06-20-2004, 06:23 PM #1Associate Member
- Join Date
- May 2004
Ok bros ,please read this important info,and suggestions
I just started my cycle three days ago and i was reading this info about ,pct and what kind of sh..t to take to help me during my cycle and after cycle pct,please read ,according to this article ,there is so much **** you can take during and after a cycle that im thinking i dont have enought time in one single day to take all this stuff ,please read and suggest if all of this is right.
weeks 1-10 test. e @250 mg e5d
weeks 1-9 deca @100 mg weekly
weeks 1-10 primo @100 mg weekly
weeks 1-13 b-12 @ 100 mcg ed
week 1-10 nolva @20 mg eod -weeks 10-13 @ 50 mg ed
clomid and nolvadex for 3 weeks ,and some hcg in mid cycle.
PLEASE READ THIS :Veterans’ Consensus Statement on Post-Cycle Recovery©
Anabolic /androgenic steroids are used widely in human and veterinary medicine, and are increasingly useful to the training methods of elite athletes. Benefits of the intelligent use of anabolic/androgenic steroids include enhanced quality of life and the promise of greater longevity, as well as marked improvements in body composition, strength, and stamina. However, anabolic/androgenic steroids produce their benefits by interfering with the endocrine system, a complex system of glands and brain structures that are normally kept in an homeostatic state of balance by the action of countless subtle, sensitive feedback mechanisms. The perturbation in normal endocrine function that is introduced by the use of anabolic/androgenic steroids can, through these feedback mechanisms, elicit compensatory endocrine responses, such as up- or down-regulation of essential enzyme stores or of receptor molecules, in order to maintain homeostasis. When these compensatory mechanisms persist into the post-cycle era after steroids have been withdrawn, unwanted effects can occur, such as fatigue, depression, loss of sex drive, loss of size and strength, and others. Fortunately, both prophylactic and restorative measures that the athlete can take in this situation are now fairly well known.
Many athletes have agreed that androgenic/anabolic steroids render appreciable gains for a limited time only. As said gain period differs between individuals, this CS will refrain from any recommendations to the optimum time of such therapy but discuss methods of restoring optimum normal endocrine function.
It should be noted that the longer a cycle lasts past the eight-week mark, the harder testosterone recovery becomes. The best way of gauging ones hormonal milieu and planning compensatory measures is to have blood tests done prior to and following cessation of AAS therapy. For the purpose of this Consensus Statement and the awareness of a lack of testing athletes, the following universally accepted post cycle hormone status is assumed:
a) Luteinizing Hormone (LH): low to none, Luteinizing Hormone Releasing Hormone (LHRH): low to none
b) Testosterone (T): low
c) Estrogen (E): high in relation to T
d) Cortisol (C): high
e) Red Blood Cell (RBC) count: falling
While all of these hormone measurements are assumed on the low end of the scale, biochemical individuality will ultimately determine where a person’s levels fall. So assumption of low to substandard levels will not always be true in everyone.
1. What are the goals of testosterone recovery?
The return of hormonal balance is but one goal of this program. To create a transitional period of minimized muscle loss and sustained and/or increased motivation is another.
2. Detailed Recommendations
If the athlete is ready to come off and is still taking long acting esters he shall switch to short acting drugs in order to have complete control of exogenous hormone levels. A “waiting period” for esters to clear is unacceptable and provides for a slow slide into the post cycle catabolic state. This period of short acting supplements shall last for a minimum of 2 weeks.
a) Luteinizing Hormone and shrunken testicles
H C G
If the testis have atrophied, the introduction of H C G at 1000iu x 14 days is necessary. To prevent this atrophy from happening, the use of H C G at 500-1000iu x 4-7 days every 2-3 weeks of the AAS cycle is recommended. This will provide exogenous LH and must only be used to restore/keep proper testicle size.
Week 1-2: H C G, 500-1000iu ed
C l o m i d
The practice of using Clomid at 50mg throughout the AAS cycle or 100mg a day for 3-5 days every 4th week has been used successfully to maintain proper testicle size.
b) Low testosterone and lack of motivation
The introduction of exogenous hormones to compensate for the low endogenous testosterone levels may help to keep loss of drive, strength and muscle at bay but may also slow the recovery process. The below drug and application was chosen for its limited impact on the HPTA
D i a n a b o l
Studies and empirical evidence have shown Dianabol to be beneficial to keep Cortisol in check and provide some intermediate relief from the symptoms of low testosterone via an increase of dopamine, IGF-1, and Central Nervous System stimulation. The heightened dopamine will combat Prolactin and help raise the levels of endogenous Human Growth Hormone . Other studies point to a lack of LH suppression when taken first thing in the morning. It shall be noted that only a low dose upon rising is recommended in order to avoid further disruption of the HPTA
Week 1-6: 10mg dbol am, ed
c) High Estrogen and suppressed Hypothalamus- Pituitary- Testicular- Axis (HPTA)
Estrogen acts as the primary messenger of testosterone production. Testosterone is aromatized into estrogen, which signals the Hypothalamus to stop producing the proper testosterone release hormones. Estrogen must be kept low.
