Hard on problems anyone?

[manny]

Has anyone ever heard of erection problems after a cycle? I've taken two cycles in my life and followed them up with clomid therapy. The last cycle I took ended in August of 2003. It is now Aug, 2004 and I still am not seeing the same hard ons I used to have before and during steroid use . I'm not impotent or anything, they're just not as strong and don't last as long. I hope that's not too much information, but it's just bugging me out. Is there anything I can take over the counter to help out? Any suggestions on what I should/can do? I'm 23, this shouldn't be happening yet.

[birsling]

Bro, I don't have the experience/knowlege to properly answer your question. With that being said, I think you may be looking at your last line. You are 23 now, and have already done 2 cycles. I am from the school that says even if your PCT is in line, using aas before the age of 24/25 can have some lasting effects. Good luck with it bro, and I am interested to hear a more knowledgeable opinion.

[mark956101957]

You will never have the erections off a cycle as you will on a cycle, not going to happen.

[Pale Horse]

Try cialis or viagra until you get your confidence back. MY02

[BUYLONGTERM]

Tribulis

[1-Cent]

You will never have the erections off a cycle as you will on a cycle, not going to happen.

I think like mark said its probably all in your head, don't expect to have a hard on 24/7 like on test.

[Pale Horse]

1-Cent, that's why I recommended cislis or viagra for a bit, it's probably in his head (the one on his shoulders!LOL) Once he starts pounding it good again he will have his confidence back.

[johnsomebody]

Keep in mind this guy is saying he's not back to what he was BEFORE he did gear.

Nobody should have to go through that at 23! What kind of cycles did you do and for how long?

[DirtyDog]

Dont want to worry you or anything by saying this but, if I was you I would just go see my doc, tell him what you told us and see what he/she says.

It wont go any further than you and the doctor and if anyone can sort you out surely he/she can.

Like I said, thats just what I would do! After all, it is a year ago since your last cycle and if things aint back to normal by themself that says to me an expert needs to be enlisted.

Good luck

[manny]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I hear ya dirtdog, it's just tough for me to actually admit that **** face to face to anybody. And like johnsomebody said, i'm not looking for hardons like i had on the test, i'm looking for ones that i had before the test.

[thejuiceisloose]

Try Tribulus ED 5-6g, eat a cup of blueberries everyday(it helps with increasing bloodflow). Good luck!

[hung-solo]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I hear ya dirtdog, it's just tough for me to actually admit that **** face to face to anybody. And like johnsomebody said, i'm not looking for hardons like i had on the test, i'm looking for ones that i had before the test.

did you run proper pct and time on=time off? imo, i would probably only run 1-2 cycles a year just to allow my boys to get back to work.

[thejuiceisloose]

did you run proper pct and time on=time off? imo, i would probably only run 1-2 cycles a year just to allow my boys to get back to work.

I agree 2 cycles a yr is good, gives enough time for the nat. test to come back to norm

[co2boi]

Tribulus or Tongkat Ali + Arginine + Porn =

[thejuiceisloose]

Tribulus or Tongkat Ali + Arginine + Porn =

LMAO + porn! Yes Arginine is good as well 2-3g ED

[manny]

what exactly does tribulus do?

[John88Test]

CIALIS....I RECOMMEND THIS HIGHLY...5 times one night...cmon...this **** is amaaaaaaaaaaaaaazing......later

[birsling]

what exactly does tribulus do?

Trib is an herb that promotes an increase in natural test in your body. Take a very high dose (5-6g) and see what happens. I add trib to PCT, and a lot of people use trib throughout a cycle. I think that it works pretty well, and it is cheap. Don't listen to the bottle, as most say take 1-2 625mg caps a day. Trust us, 5-6000 mg/day right now to try and get you back on track.

[BeefCakeStew]

what exactly does tribulus do?

Posted this before:

It is hard to find conclusive support for the length of time it takes Tribulus to become effective on LH levels. I have read anywhere from 3-30 days to see significant increases in libido for men. Nonetheless, studies in rats show that “(3) Increase in the levels of testosterone and its reduced form, dihydrotestosterone, both acting centrally and peripherally to promote sexual behavior, because androgenic hormones are known to restore libido”.

In otherwords, Trib stimulates the central nervous system directly to increase the secretion of LH thus resulting in an increased level of testosterone . I have also read that Tribulus only increases Testosterone levels when they are below normal, and have very little effect once Test levels are at or above normal range.

