Cortisol and Anabolic mix

**daos** · 06-26-2004, 12:20 PM

Hello all,

i am fairly new to this forum, but have read a many threads and learned alot from you guys/gals. something i cannot seem to find on this forum though is the maiting of prednisone, and any type of anabolic steroid . i have somewhat of a dillema in that i am currently taking prednisone as an anti inflamatory. i wish to start my cyp/deca cycle this coming week. has anyone ever done both of these together? should i wait till i get off of the prednisone before starting my cycle?

i am mainly worried about the health side of this. i just didnt know if my body would go into some kind of shock with both types of steroids at the same time. thanks in advance.

**einstein1905** · 06-26-2004, 12:26 PM

Hold off on starting your cycle. The prednisone will have a slight counterproductive effect on your cycle, but the AAS will have more of an inhibitory effect on the prednisone.

**daos** · 06-26-2004, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by einstein1905

Hold off on starting your cycle. The prednisone will have a slight counterproductive effect on your cycle, but the AAS will have more of an inhibitory effect on the prednisone.

so about how long do you recommend? i have been taking the prednisone for about 6 days now at 40mg/day. would 1 week be enough?

**einstein1905** · 06-26-2004, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by daos

so about how long do you recommend? i have been taking the prednisone for about 6 days now at 40mg/day. would 1 week be enough?

How long are you to be taking the prednisone?

**daos** · 06-26-2004, 12:43 PM

well, i was supposed to take it for 1 month. starting at 40mg/ day and after ten days going down to 30mg/day, etc.. until im completely off. that would take 1 month. but the fact of the matter is that i do not need to prednisone anymore. i could get off right now.

**Warrior** · 06-26-2004, 01:00 PM

Prednisone is a cortico steroid - deffinitly don't administer an anabolic steroid at the same time... you'd certainly have a conflict there...

Why are you on Prednisone - allergic reaction?

I did 40mg of Prednisone after coming off a 60mg IV drip from an Anaphylactic shock (also IV Bendryl... the open sites eat up your veins... then pills... thank God, Epenephrine... yeeeeehaa, and some pain killers like Morphine... hehe - still hurts doc... and then Tortle - sp?) - but Prenisone sucks... the only benefit I got from it was all my elbow and shoulder pain cleared - felt great. But that was at the expense of muscle and joint stability... when I got back to the gym I was shakey - almost like a new recruit...

My advice - take your Prednisone, taper it down and then when you are given a clear bill of health... look into a cycle only after you build yourself back up again naturally. You should take a couple months to get back into weight training - like I said, you'll feel a bit shakey gettin' back into the gym... you'll need some time to rebuild so you don't put too much on your system after being torn down, basically... IMO.

**daos** · 06-26-2004, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Warrior

Prednisone is a cortico steroid - deffinitly don't administer an anabolic steroid at the same time... you'd certainly have a conflict there...

Why are you on Prednisone - allergic reaction?

I did 40mg of Prednisone after coming off a 60mg IV drip from an Anaphylactic shock (also IV Bendryl... the open sites eat up your veins... then pills... thank God, Epenephrine... yeeeeehaa, and some pain killers like Morphine... hehe - still hurts doc... and then Tortle - sp?) - but Prenisone sucks... the only benefit I got from it was all my elbow and shoulder pain cleared - felt great. But that was at the expense of muscle and joint stability... when I got back to the gym I was shakey - almost like a new recruit...

My advice - take your Prednisone, taper it down and then when you are given a clear bill of health... look into a cycle only after you build yourself back up again naturally. You should take a couple months to get back into weight training - like I said, you'll feel a bit shakey gettin' back into the gym... you'll need some time to rebuild so you don't put too much on your system after being torn down, basically... IMO.

sounds like a good plan of action to me. thats actually what im trying to do as we speak now...get myself into better health for the gym. i am taking the prednisone for Crohn's disease. i had a flare up about a month ago, and they recently put me on pred for the inflamation. but all is clear now as far as the inflamation, so i wanted to get off. my anti biotics are gone, and im already starting to diet again. i have put on like 8 pounds in 5 days just from eating right again.

the great thing about anabolic for me is that it really seems to help alot with the disease. i have done three cyces in my life, and never had a flare up while in a cycle. while a large amount of anabolic steroids are in my body, i always feel great! nice and healthy, and i stay in the gym. it seems though, that once i let myself go, for whatever reason, i always end up sick again.

i have been seriously thinking about doing the HGH for like a 6 month period. my doctor said he will prescribe it to me once i can afford the treatments. when i was first diagnosed with Crohn's, they wanted to treat me with HGH, but it was like 1000 bucks per 2-3 i.u.'s then. now its alot more cost effective, but my insurance will not cover it. so it will need to come straight out of pocket.

anabolics seem like the only way for me to get really good gains, while keeping weight on me and feeling as strong as i should at my age. without them, i feel weak, and the disease seems to get the better half of me. i would really like some advice on what all is needed for a HGH treatment. not from a doctor(since i have already gotten that), but from someone that has experience with it.

**Warrior** · 06-26-2004, 02:12 PM

I am unsure how GH will effect this disease... I do know GH can cause tissue growth in more than just muscle but einstein1905 might have further info on how GH might effect the disease... there is a sperate GH forum...

But if you can get GH presribed to you; you will know it is legit, have well-informed medical supervision and know the product has been kept refrigerated - stored correctly...

Have you had blood work done to determine to see if you naturally have low androgen levels? Has you Doc mentioned anything about HRT and chrons - not with GH but testosterone ?