A r i m i d e x
A powerful aromatize inhibitor shall be part of every cycle. For testosterone recovery it is used to keep the testosterone/ estrogen balance in favor of testosterone. It is also of help to keep any additionally occurring estrogen from dbol and Androgel low to none. Studies have shown a 54% increase of testosterone in eugonadal patients
Week 1-10: ½-1mg ed
C l o m i d
Universally accepted as THE testosterone recovery tool. It blocks estrogen from the HPTA and stimulates the production of LHRH. LHRH then initiates the production of LH, which in turn signals the testis (if not atrophied) to produce testosterone.
Week 3-5: 100mg ed
Week 6-8: 50mg ed
N o l v a d e x
A volume of research and empirical evidence suggest the usefulness of this estrogen blocker for recovery. Its action is very similar to Clomid but may be better suited for individuals who experience side effects from Clomid.
Week 1-8: 20mg ed
d) High Cortisol, suppressed HPTA and catabolism
Cortisol is catabolic. It is the enemy of all anabolism and must be kept in check. While it is blocked when under the influence of AAS, it is free to attach to the Anabolic Receptors (AR) once the steroids leave. Due to this blockage Cortisol tends to accumulate and increase when on. A low level is desirable however since it is important for other vital functions such as control of inflammation. Balance is the key.
V i t a m i n C
At 3-5g before heavy workouts, it keeps the exercise induced rise of Cortisol in check
Always: 3-5g before workouts
D H E A
A useless pro-hormone as far as anabolism is concerned, this substance is great to keep Cortisol within normal levels. There is a correlation between high Cortisol and low DHEA levels.
Week 1-6: 150mg am and pm
H u m a l o g
It is well known that insulin possesses powerful anti Cortisol/anabolic properties, specially when used at times when Cortisol is high, such as early morning and post workout.
It is of utmost importance to be educated about insulin and its proper use. However, this CS defers to other available research material for more detailed recommendations and cautionary measures.
A minimum of 10g of dextrose/Maltodextrin per iu with a high carb/mixed glycemic index meal 45 min after insulin injection is suggested as a rough guide line for Humalog use only.
Perfect with dextrose/malto and Creatine.
Week 1-5: 10iu am and 10iu post workout
Caution: DO NOT EXCEED THESE RECOMMENDATIONS
D e x t r o s e a n d M a l to d e x t r i n
It is neither a supplement nor a drug, but these carbohydrates have a very high glycemic index and keep Cortisol levels low by increasing endogenous insulin or keep blood sugar normal when used with exogenous insulin. They also provide excellent energy for heavy workouts. In order to not gain unwanted fat, dextrose and/or maltodextrin shall be ingested during your workout and with your post workout shake only.
Always: 100g with workout water and 100g with post workout shake
e) Red Blood Cell Count and Stamina
E P O
Causes the bone marrow to increase red blood cell production and may have anabolic, fat burning and rejuvenating benefits.
It is of utmost importance to be educate about EPO and its proper use. However, this CS defers to other available research material for more detailed recommendations and cautionary measures.
Week 8: 500-1,000iu ed for 7-10 days
Caution: DO NOT EXCEED THESE RECOMMENDATIONS
C r e a t i n e
The use of Creatine has shown to increase ATP metabolism and cellular water storage among many other things. This is very beneficial because it provides for heightened nutrient storage and a slight increase in anabolism as well as workout stamina. Perfect with dextrose/maltodextrin/.
Always: 5g with workout water and 10g with post workout shake
V i t a m i n B - 1 2 & I r o n
Prolongs the life of your RBC and may be beneficial for increased oxygen transport
Week1-8: 1,000mcg ed
Miscellaneous beneficial drugs, supplements and recommendations
H G H
Administration of exogenous HGH has been shown to help maintain an anabolic environment until natural testosterone levels have reached a satisfactory level.
