HCG cycling?

[freakyjuicer]

I read your article regarding HCG at http://www.pharmaeurope.com/HCG.asp

What would you think about the following cycle:

wks1-12 test e 750mg/wk
wks1-12 deca 600mg/wk
wks1-12 HCG 250IU/wk
wks1-4 abombs 50mg/day

The reasoning behind even taking the HCG during the cycle is to prevent natural test production from stopping and testicular atrophy. If, as the article says, 5000IU is the appropriate dosage, would 250IU even have an effect?

Thanks

P.S. Here is an article I picked up off of here in the PCT section.
It says that 250IU to 500IU/week is a good dose. Why would there be such a huge difference between the 2 articles?


Swale's pct protocol

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Here is the pct protocol by Swale who is a Doctor who is a HRT specialist.


My PCT Protocol
Since I've been hanging out here a bit lately, I've been getting quite a few emails from guys wanting individualized advice on their cycles. In the first place, I cannot design cycles, nor do I prescribe steroids (just ancillary medications). That would be a violation of my Oath as a physician, and DEA law to boot. Also, obviously I cannot afford to give away free Consultations. So, I'll post my PCT Protocols here, for anyone who may choose to use them.

Also, I'm just running to catch a plane for Las Vegas, attending the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine International Conference. I guess they are supposed to publish an article I wrote on how to administer TRT for men. Wish me luck!

Here it is:

I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid -induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex , is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel , or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are.

I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).

All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.

[Money Boss Hustla]

What's your cycle history? Stats? etc.

Most people do 500iu on Sat and Sun.

[BeefCakeStew]

I read your article regarding HCG at http://www.pharmaeurope.com/HCG.asp

The reasoning behind even taking the HCG during the cycle is to prevent natural test production from stopping and testicular atrophy.

If I were you I would run it only mid cycle for about 5 days then again at the end before you start PCT. You dont want to burn out your LH receptors. It isnt a really long cycle anyways. Just an idea.

[freakyjuicer]

This will be my third cycle. First was sus, deca , and dbol for 12 weeks. Second was test e, eq, and dbol for 12 weeks. So, one of you say to do 500IU on sat. and sun. The other one says do 250IU for week 6 and 12. Hmmm...

[BeefCakeStew]

This will be my third cycle. First was sus, deca, and dbol for 12 weeks. Second was test e, eq, and dbol for 12 weeks. So, one of you say to do 500IU on sat. and sun. The other one says do 250IU for week 6 and 12. Hmmm...

Hustla hit the nail on the head. JohnyB also recommends using hcg this way. It is enough to keep your boys up to par without desensitizing you LH.

Heard of running it the other way with larger dosed but ever sat and sun seems just about right. However there will always be tons of opinions on this one.

[Whitey]

Very informative post! I hadn't heard to not run Arimidex post cycle.

[freakyjuicer]

Is that 500IU every Saturday and another 500IU every Sunday for a total of 1000IU/week. Are you also saying that it should be done wk1-completion, and what about PCT? I was planning on 125IU 2X/wk wk1-completion, and none PCT.

[thejuiceisloose]

I read your article regarding HCG at http://www.pharmaeurope.com/HCG.asp

What would you think about the following cycle:

wks1-12 test e 750mg/wk
wks1-12 deca 600mg/wk
wks1-12 HCG 250IU/wk
wks1-4 abombs 50mg/day

The reasoning behind even taking the HCG during the cycle is to prevent natural test production from stopping and testicular atrophy. If, as the article says, 5000IU is the appropriate dosage, would 250IU even have an effect?

Thanks

P.S. Here is an article I picked up off of here in the PCT section.
It says that 250IU to 500IU/week is a good dose. Why would there be such a huge difference between the 2 articles?

You may want to run the deca 2 weeks less.. for EXAMPLE
weeks 1-10 400mg deca a week
weeks 1-12 500mg test e a week

Just my .02 cents

[BASK8KACE]

Bump.

Xxample

[BeefCakeStew]

Is that 500IU every Saturday and another 500IU every Sunday for a total of 1000IU/week. Are you also saying that it should be done wk1-completion, and what about PCT? I was planning on 125IU 2X/wk wk1-completion, and none PCT.

12 weeks isnt too long of a cycle and being in your mid 20's, your boys should bounce back without hcg with no probs. You can also consider running 4g trib/day througout instead of HCG.

However if you still considering running HCG
run HCG @ 500iu;s every Sat/Sun from wk2-12. So it would be a total of 1000iu a week, which is usually how it is recommened. However, I am pretty sure the way you suggested would work fine, especially for a short 12 weeker.

And yes, definately don't run HCG during PCT

Something to consider.
JohnyB has to says about taking HCG mid cycly and at the end only. He also disagrees with large doses of HCG. He apparently also goes against the grain but backs up his advice well.

HCG in PCT