clen for anti-catabolic uses... how much?

***Mr. Sparkle*** · 07-05-2004, 11:09 PM

I know that clen is a good anti-catabolic compound, but at what doses does it really start kicking ass? 60mcg? 100mcg? It works really well for me... I just dont like seeing the scale go down, so I wouldnt want to use a lot to lose fat. I would want to use it to keep muclse during PCT... so any guesses?

**KAEW44** · 07-05-2004, 11:26 PM

some dont recomend using it during PCT, i think thats because you dont want to lose too much weight during PCT. Its probabaly better to keep your diet good during PCT and keep your training hard too! after you are way done with PCT then think of a
'cutting only' plan wich doent have to include any gear at all, you can just do a good cutting using clenbuterol and over the counter thermogenic products.

**KAEW44** · 07-05-2004, 11:28 PM

I dont think using more or less clen will drastically affect how much muscle you loose, diet and exercise will do that for you mostly, you can take clen and sit on a couch and it wont give you good weightloss

***Mr. Sparkle*** · 07-05-2004, 11:28 PM

your not getting what im asking, I dont want to lose a lot of fat... I want to keep muclse hence the title. I want to know what the dosage is to where the anticatabolic effects are good and worthwhile

**iNvid** · 07-05-2004, 11:57 PM

Same dosage as normal. Start with 20mcg, go up to 100mcg. If its your first cycle. Check out the clen handbook and use the 1st example cycle.

***Mr. Sparkle*** · 07-06-2004, 12:15 AM

Am I not being clear? I have used clen twice. and went up to 180mcg... each time lost 7-8lbs in 8-10 days... All I wanted to know was how much was needed for a good anti-catabolic effect so in PCT it will keep the muscle i have worked so hard for

**Latimus** · 07-06-2004, 01:00 AM

Are you not listening? dont worry about clen as your PCT key to keeping gains...EAT, train and rest...worry more about getting your natural test back bro...

if not..check out the handbook for the way to use it...

**Animal Cracker** · 07-06-2004, 02:10 AM

Clen is not a muscle saver- it just doesnt have catabolic qualities itself. It is not a post cycle "gains preservative". Many people this "anti-catabolic" and assume it will save them- train, eat, PCT will do it.

**Anhydro78** · 07-06-2004, 02:15 AM

No this is a very good question. What dose is the minimum dose to have clen have an Anti-Catabolic effect???? I have seen posted suggesting you use clen during PCT as well as Ephedrine, but Ephedrine doesnt have as good an effect.

These guys dont know, wait till someone could help you!!! Clen is suppose to be really good for keeping gains during PCT.

**Dally** · 07-06-2004, 04:25 AM

Id say ... but of course dont know for sure, that the anti catabolic effects come into play when you feel some sides, sides mean its working. But if there are no sides due to length of use or not a high enough dose etc etc .... then i''d have to say that it aint doin squat, or not as much as you may want.

but, then again what the hell do I know..... nothin thats what.

just sorta common senseish.... but BUMP

**rambo** · 07-06-2004, 05:35 AM

What the hell are half of you talking about?

Sparkle, I'd say 80mcg.

***Mr. Sparkle*** · 07-06-2004, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by rambo

What the hell are half of you talking about?

Sparkle, I'd say 80mcg.

Man thank you very much. least someone people got what I was asking...
IAnd for one I am listening, I know its not a staple for PCT am not wanting it to be. Just if a little bit of clen helps I was wondering about how much? I was not going to change anything in my PCT I dont need to. I know to eat more and sleep more and yadda yadda. all I was wondering when id get the anti-catabolic effects of clen...

**rambo** · 07-06-2004, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle

Man thank you very much. least someone people got what I was asking...
IAnd for one I am listening, I know its not a staple for PCT am not wanting it to be. Just if a little bit of clen helps I was wondering about how much? I was not going to change anything in my PCT I dont need to. I know to eat more and sleep more and yadda yadda. all I was wondering when id get the anti-catabolic effects of clen...

Why not run slin also? I'll be posting a writeup on slin/clen soon. PM me if you want info sooner.

