in the divided dose protocol did not peak at 24 h but only gradually increased. As the increase of T exceeded the 17-OHP increase at almost all time intervals, no accumulation of 17-OHP over T occurred as in the single dose experiment. Instead the 17-OHP/T ratio fell to a nadir value of 0.6 +/- 0.1 X baseline on day 7. The initial E2 peak was absent in the divided dose protocol and the E2/T ratio only marginally increased. Considering both experiments together a close relation was found between the hCG-induced increases in E2 and 17-OHP (r = +0.88, P less than 0.001), as well as the ratio 17 OHP/T (r = +0.64, P less than 0.02).
JohnnyB
Ive been taking 500 iu's 2 times a week every 3 weeks during cycle and that has been
keeping me swinging
Let me know how it turns out. As an average during PCT for say 200lbs I would not go over 20mg's per day. PeaceQuote:
Originally Posted by K$I$N$G$P$I$N
20mg isn't going to let anyone recover, var can shut you down with as little as 5mg. I used 20mg the first time I used var with good results.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbigdog69
Don't use var during pct if you want to recover fully.
JohnnyB
Good point Bro. Sorry guy's...to be more specific...I do injections every other day for a combined total of what i wrote each week. But I generally stay with 10,000 iu over a three week period.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyB
Here's something on low dose var
Effect of low dose oxandrolone and testosterone treatment on the pituitary-testicular and GH axes in boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty.
Crowne EC, Wallace WH, Moore C, Mitchell R, Robertson WH, Holly JM, Shalet SM.
Department of Endocrinology, Christie Hospital Trust, Manchester, UK.
OBJECTIVE: To investigate the effect of low dose oxandrolone and testosterone on the pituitary-testicular and GH-IGF-I axes. DESIGN: Prospective double-blind placebo-controlled trial.
PATIENTS: Sixteen boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty (CDGP) with testicular volumes 4-6 ml were randomized to 3 months treatment: Group 1 (n = 5), daily placebo: Group 2 (n = 5), 2.5 mg oxandrolone daily or Group 3 (n = 6), 50 mg testosterone monthly intramuscular injections with assessment (growth, pubertal development and overnight hormone profiles) at 0, 3, 6 and 12 months.
MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: LH and GH profiles (15-minute samples) were analysed by peak detection (Pulsar), Fourier transformation and autocorrelation. Testosterone levels were measured hourly and insulin, SHBG, IGF-I, and IGFBP-3 levels at 0800 h. Statistical analysis was by multivariate analysis of variance for repeated measures.
RESULTS: LH and testosterone parameters increased significantly with time in all 16 (LH AUC, P < 0.001; peak amplitude, P = 0.02; number of peaks, P = 0.02; testosterone AUC, P = 0.02; morning testosterone, P = 0.002). In Group 2, however, LH and testosterone parameters decreased at 3 months followed by a rebound increase at 6 and 12 months. SHBG levels were markedly reduced at 3 months (P = 0.006) and a wider range of dominant GH frequencies was present although GH AUC was not increased until 6 months, with an increase in GH pulse frequency but not amplitude. IGF-I levels were increased at both 3 and 12 months. In Group 3, pituitary-testicular suppression was not apparent, but GH levels increased with an increase in GH amplitude at 3 and 12 months.
CONCLUSION: Oxandrolone transiently suppressed the pituitary-testicular axis and altered GH pulsatility. Testosterone increased GH via amplitude modulation.
JohnnyB
Bro that's still a 1000iu a day or close to, the possibility of the hcg having a negitive effect at that dose is high. Over 500iu has a high chence of stimulating estrodiol too.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbigdog69
JohnnyB
But the study is based on the average person. Not someone who has been using for over 10 yrs. It is a little different at this stage. Anything less after using 750mg of test a week and my testes do not respond. PeaceQuote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyB
How does that figure into HCG? I can see 10 years figuring in AAS dose but don't see how it does for HCG. If you know something I don't please share Bro, I don't know everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbigdog69
Thanks
JohnnyB
Over many years of Testosterone usage the body get's more used to the synthestic verion as opposed to our own production. So, therefore the Hcg has less of an affect on the testes. I will try to find the study I found but it was on my old computer. It was based on Hcg and Steroid abuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyB
Okay I'd like to read itQuote:
Originally Posted by jbigdog69
JohnnyB
I will keep looking but here is something that supports what I am telling you. Recovery Of Natural Testosterone Post Cycle (pct)
Important!! The following is a text only archive!
For full features; Go to Recovery Of Natural Testosterone Post Cycle (pct)
posted by Durabolin
Recovery of natural testosterone post cycle:
A brief run down of the body’s mechanism of producing testosterone:
Hypothalmus:
Using current and recent hormone levels this part of the brain releases LHRH – Luteinising Releasing Hormone, and
GNRH – Gonadotrophin Releasing Hormone
In turn these then act on a part of the brain called the:
Pituitary:
Here LHRH stimulates the Pit. To release LH
GHRH stimulates the Pit. To release FSH.
