Stop bashing Deca! and telling newbies to use Test

[Toenail Juice Z]

I found this written on another board, and i'm sure a lot of you will agree with this.

Top Reasons Why Testosterone is a Bad Choice!! (especially for NEWBIES)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This may surprise many people but test is a bad choice for almost all prospective AS users.

And in a no-surprise move, I will recommend Deca as the best anabolic out there for mass, cutting and athletic use.

Here are some well known reasons why test is inferior

1. You will lose half of your gains after a test cycle

2. Test is awful for your prostate and colon

3. Test will make your hair fall out faster than most other compounds

4. Test requires higher and higher dosages to get a decent affect (all along the side effects increase).

5. Test causes gyno faster than almost all other compounds

6. If you use anti-estrogens to protect yourself from the sides listed above, you will be taking away many of the properties that make test good for gains, so it is a lose/lose situation

The list goes on and on.

[einstein1905]

That'd be a decent post if it were targetted for a guy on a deserted island with only a vial of deca and a vial of test......
wait, no, it still wouldn't hold true there either.
All of those sides mentioned are easily controlled, and you don't "lose half of your gains" coming off of test. Using deca w/o a source of androgen is foolish and dangerous.

[Toenail Juice Z]

That'd be a decent post if it were targetted for a guy on a deserted island with only a vial of deca and a vial of test......
wait, no, it still wouldn't hold true there either.
All of those sides mentioned are easily controlled, and you don't "lose half of your gains" coming off of test. Using deca w/o a source of androgen is foolish and dangerous.

Deca is also moderately androgenic

[einstein1905]

Deca is also moderately androgenic

Moderately androgenic relative to other nonsteroids, but relative to other AAS, it's the least androgenic.
Using deca only puts your body in virtually an androgen-deprived state, by shutting down endogenous androgen production and also by providing no appreciable androgenic effects itself. It increases systemic prolactin levels greatly, and although this can be somewhat controlled with drugs (or vitamins) to reduce prolactin, androgens provide a means to counteract many of the effects caused by increased prolactin levels (libido, psychological issues due to inhibited dopamine signaling). This isn't the 80's.....we know what these drugs do now. There is no excuse to run a deca only cycle.....

[Toenail Juice Z]

Moderately androgenic relative to other nonsteroids, but relative to other AAS, it's the least androgenic.
Using deca only puts your body in virtually an androgen-deprived state, by shutting down endogenous androgen production and also by providing no appreciable androgenic effects itself. It increases systemic prolactin levels greatly, and although this can be somewhat controlled with drugs (or vitamins) to reduce prolactin, androgens provide a means to counteract many of the effects caused by increased prolactin levels (libido, psychological issues due to inhibited dopamine signaling). This isn't the 80's.....we know what these drugs do now. There is no excuse to run a deca only cycle.....

by nonsteroids what are you referring to?

Test sides are more real than Deca sides are.

A slow down of libido is rare and only caused by too much deca and no tapering. If you cycle smart then you will have the opposite effect (i.e. higher sex drive).

Progesterone gyno is also such a rare occurrence that it isn't even worth mentioning. It is only used like a scary children's story...irrational and highly unlikely to happen.

[slitsoul13]

:spudnik4: lol, way to show that british limp dik how ignorant he is.

[Toenail Juice Z]

:spudnik4: lol, way to show that british limp dik how ignorant he is.

Ass kisser. How pathetic. If you bend over, ile show you if i got a limp dick or not asshole.

[Toenail Juice Z]

For SlitSoul

Why do some people kiss moderators asses. Be proud of yourself for fcuk sake and get some self esteem. No ones god here, were just exchanging opinions.

[slitsoul13]

lol, **** you take things so seriously, im not kissing ass, but just agreeing with him, i think, and im sure most ppl on this board will agree, that a deca only cycle is retarded, thats my opinion.

[anaBROLIC]

For SlitSoul

No ones god here, were just exchanging opinions.

dont agree with the his opinion but he does have a point....

[slitsoul13]

Ass kisser. How pathetic. If you bend over, ile show you if i got a limp dick or not asshole.

lol, funny ****, even tho it was aimed at me

[Toenail Juice Z]

lol, funny ****, even tho it was aimed at me

Sorry about that, but you gotta admit, you called me a limp dick.

My manhood has been destroyed now

[slitsoul13]

lol... ya well u said a test only cycle was dumb.. and thats what im on right now! so were even.. you destroyed my self confidence! lol, j/k

[TxJuiceFreak]

a deca only cycle is just plain ridiculous, i would love to see the statistics of first time AAS users taking a test only cycle with proper PCT vs. a deca only cylce with proper PCT, and see the gains vs. each and how long it took for natural test production or "normality" if you will, to come back to regular levels. and i would like to see how much of the gains were lost. cause im pretty darn sure that test would prevail. JMO

[Lozgod]

I dont believe a needle or test is "necassary" for every cycle, but I wouldn't say Test sux either, I love test. JMO.

[einstein1905]

by nonsteroids what are you referring to?

Test sides are more real than Deca sides are.

A slow down of libido is rare and only caused by too much deca and no tapering. If you cycle smart then you will have the opposite effect (i.e. higher sex drive).

Progesterone gyno is also such a rare occurrence that it isn't even worth mentioning. It is only used like a scary children's story...irrational and highly unlikely to happen.

Tapering? I hope you're joking.

I didn't even bring up prog/prol-related gyno. The inhibitory effects of elevated prolactin in the body and on overall health are detrimental in the absence of androgens.
There is no "good" argument for a deca only cycle. there are no noncounterable test sides. Bloat and unkept gains are issues of the 80's....not anymore. if it's DHT you fear, that's an easy fix

[monstercojones]

Tapering? I hope you're joking.

its pretty funny that he threw tapering out there as his trump arguement. advocating tapering a deca only cycle really shows a tremendous amount of education on the subject of AS.

[Money Boss Hustla]

and i'm sure a lot of you will agree with this.

I don't agree at all.

[kronik]

I found this written on another board, and i'm sure a lot of you will agree with this.

Top Reasons Why Testosterone is a Bad Choice!! (especially for NEWBIES)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This may surprise many people but test is a bad choice for almost all prospective AS users.

And in a no-surprise move, I will recommend Deca as the best anabolic out there for mass, cutting and athletic use.

Here are some well known reasons why test is inferior

1. You will lose half of your gains after a test cycle

2. Test is awful for your prostate and colon

3. Test will make your hair fall out faster than most other compounds

4. Test requires higher and higher dosages to get a decent affect (all along the side effects increase).

5. Test causes gyno faster than almost all other compounds

6. If you use anti-estrogens to protect yourself from the sides listed above, you will be taking away many of the properties that make test good for gains, so it is a lose/lose situation

The list goes on and on.

What other board are you reading to be so misinformed about test and deca???

[Russ616]

I have seen cycle run w/o test but just don't agree. It's not a huge issue with anything other than tren or deca , which should always have test accompany them IMO. Tren and deca being progestins, increase prolactin to very high levels. Elevated prolactin levels can has adverse effects on neurotransmitters, in particular, dopamine, Irregularities in dopamine levels have been implicated in many psychological disorders, but primarily depression. For some not well-understood reason, test has the ability to negate/reverse this effect
There are also the libido issues and potent inhibitory effects on HPTA that the progestins alone can cause, which also can be somewhat alleviated by using test with them.

Something like deca, especially, is very anabolic and not very androgenic at all. However, using it alone shuts down endogenous test production and therefore also DHT. This leaves a person with little to no androgens in the body, which is a prime environment for estrogenic effects to make themselves felt.
MOD...

[kingofmasters]

For SlitSoul

Why do some people kiss moderators asses. Be proud of yourself for fcuk sake and get some self esteem. No ones god here, were just exchanging opinions.