**jmp51483** · 07-06-2004, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by rambo

Why not run slin also? I'll be posting a writeup on slin/clen soon. PM me if you want info sooner.

Now that is interesting...

***Mr. Sparkle*** · 07-06-2004, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by rambo

Why not run slin also? I'll be posting a writeup on slin/clen soon. PM me if you want info sooner.

Because Im not that hard core....

Ill still PM because I might one day

**kronik** · 07-06-2004, 03:49 PM

Bro you can Clen and anytime during cycle and/or PCT. I personally am going to use CLEN during PCT to help keep the gains I worked my ass off for these past 12 weeks. Clen is a anti-catabolic which means it will help preserve lean muscle and aid in weight lose during PCT when you are trying to cut up...

**ColdSore** · 07-06-2004, 03:55 PM

sparkle....

anti-catabloic properties are slim to none...i hear ya on the weight loss thing...but for me, i like clen at a high dose for the energy...and personally it increases my appetite...

i think youd be fine with 100-120mcgs and not burn off to much fat...just add more cals and youll be fine IMO...w/o a reduced cal diet, cardio is the only other way youll loose the weight...just lay off the cardio...add 2 more meals and go with it

**kronik** · 07-06-2004, 04:02 PM

Taken from the home page of this site:

Clenbuterol is a very interesting and remarkable compound. It is not a steroid hormone but a beta-2-symphatomimetic. Clenbuterol, above all, has a strong anti-catabolic effect, which means it decreases the rate at which protein is reduced in the muscle cell, consequently causing an enlargement of muscle cells. For this reason, numerous athletes use Clenbuterol after steroid treatment to balance the resulting catabolic phase and thus obtain maximum strength and muscle mass. A further aspect of Clenbuterol is its distinct fat-burning effect. Clenbuterol burns fat without dieting because it increases the body temperature slightly, forcing the body to burn fat for this process. Due to the higher body temperature Clenbuterol magnifies the effect of anabolic /androgenic steroids taken simultaneously, since the protein processing is increased.

**bluethunder** · 07-06-2004, 04:23 PM

I cannot speak too much about clen as I have just started taking it for the next 2 wks. But, I wish to comment on kronik'sc thread. Im not sure reducing protein in the muscell cell causes the muscell cells to grow??what the hell!! Dont add up.. Or Maybe Im misreading... If anything it will only help maintain muscell provided all else is in check ie. diet,training ect..

**nsa** · 07-06-2004, 04:29 PM

I think the anti-catabolic effects of clen is in the fact that you can eat alot more calories to fuel your body and not gain fat. Up your caloric intake and take clen at a decent dose and you should be good to go. Im running clen at 200 mcg ED, split up twice a day at 100 mcg each time. Might be a little too much but i like it, like coldstone said it def gives you an energy boost.

**ColdSore** · 07-06-2004, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by kronik

Taken from the home page of this site:

Clenbuterol is a very interesting and remarkable compound. It is not a steroid hormone but a beta-2-symphatomimetic. Clenbuterol, above all, has a strong anti-catabolic effect, which means it decreases the rate at which protein is reduced in the muscle cell, consequently causing an enlargement of muscle cells. For this reason, numerous athletes use Clenbuterol after steroid treatment to balance the resulting catabolic phase and thus obtain maximum strength and muscle mass. A further aspect of Clenbuterol is its distinct fat-burning effect. Clenbuterol burns fat without dieting because it increases the body temperature slightly, forcing the body to burn fat for this process. Due to the higher body temperature Clenbuterol magnifies the effect of anabolic/androgenic steroids taken simultaneously, since the protein processing is increased.

those profiles are old and i dont belive it.

**kronik** · 07-06-2004, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by bluethunder

I cannot speak too much about clen as I have just started taking it for the next 2 wks. But, I wish to comment on kronik'sc thread. Im not sure reducing protein in the muscell cell causes the muscell cells to grow??what the hell!! Dont add up.. Or Maybe Im misreading... If anything it will only help maintain muscell provided all else is in check ie. diet,training ect..