LH and FSH then act in the..
The Hypothalmus and Pituitary are otherwise known as the HPTA
Testes:
LH stimulates the leydig cells in the Testes to produce Testosterone
FSH stimulates the testes to produce Sperm.
Inhibition
Inhibition acts on all 3 levels of production,
Hypothalmus sensing high androgens releases less LHRH and GNRH
Pituitary both from reduced LHRH and GNRH, and also excessive estrogen from steroid use and
also insufficient estrogen from using too much anti-aromatose (femera and arimidex) as well as purely non aromatisable steroids which drive estrogen down.
This has the effect of down regulating the sensitivity of the Pituitary to LHRH so it is a double sword of inhibition.
Testes:
Without sufficient LH produced by the pituitary the Testes shut down and atrophy and no natural testorone is the end result.
PREVENTING INHIBITION:
A) Minimising the effect on the HPTA
You cannot prevent inhibition at the HPTA but you can limit the effect somewhat by keeping estrogen under control.
If using large amounts of aromtising steroids, test, dianabol etc, using moderate amounts of anti-aromatose to keep estrogen in the normal range is wise. How do you know this – by blood tests.
Usually 0.25mg of Arimidex ED per 500mg of aromatising steroid is sufficient here.
So for example, 750mg of testosterone/week and 30mg of Dianabol ED = approx 1000mg of aromatising steroid so a dose of 0.5mg ED of Arimidex would be used
B) Minimising the effect on the Testes during the cycle
When the testes atrophy especially for long periods it means post cycle there is substantial lag in picking up hormone production. It is far better to prevent rather cure Testicle atrophy.
A drug called HCG is used to do so. This mimics the effects of LH on the Testes, meaning despite using steroids, the Testes continue to produce testosterone, and donot atrophy, meaning post cycle they are up and running for a much better and fuller recovery.
To do this a regime of 500iu of HCG used twice each week for the duration of the cycle, ceasing its use 10 days before starting Clomid.
This is so that the boost in Testosterone Hcg causes can subside allowing recovery of the HPTA whilst being used as long as possible to prevent atrophy.
C) Clomid Use to Restore the HPTA
The HPTA – the brain is the starting point for testosterone production, and without getting this crucial part back online you will not recover as fully or quickly.
As well as Testosterone and other ‘male’ steroids, the HPTA also uses levels of estrogen to regulate Testosterone production…
Estrogen is produced in the male by the aromatisation of testosterone to estrogen through the aromatose enzyme.
The HPTA sensing high estrogen assumes levels of Testosterone must be too high and ceases or reduces LH production.
To our advantage when the body senses low estrogen it ups the production of LH in the brain.
To achieve this effect anti estrogens, clomid and nolvadex are used
These have the effect of blocking the reception of estrogen in the HPTA so the brain is tricked into thinking LOW estrogen therefore BOOST LH and consequently Testosterone
Using Clomid and or Nolvadex
The levels of steroids must have cleared to a maximum of 100mg left in the body in order for androgen suppression to lift and any effect from
Anti estrogens to take effect..
Therefore using the half lives of the various steroid esters and amount used over the course of the cycle and the following tool::
http://powerboard.rockarfett.com/roidcalc/
calculate when steroid levels have reached 100mg total, or around 15mg a day in the body.
At this point Clomid should be started at 300mg on day 1, then 50mg ED thereafter for 4-6 weeks.
Nolvadex can be substituted at a loaded dose of 120mg day 1, then 20mg ED for 4-6 weeks
As there is some debate as to which is better some people choose to use both, in which case the abover regimes should be ran concurrently.
D) The use of fast acting steroid esters to come off
If using long acting esters, 2-3 weeks must pass until the steroids leave the system sufficiently to allow HPTA recovery.
During this time the user is still suppressed completely, but not in an anabolic state.
This period can be maximised by using short acting steroids the 2-3 weeks longer esters take to clear.
This means the user is still very anabolic for the duration of the cycle until very close to Clomid therapy.
The following steroids are excellent during this time:
Testosterone Propionate – around 2/3 of the usual weekly testosterone dose is wise, given the remaining longer esters. EG 100mg prop 3 times/week for a cycle containing 500mg Test Cyp
Anavar – a superb if costly steroid, does not aromatise so no further impact on the HPTA from estrogen
PUTTING IT ALL TOGETHER, AN EXAMPLE:
The cycle:
Week 1-8 Testosterone Enanthate @ 500mg per week
Week 9-10 Testosterone Propionate 100mg 3 times/week
Week 1- 10 – 500iu of HCG twice each week
Week 11.5 – using http://powerboard.rockarfett.com/roidcalc/ to calculate
Steroid levels have fallen to a total of 100mg/15mg per day in the body…
Start Clomid and/or Nolvadex