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My current cycle is as follows.
1-12wk Primo 600mg/wk
1-12wk Prop 600mg/wk
1-12wk HGH 5iu/d
But after 4 wks of starting the cycle, I have noticed a tiny nodule under my right nipple.
Even though I was on Arimidex(.25mg/d), I got a ugly gyno.
So I decided to start taking Nolva, but here is a problem.
Since I am on HGH, it is not a good idea to take Nolva.
My question is that it is possible to reduce gyno symptom with Arimidex or Liquidex?
Please help me out!!!!
Can you not use nolva if you are taking HGH?
You're going to need Nolv bro....I understand taking high doses of Nolv while on Hgh isn't a great idea.But you're only in week 4 of HGH,so it hasn't even come close to kicking in yet.L-dex is far better at water retention,than for gyno issues.I don't like l-dex anyway.It's way over-hyped here on AR.Femera is a far better choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by kamikaze
I agree...... but I don't agree with L-dex being over hyper.... femera has more of a negative impact on lipids than l-dex does..... so IMO use l-dex until it stops doing it's job for you. JMOQuote:
Originally Posted by Da Bull
Thank you for the help.
I understand that Nolva may take care of the problem,
But I have read somewhere that Arimidex works to reduce gyno.
What do you bro think????
And do I need to stop taking Prop until gyno goes away?
No you don't need to stop the Prop........ AI's like l-dex femera..... they will help shrink the mass if there's one.... but Nolva blocks the estrogen from binding to those receptor sites....... So if gyno hasn't set in high doses of nolva is best like 80mg ED.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMudMan
What actually is better...? I have always been under the impression that L-dex is the best and how does femara (letrazole) affect lipids....? :unsure:
Here's one study on lipid profile with use of Letrozole/FemaraQuote:
Originally Posted by hatchblack
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Elisaf MS, Bairaktari ET, Nicolaides C, Kakaidi B, Tzallas CS, Katsaraki A, Pavlidis NA.
Department of Internal Medicine, Medical School, University of Ioannina, GR 451 10 Ioannina, Greece. [email protected]
Hormonal therapy plays a central role in the overall treatment of breast cancer. Aromatase inhibitors can inhibit the aromatase enzyme system resulting in a reduction of oestrogens. Letrozole is a non-steroidal aromatase inhibitor that effectively blocks aromatase activity without interfering with adrenal steroid biosynthesis. The drug can significantly reduce the levels of plasma oestrogens, which remain suppressed throughout the treatment. Data are scarce concerning the influence of these drugs on serum lipid levels. In the present study, we evaluated the effects of letrozole on the serum lipid profile in postmenopausal women with breast cancer. A total of 20 patients with breast cancer were treated with letrozole, 2.5 mg once daily. After an overnight fast, serum lipid parameters (total cholesterol, high density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol, low density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol, triglycerides, apolipoproteins A1, B and E and lipoprotein (a)) were measured before treatment and at 8 and 16 weeks afterwards. A significant increase in total cholesterol (P=0.05), LDL cholesterol (P<0.01) and apolipoprotein B levels (P=0.05) in the serum, as well as in the atherogenic risk ratios total cholesterol/HDL cholesterol (P<0.005) and LDL cholesterol/HDL cholesterol (P<0.005) was noticed after letrozole treatment. We conclude that letrozole administration in postmenopausal women with breast cancer has an unfavourable effect on the serum lipid profile.
This is from arimidex.net
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Arimidex (anastrozole) - the only aromatase inhibitor to have demonstrated efficacy and tolerability benefits vs standard comparator therapies in both early and advanced breast cancer.
Arimidex (anastrozole) a widely used, selective non-steroidal aromatase inhibitor, now approved for use in both early and advanced stage breast cancer in postmenopausal women. It is the first and only aromatase inhibitor to demonstrate superiority for both efficacy and tolerability over the benchmark therapies in both early and advanced disease.