And from what I have read from a few different places, There are “no side effects have yet been reported in the medical literature regarding the use of tribulus terrestris. However, little is known about the long-term use of tribulus consumption in humans. As with most herbs, it is best to take breaks from use.”


Here is one of the few thorough studies I could find on the effects Trib and the Libido.

Sexual Effects of Puncturevine (Tribulus terrestris)
Extract (Protodioscin): An Evaluation Using a Rat Model

KALAMEGAM GAUTHAMAN, M.B.B.S., ADAIKAN P. GANESAN, Ph.D., D.Sc.,
and R.N.V. PRASAD, F.A.M.S., F.R.C.O.G., D.Sc.
http://web22.epnet.com/externalframe...k%3D&fn=1&rn=9

Its 164kb so I couldnt add it as an attachment. If you cant open from the link you can PM with email addy and I can send you the PDF.

[birsling]

Here ya go bro, got this off of Bulk Nutrition's Website:

Tribulus Information
By David Tolson


Tribulus terrestris L., a member of the Zygophyllaceae family, is an annual herb found in many areas of the world, including the US and Mexico, the Mediterranian region, and throughout Asia [1-4]. It is also used in the folk medicine of many areas, such as India, China, and Turkey [1, 3]. Traditional uses include treatment of sexual impotency, edema, abdominal distention, cardiovascular disease, kidney problems, and as a cough remedy [1, 3]. It also has a reputation for having anabolic effects in some areas of the world [4]. A large amount of potential active components have been identified in tribulus, including steroidal saponins, lignanamides, alkaloids, and flavanoids [5]. The amount of these components can vary significantly based on the region of origin and the part of the plant used [1-2]. HPLC analysis of different tribulus supplements revealed significant product-to-product variations in active ingredients [4], presumably due to different regions of origin. The current research indicates that the steroidal saponins, particularly the dominant saponin protodioscin, are responsible for the pharmacological activities of tribulus [4].

One of the most well-known properties of tribulus is as an aphrodisiac, and as a putative testosterone elevator. Tribulus does increase sexual function in animal models, and also reportedly improves libido in humans [6-7]. However, this is not necessarily indicative of a testosterone-increasing effect – there are other possible reasons, such as the hypotensive effect of tribulus. There is limited information regarding the effect tribulus ultimately has on testosterone levels . Translated Bulgarian research indicates that tribulus increased testosterone and luteinizing hormone (LH) levels in depressed men who were part of infertile couples [8]. When protodioscin is administered to castrated rats, it increases levels of testosterone , LH, DHEA, and DHT [7].

Two mechanisms have been proposed for these increases – the first being that protodioscin directly increases LH, and the second being that protodioscin increases levels of DHEA (which would ultimately mildly increase testosterone ), perhaps by functioning as a precursor [3, 9]. The neural effects of DHEA would also explain the aphrodisiac properties [7]. However, it should be noted that if the latter is the case, it would open the possibility that tribulus could ultimately lead to lower natural production of testosterone. The ultimate effect of tribulus on testosterone levels in healthy humans, and consequently the effect on body composition and exercise performance, remains to be seen. The present research is not promising – a trial in fifteen resistance trained subjects found that tribulus did not improve body composition or strength over an eight week period [10]. On the other hand, this trial may not have even used a tribulus extract with adequate quantities of the active ingredients.

There has also been clinical research on the use of tribulus in many medical conditions, usually with positive results. Biological properties of tribulus extracts include diuretic properties, increased endothelial nitric oxide, direct smooth muscle relaxant effects, and ACE inhibition [2, 11]. In vitro, tribulus also inhibits COX-2 [12]. Cardiovascular conditions in which tribulus has showed promise include high blood pressure, high cholesterol, coronary heart disease, and angina pectoris [2-3, 13]. In both normal and diabetic mice, tribulus decreases serum glucose, perhaps by inhibiting gluconeogenesis [14-15]. Tribulus also inhibits stone formation in experimental animals [3] and may have hepatoprotective properties [16]. It may also be useful in the treatment of vitiligo and bacterial infections [3]. A number of other uses have been reported in traditional medical systems.