**daos** · 06-26-2004, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by Warrior

I am unsure how GH will effect this disease... I do know GH can cause tissue growth in more than just muscle but einstein1905 might have further info on how GH might effect the disease... there is a sperate GH forum...

But if you can get GH presribed to you; you will know it is legit, have well-informed medical supervision and know the product has been kept refrigerated - stored correctly...

Have you had blood work done to determine to see if you naturally have low androgen levels? Has you Doc mentioned anything about HRT and chrons - not with GH but testosterone?

yes, that is why i am about to start my deca /cypionate cycle. my blood work has already been examined and my red blood cells are really low, while my white blood cells are extremely high. i asked the doctor about the prednisone, and he said it wouldnt affect the cycle much, and to just do as instructed with the 10mg/week decrease. this is a new doctor, so im not really sure about him. he seems to know what he is talking about, but seems to agree with what i say to easily. its almost like i end up telling him what is best, instead of him telling me whats best and why! thats why i am here, cause i wanted another opinion about this stuff before i jump the gun.

right now i have been prescribed 300mg of Deca along with 400mg of Cypionate per week for 10 weeks. two weeks following the HRT, i will begin my HCG treatment at 10,000i.u's every 4 days...i think. im not really sure about that for now though. according to everyone else on this forum, my PCT should involve more than just HCG though, so once again, im getting concerned about this doctor.

yeah, if einstein or anyone else could help, i would greatly appreciate it.

**einstein1905** · 06-26-2004, 03:03 PM

Firt things first; the doses of HCG he's suggesting are crazy high and do not constitute pct by themselves. Clomid is a must and should be used after a few weeks of E4D shots of about 500IUs of HCG.

It sounds like your case isn't giving you problems with macro absorption, if you gained 8 pounds naturally already since getting back. With Crohn's, I'd be skeptical of believing one could absorb enough protein (aa's), but that'll be dependent on exactly the region of your SI affected.

It makes sense that while on AAS you get less inflammation. AAS tend to skew the immune system to more of a type II environment, which is primarily for bacterial pathogens and other extracellular stuff, whereas type I immunity deals with intracellular pathogens, and, relevant to you, autoimmunity.

The problem with GH is that is a general "bolsterer" of immunity, and in normal people, this is a good thing, but in those with some type of autoimmunity, the opposite could be true. I'm not saying that you WILL have problems...I'm just saying that in your case there is an additional factor to consider.

**Warrior** · 06-26-2004, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by einstein1905

It sounds like your case isn't giving you problems with macro absorption, if you gained 8 pounds naturally already since getting back. With Crohn's, I'd be skeptical of believing one could absorb enough protein (aa's), but that'll be dependent on exactly the region of your SI affected.

Maybe the 8 pounds was from the Prednisone? Increased bodyweight is very common... from an increase in appetite and slower metabolism...

**daos** · 06-26-2004, 04:38 PM

ok guys, i know this has been asked a thousand times on this forum, but i feel that my case is a bit unique. how should my PCT come out. should i go 500iu HCG the day of last injection every 4 days for 2 weeks. then stop the HCG and start Clomid at 300mg first day, and 100mg 2day-30day?

either way, i seem to be gaining and putting my weight back on. i am still having problems with my bowel, but they should be ok once my anti fungus meds are almost over with. anywho, once i get my weight back up to where it should be, ill start weining myself off the prednisone.

should i maybe take a couple HCG shots after getting off of the prednisone since my estrogen levels are going to be higher? should i do a mild PCT before starting my cycle? thanks again...

**einstein1905** · 06-26-2004, 04:45 PM

I would consider HCG in a situation where deca was used or fina for a longer period OR at the end of a longer cycle. Some people (most) take it to prevent atrophy (testes), but I see no point. I use it to regain testicular size (maintaining testicular size throughout a cycle is just for aesthetics). You can begin HCG while you're still using AAS. I say 3-5 weeks max of 500IUs E4D is all anyone should need to regain testes size. Your clomid will begin based on the active life of the AAS used....don't move that date back to extend HCG use....move HCG use earlier if anything.

No need for any pct prior to a cycle.

**flexin-rph** · 06-26-2004, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by daos

well, i was supposed to take it for 1 month. starting at 40mg/ day and after ten days going down to 30mg/day, etc.. until im completely off. that would take 1 month. but the fact of the matter is that i do not need to prednisone anymore. i could get off right now.

You really need to continue (& finish) your prednisone taper as prescribed.
At the dose you are currently taking, if you d/c you could end up in an
adrenal crisis & have bigger problems than the Crohn's. Talk to your doctor
before abruptly stopping!!!

**daos** · 06-26-2004, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by flexin-rph

You really need to continue (& finish) your prednisone taper as prescribed.
At the dose you are currently taking, if you d/c you could end up in an
adrenal crisis & have bigger problems than the Crohn's. Talk to your doctor
before abruptly stopping!!!

yeah i know all about the adrenal shutdown when instantly stopping prednisone. its a serious bitch if you decide to just quit cold turkey. i wold never do that though. im coming off of it very slowely as we speak just as i should.

**rhapsody** · 06-26-2004, 06:14 PM

what type of insurance do you have?? 5 yrs ago I had a medical issue. Had rHGH Rx. By a very prominent well known Dr. who was incidently oringinally involved in sublingual andro spray .But I had no medical insurance. After $3000 had to stop the experimental therapy. However, I consulted with a few insurance plans & found out that the rHGH was a authorized drug if a VALID Rx. Perhaps with a pre-existing desease it's not the case. good luck