Arimidex has pioneered new standards in the hormonal treatment of breast cancer in postmenopausal women and is currently the world’s leading aromatase inhibitor, with approximately 900,000 patient years’ experience
Arimidex is the only aromatase inhibitor proven to be superior to tamoxifen in terms of efficacy and tolerability in both early and advanced breast cancer. The efficacy and tolerability benefits of Arimidex demonstrated in the ATAC trial support its use as a first-choice endocrine therapy in postmenopausal women with early breast cancer
Arimidex is a proven first-line choice for postmenopausal women with advanced breast cancer:
Arimidex is the only aromatase inhibitor with mature survival benefit over megestrol acetate
- Significant efficacy and tolerability benefits over tamoxifen
- Tamoxifen can produce a clinical benefit following Arimidex
Arimidex is the only aromatase inhibitor to show consistent benefits over benchmark therapies in the first- and second-line treatment of advanced disease.
Arimidex is the most selective aromatase inhibitor:
- Free from significant effects on adrenal function
- No clinically significant effect on lipids
- No androgenic effects
L-dex it is then. Thanks for the quick reply and great info.
Thanks MudMan
IMO both femera and arimidex are good AI's.... but I would use arimidex (l-dex) until it doesn't do it's job as well or at all........... Just because of the problems with increased lipid profile from the use of femara.
MM..I'll respect you con post on femera and your pro l-dex post taken from thier site.The increased lipid profile that they "CLAIM" in this study is very minute as is...so I'll still have my weather beaten box and pull it out to preach femera every chance I get.I've seen far superior results using femera,as well as many,many other bros also,compared to l-dex.As for using femera for 10 weeks in a cycle to keep you dry as a bone,then switching to l-dex at pct...I see no problem in doing so.
What's so horribly wrong with running femera for a few months straight? I'm just stopping the femera I've been using for the last couple months (I'm not done the bottle). Femera and l-dex have always both worked for me. Nolva helps with the lipid profile, does it not? I threw in some nolva for the rest of my pct (which I'm extending) and to help ye ole lipid profile.
As for your gyno, just ****ing take the nolva (60mg ED) along with either femera or l-dex (at 0.5-0.75mg ED at least of either). Once the lump subsides and the other sides go away, drop the nolva and keep up with a good dose of l-dex or femera. That's what I would do. I always overreact when I feel early gyno symptoms, and every time I've been glad I did. Better safe than sorry with that crap if you ask me.
Nathan,there is nothing wrong with running femera for 10 weeks or so.It's just the fact that l-dex seems to be all high and mighty on this board..when in fact,on most other boards they shun l-dex in favor of femera.Why you ask?because it works far better.Again,you'll never change the way ppl think on this board once something has been shoved down thier throats for sooo long..whether right or wrong.L-dex has it's purpose,and is a fine drug.I'm just tired of seeing femera take the back seat on this board..just because a few preach it,doesn't mean l-dex is almighty..that you can take to the bank.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan
If you read I said both are good choices....... I don't think you will see superior results between the two but that's JMO....... Femara is stronger of the two but so are the the sides from it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Bull
Also this study was done using women not on gear which also raises cholestrol (sp) and don't take in the masive amounts of foods we take in daily.
Also, I gave you the idea of running femera and then switching to L-dex at PCT :p
There's nothing wrong with running femara for a few months and yes Nolva will keep your lipid profile in better shape than not using it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan
I agree nothing helps gyno better than Nolvadex........ nolva keeps estrogen from binding to receptor sites....... where an AI will only stop the conversion of test to estrogen..... some will get buy and will keep binding itself to those receptor sites. But I would use 80mg ED until it went away and then back to 20mg alsong with an AI.
LOL...I'm not picking on you my friend...I was making a comment in general about the board.I know you like both drugs bro.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMudMan
and I asked your thoughts on switching from prov to l-dex for pct. :p
No worries........ I like debates :p ....... but I just wanted to point out that the test's data was with women under different conditions then we are under..... but in the end Femara did raise cholesterol..... where l-dex is very little.Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Bull
Same difference :dg:
LMFAO :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMudMan
Alright...now I am confused again. Should I just get both and try them out. I am an equal opportunist
I say go with l-dex and nolva but you could also go with femara and nolva...... up to you both work wellQuote:
Originally Posted by hatchblack
LOL..a diplomat in the making. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMudMan