07-14-2004, 03:52 AM #1
Enanthate. When do the strength gains and weight gains usually kick in?
Do the strength gains come before the weight gains with Test Enanthate .
At what week do you notice the strength gains, and at what week the weight gains?
07-14-2004, 03:55 AM #2
I never used it alone, so I couldn't answer that with 100% certainty. I would say probaly about 3 weeks. Thats when I really notice significant strength gains.
07-14-2004, 03:56 AM #3
hey! .. =) it varies from person to person, but most ppl say around week 4, but it took me until week 5 i think to rly see myself growing, i gained weight since day one, im in the beginning of week 7 and have gone up 14 pds, i probably gained water in the beg, but my str went up fast (probably mental at first) but my workouts are insane and i have tons of energy, on my deca only cycle i got a limp dick and got dumped by my girlfriend.... lol j/k
07-14-2004, 03:58 AM #4Originally Posted by slitsoul13
07-14-2004, 05:11 AM #5
Around the 4th or 5th week you should be seeing something. Have you started yet?
07-14-2004, 05:37 AM #6Senior Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2003
if u are going to run a test only cycle, try this:
1-4 prop 100mg eod
1-10 test enant or cyp 250mg e4d
11-12 prop 100mg eod
13-15 pct with nolva and clomid
07-15-2004, 12:52 AM #7
07-15-2004, 12:54 AM #8
07-15-2004, 01:10 AM #9Junior Member
- Join Date
- Mar 2004
Personally on test enth. i started to notice strentgh gains around week 4 and size started to come in around week 5 and 6. Your strength levels and your sex drive should be off the roof
07-15-2004, 01:44 AM #10Originally Posted by Ladies Man
07-15-2004, 08:56 AM #11
07-15-2004, 10:17 AM #12Originally Posted by Toenail Juice Z
deca and tren may be run in the same cycle. it's just usually not recommended. be sure to take precautions against elevated prolactin levels. 200 mgs everyday of b6 ed should do the trick...
07-16-2004, 12:15 AM #13Originally Posted by monstercojones
I have already stopped the tren at week 6 (I couldn't handle the rage), and i'm doing deca with test every week now. I started the test after I stopped the tren. I'm taking Nolva 10mg/ed, proviron 25mg/ed. What else would help with water retention?
Megadoses of Vitamin C and perhaps some Liquidex?
And lastly, is the amino acid L-glutamic acid, usually found in many protein supplements the same thing as Glutamine?
07-16-2004, 04:03 AM #14
Im in week 3 and my sex drive is throught the roof.. every morning, afternooon, and night.. anytime Im awake or sleeping im thinking about sex. Now this is good and all but I cant wait until week 4 and 5! Good luck bro. You will enjoy it!
07-16-2004, 06:27 AM #15Originally Posted by Krunchtime
07-16-2004, 06:41 AM #16
I would use Equipose instead of Deca , because Boldenon is synergistical with test and the both complement each other!
Also you already have a 19-nor-androgen in your cycle!
Do it like this
Week 1-14 Test Enantate 300 mg E3D
Week 1-12 Boldenon 200-250 mg E3D
Week 1-10 Trenbolone Enantate 200-250 mg E3D
Week11-16 Anavar or Winstrol (Oral) 50 mg ED
PCT week 16
Letrozole 3 weeks prior to cycle and run it all the way through to PCT
@ 1 mg ED
Protein 150 grams ED
(50 grams in the morning and 50 grams 1 hour Post work-out contaning 60/30/10 Milkprotein+Whey+Glutamine Peptides
+have aminogen in the mix with if you like the vitaminmix)
And Straight before bed 30-50 grams of 50/50 mixture of Calcium Caseinate+Milkprotein (also with aminogen and if you want vitaminmix)
Take 0,8 grams times your weight in kilos of Carbohydrates within 15 minutes
of completing your work-out (3-4 glasses of softdrink is a nice guideline!)
PCT (containing Nolva + Letrozole)
Two weeks Clen (100 mcg Clen + 5 gram Taurine)
Two weeks ECY (25 mg Ephedrine, 200 mg Cafeine, 5 mg Yohimbine, 40 mg Synthetic Guggulsterones, 75 mg Acetyl-L-carnitine all at 1fast400)
Repeat throughout cycle to PCT
so week 1,2,5,6,9,10,13,14 Clenbuterol + Taurine
week 3,4,7,8,11,12,15,16 ECY-mix
PCT 30 days of Clenbuterol (with Ketotifen) + Taurine for 30 days
(100 mcg Clen + 4 mg Ketotifen + 5 grams Taurine)
Important that Clen used in PCT is used along Ketotifen because else it will loose it's anti-catabolic and ANABOLIC purposes (YES CLEN IS ANABOLIC!!)
Last edited by kingofmasters; 07-16-2004 at 06:44 AM.
07-16-2004, 07:24 AM #17Originally Posted by kingofmasters
I'm already on the cycle btw, but thanks a lot for suggesting one for me. I will use clen towards the end and continue it after i'm off the steroids .
What is ketotifen? Can you get it over the counter from pharmacies, and what is it really used for?
I won't get letrozole, because it's rather new and have heard it isn't absolutely necessary and it's expensive.
Throughout the cycle I am using megadoses of vit C (helps with water retention) and Vitamin B6 along with a low dose multivitamin supplement.
Also Proviron Androgen at 25mg/day and Nolvadex 10mg/day throughout cycle.
As for protein, my body needs a lot calories from carbs to gain muscle, that's why I'm using a mass shake, which I drink 3 times a day which contains (per serving) around 30g Protein 500 calories from complex carbs and 1 gram of fat.
What do you think?
07-16-2004, 07:58 AM #18Originally Posted by Toenail Juice Z
In Holland it is prescription so I always get the also potent citadrizine HCL.
What it technically does is regenerate Beta2-receptors (the ones Clen binds too), to allow to extend the maximum time that Clen is Anabolic and Anti-Catabolic (without Ketotifen it is about 2 weeks and with it about 6-8 weeks)
And maximize fatloss (Clen is effective for about 6-8 weeks for fat loss, but with Ketotifen it is even more effective)
You can also buy readymade "SuperClen" (which is Clen with Ketotifen, but they usually put in too much Ketotifen which makes the user very sleepy --> One person mentioned it is positive because he took it before bed and "lost fat while sleeping").
Ketotifen also protects someones "stamina", since Clen over prolonged use makes a persons "stamina" increase.
Taurine is a must! if you use Clen
(With Taurine Clen has almost no side-effects)
Letrozole is about as expensive as Arimidex and well worth the money!
Deca isn't synergistical (meaning they maximize each others effects like ephedrine and cafeine for instance) with Test, but they do complement each other (for instance Deca increases Collagen synthesis meaning less chance of injuring yourself while on test which increases the chance, only thing is that many of the complementing effects can also come from the other
19-nor-androgen Trenbolone , also Boldenon is more effective in increasing collagen).
But I while never be a Deca or Dianabol fan!
Weightgainers are total nonsense, nutritionally speaking!
Ergogenetics teaches us for optimum state (meaning anabolic state):
Slow protein/Fast Protein/Glutamine mix (with the slow proteins as the highest concentration for individuals under 30 and the fast proteins as a majority for people over 30)
(Aminogen is an enzyme which makes the mixes easier digestible)
First Thing in the morning on an empty stomach
1 hour post work-out (most people will tell you with carbs! --> This is the old approach, this is far less effective unless using Insulin -shots)
Right before Bed only slow proteins (to prevent state of catabolism)!
15 minutes within completing of Training
0,8 grams times bodyweight in kilos of carbohydrates
At leat 8 hours sleep AT REGULAR Times (so with certain sleep pattern and sleeping while dark/night because evolutionary it is supposed to be that way!)
Ergogenetics for dieting:
Always have a Breakfast
(researches show that this has to be proportionate to keep insulin levels stable throughout the day: A traditional breakfast is best, a coke in the morning for just glucose isn't proportionate in proteins/fats/carbohydrates and thus not a breakfast!)
No eating 3 hours before regular bedtimes!
The diets by Swolecat are nonsense in my medical opinion, since nobody "off" needs that much protein!
(Other boards recommend the Chicken and Tuna approach, not only is this unhealthy,
but to quote a friend: If All I can eat while dieting is Chicken and Tuna then I want to be fat )
Don't care what anybody says! --> There are only so much ways to prepare those two and unless you screw with the diet (by adding "Sinners"-products like chocolate or high-fat cheese) then they will pretty much taste the same every day!
Last edited by kingofmasters; 07-16-2004 at 08:01 AM.
07-16-2004, 08:22 AM #19Originally Posted by kingofmasters
Yes, i'm the Tuna, Chicken, Rice eating type of guy. I try to eat as many calories as I can from complex carbs and shakes, and usually eat 4-5 meals every day, every 3 hours. I usually wake up in the middle of the night to have a high carb high protein drink also, and straight after a workout I usually consume some simple carbohydrates from beverages such as lucozade, in order to replendish the lost glycogen stores and help the body to not waste protein for energy.
I try to consume around 200grams of protein per day from non fat food and carbs as well as the mas shakes.
Why are they total nonsense (Mass Drinks). Some contain only 1g of fat per serving) and it's a very convenient source of Whey protein and calories. If I were to have plain whey, I would have to eat a ****load of carbs to get the amount of calories needed, especially when on a cycle. It even says on the deca label that a diet not rich in calories and protein will make the product useless. (well something like that).
You seem to know what your talking about though, so I should try your approach and see the difference. It seems too complicated to follow though. I like to think of bodybuilding nutrition and training as basic as possible. To sum it up : High Calories from complex Carbs, High Protein from supplements and wholefoods throughout the day and night, Essential Fatty Acids, and hard work in the gym. Are you a doctor btw
Taurine is also found in Red Bull btw.
07-16-2004, 08:40 AM #20Originally Posted by Toenail Juice Z
Just buy it from 1fast400 for 20 bucks the kilo I think...
Carbs after work-out is not too difficult 3-4 glasses of softdrink does the trick also a banana yields about 30 grams of carbs!
If you are under 30 then Whey isn't optimal for you, young bodies benefit more from Slow proteins, 1 hour after work-out! (not right after!).
So what is hard about this approach! (I think it is far easier then getting up in the night )
If you have read my protein post then you would have known that anabolics (like deca) are dangerous without enough protein, (because the body will then synthesize them from hart and immunesystem!) only androgenics (like Anavar , Primo and Winstrol are suitable for low-calorie diets...
Your body can make up for carbs but not for proteins!!
07-16-2004, 08:51 AM #21Originally Posted by kingofmasters
BTW I wanted to ask you if you know anything about inderal, because I used to use it to stop the tremors from antidepressant drugs. I have thousands of these tablets to treat my condition, as well as tricyclic antidepressants, SSRI's benzos such as valium
Can it be used with clenbuterol , or will it neutralize clens effects because it's a beta-adrenergic blocker and clenbuterol is a beta-2-symphatomimetic?
Inderal is a beta-adrenergic blocker, more commonly known as a beta-blocker. This class of anti-hypertensive medication prevents high blood pressure by reducing the body's sensitivity to certain chemicals produced by the sympathetic nervous system that cause blood vessels to contract, and blood pressure to go up. It isn't entirely clear how Inderal works to reduce vascular headaches and tremors.
This medication is mainly prescribed for effort-induced angina, controlling irregular heartbeat, high blood pressure (hypertension), prevention of heart attacks or to decrease the likelihood of a second attack, reduction of migraine headache, reduction of certain tremors (essential and action), and as a combination therapy in cancer of the adrenal glands.
Other uses include the treatment of overactive thyroid, prescription drug related headaches, control of panic attacks or physical anxiety responses, reducing symptoms of narcotic withdrawal, preventing excess abdominal fluid accumulations in cirrhosis patients, and as a combination therapy to treat serious Giardia infection.
While it may take 6-8 weeks of continuous use to see the full benefits, some progress should be noted within 10-14 days. Individuals using this therapy are advised to have regular checkups with their doctor to monitor their progress. As high blood pressure has few or no symptoms until the advanced stages, it can be difficult to tell how treatment is progressing without consulting your doctor.
This medication is most effective in treating high blood pressure when combined with a low salt diet, smoking cessation, and weight control measures, as needed.
Secondly, are the tremors caused by Clenbuterol Due to high blood pressure?
I don't usually notice these kind of effects however with clenbuterol. I notice them more with ephedrine.
Also wouldn't a muscle relaxing, antianxiety drug also counter the side effects of an ECA stack and/or clenbuterol?
And thirdly. what about using liquidex instead of Arimidex. It's much cheaper!
Please comment, advise me
Last edited by Toenail Juice Z; 07-16-2004 at 08:54 AM.
07-16-2004, 09:25 AM #22Originally Posted by Toenail Juice Z
But you're way of thinking about your body and health is real ignorant!
Beta Blockers or other hartstressrelieves SHOULDN'T be used with any kind of stimulant! (If I had known you had to take this then I would never have adviced you to take Clen or ECY).
(Beta Blockers are one of the most dangerous medicines out there to combine with another drug without notice from a professional!!
Even OTC meds always say if on Beta-Blockers advice physician!)
I wouldn't know what the tremors by Clen are cause by (Salbutamol is much nicer in that aspect).
And the fact that to correct a wrong you are willing to take yet another compound bedazzles me! (to correct the tremors you are willing to take an anti-anxiety drug and thus screwing up your Homeostasis --> Perfect balance of the body in all sorts of ways IS TRULY DANGEROUS).
Stay away from Clen, Ephedrine, Cafeine and Yohimbine!
Liquidex is tradename voor Arimidex (so they are the exact same!)
Femera is tradename voor Letrozole
07-16-2004, 09:30 AM #23Originally Posted by kingofmasters
07-16-2004, 09:33 AM #24Originally Posted by Toenail Juice Z
hope that cleared some stuff up bro.
07-16-2004, 09:34 AM #25Originally Posted by kingofmasters
07-16-2004, 09:37 AM #26Originally Posted by monstercojones
07-16-2004, 09:40 AM #27
Don't take anything as a combo (you have a nasty habit of when having sides with one drug taking another to prevent those sides and treating that another drug sides also with another compound and so on....)
You are a doctors worst nightmare!
Just take Clen with Taurine @ 5 grams every day! 2weeks on 2 weeks off!
(If you can't take the tremors then discontinue it)
Slow proteins are Eggwhite, Calcium Caseinate and my favourite Milkprotein!
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