We don't kiss asses; we respect each other and since Einstein has well founded morally and scientifical arguments which are also polite; we give him kudos (the fact that I agree with him 98% of the times also plays a rol )

And not only that I don't approve of Deca , I even find that it has no place in a stack either! (and that while never have used it; it just sounds so awful in theory).
Far better compounds for those goals!

And offcourse we can't stop you, you want to do a Deca Only cycle, then go ahead! we just advice! (most of the times scientifical not even as a personal opinion)... But think about it --> What do we have to gain by giving you false advice (which if it goes wrong only places yet another dark shadow on performance enhancing compounds!).

So go ahead with it, but you must know that that list is almost completely inaccurate; not only in theory but also if you look at real-life experiences of members on the board (including me) and else in the world!

Greets
Kingofmasters

[TheMudMan]

This is why research is so important........

1. You will lose half of your gains after a test cycle
This holds true with an AAS you decide to use...... If you do not run PCT to recover HPTA then yes you will losse all or most of your gains.... but this does not just hold true to test.

2. Test is awful for your prostate and colon
So is winny, fina and so many other drugs we use........ use supplements to protect yourself and you will lower your chances of having problems.

3. Test will make your hair fall out faster than most other compounds
This hold true if you are prone to MPB....... but what about EQ, Winny, and many of the other DHT derivated(sp) drugs use..... they aren't the problem
Again, there are supps and mediacations that will protect your hairline.

4. Test requires higher and higher dosages to get a decent affect (all along the side effects increase).
This is way off base...... so please post some articles clain=ming this fas=ct and don't use hear say........ Anything ran over your own natural test levels will produce gains.

5. Test causes gyno faster than almost all other compounds
I will give you this one..... gyno is more common than prgestorgen related gyno but in either case if you run anti-e's than your risk are lowere greatly.

6. If you use anti-estrogens to protect yourself from the sides listed above, you will be taking away many of the properties that make test good for gains, so it is a lose/lose situation
Not true.......... Water weight are not gains IMO..... that's all you will not gain is water weight. This is such a joke.

[Money Boss Hustla]

This is why research is so important........

1. You will lose half of your gains after a test cycle
This holds true with an AAS you decide to use...... If you do not run PCT to recover HPTA then yes you will losse all or most of your gains.... but this does not just hold true to test.

2. Test is awful for your prostate and colon
So is winny, fina and so many other drugs we use........ use supplements to protect yourself and you will lower your chances of having problems.

3. Test will make your hair fall out faster than most other compounds
This hold true if you are prone to MPB....... but what about EQ, Winny, and many of the other DHT derivated(sp) drugs use..... they aren't the problem
Again, there are supps and mediacations that will protect your hairline.

4. Test requires higher and higher dosages to get a decent affect (all along the side effects increase).
This is way off base...... so please post some articles clain=ming this fas=ct and don't use hear say........ Anything ran over your own natural test levels will produce gains.

5. Test causes gyno faster than almost all other compounds
I will give you this one..... gyno is more common than prgestorgen related gyno but in either case if you run anti-e's than your risk are lowere greatly.

6. If you use anti-estrogens to protect yourself from the sides listed above, you will be taking away many of the properties that make test good for gains, so it is a lose/lose situation
Not true.......... Water weight are not gains IMO..... that's all you will not gain is water weight. This is such a joke.

OWNED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[kingofmasters]

This is why research is so important........

1. You will lose half of your gains after a test cycle
This holds true with an AAS you decide to use...... If you do not run PCT to recover HPTA then yes you will losse all or most of your gains.... but this does not just hold true to test.

2. Test is awful for your prostate and colon
So is winny, fina and so many other drugs we use........ use supplements to protect yourself and you will lower your chances of having problems.

3. Test will make your hair fall out faster than most other compounds
This hold true if you are prone to MPB....... but what about EQ, Winny, and many of the other DHT derivated(sp) drugs use..... they aren't the problem
Again, there are supps and mediacations that will protect your hairline.