In human trials using tribulus, it has been reported as safe and side effect free [2-3, 17]. One trial reported no negative effect on the circulatory system or hepatic and renal function [17]. Toxic effects have been observed in sheep fed large amounts of tribulus [18], but are not likely to be applicable to normal supplemental use by humans. The LD50 of tribulus-derived saponins in mice is 813 mg/kg, which is considerably higher than the commonly used dose (which rarely exceeds more than a gram daily of saponins). In conclusion, tribulus is a relatively safe supplement that has aphrodisiac properties and may be beneficial to the cardiovascular system. The effect on testosterone levels and related variables is not well established.

Here is the link http://www.1fast400.com/?articleID=68

[johnsomebody]

I think tribulus might be worth a try too. The good thing about it is it's available over the counter, unlike Cialis or Viagra (and no 23 year old guy should have to take Viagra in my opinion).

Personally I'd be really leery of telling my doc about using gear. I'd suggest if the problem continues despite several weeks of trib you might think of talking to your doc about your probs NOT mentioning gear. If your doc has your test levels checked then you could tell if it's in your head or otherwise.

By the way, you CAN order testing for your test levels yourself via healthcheckusa.com if you want to avoid the doc altogether. I've done it myself and it's not expensive. You can go to any of a number of clinics for the blood draw then they send you the report in the mail.

The thing about telling your doc is he/she CAN enter the gear usage info on your insurance record which isn't good.

[BeefCakeStew]

Birsling, here are a couple of the studies David Tolson refers to. They are worth a read if you interested in the subject. I am definately a fan of Trib. Been taking 10g/day.



Aphrodisiac properties of Tribulus Terrestris extract (Protodioscin) in normal and castrated rats
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...04c6eb07345506

The individuals in this study were only taking trib 3.2mg/kg body weight. That only about 300mg for that average person. We take 20x times that amount for our purposes .

The effects of Tribulus Terrestis on Body Compostion and Exercise Performance in Resistance Trained Males


http://web22.epnet.com/externalframe...%3D&fn=1&rn=16

[johnsomebody]

The effects of Tribulus Terrestis on Body Compostion and Exercise Performance in Resistance Trained Males


http://web22.epnet.com/externalframe...%3D&fn=1&rn=16

I didn't read the first study but for the record this one reports no improvement at all in exercise performance from using tribulus compared to the placebo-control group. The trib group actually performed worse than the control group on the bench press. It also mentions (it won't let me cut and paste text so you have to read it yourself) "irreversable" weakness and partial paralysis in the hindlimbs of sheep from Australian tribulus! (This should be another thread!)

[BeefCakeStew]

I didn't read the first study but for the record this one reports no improvement at all in exercise performance from using tribulus compared to the placebo-control group. The trib group actually performed worse than the control group on the bench press. It also mentions (it won't let me cut and paste text so you have to read it yourself) "irreversable" weakness and partial paralysis in the hindlimbs of sheep from Australian tribulus! (This should be another thread!)

Thats what Birsling's quote from 1fast40.. states. However, pay attention to the doses. The participants were only given about 3.2mg/KG of body weight--we take 20x that amount. I have also read that Trib only raises Test levels, if they were low to begin with. The study would have been more interesting if the males had Low test levels or hypogonadism or were recovering from a steroid cycle.

However, in rat models and in some studies conducted humans, Trib definately raises LH.

[birsling]

Just read both links BeefCake. Good reads, both of them. The second link was interesting, and I thought it had some inaccuracies as far as measurements. I didn't think that there was enough "control" between the two groups to isolate the verdict. Seems like the inconsistencies when comparing the diets of the two groups could have skewed the study. Still good reads, nonetheless.

[BeefCakeStew]

Just read both links BeefCake. Good reads, both of them. The second link was interesting, and I thought it had some inaccuracies as far as measurements. I didn't think that there was enough "control" between the two groups to isolate the verdict. Seems like the inconsistencies when comparing the diets of the two groups could have skewed the study. Still good reads, nonetheless.

Couldn't agree with you more. That is why I still run Trib. The article didn't seem to convincing. Nonetheless, it's good to have the studies as part of one's research background.

[birsling]

You are right! Studies instead of "he said, she said." That is why I am on this board. There are still a lot of people here that take the time to find, study, and comment on scientific information. I for one, also take Trib and think that it works. I do not take it year round, but do it when I think that I need to for about a month or so.

Manny, I think this is worth a try bro, especially if you do not want to run to your doc right away. Try this for a month/month and a half.

[manny]

Alright boys, I'm sold on the Tribulus. I pounded my girl last night one last time with the guy I got working for me now, but I'm looking forward to hearing her once the tribulus kicks in and get back to my old self.