Week 1-8: 2iu at mid morning and 2iu at mid afternoon
Z i n c
Assists with testosterone production and is always low in weight lifting subjects. Do not consume with calcium for ease of absorption
Week1-8: 50mg ed
M a g n e s i u m
Has too many benefits for weight lifters to list
Week 1-8: 800mg every evening
V i t a m i n B - 6
Assists with testosterone production, keeps Prolactin in check and is very relaxing
Week 1-8: 200mg every evening
M e l a t o n i n
May improve sleep pattern and help increase HGH. With this supplement, the less you take the more it works.
Always: 1.5mg at nite
D e p r e n y l
Known as one of the most favorite life extension drug this dopamine enhancer provides anti-depressant properties as well as possible IGF-1 increase. Do not take with Bromocriptine.
Week 7 & 8: 5mg eod in the morning
E p h e d r a
Ephedrine HCL and related products such as Clenbuteral or Nor-ephedrine (NYC) may offer limited anti catabolic and workout stimulating benefits.
Use as preferred, but do not combine with insulin due to similarities of hypoglycemic and Eph induced over stimulation episodes
N o o t r o p i c s
A course of these "smart drugs" may be beneficial to improve blood flow to the brain and HP. No specific drug, combination of drugs and/or drug course recommendations shall be made due to varying individual preferrences
W o r k o u t a n d c a l o r i c r e s t r i c t i o n
Workouts shall be brief and focus on retaining your newly gained strength after a week long layoff. A power lift routine may be advantages at this stage. Calorie intake shall match expenditure; a calorie-restricted diet shall commence only upon complete recovery of natural testosterone production.
3. Final word
This program is based on empirical evidence, research and experimentation and represents the maximum effort to recover one’s testosterone production. Some of the above supplements and drugs may not be required or may not agree with every individual and advances in medicine may provide newer and more useful drugs for the testosterone recovery following steroid therapy.
Furthermore, it must be noted that a period of 8 weeks of abstinence from all drugs (vitamins and supplements excluded) is the minimum time recommended and that a blood test to assess actual testosterone recovery act as the only gauge for the timing of the next hormone therapy.
Anabolic/androgenic steroids wisely used have many benefits, but they produce their benefits by perturbing the natural course of endocrine function, something that can have consequences for the athlete in terms of enduring dysregulation of said endocrine function upon the cessation of anabolic use. Fortunately, both prophylactic and restorative measures that the athlete can take to restore endocrine function and prepare the way for the next cycle of anabolics are fairly well known. Problems and their solutions include (a) low levels of Luteinizing Hormone and shrunken testicles, treated by H C G & Clomid, (b) low testosterone and lack of motivation, treated by Dianabol morning applications, (c) high estrogen and suppressed Hypothalamus-Pituitary-Testicular Axis (HPTA) function, treated by Arimidex and Clomid, (d) high Cortisol, suppressed HPTA and catabolism, treated by Vitamin C, DHEA, insulin, dextrose and Maltodextrin, and (e) suppressed red blood cell count and reduced stamina, treated by EPO, Creatine, Vitamin B-12 and iron. In addition, a variety of miscellaneous beneficial drugs and supplements, such as HGH, zinc, magnesium, Vitamin B-6, Melatonin, Deprenyl and misc. Nootropics can speed post-cycle recovery.
Last edited by kubano28; 06-21-2004 at 11:15 AM.
06-20-2004, 06:25 PM #2
06-20-2004, 06:27 PM #3
thats alot to read but just do your anti e's and take vitamins...there are some guys here that can advise you about vitamins....
06-20-2004, 06:28 PM #4
actually thats a good post....good info....
06-20-2004, 06:28 PM #5
You don't necessarily have to take all of them. They have outlined different substances for different needs. Make sure you use clomid and nolvadex and you can pick and choose on the rest. Your cycle is short so you won't need most of that stuff.
06-20-2004, 07:11 PM #6Anabolic Member
- Join Date
- Jan 2003
alot of good info though.
06-20-2004, 07:13 PM #7
06-21-2004, 08:07 AM #8Associate Member
- Join Date
- May 2004
06-21-2004, 08:14 AM #9
Also change your test E dosage to everything 3.5-4 days max.. Good Luck bro.
06-21-2004, 08:27 AM #10Associate Member
Originally Posted by jmp51483
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- May 2004
06-21-2004, 10:12 AM #11Senior Member
- Join Date
- Apr 2004
There is no need to use nolva at 50mg EOD(that is almost the recommended treatment dose for gyno). Run it at 10mg ED throughout cycle and increase to 20 mg ED during PCT, and you may want to throw in some vit B-6 for the deca but at that low dose you may not need it, but its better to be safe that sorry. IMO
06-21-2004, 11:14 AM #12Associate Member
Originally Posted by kronik
- Join Date
- May 2004
Last edited by kubano28; 06-21-2004 at 11:16 AM.
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