4. Test requires higher and higher dosages to get a decent affect (all along the side effects increase).
This is way off base...... so please post some articles clain=ming this fas=ct and don't use hear say........ Anything ran over your own natural test levels will produce gains.

5. Test causes gyno faster than almost all other compounds
I will give you this one..... gyno is more common than prgestorgen related gyno but in either case if you run anti-e's than your risk are lowere greatly.

6. If you use anti-estrogens to protect yourself from the sides listed above, you will be taking away many of the properties that make test good for gains, so it is a lose/lose situation
Not true.......... Water weight are not gains IMO..... that's all you will not gain is water weight. This is such a joke.

I agree with you just not with point 6 and have to ad to point 5!

Point 5:
Although Gyno is more common with test; this is easily treatble with Nolva/letrozole if discovered early, while ProgesteronGyno is far worse and doesn't give signs on time (when milk oozes out it is too late) and is only treatable with bromo or the "Morning after pill".
(Don't give me B6 crap --> This doesn't work on all people and if in a late stage doesn't help anymore)

Point 6:
It is true that estrogen has some great benefits (not just waterweight!; better glycogenmanagement, upgrading androgenreceptor, Increased IGF-levels, Better transport of Nutrients to musclecell indirectly) even when cutting out this (which is almost impossible, but the good thing is that when using something like Letrozole we leave just about enough Estrogen for the benefits) Test still is probably the most potent compound out there mg for mg (except for Trenbolone and the exotic Oxabolone and Miberolone --> Though these compounds also only reach full potental when stacked with Test).

BTW Themudman --> Great Arms, Bro!

Greets
Kingofmasters

[w_rballs]

by nonsteroids what are you referring to?

Test sides are more real than Deca sides are.

A slow down of libido is rare and only caused by too much deca and no tapering. If you cycle smart then you will have the opposite effect (i.e. higher sex drive).

Progesterone gyno is also such a rare occurrence that it isn't even worth mentioning. It is only used like a scary children's story...irrational and highly unlikely to happen.

i actuzlly know quite a few people with progesterone gyno. and guess how most of those dipwads got it... yup DECA ONLY CYCLE!!! and i have it also from fina. so no it isnt a rare occurance. a rare occurance would u be saying something intelligent

[TheMudMan]

I agree with you just not with point 6 and have to ad to point 5!

Point 5:
Although Gyno is more common with test; this is easily treatble with Nolva/letrozole if discovered early, while ProgesteronGyno is far worse and doesn't give signs on time (when milk oozes out it is too late) and is only treatable with bromo or the "Morning after pill".
(Don't give me B6 crap --> This doesn't work on all people and if in a late stage doesn't help anymore)

Point 6:
It is true that estrogen has some great benefits (not just waterweight!; better glycogenmanagement, upgrading androgenreceptor, Increased IGF-levels, Better transport of Nutrients to musclecell indirectly) even when cutting out this (which is almost impossible, but the good thing is that when using something like Letrozole we leave just about enough Estrogen for the benefits) Test still is probably the most potent compound out there mg for mg (except for Trenbolone and the exotic Oxabolone and Miberolone --> Though these compounds also only reach full potental when stacked with Test).

BTW Themudman --> Great Arms, Bro!

Greets
Kingofmasters

In 5 I said the use of anti-e's will reduce your risk of gyno...... Also, B6 is very usefull to keep prolactin at bay..... If using B6 durring your cycle this will help greatly.... Some women are given high dosages of B6 to stop the milking process that occurs with child bearing(sp).

6...... I agree estrogen has very important benifits.... and the use of anti-e's will not stop all of the test from converting to estrogen....

Thanks bro

[inheritmylife]

Test is also cheaper

I had to get something in there.

[falker]

Deca is also moderately androgenic

Yea but the ratio from anabolic to androgenic has enough variance to not be a candidate for aromitization isn't it?