It did not say it will rudce protein in the muscle cell, it will reduce the rate in which protein is reduced. Remember that your body is always trying to reach a point of homeostasis(a point in which your body is most comfortable trying to maintain). If you decrease the rate of protein reducing you will save muscle...

**bluethunder** · 07-06-2004, 05:01 PM

Yea, but it say "ENLARGEMENT OF MUSCELL CELLS" thats my beef

**rambo** · 07-06-2004, 05:14 PM

Those of you who wanted info on clen and insulin together to cut can find it here:

http://forums.steroid.com/igf-1-lr3-hgh-insulin-questions/110836-how-use-insulin-clen-cut.html#post1106680

Just put it up.

***Mr. Sparkle*** · 07-06-2004, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by ColdStone

sparkle....

anti-catabloic properties are slim to none...i hear ya on the weight loss thing...but for me, i like clen at a high dose for the energy...and personally it increases my appetite...

i think youd be fine with 100-120mcgs and not burn off to much fat...just add more cals and youll be fine IMO...w/o a reduced cal diet, cardio is the only other way youll loose the weight...just lay off the cardio...add 2 more meals and go with it

FWIW I used clen for 10 days... went up to 180mcg and lost 7 lbs. Didnt do one single thing of cardio. I got stronger on all of my excersizes... So clen kicks ass for me. I saw my friend today that I havent seen for two weeks. He said that I looked the same size just leaner... he said that the striations in my tri was really cool looking, and Id have to agree

I like talking about this stuff rather than is my d-bol only cycle for 4 weeks good? Or the same **** questions over and over.

And thanks for the slin info rambo!!!

**bluethunder** · 07-06-2004, 05:29 PM

I did find a site http://gateway.nlm.nih.gov. (type clenbuterol & protein) There are many studies showing clenbuterol does have a effect increasing muscell mass & creatine kinase. Allows for better protein utilization. Most studies on rats & horses. Well Im using it for fat loss now But if it helps keep muscell thats all the better

**bluestrm** · 07-06-2004, 07:05 PM

Wow! This is the only forum that I have seen where a majority of the people had no idea of clens anti-catabolic effects. It has been incorporated into PCT for quiet some time. I'm glad you guys found articles on it, because I was having a hell of a time finding some.

**UrbanLegend** · 07-06-2004, 07:17 PM

The evidence points to clen not having anabolic properites....althout its pretty inconclusive, its never been proven in humans to be anabolic.

Here are the studies on animals. These say clen has anabolic properties:
Ricart-Firinga C, Stevens L, Canu MH, Nemirovskaya TL, Mounier Y. Effects of beta(2)-agonist clenbuterol on biochemical and contractile properties of unloaded soleus fibers of rat. Am J Physiol Cell Physiol 2000 Mar; 278 (3) : C582-8

Hayes A, Williams DA. Long-term clenbuterol administration alters the isometric contractile properties of skeletal muscle from normal and dystrophin-deficient mdx mice. Clin Exp Pharmacol Physiol 1994 Oct; 21 (10) : 757-65

Maltin CA, Delday MI, Hay SM, Smith FG, Lobley GE, Reeds PJ. The effects of the anabolic agent, clenbuterol, on overloaded rat skeletal muscle. Biosci Rep 1987 feb; 7 (2) :143-9

Here is the study that was done on HUMANS, which says that clen is catabolic to fat and shows no anabolic properties:
Human fat cell beta-adrenergic receptors : beta-agonist dependent lipolytic reponses and characterization of beta-adrenergic bindingsiteson human fat cell membranes with highly selective beta-1 agonists. J lipid Res 1988 May; 29 (5) : 587-601

Not to mention, animal studies used much higher dosses than humans could safely take:
Prather ID, Brown DE, North P, Wilson JR. Clenbuterol : a substitute for anabolic steroids ? Med Sci Sports Exerc 1995 Aug; 27 (8) : 1118-21

So what does this mean? I don't know, its pretty inconclusive. The animal studies, although using very high dosses, support the idea of Clen having anabolic properties. But the human study does not. So my point is......don't count on clen being anabolic. I have never used it, perhaps those that have should input, but it has never been proven in humans that clen is anything but catabolic.