[Lozgod]

GREAT ****ING READ HAHAHA. I have been waiting for a thread like this. Good info bros on both sides of the coin. However I think the test side has it in the bag. Test is the perfect balance on Andro/Anabolic , it is the base of all hormones for muscle building, and it is natures bulker.

[slamd097]

Look it just biols down to this...If you do everything your suppose to you will be fine. If you notice, everyone usually runs test and a number of other things. Why...test is the best muscle builder out there. But adding more just is that much better IF YOU PLAN RIGHT..I ran a cycle, had my gear taken, and all I could do is just run my pct...I had to stop working out due to work conflicts and a bunch of other stuff...but when I returned to the gym, Thanks to a proper PCT, I kept most of my gains I made. So in short, if you do a test or deca only cycle, no pct, no planning or anything..then yes your info holds true...

[BUYLONGTERM]

Not kissing anyones ass, I have to totally agree with Mud and Einstein on this one. I think anyone who has been on this board long enough knows these two guys are not only very well respected, but they definitely know what there talking about. So it has nothing to do with ass kissing. And just because you don't agree with them or anyone, doesn't mean you or anyone else is not respected. This is a great topic!

Peace,

BLT

[Animal Cracker]

Are you kidding?

[Duke of Earl]

So which AAS are the main culprits for progesterone gyno? Deca , tren ....any others?
I guess any DHT based AAS..... what about Eq & Primo?

[KAEW44]

well toenail juice if it makes you feel better then u should know that deca is probably the mos common used steroid by new and amateur steroid users ever!! and if you noticed not all the world comes to this forum so even if we tell a few people they should use test, it doesnt mean we will stop the deca users worldwide. So you win!!

[MrDezel]

Great read I have to say but Test came out on top. Kind of thought and knew it would, but it was good to hear some opinions on it.

[Krunchtime]

Tapering? I hope you're joking.

I didn't even bring up prog/prol-related gyno. The inhibitory effects of elevated prolactin in the body and on overall health are detrimental in the absence of androgens.
There is no "good" argument for a deca only cycle. there are no noncounterable test sides. Bloat and unkept gains are issues of the 80's....not anymore. if it's DHT you fear, that's an easy fix

Im going to stand behind einstein on this one. It means nothing that he is a mod on this board... The fact is, he is a well respected member on the board and he knows his stuff. Ive run test only cycles and never had any problems. I know many people running deca only right now and I have told them numerous times to Add some test. They were stubborn and MANY,not all, of them are paying for their stupidity. NO TEST=NO CYCLE

[groundandpoundpwr21]

Most ignorant post ever, how can something naturally found in your body be a bad choice.

I found this written on another board, and i'm sure a lot of you will agree with this.

Top Reasons Why Testosterone is a Bad Choice!! (especially for NEWBIES)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This may surprise many people but test is a bad choice for almost all prospective AS users.

And in a no-surprise move, I will recommend Deca as the best anabolic out there for mass, cutting and athletic use.

Here are some well known reasons why test is inferior

1. You will lose half of your gains after a test cycle

2. Test is awful for your prostate and colon

3. Test will make your hair fall out faster than most other compounds

4. Test requires higher and higher dosages to get a decent affect (all along the side effects increase).

5. Test causes gyno faster than almost all other compounds

6. If you use anti-estrogens to protect yourself from the sides listed above, you will be taking away many of the properties that make test good for gains, so it is a lose/lose situation

The list goes on and on.

[BUYLONGTERM]

Im going to stand behind einstein on this one. It means nothing that he is a mod on this board... The fact is, he is a well respected member on the board and he knows his stuff. Ive run test only cycles and never had any problems. I know many people running deca only right now and I have told them numerous times to Add some test. They were stubborn and MANY,not all, of them are paying for their stupidity. NO TEST=NO CYCLE

Good post bro!

[kingofmasters]

Good post bro!

Am feeling neglected here
weren't my posts good?

[SKiN]

Yours are always good but my head usually hurts after reading one...